JAM412, hopefully you'll be thinking of a new character while Uro receives a suitably glorious Viking-like funeral? (This PBP seems to be working out well -- thank you for suggesting it!)
Yessir. Looking at options now.
Tough luck, Jam. I didn't say much I guess because I was hoping there'd be some loophole we could exploit, but I guess not.
I was hoping there'd be some loophole we could exploit, but I guess not.
I thought of one -- but it's a long shot. See gameplay thread!
Do negative levels work similarly to Pathfinder? Couldn't find them called out in the rules.
Do negative levels work similarly to Pathfinder? Couldn't find them called out in the rules.
The only places they're referenced so far is in the Spells chapter:
Existing Spells: The following spells can be used “as-is,” without being built from other seeds: contagion (reduce spell level to 2nd), enervation, magic jar, time stop, unseen servant.
Enervation, in turn, gets the Crippling Debilitation feat tacked on to it in the Grimoire in order to make spells that potentially give you permanent negative levels instead of just temporary ones.
So far, that's pretty much all I've done with them, so, yes, let's default to the Pathfinder rules for now, unless anyone has another suggestion. In the meantime, I'll earmark that as something to address in the section on Conditions in the Combat chapter. Thanks!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That works! Easy is good.
So if I wanted a glove that cast bull's strength on my two times a day...
900*2*3*.4= 2160? Does that sound right?
That would put my numen at 2880 which is over par but allowed until I could rebalance?
Or maybe I can just find a couple potions of Bull/Cat and juice up for now and craft something more complex later?
So if I wanted a glove that cast bull's strength on my two times a day...
900*2*3*.4= 2160? Does that sound right?
Yes. It would require a standard action to activate; each use provides a +4 enhancement bonus to Str lasting 3 minutes.
(For the future, gloves that constantly provide +2 Str would cost 4,000, but are a lot more useful because you don't need to spend a round activating them.)
Oh I know that other methods would be cheaper, but I only have so much numen to go around :p
Oh I know that other methods would be cheaper, but I only have so much numen to go around :p
You have 5,400 at par, now that we're leveling up. In addition, you also have 5,100 worth of overflow, in case you snag the supervisor's gloves of ogre power +2 (see gameplay thread), which are now well within your means.
Since this was a consumable that was used right away, how should I figure this into Uro's numen?
Good question. My initial thought was that, since you'd otherwise be dead, you're permanently behind by 1,400 numen (or until you can get an actual raise dead). In a few levels, that amount will seem like pocket change anyway.
That said, since Lady Vanderboren got you into this mess and it's technically her potion, I don't mind you shifting the cost onto her. She's now got 2,400 numen -- enough for the potion, with 1,000 to spare.
I'll let you decide how you want it to work.
Ergh. Between looking for a job this week, and in-laws visiting for the weekend, I haven't made the time for leveling Jym up. Monday at the latest, hopefully.
Doesn't look like anyone else has started yet, either (except Lady Vanderboren).
Doesn't look like anyone else has started yet, either.
What a bunch of slackers.
Bal, if you're still out there, I'm going to recommend hold person as your new 2nd level spell. Nothing says "badass" like shutting down one combatant before he can even close with you! And with half Dex damage even if he saves, it's almost never a wasted option, even against really tough people. The only catch is that it only works on humanoids.
Elebrin, are you going to melee?
Ioxtl, do you want the studded leather +1?
Okay, mostly leveled up.
Max HP: 4 (rounded down half of d8) +1 (Con bonus) +1 (Favored class bonus) = +6
BAB +1
Spell Capacity is now 4th level. I've picked up silence and saving grace. I haven't looked at how they convert to Kirthfinder, yet.
Class Abilities:
- Lore Master (better Knowledge checks)
- Sound Mastery (sonic resistance; sound lance is an at-will spell)
Nothing crazy concerning the skills
Kirth, do my saves look right?
Still need to update numen.
Yeah, the studded leather would be sweet, but Jym is welcome to it. Hopefully Ix can do better at staying out of melee in the future.
Take it, then. I plan on Jym being much less of a target that the rest of you.
I've picked up silence and saving grace. I haven't looked at how they convert to Kirthfinder, yet.
Finale, Saving: Resistance (0 level) + Reach Spell (touch to close; +1 level) + Quicken Spell (+3 levels) + Interrupting Spell (+1 level) + Extend Spell (1 rd./level to inst.; -1 level) + Creature-Specific Spell (under effect of your bardic inspiration; -2 levels) + Tenuous Spell (casting ends any bardic inspiration you are maintaining; -1 level) = 1st level; target can immediate re-roll one saving throw with a +1 resistance bonus, but this ends the inspiration you are maintaining.
Sound Mastery (sonic resistance); sound lance is an at-will spell)
Ranged sound lance +3 touch (4d6 sonic)
Kirth, do my saves look right?
Let me know if I'm off, because I'n not fully caffeinated yet:
Fort: +2 level +0 class +1 Con +1 resistance = +4Ref: +2 level +2 class +3 Dex +1 resistance = +8
Intu: +2 level +2 class -1 Wis +1 resistance = +4
Will: +2 level +0 class +4 Cha +1 resistance = +7
Thanks, Jym!
Anyone else? I'm available to give suggestions, etc. Hell, I'll even do the leveling for you if you're too busy -- it was always one of my favorite things, so of course it's needlessly involved in these house rules...
Honestly I am just having choice paralysis. I'm think I should just complete the sidhe track and then work on my wizarding from there but I'm not 100%. I should have a choice soon...
Edit:
I think Sidhe three is a good choice. Bump to Dex, take the gauntlets, become effective ...3rd level wizard? and snag some spells to boot. If I take Cat's grace, pop the ring I should be a passable fighter and still have some flex.
DR goes to 3
I need to scour the rules to figure out all the specifics. I am looking to have it done in the next 24.
Yeah, I'm only stalled because of the number of options. That's a plus for me, I like all of the choices, it just takes a little extra time.
Also, let's get this done:
Alright, I think Uro is good.
4th Level Checklist:
Ability score increase: Strength
Totem Feat: Stamina Training +1 Con per 3 ranks of endurance
Rage Power: Beast Hide +2 Natural Armor while raging
Base Attack Bonus Increase
Bonus Skills: Athletics, Endurance and perception (Handle Animal)
Allocate additional Skill points (4)
2 in Knowledge Planes
2 in Diplomacy (prepping for Paladin next level)
Uro mostly looks good, aside from some very minor piddly +1s and -1s.
Male orc barbarian 4
Init -1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., woodland sight; Perception +9
Languages Common, Orc; speak with animals
AC 15, flat-footed 15, touch 11 (-1 Dex, +2 insight, +4 armor); raging 19, flat-footed 17, touch 15
hp 59 (4 HD; LW 29/HW 14); DR 2/― (raging 4/―); +8 temp. hp while raging
Fort +4, Ref +1, Int +6, Will +1
Spd 40 ft.; woodland stride
Melee +1 great axe +11 (2d8+10/x3) or
Power Attack +9 (2d8+16/x3) or
Raging +11 (2d8+16/x3 plus 1d6)
Ranged hand axe +9 (1d6+5/x3)
Base Atk +4; CMB +9; CMD 18
Special Atks lesser rage (+2) 14 rds/day
Rage Powers Known (IL 4th)
Lesser—beast hide, protective spirits
Attributes Str 20, Dex 9, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 9
SQ boar totem, favored terrain (jungle) +2, intimidating prowess
Feats Canny DefenseB, DiehardB, Exotic Weapon ProficiencyB (axe), Fast RecoveryB, Power AttackB, Stamina TrainingB, Staredown, Vital StrikeB, Weapon Specialization (axe)
Skills Acrobatics (1/+), AthleticsB (4/+12), Bluff (3/+5; intimidate +11), Concentration (1/+0), Diplomacy (2/+1), EnduranceB (4/+13), Handle Animal (4/+6); Heal (1/+6), Knowledge (linguistics, lore, warfare) (1/+4), Knowledge (planes) (2/+2), PerceptionB (4/+9),Planar Sense (1/+6), Stealth (1/+3), Survival (3/+10)
Possessions PC gear (mojo 2,100; min. 2,400, par 5,400, max. 10,500): +1 great axe (2,000), masterwork ring mail (100)
--
The main thing is to get your numen up over 2,400 -- with your current gear, you're a CR 3 character filling a CR 4 role. Failing that, go ahead and level to 5th and keep it low (you'd still be CR 4).
I think Sidhe three is a good choice. Bump to Dex, take the gauntlets, become effective ...3rd level wizard? and snag some spells to boot.
Yes, either way you hit spell capacity 3rd, which gives you access to a 2nd level spell. I'd recommend some sort of mass mook control/debuff--Jym has the buffing under control, and Ixotl and Uro do great against individual targets at range and in melee, respectively. During that last fight, ideally it could have been your job to sleep or color spray or pyrotechnics the grunts so that Ixotl wouldn't get beaten comatose by them.
Looking over Jym some more, he's got more ranks in Concentration than he has levels, which violates a half dozen or so rules (that I know Jym doesn't care about, but poor Andostre is stuck with them). He also short-changed himself on spell slots (Cha bonus) and some other stuff. My best figurings for Jym's stats:
Male halfling bard (minstrel) 4
Init +3; Senses Perception -1
Languages Common, Halfling, Elven, Goblin, +1
AC 22, touch 20, flat-footed 18
(+1 size, +3 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 insight, +3 armor)
hp 28 (4 HD; LW 14/HW 7)
Immune enemies’ competence bonuses
Resist sonic 10; bravery (1 step)
Fort +4, Ref +8, Int +4, Will +7
Spd 20 ft.
Melee dagger -1 (1d4-2 nonlethal)
Ranged eldritch blast +2 touch (2d6 sonic) or
sling +3 (1d4-2/x3) or magic stone +4 (1d6-1/x3)
Base Atk +3; CMB +0; CMD +3
Special Atks bardic inspiration (2nd level) 14 rds./day, inspire courage +2
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 4th)
3/day—magic stone
Arcane Spells Known (CL 4th, capacity 4th)
2nd (4/day, DC 16, check +7)—silence, suggestion*
1st (7/day, DC 15, check +9)—hypnotism* (2d4+4 HD), saving finale, personal invisibility
0 (at will, DC 14, check +11)—dancing lights, ghost sound, message, sound lance, unwitting ally
Attributes Str 6, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 9, Cha 19
SQ favored terrain (urban) +2, lore master 1/day
Feats Beginner’s LuckB, Canny Defense, Dodge, Magical TalentB, Skill SynergyB (crafts), Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Skills Bluff (3/+10), ConcentrationB (4/+11), DiplomacyB (4/+14; +16 urban), Escape Artist (1/+8), KnowledgeB (linguistics, lore) (4/+10), Perception (0/-1), PerformB (music) (4/+13), Sleight of Hand (3/+9), Spellcraft (3/+7), Stealth (1/+8), Streetwise (4/+11)
Possessions PC gear (mojo 3,070; min. 2,400, par 5,400, max. 10,500): pastry pants (180), everfilling thermos (90), hat of resistance +1 (1,000), unlimited potions of cure light wounds (900), wand of cause fear (900)
When I upgrade his potions to "unlimited" and add his wand, his gear is still within limits and leaves him 2,330 discretionary numen to play with.
OK...
+1 BAB
+4 HP
+1 DR/Cold Iron
+2 spells known: Sleep, Blur
Bonus Ranks in: Concentration, Planar Sense, Spellcraft
5 Ranks in: Bluff, Diplomacy, Kno: Warfare, Perception, Craft (Lapidary)
+2 Dexterity (class)
Some things I am not clear on:
Feat progression on total level still a thing? I missed a feat at 3rd level?
Is attribute bonus on total class level a thing? or are those embedded in class progression? (Because then I might have two attribute changes?)
+2 spells known: Sleep, Blur
At capacity 3rd you'll have, at any one time, the following numbers of spells prepared:
0 -- 41st -- 1 +1 (bonus) +1 (Int) = 3
2nd -- 0 +1 (bonus) +1 (Int) = 2
I would definitely recommend a mook-control spell. Taking sleep and removing the Expedient Spell feat gives you a 2nd level spell that deals up to 5d6 nonlethal damage in a 10-ft. burst, for example, with no HD limit.
Feat progression on total level still a thing? I missed a feat at 3rd level?
Yes, please pick one! Also, your Daoine Sidhe levels give you Exotic proficiency in one blade of your choice.
Is attribute bonus on total class level a thing?
Yes, it is.
or are those embedded in class progression? (Because then I might have two attribute changes?)
Those are in addition, so, yes, you do.
------
Like Uro, you are massively under-geared. I'd pick up a lot of stuff, or else go ahead and level to 5th instead of 4th, but keep your gear super-low.
------Like Uro, you are massively under-geared. I'd pick up a lot of stuff, or else go ahead and level to 5th instead of 4th, but keep your gear super-low.
How low is low? If I took the gauntlets and kept my ring I would be at 4720 which would put me at 4280 below par for a level 5? Would that be low enough to have me jump up another level?
So at some point, I think when I went to 3rd level, I upgraded my ring mail to a breast plate with a reduced armor penalty. I included it in Uro's stats, but ever put it in his gear. I'll fix that now, I think it was 900 numen.
Kirth, would you mind giving any suggestions on items to pick up with Uro's remaining numen?
How low is low? If I took the gauntlets and kept my ring I would be at 4720 which would put me at 4280 below par for a level 5? Would that be low enough to have me jump up another level?
You'd have to be below minimum for 5th level -- i.e., 3,450.
Re; spells, since you've got the Spellstrike feat, I'd recommend preparing something like shocking grasp as a 1st level spell, so you could make a sword attack that would also deal 4d6 electricity damage, for example. It's an easy way to ramp up quick melee damage output. Even better, because it requires an attack roll, that damage also gets multiplied on a crit -- and Exotic arming sword proficiency can give you an 18-20 crit range. Given limited spell slots, for rarely-used utility spells like expeditious retreat that don't scale with caster level, I'd buy a potion instead of having it tie up a slot.
So at some point, I think when I went to 3rd level, I upgraded my ring mail to a breast plate with a reduced armor penalty. I included it in Uro's stats, but ever put it in his gear. I'll fix that now, I think it was 900 numen.
900 would reduce the armor check penalty by 3 -- i.e., to -2. Your ranks in Endurance reduce it by an additional 1, to -1. In order to get your Canny Defense bonus, you need to reduce your ACP to -0, so I would go ahead and do that if I were you -- the cost goes from 900 to 1,600.
If you wanted to stick with the whole "my axe is blessed by the goddess" thing, for 1,000 numen you can add the blessed property to your axe: it will penetrate DR/good and auto-confirm crit threats against [evil] opponents, which may come in handy later on. If you don't want to do that, a +1 resistance bonus to saves (also 1,000) is almost never a bad idea.
With all those additions, your total would be 4,600 -- well within par.
You could grab the +1 hand axe (2,000) from the loot pile as well, because it would count against your 5,100 "found/crafted" instead of your "par." (It might come in handy if you encounter a flying enemy with DR/magic, for example).
Oh yeah, I was thinking bonus instead of ranks for the endurance armor check penalty for some reason.
I like your ideas! Thank you! What would it take, if it were even possible, to add returning to the hand axe?
Oh yeah, I was thinking bonus instead of ranks for the endurance armor check penalty for some reason.
I like your ideas! Thank you! What would it take, if it were even possible, to add returning to the hand axe?
Returning Weapon: Mage hand (0 level) + Reach Spell (close to medium; +1 level) + Delay Spell (after weapon thrown; +1 level) + Ray Splitting (multiple throws; +1 level) + Extend Spell (concentration to 1 rd./level; +1 level) + Object-Specific Spell (thrown weapon only; -2 levels) = 2nd level (1st level if weapon must be within close range to return).
1st level x CL 1st x 500 (use activated) x 4 (rds./level duration multiplier) = 2,000 numen if target within 30 ft.
For more distant targets (up to the axe's max. range), 6,000 numen would be the price tag.
Ok, so I will stick to 4th and gear up a bit.
On the topic of feats...
Magical Talent...
So, for instance, I could take Shocking Grasp...cast at my skill level in concentration ranks 3/day going up to at will at level 5?
Or am I missing a beat on the formula?
Kirth, do my saves look right?Let me know if I'm off, because I'n not fully caffeinated yet:
Fort: +2 level +0 class +1 Con +1 resistance = +4
Ref: +2 level +2 class +3 Dex +1 resistance = +8
Intu: +2 level +2 class -1 Wis +1 resistance = +4
Will: +2 level +0 class +4 Cha +1 resistance = +7
Oh yeah, the +1 from my magic hat! That's why my numbers were off. (But Will is also a good save for bards, so that's a 9.)
Okay, I still have to update numen and go through Kirth's deep-dive post, but the job search takes precedence.
Magical Talent...
So, for instance, I could take Shocking Grasp...cast at my skill level in concentration ranks 3/day going up to at will at level 5?
"At will" would hit at level 6. But, yes, you can totally do that. That said, as a kind-hearted DM I'm going to recommend you swap out the damage to sonic, so that demons, etc. aren't immune:
Keening Grasp: Shocking grasp (1st level) + Versatile Evocation (sonic; +1 level) + Reduce Spell (10d6 to 5d6; -1 level) = 1st level.
Bal, Ixotl, how are you guys coming along?
I am close to being finished. I have a question about extra spells for high casting stat. Do spontaneous casters gain additional spells known or spells per day for high stats? The ranger doesn't get class bonus spells, and the ranger class guide mentions that they cannot cast first level spells at first level (spell capacity 1) unless they have a wisdom of 12 or higher. But the spells chapter indicates that the bonus is only to spells per day, so I'm confused. Basically, how many orisons and first level spells should Ixotl have at 4th level (spell capacity 2) with an 18 wisdom?
Oh yeah, I was thinking bonus instead of ranks for the endurance armor check penalty for some reason.
I like your ideas! Thank you! What would it take, if it were even possible, to add returning to the hand axe?Returning Weapon: Mage hand (0 level) + Reach Spell (close to medium; +1 level) + Delay Spell (after weapon thrown; +1 level) + Ray Splitting (multiple throws; +1 level) + Extend Spell (concentration to 1 rd./level; +1 level) + Object-Specific Spell (thrown weapon only; -2 levels) = 2nd level (1st level if weapon must be within close range to return).1st level x CL 1st x 500 (use activated) x 4 (rds./level duration multiplier) = 2,000 numen if target within 30 ft.
For more distant targets (up to the axe's max. range), 6,000 numen would be the price tag.
Awesome. Thanks for your help with this stuff. This game has been my only connection to the 3.x system for the past few years, so I end up forgetting how a lot of the basics even work.
I am close to being finished. I have a question about extra spells for high casting stat. Do spontaneous casters gain additional spells known or spells per day for high stats? The ranger doesn't get class bonus spells, and the ranger class guide mentions that they cannot cast first level spells at first level (spell capacity 1) unless they have a wisdom of 12 or higher. But the spells chapter indicates that the bonus is only to spells per day, so I'm confused. Basically, how many orisons and first level spells should Ixotl have at 4th level (spell capacity 2) with an 18 wisdom?
Prepared casters gain additional spells prepared per day (more simply, "additional spells prepared;" I've amended the text in Chapter 8 accordingly -- thank you!). Spontaneous casters gain additional slots per day.
What's confusing here is that rangers, unlike most casters, don't have a selection of bonus spells (the "+1" on Spells Table 1).If Ixotl wants to prepare spells (standard ranger):
0 level spells prepared: 4
1st level spells prepared: 1 +1 bonus spell (not gained by ranger class) +1 (Wisdom bonus) = 2 total.
If Ixotl wants to cast spells spontaneously:
0 level spells known: 4; uses/day: at will
1st level spells known: 1 +1 bonus spell (not gained by ranger class) = 1 total; uses per day: 4 +1 (Wisdom) = 5.
---
BTW, I love what you did with the dying condition and your sling -- that's exactly how I'd wanted the numen system to work.
The life-drinker property is even cooler if we use the converted death knwll spell: when the weapon reduces a creature hit to -1 hp or below, it deals an additional 3d6 negative energy damage; if this kills the victim, the wielder gains +2 enhancement to Str and 1d6 temporary hp/HD of victim (max. 3d6), lasting for 10 min./HD of victim (max. 30) or until lost.
This game has been my only connection to the 3.x system for the past few years, so I end up forgetting how a lot of the basics even work.
The house rules have, little by little, drifted so far from 3.5 that they're only tangentially related at this point -- so it behooves me to provide as much clarification as I can! Thank you for agreeing to bear with them for the sake of this game.
I am close to being finished. I have a question about extra spells for high casting stat. Do spontaneous casters gain additional spells known or spells per day for high stats? The ranger doesn't get class bonus spells, and the ranger class guide mentions that they cannot cast first level spells at first level (spell capacity 1) unless they have a wisdom of 12 or higher. But the spells chapter indicates that the bonus is only to spells per day, so I'm confused. Basically, how many orisons and first level spells should Ixotl have at 4th level (spell capacity 2) with an 18 wisdom?Prepared casters gain additional spells prepared per day (more simply, "additional spells prepared;" I've amended the text in Chapter 8 accordingly -- thank you!). Spontaneous casters gain additional slots per day.
What's confusing here is that rangers, unlike most casters, don't have a selection of bonus spells (the "+1" on Spells Table 1).If Ixotl wants to prepare spells (standard ranger):
0 level spells prepared: 4
1st level spells prepared: 1 +1 bonus spell (not gained by ranger class) +1 (Wisdom bonus) = 2 total.If Ixotl wants to cast spells spontaneously:
0 level spells known: 4; uses/day: at will
1st level spells known: 1 +1 bonus spell (not gained by ranger class) = 1 total; uses per day: 4 +1 (Wisdom) = 5.
---
BTW, I love what you did with the dying condition and your sling -- that's exactly how I'd wanted the numen system to work.
The life-drinker property is even cooler if we use the converted death knwll spell: when the weapon reduces a creature hit to -1 hp or below, it deals an additional 3d6 negative energy damage; if this kills the victim, the wielder gains +2 enhancement to Str and 1d6 temporary...
Thanks, that was how I thought it would work but I wanted to be sure. I'd made the decision for Ix to spontaneously cast when I first made him, so that's what I'm sticking with.
The orisons I've selected already are detect magic (helps with tracking magical auras) and naturewatch (naturally). I also took cure light wounds for his only level one spell, as he can now ward his companions and divert the Lord of Death's gaze elsewhere (at least a bit). I'm keen to tie his spells to his underworld connection (metaphorical, not criminal), so I'm open to suggestions for the other two slots.
I'm totally down to use the revised death knell for the life drinker, and I'll also be adding icy burst as soon as I can afford it (would put me 100 numen over).
I'm keen to tie his spells to his underworld connection (metaphorical, not criminal), so I'm open to suggestions for the other two slots.
LOL! Hmmm...
If you want to play up the sling, magic stone is a 0-level spell for rangers, and the increased damage vs. undead fits with the whole underworld theme.
Create water or purify food & drink seem to fit his drinking from the stream in Mictlan, as does detect poison.
Bleed is sort of superfluous, since your sling takes care of that already. Stabilize is handy if you run out of CLW spells or can't get to someone -- assuming Bal decides he's had enough or is otherwise unavailable. (Yeah, they're not on the ranger spell list, but one shouldn't be too stingy with 0-level spells.)
I'm totally down to use the revised death knell for the life drinker, and I'll also be adding icy burst as soon as I can afford it (would put me 100 numen over).
I get 5,000 for the sling (2,000 for the +1 enhancement, plus 3,000 for life-drinker), out of 5,400 par for this level. So a 2,000-numen frost property would put you over par by 1,600, not 100, unless I'm missing something.
Frost would indeed be 2000, but frosty burst is only 500 per 1d6 on a crit, to a maximum of 5d6.
Frost would indeed be 2000, but frosty burst is only 500 per 1d6 on a crit, to a maximum of 5d6.
Aha! Gotcha. A crit-only effect is probably overkill for you, though, since a lot of your crits will be in the form of coups de grace anyway...
Yeah, but I realized that I had been using Killing Stroke wrong. As written, only melee coups de grace trigger the save vs death, so I figured I needed more damage to reach the -1 HP threshold so that death knell can trigger.