With the heart of the Stolen Lands explored and the bandits who ruled there scattered, the long-contested realm finally lies open for pioneers and settlers to stake their claims.:
Amid the rush of opportunistic travelers, the PCs find themselves stewards over a new domain, tasked with the responsibility of guiding and guarding a fledgling nation struggling to grow upon a treacherous borderland. Yet the threats to this new nation quickly prove themselves greater than mere bandits and wild beasts, as the monstrous natives of the hills and forests rampage forth to slaughter all who have trespassed upon their territory. Can the PCs hold the land they’ve fought so hard to explore and tame? Or will their legend be just one more lost to the fangs of the Stolen Lands?
M Dwarf | AC 27, T 12, FF 25, CMD 24 | HP 65/75 | F +11 R +7 W +13 (+3 vs spells/SLA/poison) | Move 30' | Init +1 | Per +17 | Active: Vestment, GMW, Barkskin, Flight, Tongues, Haste
Durgan moves up and casts Shield.
He shouts down at Hotspur, "Your Lordship, abandon this Stag Lord idea! The man is a monster!"
Zokons eyes go wiee open for a second and he savours the feeling of the lady's grip and the softness beneath his hand.
But he has to get on and help
He looks in the direction of the close by elemental and Scarlet "That elemental at the top of the steps just hurt my friend, I must goto her, please."
"Pish posh, your friend is well supported. Besides she is a servant of Sarenrae. Trying to burn her is like trying to burn the sun. Unless!" And at this Lady Luljeta's eyes go wide. "Ser and the young paladin!?"
Miles almost stops his performance, but keeps it up and forces a smile on his scarred lip, making it more like a crooked grin.
"Y-You must be mistaken, luv. My name is Miles." he states, but continues the performance, though steps away from the fey. "Err...let's talk once things calm down. with that he continues his movements, following Alia, but continuing his performance to aid in the battle against the elementals and see what's happening at the front gate.
GM:
Plot thickens, something tells me this won't work.
Bluff:1d20 + 11 ⇒ (13) + 11 = 24
My assumption is perhaps she can see through glammer, but it doesn't explain how she knows who he is. Very troubling and not good for his paranoia, hence part of the reason he's keeping a distance between the two of them.
"Pish posh, your friend is well supported. Besides she is a servant of Sarenrae. Trying to burn her is like trying to burn the sun. Unless!" And at this Lady Luljeta's eyes go wide. "Ser and the young paladin!?"
"What no.. she's a nice lass and all, but we hardly know each other. and why are we talking about this, they need my help please, unless you wish the young dangerous lord to escape?" he tries again the pull away
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
"Bah," says Numalar. "Let the lordling go. If the city guard appears his plans regarding this mercenary company are foiled anyhow. The mercenaries can hardly keep their contract if it is overruled by the Lord-Mayor, now can they? That will happen whether or not Hotspur is here."
"Better to let him save some face by not having to deal with the guards personally. He can disavow the mercenaries, and they will be free of his contract."
"Hmm..." Illthir surveyed the scene from her vantage point, looking to see if there were any more flames or suspicious figures about. But mostly she concentrated on keeping her spell up for now.
Concentrate is a standard action, so no more fun this turn : )
"What no.. she's a nice lass and all, but we hardly know each other. and why are we talking about this, they need my help please, unless you wish the young dangerous lord to escape?" he tries again the pull away
"Well of course I do, silly! I let him keep his mercenaries here didn't I? In time, when he has won his kingdom, perhaps he will think kindly of his one-time hostess." she giggles and blushes. She releases Zokon, and turns away to hide the sudden change to her pallor.
Male Undine (They're dwarves! You know they're dwarves! They just ain't rock-headed like some.) Magus
There's spout of water from inside the tower. It hits the underside of the trapdoor, forcing it open and causing the beacon to roll off and onto its side where the flames gutter. A moment later, Blue Beetle is standing on the battlements having been lifted there by a pyramid of his men.
She shrugs, sighs, and double moves AGAIN down the stairs towards her charge.
** spoiler omitted **
"IT'S OKAY! I'M WITH P-MILES!" Erevenywg shouts back with a big, exaggerated wink. She notices Miles moving off, looks puzzled, sniffs her own armpits, and then prances after the gnome. "See?"
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 6! (Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Hotspur
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia supersized, climbing
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenary/gate operator
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
Alia considers climbing up all the way, then jumping down...but that seems like a very dangerous course of action with no haystack waiting to soften her landing.
Climb DC 5:1d20 + 7 - 1 - 5 ⇒ (9) + 7 - 1 - 5 = 10
Instead, she speedily climbed down the rope, just enough to get some slack and be able to jump back towards the battlement she started from.
Accelerated climb for half speed is 15 feet, so at +52 feet Acrobatics:1d20 + 13 - 1 ⇒ (8) + 13 - 1 = 20
Adjusting her position during the way down, jumped the remaining few feets over to solid ground, avoiding the shrine and coming to a stop next to Numalar momentarily, clearly ready to use her momentum to continue moving downward.
(Plan for next round) Jump to guardhouse and hope the roof is stable, jump to ground and hope I land on him.
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 7! (Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Hotspur delaying
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia supersized
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenary/gate operator
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
M Dwarf | AC 27, T 12, FF 25, CMD 24 | HP 65/75 | F +11 R +7 W +13 (+3 vs spells/SLA/poison) | Move 30' | Init +1 | Per +17 | Active: Vestment, GMW, Barkskin, Flight, Tongues, Haste
Durgan moves through Numalar's and Alia's spaces and casts Bull's Strength on Alia.
| Bloodrage 12/12 | Fire Strikes 3/3 | HP 43/43 | AC 18 T 14 F 14(Uncanny Dodge) | CMD 19 | Saves 6/4/0 (+1 Will vs Mind Affecting) | Init 3 | Perception 3 | 4 Female Ifrit Bloodrager (elemental, fire) | Spells 2 |
Erevenywg wrote:
"IT'S OKAY! I'M WITH P-MILES!" Erevenywg shouts back with a big, exaggerated wink. She notices Miles moving off, looks puzzled, sniffs her own armpits, and then prances after the gnome. "See?"
"Okay, but stay out of trouble. I'm gonna help Alia."
Scarlet looks at the inspirational gnome. "Take care of Erevenywg please."
Scarlet hustles over to her charge, and in view of Hotspur. She realizes how bad her position is.
Zokon moves up [down] the steps and then fires an arrow at the elemental facing Serena
"I'm behind you Serena, get it."
The arrow skips off top of the corner merlon and out over the moat as the elemental weaves and bobs.
Hotspur notes Scarlet's arrival and the looming giant elf above him, as the red dwarf rounds the corner and calls to her charge. As if by magic, a stiletto appears in the man's hand.
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 7! (Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Hotspur readied
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia as big and as strong as an ox
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenary/gate operator
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
Male Undine (They're dwarves! You know they're dwarves! They just ain't rock-headed like some.) Magus
Meanwhile, high above more dwarves attain the battlements of the beacon tower. Arbalasti, and Bloody Angus can be seen on the battlement standing beside their scowling captain.
There seems to be a great commotion coming from inside the bell-beacon tower.
Down below in the courtyard, Miles can hear the sound of a veritable tidal wave of cursing dwarves, and clanging armor steaming toward the cathedral doors to his right.
"YE DOON THAUR! OCH AYE YE, YE CAPERIN' DIVIT!" Bloody Angus calls down to Miles, "DRAW YER BLADE AN' DEFEND YER LAIRD, UR BY GORUM I'LL HAE YER WOBBLY BITS FUR GARTERS!"
Scarlet's translation:
"YOU DOWN THERE! YES YOU, YOU CAPERING IDIOT!" Bloody Angus calls down to Miles. "DRAW YOUR BLADE AND DEFEND YOUR LORD, OR BY GORUM I'LL HAVE YOUR WOBBLY BITS FOR GARTERS!"
Thanks Durgan. Scarlet: I think you can deduce the details from the post :).
Running onwards, Alia jumps from the battlements over to the guardhouse, pulling her Estoc in the process.
Acrobatics:1d20 + 13 - 1 ⇒ (8) + 13 - 1 = 20
Once there, minimizing time spend at the edge of the roof, in case only the section above the wall was even able to carry her, Alia turns around and jumps down, aiming to land on hotspur selline...even with her current weight, size and strenght, she was unsure if she could ace the landing, so she mostly made sure to keep her magically charged Estoc tightly gripped.
Acrobatics:1d20 + 13 - 1 ⇒ (17) + 13 - 1 = 29
Certain that she got the young nobles attention, one way or the other, she hisses: "Transfer ownership of the contract and command over the company to me if you want to survive." For the record, she'd instantly transfer command to Scarlet and her brother, and extend ownership to the party. We DID want to hire them, right? To be honest, I have no idea if that could even work that way. Neither has Alia, but it seemed a tad bit more productive than screaming 'Death from Above!' at the top of her lungs while stabbing downwards with her noble-sized magical toothpick.
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 7! (NEW Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Hotspur readied
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia as big and as strong as an ox, 1 nonlethal
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenary/gate operator
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
Serenabot takes a deep breath rembering her training at the foot of the wandering wiseman Ches-Vac Hye. She stops thinking. She let's things happen. She becomes the scimitar.
She recites his meditative verbal undulation, she closes her eyes willing it to be true with every fibre of her being! "Nahnahnahnahnahnahnah-nahnahnahnahnahnahnah. Be the scimitar."
The scimitar sings!!!
+1 scimitar v red (bless, inspired):1d20 + 6 + 1 + 1 ⇒ (6) + 6 + 1 + 1 = 14damage:1d6 + 3 + 1 ⇒ (4) + 3 + 1 = 8Unfortunately the scimitar uses a lot of autotune.
The elemental watches dully as the blade misses by a mile.
He let's the coal drop into the courtyard. Suddenly, the dimly gate area to about 20 feet up the side of cathedral wall is smothered in complete darkness!
Angus continues to yell at Miles. "Gods blest ye fur ah fool! Ah said draw yer weapon! Reit! Ah comin' doon, an' if 'at sword is still oan yer belt aam gonnae shove it up yer crease baskit first!"
Arbalasti immediately barks out a spell, and the two dwarves plunge becomes a slow, controlled float downward into darkness, like a pair of stout, heavily armed, magical British nannies.
Scarlet recognizes Angus and Singe's barking from anywhere. "Alia, my bro- I mean the Captain and Singe are coming down. This is gonna get worse before it gets better."
Actually is Angus and Blue who are coming down, Singe is a siege wizard who is there to control the battlefield and blow things up from afar. Scarlet has the opportunity for an AoO against the descending dwarves.
Even more flailing!
red slam v Serena:1d20 + 7 ⇒ (2) + 7 = 9damage:1d6 + 1 ⇒ (3) + 1 = 4Oooh, so close! ;p
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 8! (NEW Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Hotspur readied
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia as big and as strong as an ox, 1 nonlethal
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenaries (all)
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
| Bloodrage 12/12 | Fire Strikes 3/3 | HP 43/43 | AC 18 T 14 F 14(Uncanny Dodge) | CMD 19 | Saves 6/4/0 (+1 Will vs Mind Affecting) | Init 3 | Perception 3 | 4 Female Ifrit Bloodrager (elemental, fire) | Spells 2 |
Scarlet promised she would never, ever, raise her weapons to strike her bro. And that holds true today. She really wants to defend Alia, to protect her contract. If only she could get around this stupid horse and this idiot lord who makes deals with madmen.
"Dammit, we're out of time." She decides to delay, unwilling to attack her fellow dwarves and unable to squeeze that horse to reach Alia.
Looking frustrated to your keen eyes because he can no longer see, Hotspur quickly regains his cool. Looking resigned now he pulls a flask from his belt, and downs it, and now--somehow--not even you can see him!
Bless Bless fills your allies with courage. Each ally gains a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects.
Inspire courage An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls. Began round 2.
BOSS BATTLE Round 8! (NEW Boss Theme ♬)
The Bold May Act!
_________________
__ Medium fire elemental (red -21)
__ Scarlet -5 hp
__ Hotspur
__ Durgan -7 hp
__ Zokon
__ Serena -3 hp
__ Alia as big and as strong as an ox, 1 nonlethal
__ Miles
__ Numalar -12 hp
__ Illthir
__ Dwarven mercenaries (all)
Map updated. Note: the elevations of peaked roofs applies to the peak itself. Other spaces will be lower.
M Dwarf | AC 27, T 12, FF 25, CMD 24 | HP 65/75 | F +11 R +7 W +13 (+3 vs spells/SLA/poison) | Move 30' | Init +1 | Per +17 | Active: Vestment, GMW, Barkskin, Flight, Tongues, Haste
Durgan has a scroll of Invisibility Purge, but that is only 25' radius and Durgan is too high for it to catch Hotspur right now.
Illthir shudders as the scene unfolds beneath her. Then the skald moves towards the gate, keeping her spell up. If they were going to bloodshed over this she might as well make sure it's worth it. Hopefully Hotspur cools off a bit first though ...
Angus continues to yell at Miles. "Gods blest ye fur ah fool! Ah said draw yer weapon! Reit! Ah comin' doon, an' if 'at sword is still oan yer belt aam gonnae shove it up yer crease baskit first!"
He weaves a spell upon his captain.
** spoiler omitted **
Then he and Blue step from the battlements!
Miles blinks, struggling to understand what on earth the Dwarf appears to be screaming as it sounds like some-kind of foreign tongue.
"Reit? Crease baskit? Is that Orcish?" he asked, still not certain about the commands and draws his rapier and squints, being unable to see anything in the darkness, however he keeps up the performance to enhance the party's fighting capability.
If I believe I'm right, the darkness was there before Miles arrived so I can't cast a spell on anyone/thing in the area since I can't see whose there.
If I believe I'm right, the darkness was there before Miles arrived so I can't cast a spell on anyone/thing in the area since I can't see whose there.
Miles cannot accurately target individuals in or behind the field of darkness. He had arrived pre-dark, so he saw where Alia, Scarlet, Hotspur, his horse and the dwarf gatekeeper where before the darkness fell. He is still able to target an area effect spell, as he is fairly certain that the castle bindings and ground haven't moved, but it would be educated guesswork to know who he was hitting with it.
If I believe I'm right, the darkness was there before Miles arrived so I can't cast a spell on anyone/thing in the area since I can't see whose there.
Miles cannot accurately target individuals in or behind the field of darkness. He had arrived pre-dark, so he saw where Alia, Scarlet, Hotspur, his horse and the dwarf gatekeeper where before the darkness fell. He is still able to target an area effect spell, as he is fairly certain that the castle bindings and ground haven't moved, but it would be educated guesswork to know who he was hitting with it.
Ahh, then I'll edit my post...but I can't because it's too late. If possible I'd like to cast grease under where I believe the lord and his horse was. I have harmonic spell feat so I don't spend a action and can cast a spell without stopping my inspiring courage.
Hi all... first of all.. thanks DM for selecting me!... I will do my best to be a highly interactive and regular poster.
A bit about me:
I am a long time player (been playing rpg's since OD&D in 1974) and I've been playing PBP games for about 4 years now. I do so look forward to meeting each of you ic and ooc too.
ooc, I am an artist, and an archaeologist (retired). I still do textile art though. You can see my work at my webpage (click on 'gallery')... or my blog at Confessions of a Serial Quilter .
I have a regular Saturday Pathfinder game which I DM from my home from about 10-4 pst (during which time I won't be posting here, of course).
I do so look forward to playing this game with you all!
Ha well then, I actually thought that I may have not gotten picked (there is a lot of hate going around the forums for rogues) so I was actually making a PFS version of this character, and was making him an Archaeologist bard Halfling, essentially he does the same thing, just has a few spells to back him up, also was going to multiclass with the Filcher Rogue archetype i think. Role-wise he will be exactly the same, even the backstory can be kept the same (just change the parents to halflings) would you allow me apply the changes to this character?
Also just want to put it out there, I usually can't post anything during work (usually between 3-9pm CST) I have mondays off and can post freely on those days usually, unless I have errands to run, but those never last all day.
Ha well then, I actually thought that I may have not gotten picked (there is a lot of hate going around the forums for rogues) so I was actually making a PFS version of this character, and was making him an Archaeologist bard Halfling, essentially he does the same thing, just has a few spells to back him up, also was going to multiclass with the Filcher Rogue archetype i think. Role-wise he will be exactly the same, even the backstory can be kept the same (just change the parents to halflings) would you allow me apply the changes to this character?
I'd rather Jarvek stay half-elf as there are no halfling houses in Brevoy. Nor do I really want any at this time. Plus, one of the reasons he was chosen was because he was a rogue. I had another archaeologist bard submitted that I could have chosen but I didn't. :)
Just to let you all know, my work is sending me out of town for an emergency this weekend for a week. I fly out late Sunday night. Just means that next week I will do most of my posting in the evening (CST) where the normal pattern will be during the day.
I will try very hard to get the first post out Sunday evening, but if not it will be there Monday.
Congrats to you all, I look forward to some fun adventures together!
Hello fellow adventurers. I hope we'll get along well!
I'm a youngin at age 22 in Western Canada. I've played pathfinder for two years, but it seems that we've been homebrewing things that we weren't even aware of. I run two campaigns in real life per week. A Rise of the Runelords campaign, and a one-shot series. Online campaigns have appealed to me because I desire more roleplay than the majority of my friends.
I'll have Bella up and running shortly, looking forward to it!
Ha well then, I actually thought that I may have not gotten picked (there is a lot of hate going around the forums for rogues) so I was actually making a PFS version of this character, and was making him an Archaeologist bard Halfling, essentially he does the same thing, just has a few spells to back him up, also was going to multiclass with the Filcher Rogue archetype i think. Role-wise he will be exactly the same, even the backstory can be kept the same (just change the parents to halflings) would you allow me apply the changes to this character?
I'd rather Jarvek stay half-elf as there are no halfling houses in Brevoy. Nor do I really want any at this time. Plus, one of the reasons he was chosen was because he was a rogue. I had another archaeologist bard submitted that I could have chosen but I didn't. :)
I can definitely keep him half-elf, and him being an archaeologist is literally not going to change anything besides him not having sneak attack, he will still be doing the same tactics and acting the same way with the same skills (though more knowledge) and I will be multiclassing with rogue for extra talents and skill ranks.
I just really feel like he needs access to some enchantment spells since he is going to be the face of the group and I hope for him to make a lot of connections and networks, and detect magic is always a good spell to have. (Essentially the only reason I am choosing bard is because I want to make further use of his high charisma)
Hello fellow adventurers. I hope we'll get along well!
I'm a youngin at age 22 in Western Canada. I've played pathfinder for two years, but it seems that we've been homebrewing things that we weren't even aware of. I run two campaigns in real life per week. A Rise of the Runelords campaign, and a one-shot series. Online campaigns have appealed to me because I desire more roleplay than the majority of my friends.
I'll have Bella up and running shortly, looking forward to it!
I'm younger, 20. been playing for 3 years, have 2 real life games biweekly, one group, one solo. player for both. I plan on starting up a monthly game later on and will be GMing that one. I am currently in 2 other PbP one of which is also Kingmaker, the other an evil game homebrew campaign.
Female Human (Kellid) Warpriest 1 | HP 9/9 | AC 17 T 12 FF 15 | Ft +3 Rf +2 Wi +5 | Init +2 | Perc +3 l CMD 14 l Blessing 3/3
Good to meet you all. I'm cool with someone else being the face of the party, I'm hoping to be the lady who keeps the party in line. A morale guide who bolsters the group when times get tough, and offer guidance to those who wish for it.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Well this looks like an interesting party!
Numalar is meant to be a blasting sorcerer but with a lot of "tricks" up his sleeve. His primary skills are Bluff, Knowledge:Nobility, Perform:Oratory and UMD. For the record Numalar is LG, and takes his word very seriously, so he will appreciate the rest of you (especially the chaotic ones) not making promises on behalf of the party that you don't intend to keep! :)
My first impression of the rest of you (in no particular order):
Jarvek - looks like a rogue whose main combat focus is feinting. I like the hand crossbow! Don't see those too often. BTW I think you should be +2 to hit with the hand crossbow.
Celyne - a lunar oracle heavy on the spells rather than combat. Looks like her animal companion will do most of her fighting for her. I think Lunar oracle can be pretty powerful. Looks like you haven't picked your spells yet, so I don't know what your magic focus will be. Also, what is your alignment? Since you took the "legalistic" curse I am guessing you are lawful?
Zokon - a slayer, judging by your feats mainly intended to be an archer. When he gets a proper composite longbow he should totally rock.
Valeska - the obligatory Aldori dueling sword wielder - every Kingmaker group should have one. Looks like she will be taking the slashing grace feat later on. Also has better skills than most fighters.
Bella - warpriest of Sarenrae. Blessings include healing and also glory which grants a sanctuary effect. Interesting. I don't know a lot about how warpriests work.
-----
As to who is going to be the party face... well, there are lots of high CHA characters in this party. No one character dominates all the social skills.
That much being said:
Celyne has the best Diplomacy with 13
Numalar has the best Bluff with 12
Jarvek and Bella are tied for the best Intimidate with 8
Note though that just because you don't have the best skill doesn't mean you can't contribute. You can use your skill to Aid someone which gives them a +2 on their roll. In this kind of game I expect that most people will want to chip in most of the time.
-----
@KingmakerDM - I had mentioned that I might want to change enlarge person depending on party makeup, and since it looks like we are chock full of DEX based combatants maybe I should. Reduce person might actually be good for this party. It's an outright win for Zokon when he is using archery (and also Jarvek) and when Valeska gets Slashing Grace (I assume she will) it will be all-around win for her too (and still good even before she gets that feat). What do you think? Or is there any other buff you think would work better?
Actually I am going to send you a PM about my build.
Female Human (Kellid) Warpriest 1 | HP 9/9 | AC 17 T 12 FF 15 | Ft +3 Rf +2 Wi +5 | Init +2 | Perc +3 l CMD 14 l Blessing 3/3
Bella is both a front line fighter and a heal/buffer. Considering the number of damage oriented characters, she will most likely be staying in the back when in combat.
Out of combat... she will cook (please don't make that a skill check, my survival is horrible)
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Bella of the Everlight wrote:
Bella is both a front line fighter and a heal/buffer. Considering the number of damage oriented characters, she will most likely be staying in the back when in combat.
Out of combat... she will cook (please don't make that a skill check, my survival is horrible)
Well, we don't have any big barbarians or any particularly strong STR-based fighters. Bella is probably the 2nd-in-line character to be in the front.
Valeska is likely our main melee fighter. Zokon is good in melee but is great at archery so he probably won't be in the front very much. Jarvek will be good if he can flank but won't be a "heavy." Luna the Tiger is powerful when she (or he?) can get a full round of attacks, but that is not all the time. So Bella probably will have to use her scimitar a fair bit.
BTW cooking is normally rolled with Profession: Cook. So everyone will be bad at that in this party!
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
@KingmakerDM: Some general questions about the campaign:
1. Will you be allowing the Leadership Feat? I don't know about everyone else but when I originally designed Numalar I assumed he would be taking that.
2. Will you be allowing item crafting feats?
3. If so, will you allow customized items? Specifically:
A. Items that are based on existing items that give a numerical bonus (like a cloak of elvenkind for example) but granting a different bonus based on the existing formula, so in the example, a cloak that grants a different bonus, like +3 or +7.
B. Hybrid items that use the formula for combining two or more separate items (for example with slotted items this increases the cost of the secondary ability by 1.5).
3. Are you going to use the Kingdom Building rules from the modules or the rules from Ultimate Campaign? And if you are using UC, will you be using the optional rules as well?
Yeah Zokon is built to be able to fight melee and have a decent ac in melee, but will use his sword 1 handed. Going weapon master fighter (bow) so further specialising, then back to slayer.
Zokon is support and ranged damage, not too proud to put his bow down if the situation is better for the party as a whole if he does.
We'll need someone to decide on how we are going to explore, to do maps and to look after inventory.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
KingmakerDM wrote:
Jarvek Orus wrote:
Ha well then, I actually thought that I may have not gotten picked (there is a lot of hate going around the forums for rogues) so I was actually making a PFS version of this character, and was making him an Archaeologist bard Halfling, essentially he does the same thing, just has a few spells to back him up, also was going to multiclass with the Filcher Rogue archetype i think. Role-wise he will be exactly the same, even the backstory can be kept the same (just change the parents to halflings) would you allow me apply the changes to this character?
I'd rather Jarvek stay half-elf as there are no halfling houses in Brevoy. Nor do I really want any at this time. Plus, one of the reasons he was chosen was because he was a rogue. I had another archaeologist bard submitted that I could have chosen but I didn't. :)
@ Jarvek:
If you want to change your character there are a few things I would suggest.
If the DM likes the fact that Jarvek is a rogue, you should think about working within that rather than switching to a caster. We have 3 casters in the party currently. Obviously you will have to get him to approve your changes.
You have given Jarvek a high INT. INT is mainly for generating skill ranks and as a Rogue you already have a lot. Meanwhile your character is pretty weak physically; you have only STR 10, DEX 14, CON 10. I know having skills is fun but your character needs a way of contributing during combat and Jarvek isn't that strong in that regard. If you shuffled your stats around you could drop your INT to 13 (so you can still take combat expertise), and this saves yourself 7 stat points, which could go into DEX and CON.
Jarvek may have a high CHA but his CHA is actually the third-highest in the party. Other players are better than him at both Bluff and Diplomacy. Party-wise there isn't a particular need for him to fill these roles. However, Intimidate also works on CHA and there is nobody in the party especially good at that. Since Jarvek is neutral rather than good maybe he could be the cold callous one who scares the hell out of any prisoners we take. Intimidate can be used effectively in combat, especially if you are going with the Dazzling Display feat chain (which leads to Shatter Defenses, a very good rogue feat). So you might consider switching your skill focus to Intimidate - your memorable trait will still work with that. On top of that the Rake Archetype works very well with that and still helps your bluff and diplomacy. Rake is a classic character type for a dissipated noble scoundrel. You haven't written up a background for your character but I assume that is where you are going with Jarvek.
Edit - one more thing:
The sword cane is neat but the main point of it is to have a weapon in environments where they aren't expected or allowed. We will be in the wild most of the time and nobody will care what weapons we have. So I would suggest a rapier instead - it crits 50% more often and costs less so you save some cash for other stuff.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Zokon Santyev wrote:
We'll need someone to decide on how we are going to explore, to do maps and to look after inventory.
What do you mean by this?
For exploring, I assume we are just going to talk about where to go next and come to a consensus. I would prefer to explore territory that we can clear quickly first (for efficiency reasons) but other than that I have no preference. I think you make survival rolls to explore and I think Celyne is our best in that regard. Also perception checks, which everyone makes, presumably. DM will probably roll those for us.
Mapping - will the DM be doing this for us? Other campaigns I have seen worked that way. If not I have hexographer on my home machine and could put together something crude.
Inventory - we could hire a priest of Abadar to look after that for us. :). Seriously, is this likely to be a problem? Are you concerned about how we divide up treasure? Or just how we keep track of it? When I am online I usually have the chance to post often so if we need to have lists of stuff made up I can do that if need be.
Jarvek - if you've got a high int, you might want to consider going into Investigator instead of rogue - just a thought... nice class, gives you rogue sneak bonus to dmg and other things as well...
and despite being legalistic about her own word, she is actually NG in alignment, not LG.
As for the archaeologist, I could settle for changing the order of multiclassing and start off as a rogue and multiclass with archaeologist. that way he will still be proficient with sword cane.
@Numalar, I plan on getting a belt of physical might and will be putting my first ability score bonus into CHA. He is meant to be a face, a bit cowardly and always looks for others to guard him, thus why he makes so many friends. I don't really care if others have a higher Cha, this is how I built Jarvek and this is how he is supposed to be. He will end up being a saboteur, stealing and dirty trick will be his main focus in combat until he gets gang up which he will then use to implement sneak attacks, as for the beginning levels he will mostly be keeping his distance and shooting his crossbow.
@Celyne, I don't want him to be an investigator, he is smart yes buy his main focus is being Charismatic and making allies, but he is also a bit of a thief and con artist, not a detective or diplomat.
Actually I think I will change his skill focus to bluff now that I think about it.
Bella is both a front line fighter and a heal/buffer. Considering the number of damage oriented characters, she will most likely be staying in the back when in combat.
Out of combat... she will cook (please don't make that a skill check, my survival is horrible)
Well, we don't have any big barbarians or any particularly strong STR-based fighters. Bella is probably the 2nd-in-line character to be in the front.
Valeska is likely our main melee fighter. Zokon is good in melee but is great at archery so he probably won't be in the front very much. Jarvek will be good if he can flank but won't be a "heavy." Luna the Tiger is powerful when she (or he?) can get a full round of attacks, but that is not all the time. So Bella probably will have to use her scimitar a fair bit.
BTW cooking is normally rolled with Profession: Cook. So everyone will be bad at that in this party!
IDK what you are talking about, warpriests are nasty in melee, no they don't have the d12 hit dice but they've got great divine abilities to back them up both in damage and in healing.
Female Human (Kellid) Warpriest 1 | HP 9/9 | AC 17 T 12 FF 15 | Ft +3 Rf +2 Wi +5 | Init +2 | Perc +3 l CMD 14 l Blessing 3/3
I have a charlatan type rogue in one of the games I run. Very fun character. Sure, not particularly great in combat, but he can talk his way out of just about anything, fights included.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
BigP4nda wrote:
IDK what you are talking about, warpriests are nasty in melee, no they don't have the d12 hit dice but they've got great divine abilities to back them up both in damage and in healing.
I haven't played with them in a game before but they look a lot like clerics to me. Battle clerics can be really great. So I assume that warpriests fall into the same mold.
They seem to get less spells but on the other hand get bonus feats, an ability to buff their armor, heavy armor proficiency, free weapon focus, and a boost to sacred weapon damage (which will make a difference for Bella at 5th level).
The only thing about characters like this is that they usually need to spend a round or two buffing themselves before they really get going. It helps if we able to achieve surprise and sneak up on people. Of course Bella can also wear heavy armor so once we get some money she could turn into a tank.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
BigP4nda wrote:
Jarvek is supposed to be kind of wimpy.
@Numalar, I plan on getting a belt of physical might and will be putting my first ability score bonus into CHA.
Belts that boost physical stats are a good idea. But they are a good idea for everyone, and what your new stat is will be limited by what your base stat is.
BigP4nda wrote:
He is meant to be a face, a bit cowardly and always looks for others to guard him,
If he is able to get NPCs to do this then that is outstanding. But I expect other players might get tired of protecting you if there isn't some payoff.
BigP4nda wrote:
... but he is also a bit of a thief and con artist ...
If that's true, maybe he should be chaotic rather than lawful? FYI the "normal" alignment for both Brevoy and the River Kingdoms is CN.
Anyway, if you are still looking at character ideas, what about the Swashbuckler? They get to use Charisma for combat purposes, not only their Panache pool but also the effect of the dodging panache deed.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Valeska Talanova wrote:
I think they can buff as swift actions.
Yes, the sacred weapon boost starting at 4th level and the armor boost at 7th level are both swift action buffs. Of course, there is precedent for that - the judgements of inquisitors are also swift actions.
Mind you, they stack with stuff like divine favor and shield of faith so Bella will probably still want to use spells to buff herself.
Ha well then, I actually thought that I may have not gotten picked (there is a lot of hate going around the forums for rogues) so I was actually making a PFS version of this character, and was making him an Archaeologist bard Halfling, essentially he does the same thing, just has a few spells to back him up, also was going to multiclass with the Filcher Rogue archetype i think. Role-wise he will be exactly the same, even the backstory can be kept the same (just change the parents to halflings) would you allow me apply the changes to this character?
I'd rather Jarvek stay half-elf as there are no halfling houses in Brevoy. Nor do I really want any at this time. Plus, one of the reasons he was chosen was because he was a rogue. I had another archaeologist bard submitted that I could have chosen but I didn't. :)
I can definitely keep him half-elf, and him being an archaeologist is literally not going to change anything besides him not having sneak attack, he will still be doing the same tactics and acting the same way with the same skills (though more knowledge) and I will be multiclassing with rogue for extra talents and skill ranks.
I just really feel like he needs access to some enchantment spells since he is going to be the face of the group and I hope for him to make a lot of connections and networks, and detect magic is always a good spell to have. (Essentially the only reason I am choosing bard is because I want to make further use of his high charisma)
I like players to play characters that they really like and enjoy; that are interesting to them and that they can really get into. Makes it more fun for everyone and leads to a long-lasting game.
Having said that, if you want to change Jarvek from a rogue to something else, just let me know and I will put him back into the pool with the others and evaluate him in his new class. It wouldn't be fair to the other players who were not selected to select Jarvek based on one thing and then change that one thing after the fact.
So, if you want to change, just let me know and we'll pull him out, you can make the changes and then I will evaluate all the others together again to pick the 6th character for the party.
Just let me know what you want to do.
To all, I will be traveling later this afternoon so I might not be on again until Monday evening.
Let's remember, we all want to respect each other and have fun!!
Nah, I think I'm just going to withdraw all-together, the game should be about what the players want to play, not what the GM wants on his party. Have fun you guys.
Well that's sad... who will replace our rogue, DM? Are you gonna pick from the original applicants or recruit again? There WAS one more rogue on the list... plus lots of other choices too.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Well, it seemed like he didn't really know what he wanted exactly. I had had concerns that Jarvek would not be an effective character overall - I don't ascribe to traditional Rogue hate (I actually like rogues) but the system isn't very forgiving if you don't build them well. Ideally someone who is playing a rogue will have good system mastery.
Anyway it's water under the bridge now.
In case they got lost in the shuffle, KingmakerDM: did you get a chance to look over these questions? Also, I sent you a PM about my character build.
Numalar Auritonius wrote:
@KingmakerDM: Some general questions about the campaign:
1. Will you be allowing the Leadership Feat? I don't know about everyone else but when I originally designed Numalar I assumed he would be taking that.
2. Will you be allowing item crafting feats?
3. If so, will you allow customized items? Specifically:
A. Items that are based on existing items that give a numerical bonus (like a cloak of elvenkind for example) but granting a different bonus based on the existing formula, so in the example, a cloak that grants a different bonus, like +3 or +7.
B. Hybrid items that use the formula for combining two or more separate items (for example with slotted items this increases the cost of the secondary ability by 1.5).
3. Are you going to use the Kingdom Building rules from the modules or the rules from Ultimate Campaign? And if you are using UC, will you be using the optional rules as well?
Well, it seemed like he didn't really know what he wanted exactly. I had had concerns that Jarvek would not be an effective character overall - I don't ascribe to traditional Rogue hate (I actually like rogues) but the system isn't very forgiving if you don't build them well. Ideally someone who is playing a rogue will have good system mastery.
Anyway it's water under the bridge now.
In case they got lost in the shuffle, KingmakerDM: did you get a chance to look over these questions? Also, I sent you a PM about my character build.
Numalar Auritonius wrote:
@KingmakerDM: Some general questions about the campaign:
1. Will you be allowing the Leadership Feat? I don't know about everyone else but when I originally designed Numalar I assumed he would be taking that.
2. Will you be allowing item crafting feats?
3. If so, will you allow customized items? Specifically:
A. Items that are based on existing items that give a numerical bonus (like a cloak of elvenkind for example) but granting a different bonus based on the existing formula, so in the example, a cloak that grants a different bonus, like +3 or +7.
B. Hybrid items that use the formula for combining two or more separate items (for example with slotted items this increases the cost of the secondary ability by 1.5).
3. Are you going to use the Kingdom Building rules from the modules or the rules from Ultimate Campaign? And if you are using UC, will you be using the optional rules as well?
Thanks in advance.
Let's see...
1. Yes to the Leadership Feat but as we get closer we might modify it a bit. Any changes would be worked out between us all.
2. Yes to item crafting feats. However, again, we will be working together on approving anything to be crafted.
3. I'll have to think more about the customized items. Initial thought is yes, if there are some good rp reasons for the change. I want you to be working the desire or the concept for the item into your character for some time. I don't want them just waking up and deciding to craft some odd item out of the blue.
4. We will be using the Ultimate Campaign and some Ultimate Rulership adjustments. We will NOT be using the rules for selling magic items as is. We have plenty of time to worry about all that and we'll work it out together.
Just wanted to let you know right away about some of my thoughts on magic. Although I don't shoot for low magic games... In a way I do. Here's what I'm talking about. As we get further along, should you be successful and actually found a kingdom, you will be drawn into events unfolding in Brevoy and other regions. To make that campaign as fun and challenging as possible, you won't be able to just use magical means to eavesdrop on your enemies or just teleport into their bedchambers to assassinate them, etc. So, in that regard, I limit the use of magic in the campaign. But, the good news is that so do the bad guys. You can think of it a couple of ways. One, those high level spells are extremely costly and no one just really has the funds or the desire to spend on them. Or, if you don't like it, basically consider that everyone has set up magical wards to protect them so it won't really do you any good.
So, what I will be looking for is a campaign that requires you to build up contacts, to develop a spy network, bribe contacts, all those fun and interesting things that we actually read about in stories and not just someone casting a spell in the course of one page and dealing with the threat. That's no fun for anyone, least of all me.
The gods are pretty active in my campaign, watching the world and their followers. And they are jealous. So you will see that they will often interfere in your magical machinations if it interferes in something they have planned.
Anyway, just wanted to get that out there from the very beginning. We won't really have to worry about any of that coming up for quite some time.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
1. Cool. Overall Leadership can be used to fill in vacant kingdom government slots without having to think about it too much. But if there are enough well-developed NPCs around then it is less of an issue.
2. Okay. I had some thoughts about that which I will post separately.
3. When you have items that are fairly expensive but provide a big bump to something, it seems to me that it is better to introduce them in stages rather than all of a sudden. Instead of making eyes of the eagle right off the bat I would like to be the kind of character who would say "here, I made these lenses for you which will give +1 to perception." It also makes it possible to have interesting stuff at low level. The hybrid items thing is another one where I sometimes would rather have the abilities of two neat but minor items rather than one great big item.
4. Yeah, I really hate the "revenue by selling magic items" thing so I am glad you are not using that. Is Ultimate Rulership a 3PP thing?
1. Cool. Overall Leadership can be used to fill in vacant kingdom government slots without having to think about it too much. But if there are enough well-developed NPCs around then it is less of an issue.
2. Okay. I had some thoughts about that which I will post separately.
3. When you have items that are fairly expensive but provide a big bump to something, it seems to me that it is better to introduce them in stages rather than all of a sudden. Instead of making eyes of the eagle right off the bat I would like to be the kind of character who would say "here, I made these lenses for you which will give +1 to perception." It also makes it possible to have interesting stuff at low level. The hybrid items thing is another one where I sometimes would rather have the abilities of two neat but minor items rather than one great big item.
4. Yeah, I really hate the "revenue by selling magic items" thing so I am glad you are not using that. Is Ultimate Rulership a 3PP thing?
On Leadership, I've often though about letting you roll up secondary characters when we get to that point who you can use for other things within the kingdom and for side adventures. But, that will depend on what you all want to do and how much time I have. :) But I do anticipate there being plenty of NPC's around to fill kingdom roles. I like NPC's...
I like the way you are thinking about the progressive crafting. That would be worth further exploration.
Ultimate Rulership is a 3PP product. It was put out by Legendary Games. It cleans up some of the stuff from how the rules were put forth in the modules and brings out new buildings and stuff.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
As a gnome I think Numalar would be the type to like to tinker with things like magic items.
If you want to avoid the runaway wealth issue of crafting feats, I came up with this Crafting Variant that does away with crafting feats and discounts but still makes crafting possible. No big deal if it isn't for you; it's just an idea.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
Zokon Santyev wrote:
A warrior type would be awesome to get or a cleric.. we have 1 front liner at the moment.
I would be happy with that too. We don't currently have a STR-based character.
On the other hand, our best Perception in the party is only +8 or +9 I think, and we have nobody with disable device. So I'm cool with a rogue type as well.
I have to agree.. I was looking over the list independently and though Fronar would be a good choice also... Just looked over Gideon too and agree as well.. either would be fine.
Gnome Sorcerer 4 | AC: 15, TAC: 13, FAC: 13, CMD: 11 | HP 7/23 | Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +6 | Init +5 | Perception +9, Sense Motive +2, Darkvision 60' |
Resources:
Spell Slots available: 1st: 5/8 2nd: 3/4 Claws: 8/8 rounds left SLAs: Dancing Lights, Prestidigitation, Flare, Produce Flame
I think Froanar's story presents a bit more of an interesting twist for the way the game will go. But Gideon is a devotee of Erastil and it's always good to have one of those in a Kingmaker game.
