I have trouble taking the advice of the one person who wants nothing to do with the rest of us, and has gone off to take a bath...
Says the guy who set off a living bomb that killed half his house's leadership and crippled the rest... ;)
Hey, if you're going to take over a house, is there a better way to do it? :P
I tried to invite you to be our new archmage, but nooo, you wanted pretty princess bath time...
Which btw, is totally something a soft surface elf would do :P
I take it getting yourself blown up was part of it.
Also no, a surface elf would have stood by you despite the targets on your back. A drow with no stake in things would have done as he did.
Anyways Vicalan didn't betray you to the Vandree for personal gain. As well as got a contact network out of his actions. Already he is both your best bet for a mage that you can count on and someone with more then just themselves to bring to the table. Your welcome. :P
He should get a sign on bonus. He'll take the archmage spot and his pick of personal chambers. Your not stuffing him into some closet.
Depending on the actual amount of usable survivors from your House, would lead you to a decision.
I vote for mercenary band to challenge Jaraxle's...lol.
Any explosion you can walk away from...
And, no, I'm pretty sure surface elves take luxurious baths all the time. Probably using scented, flowery oils.
As for the options we have...
IC, Vantrag would resent the idea of becoming a company, but only because she sees it as a step down and prizes being a noble (even a lesser noble). She's trying to save her mother & sister mostly because she really doesn't want to be matron (I believe house matrons are required to be priestesses of Lolth anyways -- so it wouldn't work out very well for her).
OOC, I actually kind of like that idea, and Vantrag would get used to it eventually. After all if we're a company, well, the daughter of a noble family isn't supposed to be doing alchemical experiments but it's totally acceptable and reasonable behavior for someone working as part of a merchant house :)
If we break off and cease to be a regular noble house (for whatever reason), my main concern is wanting to not be in charge, at least not visibly. I want to be a behind-the-scenes kind of operator. I mean, that's what the character wants in-universe but that's also what I imagined and wanted for the character when I was creating her.
Companies can be run by an individual, council, or just have a figure head with others holding control or areas of control. Outside a house no one follows the females are in charge because of gender and/or status rules. Mostly because it's not practical and underlings that are more powerful or cunning will kill you if you don't live up to your position. Something normally restrained to females in a position to directly advance with in a house.
Jarlaxle and Bregan D'aerthe are a good example. Jarlaxle held the leadership position at the start but often gave that position over to lieutenants at times and when they grew to large and widespread for any one person to handle he gave his lieutenants their own regions to control while having little to do with him or the others in it's operation.
Saeras, House Vandree will be destroyed to a man so to speak. When the council destroys a house as an example of failure. They don't play around, like only a small patch of melted stone is all that is left of where House Vandree used to be type s***. You won't have time or risk being killed by the house and/or the council. x)
Silly mage-ling. All you are saying is "House Vandree has a strong incentive to accept my offer".
Besides, unless the historical examples are all messed up, a council declaration of eradication is more like a crusade in nature then a giant red button so the mobilization phase leaves some wiggle room for underhanded deals ...
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But Nathaniel brings up a good point. There *might* be more of our house that lives. At the very least house Kewadin might have some off-location holdings or cashes left.
So I personally would prefer to try and get a better grasp of our situation before we decide where to throw ourselves.
And since stasis magic is obviously not available for cheap I'd suggest we simply cut the senior two's throats and throw a pair of Gentle Repose on them (or even Restore Corpse for that really budget option!). Them not dying to poison makes the resurrection so much easier later and this way we don't have to worry about that looming deadline at least!
If you want to undermine the authority of the council and interfere in their affairs. Go for it. Their is a reason a doomed house does not simply scatter when they have access to magic and methods of escape when they get told their going down. I don't know of any survivors (would actually find that a fun fact if their was one) of any house that was so doomed by the council in fact. Go on and join that stain on the wall, that's just for wasting their time. It wasn't even for offending them. :)
Why would we resurrect them? By the time we have access or funds for that, why would we need them? Assuming their even allowed to return, Lolth does not reward failure or give second chances often. Assuming no one captures their souls to prevent that sort of thing.
Im just a commoner, and well not being murdered at the whims of an angry preistess inside a house cause she was having a bad day is just fine with me. Of course offending a priestess outside the walls of a house is still a death sentence ...inside they might just punish you really really hard if you are useful. Interesting debates really. I will say your problem with 'removing' the matron and elder daughter might be that 2 of their defenders seem pretty devoted to them...
That darn overprotective drawback...lol.
Although, if Nate was persuaded to transfer his protection....
@Vicalan - I don't think I have ever seen anything that indicates that the targeted house does not attempt to scatter (feel free to point me in that direction otherwise!). It's just that scattering is hard when you are surrounded by a really s*@+ty and dangerous place (underdark) and have a weird refusal to use proper magic (really, plane shift isn't that fancy but no-one seems to care. Nor teleport or passwall or burrow or that crap nearly enough!).
And if the council truly bothered/could make sure no-one escapes and/or hunt down all escapees shouldn't a certain utter disgrace to our noble people popular ranger be more then a little dead by now :P?
@Murder-raise - Bringing them back is an option we would have. Options are good! If we want to save them 'stab -> gentle repose -> raise dead' is much cheaper then 'die of poison -> wish'. If we don't want to save them 'stab -> gentle repose' is still a cheap enough price to pay to convince the loyal ones that "oh yeah we are totally gonna fix 'em later!". :P
I could not give you a page number but I remember (far from foolproof mind you) that during the drizzt novels (among the first three, I think it was the first one) the council apparently along with some lower ranked houses (do'urden was involved and they were not among the council) were wiping out a house that failed. They also had the three schools involved as well. The house in question holed themselves up rather then try to fight their way out or flee. It was the scene involving Drizzt being disillusioned about his people's sense of justice.
Concerning why they don't just teleport and such. I would say because of the faerzress making long distances risky. Also how are you going to escape what is effectively every mage of note and power, watching you pretty much makes it impossible. They will have everything from outsiders to wards making sure nothing and no one escapes. I would think none of them want a council matron blaming them for the screw up, may even be their own. :Z
As for Drizzt himself, putting aside the "hero" status.
The council as a whole never went after him while he was in their domain and among his own people. First his own house went after him, only after he had escaped the city. Sending only a priestess and handful of henchmen. Then they sent his undead father, which broke his trance like state long enough not to murder his son and get himself killed...again. After that he was left alone because he was on the surface and his house was destroyed, again by the 1st house not the council as they broke no "laws".
The only time that the council moved, at the 1st houses urging mostly not their own collective will, was when they went after him as an excuse/bonus to moving against methral hall. Which was basically war not an execution and their forces were of similar ability not overwhelmingly one sided.
Considering House Kewadin did not even break the thousand mark in numbers. House Vandree's inability to wipe them out without a sneak attack destroying the bulk of their forces and even then did not sweep the place like a wave. Says plenty about their numbers and how they will fair against the council.
Aye but the interesting point is why pick certain death (holing up) over dicy-as-heck escape (teleporting, all-out attack to break encirclement)?
No matter what forces the council actually can and will muster it doesn't make sense, from my point of view, that the life-loving drow would pick the option that doesn't give them a chance.
I mean they ought to be smart enough to assess their option right?
So unless all the defeated drow are so emotionally crippled from their failure that they can't even think about their survival remaining in the city must simply be the better option.
And so it must in turn be able (if perhaps not likely) to lead to more things then utter annihilation. Selling out or defecting seems to me the most likely options, in addition to slavery (but then, I reckon many Drows would take their chance over that!).
Makes sense ya?
Also see compelling but spoilery argument bellow :P
Hun'ett attacked Do'urden but failed and was wiped out, is that what you meant?
That actually contains an interesting tidbit I didn't know!
The actual Matron Mother of Hun'ett were adopted by Do'urden after all this went down. So there is a precedent (or will be, in about a millennia :P)
I'm not going to say, "No, you can't attempt to recruit Vandree members before their downfall", but the chances of getting to one in time is slim. Drow "justice" in these matters is swift.
Don't really have to recruit them, just get them to transfer the initiation fee in time :P
I'm leaning to the company route as well. Heck, Calas could be the figure-head you're looking for too. Loyal and kind to the family, no real ambition, not really great at political maneuvering, but strong* enough to kill anyone that tries to kill him.
As for the two half-dead priestess... eh,
IC Calas would prefer to not kill them, since they are family after all.
OOC The family member that Calas was tied to with the "family ties" drawback could easily be transferred to Vantrag or any of the other surviving family. So killing them and holding them as a trump card for later won't be too much of a problem.
Regardless, I'll have to think of some appropriate mental trauma for Calas to go through once the shock of most of his family dying actually hits him.
Though I may have gimped Calas a bit by building him incorrectly. I really should have done Unchained Monk 1 followed by 19 levels of Unchained Barbarian. Why I didn't do that in the first place completely eludes me...
Better HP, no negatives from flurrying, and no threat of insta-death from rage-ending.
Hopefully I don't keep having major misses. If I do, I may have to submit to groveling to the GM. Though something tells me he may enjoy that >_>
I am not the author or anything so I can only guess at why drow behave as they do. But like any creature backed against the wall, even if they logically know their is no way out, the instinct is to fight for your survival as best you can. Given the option of certain death trying to escape or certain death behind walls and defenses. I suppose they took the defenses, throw in a little take as many enemies as I can with me if you want.
Also from my impression of the books, drow society is as counter as it may sound, highly structured in it's chaos. Drow are so mentally conditioned, prideful, and xenophobic that taking their chances in the wild or abandoning their society is almost against their nature. Look at how few truly manage it much less live a life outside their own kind after the break. This is not restricted to the traditional Lolth worshipers ether. Even the "good" moon loving drow remain largely among their own with a mixture of others that share their god's worship. The same with the shadow dragon related drow and the masked lord worshipers. Even driders stay close to the society that often turned them into monsters. It seems almost despite themselves they cling to their respective societies firmly. Often death being preferred over abandonment of their culture/society.
Then again their ego is boundless and maybe they thought they had a chance. :Z
No I don't think the house was mentioned by name, if it was I don't remember. Hun'ett came later and the council knew about their attempt before hand if I remember right because they used the last surviving DeVir as an excuse to openly attack them.
Concerning Hun'ett, it only mentions the matron mother not anyone else. Matrons are the most powerful/valuable so that exception is a considerable gain, not lowly trash as we would likely (if we wanted to avoid getting taken over by a high level) recruit. Give it a shot, DM said it's slim though.
As for the two sleeping ones, sort of surprised how cheap the council is being. 2000 gp is a steal, mind the fact that you don't have it on you. I may be wrong I only keep track of my own stuff. Even if you do have it, may want to check on them. They have been on the clock this whole time with that curse killing them slowly. The matron is most likely to survive if she is the strongest. Given enough time their dead, in case anyone forgot Vicalan telling them that. Repeatedly. ;)
So what are the votes for and against at? Mine is for the company route, don't care if it's 2 gp. :D
Company
@services cost: They did say "at least". ;)
Remember Calas we would be killing them for their own good*!
*AhhahahahahaHAhahaHAHaHAHAHaAHHahahahaAHhahaha!! No really, wouldn't want to risk them succumbing to the curse and never coming back right :P?
It is a shame Gentle Repose had to be a third level wizard spell otherwise that would have been the perfect IC excuse to rope Vicalan back in again ...
@Exception - Indeed it only mentions her. But I figure this might be the reason most drow stay. They know their chances outside is crappy (and they don't really want to leave either, as you mentioned!) so they try and make themselves important enough to rejoin another house.
But in a standard case (ie failed target house not totally crippled like now) there wouldn't be too many takers ...
And I guess that ego may cause them to somewhat overvalue themselves :P
@Service cost - so 2000gp + taxes and hidden fees? Brrr...
@Voting - I too vote for no seniority.
Like I said I don't remember the details but the house that was destroyed was before Hun'ett ever got involved. Zak was still alive and shared the scene with Drizzt as he questioned what crime they committed that warranted full out extermination. He was still naive then, so before he went off to fighting school too I think. If you want a page number then it's not coming anytime soon as I have the book but not on hand. The same scene shows up in the comics too but less detail as well if that helps. That's on my tablet so I can look it up to see if they let the name slip.
Edit- Found it in the comic on my tablet. House Teken'duis. Check forgotten realms wiki if any details are to be had outside the book.
Edit- AHA! Check spoiler.
Company sounds fun!
company, aye
Um, I went ahead and gave her the gold before I saw these posts -- OOC I vote for "go company" as well but I don't know what I should do in character about that? (Yeah, I really did just happen to have 2,000gp on hand.)
You can revise that post if you think of a good way. :)
Um, I went ahead and gave her the gold before I saw these posts -- OOC I vote for "go company" as well but I don't know what I should do in character about that? (Yeah, I really did just happen to have 2,000gp on hand.)
We could save them, and go rogue? Would make for some interesting frenemies. Or they could join us in the company route? Though I doubt they'd like taking orders... though judging from how the house was handled, making them figure-heads would be easy.
Hell, I've a feeling if we went full house again, making them puppets wouldn't be that hard either.
My vote is still Company, just musing.
I'm cool with company, just don't wanna get bogged down in trading details. That's sorta goin on in another game I'm involved in, and it's kinda killin my current interest in things.
The DM could say the price is higher after seeing the curse, or they could be to late and the curse killed them.
From Vantrag's position she could just look in the pouch and see that it's not as much as she thought or that some was lost while fleeing. If you go full revision you could just think about what it would mean to be free from two controlling family members who have already proved inapt. It's her chance for a fresh start, to be free to pursue her own path. Your not lawful and a drow so just letting them die and choosing not to help is enough.
I would not save them and go rogue. They seem like "normal" drow so they will kill us or force us to kill them. We would also lose all access to any remaining assets.
P.S. Why do I feel like an evil jimmy cricket, your drow and some of you are even evil. What is with all this baseless loyalty and lack of ambition. Your all freaking me out with all this moral fiber. xP
The DM could say the price is higher after seeing the curse, or they could be to late and the curse killed them.
From Vantrag's position she could just look in the pouch and see that it's not as much as she thought or that some was lost while fleeing. If you go full revision you could just think about what it would mean to be free from two controlling family members who have already proved inapt. It's her chance for a fresh start, to be free to pursue her own path. Your not lawful and a drow so just letting them die and choosing not to help is enough.
I would not save them and go rogue. They seem like "normal" drow so they will kill us or force us to kill them. We would also lose all access to any remaining assets.
P.S. Why do I feel like an evil jimmy cricket, your drow and some of you are even evil. What is with all this baseless loyalty and lack of ambition. Your all freaking me out with all this moral fiber. xP
Hey! I'm speaking mostly out of character here... Just forget the part where Calas is SUPER loyal to family and doesn't really care about politics beyond helping his family get what they want.
I'm a slave so whatever..lol.
Company would be fun. Just distract Nate, or set it up as that House finishing he job.
To all my games:
I will be leaving for a hunting trip (Moose in Alaska) tomorrow and will not be back to full online presence until the 19th or 20th. I will be flying all day tomorrow, so I will be able to post some, but not as normal. I will be completely out of contact from the 15th to the 18th.
In any case, sounds like we're going company. Duly noted. Youall can RP and discuss the nature of this company, who will be in charge, what your initial goals are, etc. while I'm away. :)
Hard to RP it when we are all stuck in different places :P
But we can certainly talk about it trough our magical meta-link! :P
have fun on your trip!
If you all want to RP/narrate Your way back together without me I'm totally cool with that. You could even cooperatively run an encounter with that gang if you want.
Have fun storming the castle...errr...moose.
Someone is going to have to send Vicalan a letter or something. He has no idea of anything going on. Anyways better one of you then that old man. ;)
P.S. Happy hunting, be careful of the moose, and let us know what moose taste like. :D
Right, good luck with the animals. And I hope you bring a big freezer :P
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@Company - Saeras has good sources that say "surface imports" are soon going to be open for competition.
How do people feel about that?
I wonder if we can bring back one ... or both of them ... from the brink of death, would they be willing to get on board with the company idea. Maybe not, but if our house assets have been so reduced, then perhaps they could see the wisdom in it.
Maybe the Council's healing can leave them still needing time to recover and in the meantime we can persuade them or something :)
As Vicalan noted House Kewadin won't last long once the extent of the damages become apparent. So for us to remain at our spot we would either need to make a desperate gamble to somehow gain a good deal of power or we would have to put up a facade and hope no-one calls our bluff ever.
I'd say both are high risk moves and the rewards wouldn't be super; we would remain where we were yesterday but with about 0% chance of ever advancing.
Someone too proud to admit a setback or someone feeling invincible would probably try either of these regardless. Now the later seems a bit unlikely given the circumstances, but surviving catastrophe has had that effect on people before (see the classic "I-AM-INVINCIBLE! *freeze*"). But I do guess we all might have some feeling for how proud and stubborn our leaders are?
Unless they have the flaws mentioned above restructuring ourselves and staying out of the spotlight is the reasonable thing to do and I'm sure we could get them on board.
Minor note: I'm not sure if I mentioned this earlier or just thought it, so I'll write it here just to be sure.
We should really really keep any plans of disbanding house Kewadin close to our hearts until the Vandree scum has all but been wiped out. Wouldn't want them to lawyer their way out of this one!
This is all OOC so the thought of disbanding the house has not even occurred IC. So no worries there, maybe after reviewing the amount of losses suffered then the realization can be had.
As to saving one or both of them and "hoping" they see reason. I suggest you remind yourself their drow and look up all the personality and character traits common among them. I very much doubt their candidates for being exemptions to the norm.
Any argument will be a titanic struggle between ego and survival instinct no doubt. Most of us seems to lean towards survival but a reasonable theory would be that ego is proportional to rank which may lead to trouble.
Knowing which way our leaders lean, something we hopefully have picked up on from our time in the house, would be a great aid in choosing to revive them or not.
(Problems like their free will was sorta why I suggested slicing their throats and saving the problem for later :P)
I wonder if we can bring back one ... or both of them ... from the brink of death, would they be willing to get on board with the company idea. Maybe not, but if our house assets have been so reduced, then perhaps they could see the wisdom in it.
Maybe the Council's healing can leave them still needing time to recover and in the meantime we can persuade them or something :)
Or we could "coerce" them into doing what is right for their own safety.
Also, I wouldn't mind facilitating the shop's fight if we want to do that.
Not involved in the shop stuff, so have at it.
As to any influence that could be exerted on the sleeping ones, sense we are doing OOC stuff. No matron or high ranking drow is going to be anywhere close to 3rd level, likely one could murder the lot of us. So any coercion would be a bluff at best. In all odds pointless, so again you would be forced to reason with them. Which personally I see no chance of working on them. Once the motive of vengeance is gone, no doubt they will strive to prove their "superiority" and "rightful" place by rebuilding and becoming stronger then before. Which any half smart rival above or below will take advantage of to snuff out while they are so clearly weakened.
Spider kissers are silly things. ;P
For a good in character reasoning/rationale as to why killing the two sleeping house 'elders', one could easily argue that we who did not succumb to death or enspellment are clearly chosen by Lloth to survive and become more powerful.
As the matron and daughter are in some sort of stasis/curse/poisoned stated, they are obviously no longer favored by Lloth and must perish. Their continued existence is likely an affront to the Spider Queen.
If Nate was a drow, he would slit their throats,
start a band of mercs, and grow to reek havoc, chaos,
revenge on House Vandree until we subvert their infrastructure and they fall hard!
....but what do i know, i am a just a dumb 1/2 orc slave....lol.
OKAYYYY...
@GM: Good luck with the d'Moose. I hear they are actually really dangerous if they get riled up, so be careful.
So, I was wondering why there had been no posting from anybody over the last week or so...
What is this about a company? I must have missed something there.
And NO...Hakk will not let anybody slit his Mother's or his Grandmother's throat or leave them to die. He's too attached mentally to them and the family in general. He'd rather die than let them go peacefully. He was trained from a baby to be obedient to the family first and foremost.
And NO...Hakk will not let anybody slit his Mother's or his Grandmother's throat or leave them to die. He's too attached mentally to them and the family in general. He'd rather die than let them go peacefully. He was trained from a baby to be obedient to the family first and foremost.
But think about all the saved costs!...
The problem we are soon to be facing are outlined here.
But the basic gist is that house Kewadin lost so much (to our knowledge) that the next stiff breeze is probably going to knock it over. Which is why people are considering what options we have.