"Necessary Evil" - supervillains save the world!

Game Master ZenFox42

Is ANGEL acceptable, or do I need to go another route? I have another idea if necessary.

Here is VeeSix’s profile alias. I’ll fix it up nice later on.

I've unfortunately been pretty busy and haven't had much time to work on my submission. Add to that, I'm going to be travelling the next two days, and may not have time to work on it then either. Sorry for the delays.

WhtKnt - Angel's concept is fine, but I have some questions about the build :

VeeSix - I'll look over your build and get back to you within a day.

Rigor - no problems, I know life can get in the way sometimes. Get to it when you have some free time.

Well, that didn't take long...

VeeSix - everything looks ok, but.... Please don't hate me, I know I went on and on about having a Toughness near 20, but I'd like to reserve the right to ask you to lower it depending on the Toughness of the other 3 builds.

I'm just trying to avoid the situation we had with the original game, where a blow that would merely Shaken Enkidu might inflict a Wound or two on the other PC's.

In contrast, in the Sandpoint game that some of you are in, the max difference between all four PC's Toughness is just *two points*! The problem with Supers is players are free to choose to put their points wherever they want, so Toughness ends up all over the place, which I have yet to figure out how to deal with in-game (suggestions welcome).

No worries GM, if I need to fix it, I have some ideas where it those points could go.

As far as competing against the Supers, most tropes always have one type of villain that matches well against each different hero. Hulk v. Abomination, Batman v. Arkham Knight, Superman v. Doomsday. Most good villains know the heroes well enough to know their weaknesses. They will use the mooks against the heroes with little to no extra toughness to overwhelm them with numbers and bring the big guns out to take out the tough hero.

In our case, if VeeSix has the most Toughness, his job is to take on the big guys while the rest keep the bad guy crew off his back. Sometimes there may not be a big villain and that’s an easy Quick Encounter fight that we know will not go well for the bad guys anyway. Sometimes, there will be more than one big guy and we would have to tough it out or count our blessings and run away.

Some thoughts to ponder, one GM to another. As a side note, I assume by your comment that you are running Savage Pathfinder. How is that going?

I used to play Pathfinder/D&D for years, but there were many, *many* things I didn't like about the system. SW PF has kept the "flavor" of PF, but uses all the SW mechanics, which I *really* like. And with the Adventure Path telling me what to do, it's a breeze to GM. I add my own little bits of flavor to it just to be a little different.

Thanks for the thoughts on Toughness balance, I'll keep them in mind.

Nice. It is a good system and I am glad that I found Savage Worlds a few years ago. It is fast replacing DnD as my go to. I felt the same way about Rifts as I did Pathfinder, great world, but the system wasn’t the best. Now that Savage Worlds has both, well, that should tell you something.

WhtKnt, you there?

Yes, just been extra busy of late. Give me til Monday, please, and I'll have an updated character posted.

No rush, just checking...

Construct wasn't listed because it was inherent to the racial pick (Android). In case it is not acceptable to use that race, I'll work it up with Construct in there. This is also why she was "lacking" an Edge.

To be honest, I'm not sure how I got the other values, as I was using Savaged.us and just assumed that it was correct. I'm honestly thinking of going a different route anyway, let me see what I can do.

Try this one:

Something is seriously wrong with Savaged.us - it seems to be saying that Super Attribute and Super Edge cost 1 SPP per use, when it is really 2 SPP (I didn't check the other costs). And your SPP totals up to 25 points instead of 40 (while Savaged.us says 30)? Keep in mind, the Super Powers Edge is "free". Also, if the Native Language skill costs you any Skill Points, that's not right either. I think you might have to crack the book and do the Powers selection math yourself, and just use Savaged.us for the non-Super build.

I didn't mind the first PC, it's just that Android is from the Core Rules, and anything in a Setting overrides that, and Construct is what is used in the SPC to achieve that effect. You could maybe take another look at it with the right SPP costs to see if it's still viable.

Are you using the subscription version of it? I noticed that most of my stuff on there is for SWD and not SWADE unless you pay for it. Then again, I could be looking at the wrong thing too.

Subscription version, and I'm using the SWADE rules. Hmmmm. I'll have to look into this further. It didn't charge me for the Superpower Edge or the native language. I'll do the math myself and see what I come up with. Give me a day or so.

Super Attribute and Super Edge cost 2 SPP in the earliest version of the Supers rules, so that doesn't explain it.

WhtKnt - how's the manual build going?

Been exceedingly busy of late, I will try to finish by tomorrow. If not, it may be necessary for you guys to go ahead without me. I don't want to hold things up.

Well, we could go to Gamplay, and I could describe the situation of the world as it is now, how your team is going to operate, and that sort of stuff which could take a few days IRL. The team could even start its first mission, and you wouldn't have to show up until the mission gets underway (in other words, a die roll is needed). I really don't want you to drop out completely because you're (hopefully) just temporarily busy.

Trying to finish off the character and this came to mind: are we using 12 skill points or do we get the extra 3-point kicker for modern campaigns?

Try this. I worked everything by hand, so it should balance. This assumes that we get only 12 points for skills. If we get 15 points, increase her Repair skill to d8 and add Science at d4.

WhtKnt - yea, all the points add up correctly! But I searched my SWADE Core Rules book (which is admittedly 4 years old), and didn't see anything about 15 skill points anywhere. Where are you getting that from?

It's in SWADE p. 140, about three quarters of the way down.

It's in SWADE p. 140, about three quarters of the way down.

I forgot about that. I'd vote in favour. There's never enough skill points to do everything I want to do. I'm a big fan of the Larger than Life rule as well. Not only does it help you out with a non-super-powers related boost, it also gives more opportunities for Role-Playing.

I've just about got my space/time themed character stated out; I'll post the build shortly.

Ah - I searched for "15 points", which isn't used in that section.

ALL - you can have 3 more skill points for your build if you used 12 to start with. Keep in mind, the Driving and Electronics skills would only be used when doing something that you don't do every day, like driving like a madman thru town trying to lose a tail (as opposed to normal day-to-day driving), or configuring a needed piece of electronic equipment (as opposed to just using it). Same with any other "modern" skills. Altho the rules don't say so explicitly, I think the extra skill points should only go towards "modern" skills.

You can take Larger Than Life (an SPC option), *if* you make your Hindrance *really* significant, something that could often be a hassle in your normal or super life.

Since I was stupid and forgot to buy Shooting, could I put my 3 points there to represent targeting software?

I'll add three skill points worth of skills to my characters. I'm still waiting to get a sense of the strengths of the other characters before deciding which concept to go with.

WhtKnt - sure, Shooting firearms (or your own "blasts") could be considered a "modern" skill.

I used them to increase my Fighting and Notice 1 die each.

Okay, I added the Hindrance of Heroic to A.N.G.E.L. and spent the points on Shooting to d8 and Electronics to d4. That finishes her up and she is ready to go when you folks are.

Rigor - just checking in, no rush.

WhtKnt - ANGEL looks ok. Her low Toughness may cause her some problems in combat tho.... But I'm curious - why a d12 to hit vs. Parry for an attack that does only d12+d4 damage (if I figured that right), but only a d8 to hit vs. a 4 (typically) for an attack that does 4d6 damage? You might want to consider swapping some skill points...

Here's my current build for my duplicating teleporter. I'm still moving points around here or there, but he's basically done. He's a science heavy character that can cover most of the Smarts skills, and has Super Science for miracles when needed.

He's an elderly man entering the hero game rather late in life, but a decent guy, so long as you stay off his lawn.

He can be in up to four places at once, and act independently in each of them. He can teleport and open portals, moving things around over short distances, or with concentration, anywhere in the world.

He's hard to hurt, but not particularly strong, so he primarily uses a blaster for offence, though he can teleport enemies into sewers, onto rooftops, or just up into the air when needed. Being resistant enough to damage to take risks, he typically leaves his pistol in overcharge mode in order to put down enemies as quickly as possible. He's relatively weak up close, and relies on his teleportation to keep his distance, and his toughness to weather attacks.

He's a quick thinker, and often has indirect and creative manipulation of situations and of his portals to thank for coming out on top.

Rigor - just checking in, no rush.

WhtKnt - ANGEL looks ok. Her low Toughness may cause her some problems in combat tho.... But I'm curious - why a d12 to hit vs. Parry for an attack that does only d12+d4 damage (if I figured that right), but only a d8 to hit vs. a 4 (typically) for an attack that does 4d6 damage? You might want to consider swapping some skill points...

I agree with Zen on this point. Also, while range attack powers could be pretty powerful in SPCII, in SWADE they are significantly nerfed, and potentially not a great return on investment. For instance, Rashomon is using a standard Pulse Pistol for $500, which also does 4d6 damage (on overcharge setting - acceptable is you don't mind the risk of it blowing up on occasion). Half your starting money vs. a quarter of your Power Points is a big difference in return on investment for something functionally equivalent. Perhaps you could switch the power to a Melee damage attack and take the Thrown Weapon modifier. It would apply to improvised projectiles too, I would imagine, like desks, cars, and dumpsters.

For example:

Melee Attack Str+3d6 (AP2, Charge, Thrown Weapons) [10]

Later on, once the habit becomes ingrained, a small handbag full of lead or tungsten shot bean-bags, would make wonderful non-lethal ammunition, and an easily transported accessory. A few solid tungsten ball bearings in the bag would serve for when lethal force was needed. Of course, with your throwing arm, grenades would be pretty deadly blunt objects too, and that's before they go off...

The other option is to redirect the points into other areas like defense, and just use a blaster.

WhtKnt - or, [Str+3d6, AP 2, Charge] for 8 SPP, and with Martial Artist you'd be doing STR+4d6+d4 (using Charge), WAY better than a 4d6 Ranged Attack. Charge adds a -2 to your Fighting skill, but Martial Artist adds +1, so you'd be at d12-1, which has a 78% chance of rolling a 4 (but you'd be opposing Parry, which varies wildly). Or, drop the Charge, for 7 SPP, doing STR+3d6+d4, still better than 4d6, and no penalty to the skill roll. Either way, you could drop the Ranged Attack, giving you more SPP and Skill Points to use as you wish. Just something else to think about...

Rigor - I'm seeing 16 Skill Points in your build, ignoring the Shooting skill?

Rigor - I'm seeing 16 Skill Points in your build, ignoring the Shooting skill?

Yes, that's right. 12 points standard, 3 points from modern campaign, and 5 points from the Elderly Hindrance, for 20 altogether. He's definitely skills heavy, but it should be helpful overall.

WhtKnt - or, [Str+3d6, AP 2, Charge] for 8 SPP, and with Martial Artist you'd be doing STR+4d6+d4 (using Charge), WAY better than a 4d6 Ranged Attack. Charge adds a -2 to your Fighting skill, but Martial Artist adds +1, so you'd be at d12-1, which has a 78% chance of rolling a 4 (but you'd be opposing Parry, which varies wildly). Or, drop the Charge, for 7 SPP, doing STR+3d6+d4, still better than 4d6, and no penalty to the skill roll. Either way, you could drop the Ranged Attack, giving you more SPP and Skill Points to use as you wish. Just something else to think about...

Another alternative:

With a blaster pistol would give you Shooting d12+6 for 5d6 damage. Probably excessively good targeting unless you see a point to giving people blaster assisted haircuts or drive-by vasectomies. Some of the points in said skills, with a few diverted to defense could also work.

Hmmm. Let me ruminate on this until tomorrow or Sunday.

WhtKnt - I haven't been keeping track of the total SPP you'd end up with left over from focusing on either a Melee or Ranged Attack, but hopefully you'd have some left over to put into Toughness. And FWIW, a d12+6 Shooting would allow you to make targeted shots (like to a foe's head [+4 damage] or weapon [disarm]) at -4 and still have a +2 to the roll, which virtually guarantees success.

Rigor - ah, I missed the Elderly Edge. But now I'm still confused, because your Skill points do total to 20, but you've also got a SPP Skill Bonus of +4 to Shooting (in my previous post, I had subtracted those out, that's why I said 16 Skill Points total), so is your total Shooting d12+2, or is something else going on?

The power is skill bonus, not super skill. His shooting stat would be d8+4. Basicly, it is a different power to the one you are thinking of.

Okay, revision number... I've lost track. The points should add up. Basically, I replaced Martial Arts with Dead Shot, removed the Very Attractive Edge, swapped out some Skill points, and increased Toughness. To accomplish the increase, I removed her laser vision in favor of a blaster and put points into Deadeye and Super Skills.

So, are we all ready to go?

Clebsch73, I know you're dealing with COVID, take your time and let us know which PC you'll be using when you're able.

VeeSix is ready as far as I can tell.

Hey all, don't know what the odds are but i saw the discussion pop up in my feed the other day and had to pop in to say, congratulations on finishing up Necessary evil. 7 years in the running.

Still not sure how I feel about the system, but if ya'll still need/want another player I'd be willing to give it another shot. My life has become significantly less taxing than it was when I dropped out a few years ago(fingers crossed it stays this way).

A.N.G.E.L. is ready, and I'm happy to accept another player, if everyone else is.

Other than some fine tuning, Rashomon is ready too. The more the merrier! Welcome back Hellion!

Pending others chiming in with approval, I can rehash Helion friday evening or so after giving the SWDE and Supers DE a reread. I think she'd probably fit a different group more than the old crew anyway, especially after some power tweaks and such.

Reading back it's a 40point build with Zenfox getting to see drafts and no-way that's op stuff. For balancing and handling potentially game breaking builds, yeah?

Hellion - sure, welcome aboard! Wow, I can't believe it's been 7 years!

You're correct about the specs. I'd just ask you to have a Parry of maybe about 7, a Ranged Attack Target Number (RATN) of maybe about 6, (each up to a couple of points higher). Toughness should be maybe at least 12-15 or so (but not higher than 20).

I'd just like to thank all those who stuck with me for 7 years. I know I don't go into a lot of verbose, detailed descriptions of things, and my combats tend to be simple attack/counter-attack all with the same kind of enemies per combat.

Due to an accident about 9 years ago, I lost a lot of my mental creativity, hence the lack of descriptiveness. And because my memory has always been really bad, I don't use a lot of SW's combat options because it's a *LOT* to keep track of (this person is Vulnerable [and its consequences], this person is Entangled [and its consequences], etc.) in PbP games (due to the IRL long times between posts). And the enemies have all been the same so I don't have to keep track of different stats.

But, in a different game that I just recently took over a few months ago, I've had to come up with a system to keep track of all those things, so I'm hoping I can apply that here to make the combats more varied and interesting. And I'm starting to use ChatGPT to provide me with more descriptive...er...descriptions of the scenes.

I'll look over everyone's character and make a decision as soon as I can. I'm struggling a bit to keep up with my workload and keep up with my PBP games at the moment. I'm still not quite over the COVID, which limits my time a bit as well.

Just got the updated super companion book today, I'll look to update/rework Hellion and should hopefully have something by Saturday(kind of forgot my irl warhammer game woops).