Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook (OGL)

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Enter a fantastic world of adventure!

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game puts you in the role of a brave adventurer fighting to survive in a world beset by magic and evil. Will you cut your way through monster-filled ruins and cities rife with political intrigue to emerge as a famous hero laden with fabulous treasure, or will you fall victim to treacherous traps and fiendish monsters in a forgotten dungeon? Your fate is yours to decide with this giant Core Rulebook that provides everything a player needs to set out on a life of adventure and excitement!

This imaginative tabletop game builds upon more than 10 years of system development and an open playtest involving more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook includes:

  • All player and Game Master rules in a single volume
  • Complete rules for fantastic player races like elves, dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and half-orcs
  • Exciting new options for character classes like fighters, wizards, rogues, clerics, and more
  • Streamlined and updated rules for feats and skills that increase options for your hero
  • A simple combat system with easy rules for grapples, bull rushes, and other special attacks
  • Spellcaster options for magic domains, familiars, bonded items, specialty schools, and more
  • Hundreds of revised, new, and updated spells and magical treasures
  • Quick-generation guidelines for nonplayer characters
  • Expanded rules for curses, diseases, and poisons
  • A completely overhauled experience system with options for slow, medium, and fast advancement
  • ... and much, much more!

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The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook is also available as:

Hardcover ISBN: 978-1-60125-150-3

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Last Updated - 5/30/2013

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5/5


What a Pathfinder truly needs...

5/5

If there is any one book to have, it is this one. It is the only Pathfinder book you will ever need to start playing, but if you're like me you'll eventually want more.

When I first learned of tabletop RPGs my attention turned to D&D even though I knew next to nothing about it, nor did I know of anyone who played it. I only knew it because it was the name everyone knew when someone said "tabletop RPG" and the answer wasn't "what is that?" I wanted to play it but I didn't know where to start. I was lost, forlorn, and alone.

Then, one fateful day, I met someone online who told me about Pathfinder. I took one look at the Core Rulebook and I never looked back, and to this day I don't regret the decision one bit. The Core Rulebook is a solid start to any aspiring tabletop gamer's adventure and is a must own not only for the abundance of useful information it provides but also for the clean presentation and the magnificent art provided by Wayne Reynolds.

In short, if you want to play Pathfinder and haven't already, pick this book up immediately. It is well worth it.


Legendary

5/5

Legendary. It’s hard to know where to begin to review this book, but that one word encapsulates it well. There’s a reason Pathfinder is thriving a decade into its existence, and it all starts here. If you don’t know anything about Pathfinder, you can think of it as a revised and improved version of a specific edition of D&D (the “3.5” edition). Its strength is the nearly infinite capacity for customization, and its weakness is that enormous customization introduces complexity. In other words, this is a “crunch heavy” instead of a “rules light” game. Trust me, it’s worth it though. This is going to be a long review because I’ve got fifteen chapters to cover in this massive, 575-page book! If you don’t have the patience to read through the whole review, the conclusion makes it clear: buy this book. With this and the Bestiary, you have years of adventure at your fingertips.

Chapter 1 is “Getting Started” (12 pages). This chapter contains a brief introduction to the game, an overview of each chapter, a glossary of common terms, an example of play (very useful if this is your first RPG ever), and the rules for generating ability scores for a character (how physically and mentally capable they are).

Chapter 2 is “Races” (11 pages). The “Core” races presented here are: Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, Half-Elves, Half-Orcs, Halflings, and Humans. As you would imagine, there are advantages and disadvantages to each race. The chapter spends a page on each race, and beyond the rules ramifications it takes care to talk about what members of that race typically look like, what their culture is like, why they often become adventurers, and how they relate to other races. It’s not an overwhelming amount of information (which is good for new players). For the most part, these races stick to fairly standard fantasy expectations.

Chapter 3 is “Classes” (57 pages). There are eleven “core classes” presented in this book: Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, Sorcerer, and Wizard. The spread of classes does an excellent job covering different play-styles and roles within a group. The power level of these classes has been significantly bumped up from D&D 3.5, and there are a lot more choices to be made within each class. This makes the classes more complex, but also more satisfying to see advance up through each level. If you’re brand-new to Pathfinder, it might be good to stay away from spell-casters like the Druid, Cleric, Sorcerer, and Wizard until you get more experience, as the sheer number of choices to be made can be overwhelming at first.

Chapter 4 is “Skills” (27 pages). Skills are something that every character has and they determine the likelihood of success in doing certain things. Want to leap from one rooftop to another? Roll an Acrobatics check. Want to figure out what spell that evil wizard just cast at you? Roll a Spellcraft check. Different classes get bonuses to using particular skills, but every character, regardless of class, can become good at something if they invest their “skill points” in a particular skill. Pathfinder has condensed the number of skills slightly from D&D 3.5, though it still has more than newer RPGs tend to have. I like the diversity and ability to specialize in discrete areas, but some think there should have been further consolidation. Each skill is described with great detail on specifically what it allows you to do and not do, which is quite helpful in avoiding rules arguments.

Chapter 5 is “Feats” (29 pages). Feats are special abilities. Every character gets to choose one feat at every odd level, and some classes and races get “bonus” feats. A feat might be something that lets you fight better in darkness (“Blindfighting”) or it might be something that makes certain spells you cast more effective (“Spell Focus”). There are several dozen feats to choose from, so this can be one of the parts of character creation that takes the longest to do. Their value, again, is that they allow for enormous customization of a character. Just because there are two Fighters in the party doesn’t mean they’ll be identical, because feats allow them to operate in very different ways!

Chapter 6 is “Equipment” (16 pages). Your character will need a weapon, maybe some armor, and some other gear like a backpack or a coil of rope. But in addition, you might wonder how expensive a night’s stay at an inn is, or how much it’ll cost to persuade a local wizard to cast a spell for you. All of the answers are in this chapter. I really appreciate that every item and service isn’t just listed on a table with a price, but in addition most receive a description, a picture, and (sometimes) additional rules to explain how it works in actual gameplay.

Chapter 7 is “Additional Rules” (13 pages). The title of this chapter isn’t particularly helpful, as the entire book consists of rules. Really, it’s a miscellany of various things about your character. First up is Alignment, which is whether your character is good, evil, or somewhere in between. A lot of other RPGs dispense with such questions, but it is “hard-coded” into Pathfinder in the sense that it’s not just a role-playing choice: many spells, magic items, and other effects change depending on a character’s alignment. Next, there’s a few pages on “Vital Statistics” like determining a character’s age, height and weight, and (most importantly) carrying capacity (also known as “encumbrance”). If your character has a low Strength score, don’t expect him or her to be able to carry a lot of gear. Then, there’s a discussion of movement speeds in various contexts (in the course of a combat encounter, for example, or for travelling great distances overland). Last, a bunch of little things are covered under the title “Exploration”: how far characters can see in different levels of light, how to determine if an object can be intentionally broken, etc. It’s a chapter that’s easy to overlook but provides answers to a lot of “little things” that might come up during a session.

Chapter 8 is “Combat” (29 pages). Combat is a major part of Pathfinder, and there’s admittedly a lot to digest in a short number of pages here. The way the chapter is laid out isn’t necessarily intuitive, and later Paizo products (like the Strategy Guide) do a much better job making combat clearer. You’ll find everything you need in this chapter, but you’ll be flipping back and forth for a while. I’ve been playing for years and I still refer to it occasionally.

Chapter 9 is “Magic” (19 pages). This chapter discusses different categories of spells, how characters learn them, and how to read a spell entry in the next chapter. It’s a chapter that’s easy to skip over at first, but is actually pretty important once a campaign gets serious.

Chapter 10 is “Spells” (156 pages). You read that right: about a quarter of the book consists of an alphabetical list and description of several hundred different spells! The spells have been cleaned up and improved from D&D 3.5 for better gameplay, but what hasn’t changed is that magic still rules. If pure power is what you want, play a true spell-caster and you’ll find it.

Chapter 11 is “Prestige Classes” (23 pages). Prestige Classes are special classes that characters can eventually take, well into their adventuring careers, if they meet certain prerequisites. This book has ten of them: Arcane Archer, Arcane Trickster, Assassin, Dragon Disciple, Duelist, Eldritch Knight, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, Pathfinder Chronicler, and Shadowdancer. For the most part, and until very recent, Pathfinder hasn’t been a game where prestige classes thrive. Apart from some specific flavour reasons, a character would usually be better off simply continuing in their base class rather than taking levels in a prestige class.

Chapter 12 is “Gamemastering” (15 pages). As its title indicates, this chapter helps the person running a game (the “Gamemaster” or “GM”) prepare an adventure, referee the rules, deal with common problems at the table, etc. It’s okay for what it is, but I’ve seen better resources to help new GMs figure out what they’re doing.

Chapter 13 is “Environment” (39 pages). This chapter contains a lot of little things to help make the setting interesting. It contains rules on weather, travelling through the wilderness, dealing with traps, and so forth. It’s primarily for the GM too and shouldn’t be a priority to master until more fundamental rules are digested.

Chapter 14 is “Creating NPCs” (11 pages). This chapter gives rules for creating background (non-player) characters by using “NPC classes” like a Commoner. I have to admit I never use this chapter, as I just rely on NPC stat blocks already generated in other Pathfinder products.

Chapter 15 is “Magic Items” (101 pages). Your adventurer is going to want some cool magic gear, and this chapter explains what it does, how much it costs, and how it’s made. It’s pretty extensive and detailed.

Last up, there are appendices summarizing “Special Abilities”, “Conditions” (status effects a character might be under), “Inspiring Reading”, and “Game Aids” (other products you can purchase).
The Core Rulebook is a hefty tome for an RPG book. For players coming from D&D 3.5, it’s basically a combination of the Player’s Handbook and the Dungeon Master’s Guide in a single volume, but refined and improved. The book is, with the single exception of the deities, completely “setting neutral” (that is, it’s suitable for play in any campaign world or a homemade setting). There’s some excellent artwork taken from other Paizo products mixed in with some artwork that’s more pedestrian. Still, the production quality overall is fantastic. I would normally go into more detail, but there are hard word counts on these reviews. So I’ll sum up by saying: this is the one book you won’t leave home without, and it’s worth every penny.

Special Note: The Core Rulebook was recently released in a smaller softcover. The interior is exactly the same as the sixth printing of the hardcover, but it’s lighter and easier to carry. I’ve been using it for a few months now, and I’m quite happy with the font size, reduced price, durability, and ease of use.


Pathfinder's Heart

5/5

This book is at the heart of all Pathfinder games. It is great and can be picked up regularly cheap with sales all over. (Humble Bundle 1$) I myself have a PDF but plan to pickup a hardcopy one day. Either one will do the trick and is always good to keep handy. I like the PDF because you can do keyword searches. Even if you don't ever use it. The cover art is pretty awesome.


A Fresh Start

5/5

After years of seeing the Pathfinder rule books on the shelves of my FLGS, I took the plunge in December of 2012. I bought the Core Rulebook and began skimming it immediately. My first discovery was the character creation rules. They were fun! Characters were cool in a way that I hadn't seen in previous editions of the world's oldest role-playing game. Within three months, I was up and running my first Pathfinder adventure. That was three years ago and I have no regrets getting involved with the Pathfinder system.


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Scarab Sages

Maghelm wrote:
That's a significant addition. Anyone have thoughts on what might be included?

Prestige Classes for sure. Spells that were not included in Beta for space reasons. Some more DM tools. And other stuff that escapes me right now.


The Red Death wrote:
Maghelm wrote:
That's a significant addition. Anyone have thoughts on what might be included?
Prestige Classes for sure. Spells that were not included in Beta for space reasons. Some more DM tools. And other stuff that escapes me right now.

Thanks, Death. I completely spaced on prestige classes.


Stegger wrote:
420 pages!!??! WOW

Now it's 560!


I totally agree this seems like the way to go. Forget 4th edition make mine Pathfinder.

Liberty's Edge

I am playing with the beta version softback now. So far it has been well received by my group and we plan to stay with Pathfinder when this hardcover is released. I do hope the cover art will be new and exciting stuff. The only other art I would like to see replaced is the racial comparison chart. Those low polygon count characters in their underwear make me think of Nintendo 64 graphics.


Vic Wertz wrote:
I believe that there will be ways that some people will qualify for a free PDF, but I don't think it's concrete yet.

Any news on how people can get the hardcopy with a free PDF?

Dark Archive

If I pre-order my copy now, do I get a free PDF?

Sovereign Court

There's been talk of a rules supplement sub. Perhaps that'll get the free pdf?

Liberty's Edge

"It's less expensive than the 3.5 core rulebooks it replaces"

My problem with this statement is that for people who already own the 3.5 core rulebooks its is an additional $49.99 to spend, as it has become apparent that the rules have changed enough that you won't be able to play in a PF RPG game using the 3.5 core books.

I see Pathfinder RPG as just a d20 fantasy system now, something to use to play in the Golarion setting and required to play in Season 1+ of the Pathfinder Society organised play campaign.

So to me the comparison would be with the likes of Conan 2nd Edition ($39.99) and FantasyCraft ($39.95).

Still it does seem PF RPG will be giving us a lot of content for the money (but that content isn't as valuable to me as it is so similar to what I already own) and is cheaper than the three D&D4e core books.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Not having either of your examples, I have to ask...

  • How plug and play are Conan and Fantasy craft to WOTC supliments? I can bring BoNS into a Pathfinder game pretty seamlessly for example, and I'm looking forward to mixing Dr. Nardi's Atlans with the Azlanti for binder goodness in my home games (especially since VoPM has teh seven deadly sins as bindable aspects)

  • Are their respective publishers going to continue to support those lines? Counting freebies, I have 19 modules sitting on my harddrive and bookshelves. That's not including Pathfinder Adventure Paths, or Pathfinder Society scenarios. And they're still coming (fairly) reliably, once a month.

  • Is there a 'Living' Conan? I just ran my first 'real' Pathfinder Society game last night (as opposed to my bi-weekly game with friends and their family) and had a blast. While I won't get to play until December at the earliest (by the time the Armory runs Frozen Fingers, I'll already have run it for the home group) the fact that I can take my rogue anywhere, and game with new people is a hoot.


  • Just can't wait to play 3.5 in a setting rivalling my favourite world which was Forgotten Realms!

    Liberty's Edge

    Matthew Morris wrote:

    Not having either of your examples, I have to ask...

  • How plug and play are Conan and Fantasy craft to WOTC supliments?
  • I don't have either of those products either, so they are theoretically for me alternatives that may compete with Pathfinder for my money (along with D&D4e).

    However, to be clear my statements above, were in relation to my perspective on the Pathfinder RPG, and so whilst I don't imagine either Conan or FantasyCraft are particularly plug & play with WOTC suppliments, I have come to the opinion that Pathfinder RPG is not compatible enough for me to bother trying to plug & play either. If I want to use WOTC supplements I will use D&D3.5.

    I recognise that yourself & others will feel differently, but then if you & others have WOTC supplements to plug & play with I imagien you also already own the 3.5 core books, so my point about PF RPG being an additional cost still stands.

    Matthew Morris wrote:
  • Are their respective publishers going to continue to support those lines?
  • I have no idea about FantasyCraft, but Conan already has absolutely tons of supplements and new stuff coming out regularly. I almost bought into the game when a mate became enthused about thr line and bought a load of stuff - however since then he has become enthused about Pathfinder and is running that instead :)

    Matthew Morris wrote:
  • Is there a 'Living' Conan?
  • No

    Matthew Morris wrote:
    I just ran my first 'real' Pathfinder Society game last night (as opposed to my bi-weekly game with friends and their family) and had a blast.

    This, along with the fact that a GM in my weekly group is and will be running Pathfinder, is the main reason I am considering buying the Pathfinder RPG. I do like living campaigns and have even bought the first PFS scenario to run.

    If I pick up Pathfinder RPG and get comfortable enough with it I may continue to be a GM in Season 1+, otherwise I may drop to just playing it, or even drop out and look elsewhere for a 3.5 living game (such as Living Arcanis).

    Although I do now own the D&D 4e PHB (and am enjoying what I read) I am not a fan of the Forgotten Realms so that living campaign is not as appealing. Mind you, if as a player I can't find enough PFS games and I really want a living campaign I may decide to bite the bullet and go LFR.

    Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

    Wolf Munroe wrote:
    Vic Wertz wrote:
    I believe that there will be ways that some people will qualify for a free PDF, but I don't think it's concrete yet.
    Any news on how people can get the hardcopy with a free PDF?

    It'll be a while—probably a few months—before we have details on that.

    Paizo Employee CEO

    Tom Green wrote:
    I am playing with the beta version softback now. So far it has been well received by my group and we plan to stay with Pathfinder when this hardcover is released. I do hope the cover art will be new and exciting stuff. The only other art I would like to see replaced is the racial comparison chart. Those low polygon count characters in their underwear make me think of Nintendo 64 graphics.

    There will be a new Wayne Reynolds cover for the RPG hardcover. The finished art hit our offices last week and will be unveiled sometime in the future. As for the racial comparison chart, that has been on the new art list for quite some time.

    -Lisa

    Dark Archive

    Lisa Stevens wrote:

    There will be a new Wayne Reynolds cover for the RPG hardcover. The finished art hit our offices last week and will be unveiled sometime in the future. As for the racial comparison chart, that has been on the new art list for quite some time.

    -Lisa

    Thank you.

    RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

    Lisa Stevens wrote:

    As for the racial comparison chart, that has been on the new art list for quite some time.

    -Lisa

    Might I recommend getting Hugo Solis aka. Butterfrog to do it?

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

    I have been using the Beta book for a while now and dearly wish it had an index. Please include a good index in the final hardcopy, for a book like that it is invaluable. I know compiling a good index for a book of that length is a very difficult and costly undertaking, but it would really enhance its usefulness.

    BTW, I hated the index in the 3.5 PHB. IMO, it was the worst part of the book.

    Liberty's Edge

    What we also need is a PF Dungeonm Master Guide. That way it makes the game unique yet also allowing those who only like 3.5. to use it also.

    Liberty's Edge

    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook Subscriber
    memorax wrote:
    What we also need is a PF Dungeonm Master Guide. That way it makes the game unique yet also allowing those who only like 3.5. to use it also.

    The Core Rulebook is intended to replace both the Players Handbook and the DMG.

    Liberty's Edge

    Thanks for the information PW. It makes sense too. Why have two seperate books that really complement each other be seperate. I could understand for a game such as Gurps. Never did understand that about D&D.

    Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

    Rimrock wrote:

    I have been using the Beta book for a while now and dearly wish it had an index. Please include a good index in the final hardcopy, for a book like that it is invaluable. I know compiling a good index for a book of that length is a very difficult and costly undertaking, but it would really enhance its usefulness.

    BTW, I hated the index in the 3.5 PHB. IMO, it was the worst part of the book.

    The finished RPG will have an index.


    Not cheap, but cheaper than upgrading to 4.0

    Paizo may want to make clear that this serves as both the PG and DMG else the many will assume that the Core book is only half of a pair.


    Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Ross Byers wrote:
    Lisa Stevens wrote:

    As for the racial comparison chart, that has been on the new art list for quite some time.

    -Lisa

    Might I recommend getting Hugo Solis aka. Butterfrog to do it?

    I would like to second this. Hugo's art is fantastic.

    Liberty's Edge

    Vic Wertz wrote:
    Ross Byers wrote:
    Is there any news regarding this being on the Chronicles subscription and/or free PDFs with purchase?
    It definitely will NOT be part of the Chronicles subscription. We still have a year or so to figure out the answer to the PDF question....

    oh good thing i looked for this, i was actually going to ask this :P

    because i want my big book, but the PDF is definitively quite useful, so with the Pathfinder Bestiary

    Liberty's Edge

    Jam412 wrote:
    Ross Byers wrote:
    Lisa Stevens wrote:

    As for the racial comparison chart, that has been on the new art list for quite some time.

    -Lisa

    Might I recommend getting Hugo Solis aka. Butterfrog to do it?
    I would like to second this. Hugo's art is fantastic.

    i agree on this matter

    i think people in Paizo have seen too how well he draws

    Liberty's Edge

    JZ wrote:

    Not cheap, but cheaper than upgrading to 4.0

    Unless you are just a player and don't need or want all the DM information.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber

    Who is Hugo Solis and where might I have seen his art? I tried Googling but came up with a musician and his band, not a graphic artist.

    Scarab Sages

    Davelozzi wrote:
    Who is Hugo Solis and where might I have seen his art? I tried Googling but came up with a musician and his band, not a graphic artist.

    Here's where he draws commissions and Here's his deviantART page and here's his profile here

    Liberty's Edge

    Davelozzi wrote:
    Who is Hugo Solis and where might I have seen his art? I tried Googling but came up with a musician and his band, not a graphic artist.

    one of ours: Hugo Solis and other Paizonians!

    edit: ninjaed-by Kessu!

    Scarab Sages

    Montalve wrote:


    edit: ninjaed-by Kessu!

    HA! You know, I think I'm going to keep track of the times I've ninja'd someone starting with this one.

    Also, be sure to check out the other Paizo artists while you're on DA Davelozzi. There's a lot of great talent there, though I think it's generally agreed that Hugo's the best of us.

    Liberty's Edge

    meh Kessu :P (lol not always being the first is good :P)

    there is also another thead monsters drawing a lot smaller but with interesting things

    also there is the unofficial Paizonia! Comic Strip (yeah they still haven't decided name, but i like Paizonia!


    i like pathfinder, but the differences between it and WoTC's 3.5 are so subtle that i end up disappointed when so many obviously broken WoTC 3.5 mechanics issues aren't addressed at all.. so why reprint 99% the same content under a new design? it seems like a missed opportunity to make the game better. can anyone give me a good reason to see things differently?


    560 pages .... .my leguminous teeth are chattering in anticipation!

    Liberty's Edge

    shmeck wrote:
    i like pathfinder, but the differences between it and WoTC's 3.5 are so subtle that i end up disappointed when so many obviously broken WoTC 3.5 mechanics issues aren't addressed at all.. so why reprint 99% the same content under a new design? it seems like a missed opportunity to make the game better. can anyone give me a good reason to see things differently?

    it is still not finished... and actually most of the dissilusiones are in the range of "you are changin too much 3.5 so i don't like Pathfinder"

    i agree many issues are not solved with PF (which i won't repeat here... i try to not whine in public :P) but many other are being solved

    Fighter is a better and round class
    skills in general work better and is less confusing to make high level characters or characters at all
    races and classes are certianly stronger, but many of the last classes & races brought by WotC and3rd party editorials are quite powerful, so the original ones were not atractive or were suboptimal, more people organizing their character around a tight evolution so they will beable to take one or to her prestigue class, single classes have beenmade more attractive.

    Mi main complains with 3.5 is "planned obsolescence"

    Edit: sight and i think i did whine after all

    if you are at certian level and if you don't have certain quantity or type of magic items your character in general is useless, so characters become Christmas trees walking syndromes... this is a rule that i dislike, and i think it happens for 2 reasons how monsters are created.. and 3.5 nerfing of magic, as much of the magic duration and effects are the same this issue is not being solved by the time being, we will see if it is.

    I myself i am in love with Paizo's quality and integral work, many of their changes are excellent... and for the last issue and another i have (half the classes having 2 skill points + int mod, which limits them, while cripples the sorcerer and fighter making them pretty of not a lot of use outside their areas specialization [casting spells & fighting] and i would prefer them having more opportunities to help the team and have greater circunstances to roleplay by not forcing them into not being able to do anything but their role) well in duetime i solve them with houserules... which we all do.

    anyway i only need to know if another friend will ask a physical copy to preorder this and the PF beastiary or i just preorder mine and heask for the PDF

    shmeck, i hope i did any sense


    alleynbard wrote:
    JZ wrote:

    Not cheap, but cheaper than upgrading to 4.0

    Unless you are just a player and don't need or want all the DM information.

    even players need access to at least some in the DMG, point buy systems and character creation was in the DMG, not to mention the magical items listing. the amount of info in the DMG that is pertinent to DMs only is actually quite small. nearly every player in my group has a DMG as well as PHB. only the two newest players do not


    Montalve wrote:
    if you are at certian level and if you don't have certain quantity or type of magic items your character in general is useless, so characters become Christmas trees

    this is also my main gripe with 3.5, and it is not addressed in PF. also, tracking spell durations (and math in general) becomes incredibly tedious above 9th level, especially for the DM. i also hate to whine, but the big issues don't seem to be addressed in the PF beta. i was really hoping they would be.

    Liberty's Edge

    shmeck wrote:
    Montalve wrote:
    if you are at certian level and if you don't have certain quantity or type of magic items your character in general is useless, so characters become Christmas trees
    this is also my main gripe with 3.5, and it is not addressed in PF. also, tracking spell durations (and math in general) becomes incredibly tedious above 9th level, especially for the DM. i also hate to whine, but the big issues don't seem to be addressed in the PF beta. i was really hoping they would be.

    well we still don't arrive to spells... we might have something to say about it inthe meant time, half of this i solve going with 3.0 magic, not perfect but works decently

    anyway i already preordered my copy and the bestiary, mine and another for a friend... so i am in...


    Very disappointed.

    When I first heard that Paizo decided to be the successor of the mantle of 3.5, I exclaimed in excitement.
    But on reading the beta version, I am sorely disappointed.
    It's just another unsorted/pointless gigantic set of house-rule.
    And you guys seem to miss the glaring weaknesses of 3.5 mechanisms and failed to address/correct them, just adding even more complexity to the already headbangingly complex 3.5 ruleset.

    1. 3.0/3.5 had a serious balance & fun factor issue between caster vs melee(including archer).
    While casters can cast whole lot of astounding, powerful and spectacular spells of different kinds, melee character can do nothing but dealing damage.

    Most of your new rules still focus on dealing damage(well indirectly, but consequently). Come on, they don't need more damage. It's already over the top!(heck, melee damage should be nerfed) It's diversity and functionality that they achingly need.

    To correct this, you guys have to introduce a whole new system like Tome of Battle, or new feats that breach the limit of the conventional feat system(perhaps you should dump or revamp most of the old feats).

    2. 3.0/3.5 had a skill redunduncy and unfair distribution of skills(and skill points) among classes.
    Some of redunduncy problem is resolved, but it's still there.
    Reduce the number of skills. You can.

    And the unfair distribution is untouched.
    Pathfinder fighter in the social interaction is not much better than 3.5 fighter in social interaction.

    3. Too complex mechanisms and rules.
    Trip, Grapple, Turn Undead, Feint, and ect.
    They are way to complicated and become useless, pointless or tedius way too soon.

    I wish my comment could be of help. I really wish.

    Liberty's Edge

    Bopple wrote:
    I wish my comment could be of help. I really wish.

    have you tried participating in the playtesting forums?

    somethings get adressed, somethings not

    things are seen by every people in different lights, please check the developers forums, there are a few changes that James and Jason and the rest have put for us

    but there is a point i agree with you: the Fighter should be a person, not just a damagedealer

    Liberty's Edge

    Michael Miller 36 wrote:
    alleynbard wrote:
    JZ wrote:

    Not cheap, but cheaper than upgrading to 4.0

    Unless you are just a player and don't need or want all the DM information.
    even players need access to at least some in the DMG, point buy systems and character creation was in the DMG, not to mention the magical items listing. the amount of info in the DMG that is pertinent to DMs only is actually quite small. nearly every player in my group has a DMG as well as PHB. only the two newest players do not

    That's nice for you. Since we are discussing anecdotes, let me tell you my own. My players often do not buy nor need the DMG. In the 20 years I have GMed (through 3 editions/not including OD&D), even with my current group of 12, only three players have ever purchased a DMG. If they desperately need something they borrow mine at the table. I have never restricted the purchase of the book. They simply have never found a need to buy it. It should be noted my group is rather diverse in its commitment to the game and its family/economic spectrum. Therefore, being a rather active DM, I often provide the information for them via handouts or simple repetition from the book. Everything else comes out on a "need to know" basis or isn't needed at all. I hardly think I am alone in that. I also think I am hardly alone in having a group that balks at a $50 price tag. It practically begs for my players to purchase this book on ebay instead of through Paizo or at the FLGS. If they even want to purchase it at all, since no matter what price they purchase it at, some of them will see it as wasted money.

    Don't get me wrong, I am buying the book. But this is a much harder sell for some of my players.

    Liberty's Edge

    alleynbard wrote:

    That's nice for you. Since we are discussing anecdotes, let me tell you my own. My players often do not buy nor need the DMG. In the 20 years I have GMed (through 3 editions/not including OD&D), even with my current group of 12, only three players have ever purchased a DMG. If they desperately need something they borrow mine at the table. I have never restricted the purchase of the book. They simply have never found a need to buy it. It should be noted my group is rather diverse in its commitment to the game and its family/economic spectrum. Therefore, being a rather active DM, I often provide the information for them via handouts or simple repetition from the book. Everything else comes out on a "need to know" basis or isn't needed at all. I hardly think I am alone in that. I also think I am hardly alone in having a group that balks at a $50 price tag. It practically begs for my players to purchase this book on ebay instead of through Paizo or at the FLGS. If they even want to purchase it at all, since no matter what price they purchase it at, some of them will see it as wasted money.

    Don't get me wrong, I am buying the book. But this is a much harder sell for some of my players.

    i agree Alleynbard in that Pathfinder is too big a book, i also usually provided what was needed on my gaming table, and sure not everyplayer even gets the player's handbook

    but at least for me paying 60 dlls for 2 books plus shipping for both... its lots more expensive than paying 50 + shipping for one

    also i have learned to love all encompasing rulebooks like Arcana Evolved and A Game of Thrones RPGs, with a single book i have everything i need to play

    also it would be rather complciated and expensive now turn a whole book into 2 for Paizo

    i am sure most of us understand your tables problems

    my recommendation? if all the price will fall over you, buy the main book for yourself, you have also 12 players if they don't want or need to buy such a big book ask 10 books from each of them (10 bucks they can spare) that makes 120 dlls... more than enought to get 2 extra books for your table that anyone of them could borrow, or that can be passed in and out of the game table

    economy right now is not ready for big expenditures... but if your group of players is tight i don't see the problem of this

    just for god's sake check who has the book if you move out of town! lol that is how i lost Oriental Adventures (yes we bought in group a feek books, in the end we each took one, snif mine was Oriental Adventures :P)


    [quote ]i agree Alleynbard in that Pathfinder is too big a book, i also usually provided what was needed on my gaming table, and sure not every player even gets the player's handbook

    I would tend to disagree. As a game master I find it frustrating to have to jump back and forth between two books to find certain rules. Rarely have I had any player buy their own book, they usually use mine. When a player does buy his own books they tend to move towards wanting to DM their own game as well.

    I'm sure each of our own experiences are different, but I'm quite happy to see the whole game system in one book and the monsters in another.

    I would like to add that my first impression (and continuing impression) of Pathfinder is that it's vastly more readable than the 3.5 books. As I use the system I find very minor things that I would like changed, but overall it's a much easier system to use and it's much easier to understand (even though the beta doesn't have an index). I enjoyed it enough to download the free PDF and then buy the softcover.

    As with everything in this game, the one book vs. two books thing is a balance. I'm happy with the single book concept and I'm very happy that we have a new and well supported 3.5 gaming system rather than having to move to the 4e system.

    Liberty's Edge

    Greg Brouelette wrote:

    I'm sure each of our own experiences are different, but I'm quite happy to see the whole game system in one book and the monsters in another.

    I would like to add that my first impression (and continuing impression) of Pathfinder is that it's vastly more readable than the 3.5 books. As I use the system I find very minor things that I would like changed, but overall it's a much easier system to use and it's much easier to understand (even though the beta doesn't have an index). I enjoyed it enough to download the free PDF and then buy the softcover.

    As with everything in this game, the one book vs. two books thing is a balance. I'm happy with the single book concept and I'm very happy that we have a new and well supported 3.5 gaming system rather than having to move to the 4e system.

    in this 3 points i agree

    i prefer to have everything tightly packed, lets time of search :D

    i tried to get my own pathfinder RPG Beta but it went out of stock too soon :P

    now i wait for the Final Product :D

    Liberty's Edge

    My gaming group and myself have enjoyed the 3.5 system since it came out. Sure a few things were messed up, but we fixed those with house rules and enjoyed the system. 4.0 was far too different and we didn't enjoy it. We planned on sticking with 3.5 (we have enough stuff to use for the next handful of year anyway) and the Pathfinder Game was an opportunity to improve on it. We were not looking for massive widespread changes, or that defeats the purpose. Just enough to fix old problems and make it fun learning some of the changes. Paizo have done this in our opinion. We bought, and downloaded, the BETA rules and my players and I are happy with it. There are a couple of outstanding items, but nothing serious. I am looking forward to the final printing and each of our players has committed to purchasing the book. We are also very happy with the new setting and the support material. It is a win-win for us. We tend not to get overly worked up about rules and more about having a fun gaming experience.

    So Paizo, work out them final issues and send it to the printer!

    Dark Archive

    Will the weight of the book be over 4 pounds? :-)


    Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
    Tom Green wrote:
    I do hope the cover art will be new and exciting stuff. The only other art I would like to see replaced is the racial comparison chart. Those low polygon count characters in their underwear make me think of Nintendo 64 graphics.

    I know this is something of a delayed blast response, but I like the artist who did the current race-chart. His/her stuff has a just-slightly-abstract look to it that I find expressive. And as I recall, he/she did the artwork for Bruthazmus (one of my favorite bits of Pathfinder art,) in Burnt Offerings, which I found much more bogeyman creepy (surreal, like a child's iconic imagining of a hungry, shaggy monster under the bed,) than the tiny-head bruisers in Classic Monsters Revisited.

    Liberty's Edge

    Absinth wrote:
    Will the weight of the book be over 4 pounds? :-)

    i believe it was mentioned it is above 5 pounds

    Liberty's Edge

    Drakli wrote:
    Tom Green wrote:
    I do hope the cover art will be new and exciting stuff. The only other art I would like to see replaced is the racial comparison chart. Those low polygon count characters in their underwear make me think of Nintendo 64 graphics.

    I know this is something of a delayed blast response, but I like the artist who did the current race-chart. His/her stuff has a just-slightly-abstract look to it that I find expressive. And as I recall, he/she did the artwork for Bruthazmus (one of my favorite bits of Pathfinder art,) in Burnt Offerings, which I found much more bogeyman creepy (surreal, like a child's iconic imagining of a hungry, shaggy monster under the bed,) than the tiny-head bruisers in Classic Monsters Revisited.

    i agree

    but if they are changing it... we hope its Hugo :)

    Scarab Sages

    Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

    Guess I will weigh in on the whole one book vs two book debate. I do not really have a preference but have no problem with one book. I actually do plan to buy several copies for my groups so they can use them at home.

    For my use I found with BETA that I printed it and put it in a tabbed notebook. I love this option and doubt that I will even use the hardcover myself (although it will be on my shelf and at the table of course. I also like the PDF to search for something. I get that at times things are hard to find in the BETA rules and when that happens I just bring up the PDF and do a search. Only compaint about that is I was preparing for the final encounter of Rise of the Runelords and found that the spell names were not searchable. It was a pain because I cut and pasted all the spells that the BBEG has into a separate document and made a separate notebook for him so when the encounter goes down I have everthing I need in one place and do not have to look up spells.

    I also wrote out a plan of how I would like those spells to be used so i will have strategized in advance for the climax of over a year of gaming and I hope to run this encounter well for our heroes. Right now I am convinced that we will have a near TPK but that is before the group pulls out Bigby's Interposing Wrench and throws it in the works.


    Beta hardcopy is amazing...

    Playtesting is sublime...

    Roll on the release!

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