Life Support is paid as part of the monthly expense, empty or full while food stores are treated incidentally and therefore not tracked beyond the regular life support for the ship. The only exception is if a room is used double occupancy, wherein the life support goes up by half for that room. However if you can receive full payment for both tickets you still net profit for the room even with the cost increase. The passenger does not pay extra for life support over the ticket price; the ship pays that monthly regardless of passenger type, High, Middle, or Low.
The mortgage amount is settled based upon the final price of the ship remaining to be financed, not the original value. If I go to a realtor and by a home and put down 10 grand, 50 grand, or 100 grand as the down payment, I will have a house payment based upon the difference not the full price of the house. Down payment high or low I will still likely have a thirty or forty year mortgage.
You also have to look at you are not using the single production cost for the ship but the cost in quantity price as many of this model have been procured by the IISS over the years. Scraping out models at a discount is more common than you'd imagine, as is selling the equipment to second or third world countries at a significant price drop. I saw no reason why we could not work such an arrangement into the game to ease us past this stumbling block.
The metagame reasoning for the "upgrade" changes is to better meet some of the gripes about sustainability. Lesser asking price, larger cargo capacity, possible extra staterooms increase the revenue potential. The speed of 2G to 3G was not much of a difference considering police cutters and fighters burn at 6Gs anyways. Corsairs run at 3G but from a distance they may not realize which model you are, and that may give you a chance to bluff them off.
The fluff reasoning for the changes is that raiders are less likely to attack a ship of the IISS and therefore less need for boosted armor and speed, coupled with the need to carry extra supplies for delivery to outlying bases. The addition of a captain's cabin and machine shop were to reflect the militarized nature of the crew and the need to provide harder to procure parts when out on the fringe. Four low berths and an E-Berth saves the crew while allowing the captain to go down with the ship.
I feel much happier about this version.
Keep in mind, combat ships are high maintenance and poor transports.
Before we had a light combat ship with cargo capacity, now we have an armed transport, huge difference as noted in the updated costs.
This means that one run a month should pay for the ship, and leave a week or two for adventuring, which gets us away from the grind of just staying viable we were looking at before.
I'd like to suggest coming up with a method of allowing characters personal tonnage space. Either a flat amount each, or based on shares.
Maybe something like 1 dton for every 3 shares, or fraction of. This can be used to store personal items that exceed bunk space, or for personal cargo speculation.
I'd like to suggest coming up with a method of allowing characters personal tonnage space. Either a flat amount each, or based on shares.
I have no problem with that.
Aside from the grav racer, it is unlikely that Varkha will need any more space.
@ Lodic: have you determined what your motivation is for joining the ship? You don't have ship shares and apparently don't believe in them. Are we going to be paying you a salary as someone who has hired on? Or do you have some other motivation?
For the record I also have no problem with paying Lodic a salary, though it seems like some sort of profit-sharing thing would make more sense.
Darrian culture finds private ownership mildly bizarre. He's investing in cargo so far (worked out well since he didn't roll any ship shares on muster out anyway, had to roll a 6 to get any). I believe the motivation for Lodic currently is to get out of Darrian space and try to rebuild his life. I think he's mostly joined up as an expert/advisor/minor investor since he didn't have any ship shares. My understanding is that should change as they progress, as since he's investing his money in cargo/putting his life on the line/etc to get teh ship paid off, he'll be earning shares going forward. He may find them amusing when he gets them... :)
The ship currently has no cash in its account.
Therefore everyone will need to be putting up cash to buy any cargo that is spec, otherwise we'll be running this first mission on COD.
Characters that do put up cash for spec cargo can expect upon sale of the cargo;
They will first get all of their starting cash paid back, and a percentage of any profit. The remaining profit will go to the ship.
I'd like to have it at something like a flat 25%, but we may need to base it on making the ship payment first.
For COD cargo, proceeds first go towards ship costs, which are defined as; monthly payment, fuel, basic life support/supplies (characters can pay out of their own pocket for luxury foods), and repairs. Any profit is then divided up on a share basis (not the same as ship shares, but related).
60% goes to the ship account. This is to provide for future speculation cargo, ship upgrades, specialized gear, savings against future shortfalls, ship payoff, etc.
The remaining 40% is divided amongst the owners and crew. Each crew member gets one share, owners get an additional share per "ship share".
Varkha has 4 ship shares, so he gets 5 shares.
Lodic is crew, he gets a ship share.
Kenneth has 5 ship shares, so he gets 6 shares.
Allrianne has 3 ship shares, so she gets 4 shares.
Lysander has 6 ship shares, so he gets 7 shares.
Doc has 10 ship shares, so he gets 11 shares.
Total profit shares are 34.
Example: Profit from run is 100k Cr. Ship gets 60k Cr, the remaining 40,000 is divided by 34 and then each individual gets their portion. This would work out to 1176.47 Cr per profit share. Lodic ends up at the bottom end with 1176 as his wage for the trip.
Doc, being the largest investor, makes out with 12939 Cr.
I hear the "that's not fair argument" it is however, realist as to how something like this works. I would expect that in the future, characters could be rewarded for exemplary behavior with a ship share.
I would also allow that characters could buy ship shares, hastening the process of getting the bank off our back. We would need to determine what a ship share is worth now, based on the purchase price of the ship. Obviously, as we pay off the ship, this value will be more than a percentage of current value, the excess would go to the ship account for upgrades and future need.
I threw these numbers out as examples. I previously mentioned that instead of splitting per ship share, it could be per 3 ship shares. This would increase the value of each profit share, while still differentiating between crew and investor.
Your thoughts?
Just stumbled upon the rule that gives you +1 to cash benefit's if you have Gambler 1 or higher, so my money has just doubled (to a still skint 8000, but hey).
I assume the shares of profit are after paying off those who contributed the cash, because, while Lodic has the lowest shares of the ship, he's got the highest cash in pool value. :)
Also, as we pay off the ship, additional shares need to be split amongst the crew. That is, if we pay off 1% of the ship, each person receives 1/7th of a ship share (or whatever the number of crew is). Thus after we pay off 7%, everyone's ship share goes up by 1.
Also, as we pay off the ship, additional shares need to be split amongst the crew. That is, if we pay off 1% of the ship, each person receives 1/7th of a ship share (or whatever the number of crew is). Thus after we pay off 7%, everyone's ship share goes up by 1.
Don't forget that through wheedling and favor-peddling we actually own 82% of the ship, not 33% (which is why our payments are so low), though we also owe favors to various agencies. So that's an extra 49% - should we just split that 7 ways? It does evenly divide by 7.
Only waiting on Allrianne's Broker roll to determine the final purchase price and complete the Prologue to Adventure storyline.
Allrianne, please give me an Average Broker Skill check, you may use a bonus from Intelligence if available.
I'd suggest leaving the discounted portion alone. Too many variables in how it could be split.
I do like an automatic increase in shares as the ship is paid off.
@Lodic I think I'm seeing two ways to get cargo/passengers. One is COD (Cash on Delivery) which really won't require any of us to pony up any cash up front. This would be split based on the profit share I outlined.
The other method is speculation cargo. That requires us to buy the cargo now, hoping to sell it for more later. That option would be a split after those that put money upfront were repaid their initial investment. They should also get a larger return for putting up that money as well.
Somehow missed that
Ok, so here is how things have broken down thus far. I used the skill rolls to determine the value of favors owed to various entities as discounts/bonuses/etc. against the purchase price of the ship. They worked out as the following, adding to existing Ship Shares. Lodic inherited the two shares originally intended to Maximilian Vincenzio, who seems to have disappeared on your group. The death/disappearance would give Lodic a reason to be part of the band, honoring the intentions of his "friend/ally/whatever" as well as giving him a stake in the game.
Varkha Gzegdoug started with 4 shares, but procured a favor with the IISS worth an additional 10%, for a total of 14 shares.
Relsanth Lodic Kelser started with 2 shares, but hit upon saving the planetary fees, worth an additional 9%, for a total of 11 shares.
Kenneth deLacie started with 5 shares, but hacked through databases to find a good used ship, worth an additional 8%, for a total of 13 shares.
Allrianne Voss started with 3 shares, but talked the port authority into a transfer, worth an additional 10%, for a total of 13 shares.
Lysander Montague started with 9 shares, but impressed the bankers with a solid deal, worth an additional 8%, for a total of 17 shares.
Dr. Devon McBride started with 10 shares, but finagled friendships into a good loan officer, worth an additional 12%, for a total of 22 shares.
A favor is owed to the Regina Securities and Trust, a banking corporation who does business throughout the subsector, with branch offices located in Class A starports in all neighboring subsectors.
A favor is owed to the Imperial Interstellar Scout Service, which has bases and interests scattered throughout Imperial space.
A favor is owed to the Imperium Starport Authority, a division of the Imperium Ministry of Commerce.
Synopsis:
Varkha has 4/14 shares
Lodic has 2/11 shares
Kenneth has 5/13 shares
Allrianne has 3/13 shares
Lysander has 9/17 shares
Doc has 10/22 shares
RS&T has 10 shares in outstanding lonas
Totals grew from 33% to 100%
What started out as a total of 33 ship shares is now standing at 90 shares. This equates to an original purchasing need of 17.0028 MCr. The final loan value over forty years will be 37.4064 MCr.
Below are the monthly ship's expenses:
Life Support: 20,500 credits
Maintenance: 17,715 credits
Mortgage: 77,930 credits
Total for the month (w/o fuel) 116,145 credits
Refined fuel costs 500 credits per ton
Unrefined fuel costs 100 credits per ton
Skimming is free, you just need to spend the time to refine it or risk a misjump by using it raw.
I have updated the Deneb Rising and placed players in their respective crew positions with salaries noted.
Pilot/Small Crafts: Varkha Gzegdoug 9,000cr
Astrogator/Navigator: Relsanth Lodic Kelser 5,000cr
Ship's Engineer: Allrianne Voss 4,000cr
Medic/Stweard: Doctor Devon McBride 6,000cr
Chief Gunner/Broker: Lysander Montague 3,000cr
Gunner/Computer: Kenneth deLacie 3,000cr
If possible, I would like each of you to provide a finalized and equipped copy of your character so that we can begin. You may either send me a copy of your character via PM (I can provide an email address if needed), post it on your alias, or list a usable link for me to review and notate for my records.
Please include any special connections you have made to other members of the crew as well, and only those specifically agreed to by the other player. I know some of you posted a plethora of possible connections, I just want to be sure which ones are valid and active in regards to one another.
Those of you who made purchases of a vehicle, make sure you have the prerequisite skill to drive/fly the craft. The ATV uses Drive(Tracked), the air/raft and related vehicles use Flyer(Grav).
Kenneth, your computer skill, while valuable, was not a listed ship's position. I am granting you Gunnery 0 as a bonus skill to allow you to fill one of the spots needed on the ship. The ship's computer can only control one position at a time, so with you and Lysander, the Deneb Rising can successfully operate three of the four turrets onboard.
OK, I believe I have connections with Allrianne (a salvage op), Kenneth & Lysander (a smuggling op), Maximillian (working passage on my ship - in case he comes back), and Doc (medical research on an alien planet).
Details are on my Profile.
If any of these are wrong, please let me know.
OK, I believe I have connections with Allrianne (a salvage op), Kenneth & Lysander (a smuggling op), Maximillian (working passage on my ship - in case he comes back), and Doc (medical research on an alien planet).
Details are on my Profile.
If any of these are wrong, please let me know.
OK, Varkha's profile is updated for everything except ammunition. How much is ammo for an accelerator rifle?
I originally thought that I would take shotgun as my weapon thinking that Gun Combat had to be in a specific weapon, but since the skill is in all slug rifles, I will take an Accelerator Rifle in case we have a firefight in zero-g. I'll use a shotgun from the ship's locker when we are in an environment where the accelerator is illegal but shotguns are ok.
@ GM Darkblade: Please have a look at my profile and make sure everything is up to spec.
I believe it is 30 credits for 15 round magazine.
Everything looks fine for the moment though I believe Maximilian has left the game so that connection has dropped off the board.
I believe Lodic is complete, other than the sensors vs comm change.
I believe it is 30 credits for 15 round magazine.
Everything looks fine for the moment though I believe Maximilian has left the game so that connection has dropped off the board.
OK, updates made. Bought 20 clips since I figure it is an unusual weapon and I don't know when I might be able to get more ammo.
Updated, linked to Varkha and Lysander.
Mostly just bought some Toolkits that don't appear to be in the ship's locker.
GM: Any chance you can put links to the SRD, Planet data, and other useful things either in your character info line or in the campaign information section?
Updated, Linked to Varkha and Lodic (for skills), and The Doc just for background.
The Campaign page has been updated and modified as requested.
There is new information available for 1116.
Amber Travel Advisories issued for Kinorb and Heya, and surrounding systems within two jumps of either locale. All notifications are posted through 060-1116.
Moving OOC discussion over here for the moment.
1) & 2) are the same contact? so no harm in talking the Mckinsey about both - Allrianne is happy to go along and help
3) Allrianne would rather not meet with the hunters, and lacks the skills to do much with them anyway. Would all the crew need to accompany the hunters on their foray?
4) Presume Lysander needs to be contact on this, but again, I can come along with this if no one else wants to?
If we are accepting all 4 jobs, then we use up
70[1]+10[4] tons of cargo
and 3 high passage passengers, + what [4] requires?
I'm not entirely sure how our staterooms break down?
Doc appears to have controlling share, so is he the nominal captain (and gets the captain's stateroom) then we use 2 double state rooms + one of the single "guest" ones for the rest of us?
Leaving us with 2 Doubles and 2 Singles, presumably?
+4 Low berths.
So presuming the guy on [4] needs a Middle-High berth (low berth's are cold storage yes?) We only have 40 tons and 4 low berths left to fill.
There are 4 low-passage passengers heading to Feri according the list (one with an additional 4 tones of Cigars).
I'll leave filling the cargo hold to people with more experience of that sort of thing.
5 tons for the mail is a nice check, 25K.
That leaves us with 31 tons for speculative cargo. The Regina stuff should sell well.
Moving OOC discussion over here for the moment.
1) & 2) are the same contact? so no harm in talking the Mckinsey about both - Allrianne is happy to go along and help
The personal delivery is a separate contract, but offered by the same person so likely one is dependent upon the other.
3) Allrianne would rather not meet with the hunters, and lacks the skills to do much with them anyway. Would all the crew need to accompany the hunters on their foray?
No, your group can probably negotiate the number of bodyguards dependent upon what the hunters need/desire. Some of you can stay with the ship or deal with other matters, such as making McKinsey's delivery or babysitting pass through passengers, locating other cargo for your next jump, etc.
If we are accepting all 4 jobs, then we use up
70[1]+10[4] tons of cargo
and 3 high passage passengers, + what [4] requires?
The mail contract is most always available, so that would be 5 tons.
Lysander's contact needs cargo space for 10 tons.McKinsey has a need for at least a minimum 70 tons.
McKinsey has incidental cargo which can fill the remainder of the hold if you do not have other vendors. You would need to successfully negotiate with her to allow for other shippers' cargo, as it was for a Full Hold situation.
I'm not entirely sure how our staterooms break down?
Doc appears to have controlling share, so is he the nominal captain (and gets the captain's stateroom) then we use 2 double state rooms + one of the single "guest" ones for the rest of us?
Crew typically take the double staterooms, as they are bunk arrangements. The captain's quarters is a queen size bed and has "office" space for administrative needs, etc. The single staterooms are single queen size beds which can sleep double occupancy if needed or desired, as in the case of the hunters or the married Zhodani couple.
As two of the hunters are willing to share a stateroom, that would use only two staterooms. Depending upon how you negotiate with Lysander's contact the technician could be offered to share one of the crew bunks, if Doc or someone else on the crew has decided to take the captain's stateroom.
That would leave two single staterooms and one double stateroom. No High Passenger will pay full price for a double stateroom, except in emergency or desperate situations. Middle Passengers may well be convinced to share a double stateroom, but they may want a discount, depending upon your negotiating skills.
It would be good to know how your group is sharing the living arrangements. Three humanii males, one humanii female, one Darrian male, and one Vargr male all walked onto a spaceship. Which crew are sharing which staterooms together?
If you wanted, you could reconfigure one or more of the double rooms into singles, up to everyone having their own room. Of course you would limit the ship to only two passenger staterooms at that point, but the option is available to you this one time free of charge. Changes made later will cost time and credits to put into effect, at an appropriate port of call.
For ease of determining occupancy, here is the current list.
Captain's Cabin:
Double 1:
Bunk A -
Bunk B -
Double 2:
Bunk A -
Bunk B -
Double 3:
Bunk A -
Bunk B -
Double 4:
Bunk A -
Bunk B -
Guest 1:
Guest 2:
Guest 3:
Is it possible to 'pool' the crew quarters into one larger area with sealed bunks?
Example : See the Jovian or Crew Capsule bunks. Basically, one 'common' crew area with these in the wall. We aren't going to need desks/living area for every crew all the time in the crew area. Instead of 6 bunks, we could take up all 3 rooms and use one room for 9 coffin bunks, and the other two rooms for a common crew area, including storage lockers on the wall opposite of the bunks.
No, this is not a possibility at this time. This is space opera not hard science. Having a home/living quarters is part of what the ship is about, not merely a means of transportation.
Not sure it matters who we share a cabin with, since we'll be off shift at different times.
Sorry, but I'm dropping out of this game.
Sorry to hear that, Lysander.
GM, we spent a long time putting things together. Do you want to recruit someone else?
Or should we turn Lysander into an NPC? In a game like this it wouldn't hurt to have a character who "stays with the ship" a lot.
Mainly I worry about the time necessary to integrate a new character, and want to get moving.
Not sure it matters who we share a cabin with, since we'll be off shift at different times.
So... which one of you doesn't mind the wet dog smell of Varkha getting out of the fresher? ;P
@Lysander, sorry to see you go!
@ Varkha, Bunk with Lysander, I don't think he'll mind...
Well thanks Devon, now my keyboard has cola on it.
First off, let me say I was really looking forward to gaming with you folks, getting a Traveller game off the ground and out amongst the stars. You have come forwards with some unique characters and it would have been nice to see where they took the game, to whatever heights or lows you could have imagined. The stars were opening up to you.
Unfortunately, I am sorry to have to do this but due to issues with my health and some pending work expansions over the next several months I will not be able to continue with developing this game. My current employer is expanding it's customer base nearly double the current capacity, without similar increases in staffing. We are expecting mandatory overtime amounting to roughly 50-60 hours per week during likely several times through May or June, with blackout periods and vacation holds a real probability.
I will not be able to focus on the work and my health while keeping up with the quality and regularity the game would require. I will be lucky to keep up enough to maintain myself and my employment, without which I would lose the insurance I really desperately need right now.
This stressful period is expected to last approximately through the summer, or part of it at least. After that I might find the room to return to the game and perhaps pick this up again, but I don't want to offer up false promises. I am sorry for this, I hoped things at work would have been managed a bit differently, but it was not for me to decide. If you wish, I will keep you all in mind and should the stars realign, contact you once things have settled down.
Again I am sorry to do this, but I thought it better to end it now than things blow up and I have to do so midway through the first of next month.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you get over your health issues!
Ah well, better to get a notice. Hope your health improves. Good luck!
Sorry to see this game ending before it really even took off, but thank you for being upfront with us. It has inspired me to perhaps run a game of traveller in the near future....
Thanks all for making this an interesting game!
Please close down the thread.
BTW if an actual traveller game comes up, let me know!
Sometimes real life has to come before games.
Thankyou for your time.
Thanks for the heads-up, good luck.