I know in SWADE Supers, you can spend a Benny to do that, but I didn't see anything like that in this version. That and I'm out of Bennies.
Paradigm - which specific game rule in SWADE SPC are you talking about?
Looking over SWADE and SWADE SPC, I've got a few ideas :
SWADE's Creative Combat - you make a Test (an opposed attack roll against your opponent), and on a Raise you roll on a table to make something extra special happen. But many of Champion's Attributes are pretty high, so getting a Raise might be hard.
SWADE SPC's Power Stunts - you spend a Benny, and can do various things besides a straight attack, but the most relevant one here is : all your damage dice change from d6's to d10's.
Y'all can peruse the other Power Stunts (p. 30) for more ideas...
That's what I was thinking of, the Power Stunt. It's kind of a wide open avenue in which the GM can allow almost anything, if it's cool.
Yes, they do. I'll need to get a copy of SWADE super powers; I still haven't seen it.
I asked about Power Stunting once, as it is intrinsic to comics, and they use it in Mutants and Masterminds. They didn't have it in Deluxe, so it is a welcome edition.
The all out attack option is still in Swade Supers. Spend a Benny for 1d10 damage dice. Now that we have refreshed Bennies, that's probably what I will do next round. You can also Push a power up five more points or Respec one as needed, but I think those were also previously available. There are other options, but i think these ones are what we need in this battle. You can also combine effects in the same action, Respec and Push for example, but each one costs a Benny.
Are we considering a change over to SWADE entirely, or just taking a few ideas from it here and there?
Found a free copy on Anyflip.
It looks pretty good overall! No immediate red-flags...
Just using a SWADE SPC mechanic to increase your damage.
This battle is important, so I'm going to start getting picky here.
Paradigm, which Super Power are you using to create the barrier? And how many SPP are you putting into it?
Your +2 Super Attribute boost costs 4 SPP.
Your +4 Force Field to the team using Force Control with Force Field would cost 8 SPP (for the power), +3 for the Force Field modifier, and cover 4 people ( = your level in the power), so 11 SPP. Excluding Doxis, you can cover everyone in the team and the King.
Your "entangle" of Champion costs 6 SPP.
But, your current character sheet says you have only 4 levels of Super Sorcery, allowing you 8 SPP total. Is this out-of-date? I know I've given out more SPP over time, have you been applying them?
I will double check the math, as I keep going back and forth between the three versions of Necessary Evil when I work the stats up. I have stayed away from the new SWADE SPC, but I’ll look into it as soon as I get a chance.
Looks like you might be right about some of that. Power went to my head and all that. I believe we all have a total of 36 power points, but it is possible I missed some, but as far as I can tell, Paradigm is up to date. However I noticed a difference in what the original NE says is the cost for SuperSorcery v. SWEX NE: It seems I may not have the levels I think I do. It seems that each version of SuperSorcery has changed a bit since the original one. I will have to do some more digging when I have time, but I will need you clarification on which set of powers we are going with from which book and also how many SPP we should have, then I will update Paradigm.
The following is based on SWEX NE:
Super Skill is 1 SPP per 2 skill points. , Since it only went up two die types, that should only cost me 1SPP
The force field was based on the Deflection power (4SPP) for a -4 to all ranged attacks, however the extra targets would bring it over my limit, so it probably would have failed except for this : ‘Characters with SuperSorcery can give themselves any power in this book as a spell, including any modifiers, up to their level in SuperSorcery. Multiple Targets being a Modifier, it doesn’t add to the cost.
The entangling of Champion should have been rolled with my separate Telekinesis power, I used Super Sorcery to roll, as there is no Telekinesis roll.
The new wall should be Force Control (Level 4 wall, Strength d12+1, but since I am using above my ability already with other powers activated, I had to roll greater than 4 on the SuperSorcery roll for the wall, which I did not, so I will have to roll a Backlash anyway. I will do that in game.
We've always been using the SWD SPC, 2nd edition (check my first post in Recruitment). I only have a "changes" PDF, so there's no copyright date on it. I believe PEG offered it for free back in the day, so it should be available on the web for free, somewhere. Try Googling
Super Powers Companion (Second Edition) Changes
and see what you get.
I found a "recent" (March this year) post I made about max SPP per power, citing the 1/3 of total power, and said "so let's make the per power cap 12 SPP", indicating that the current total power is in fact 36 SPP.
That's 6 levels of Super Sorcery, so 6 SPP total to put into other powers.
I may have been using the SWADE SPC in my previous post, but I don't have time right now to go back over all the numbers. <short time passes> No, Super Sorcery is *completely* different in SWADE. I guess my math was off in my previous post about how many sorcery SPP you get from putting regular SPP into it. Oh, no, now I see - I misunderstood your notation : you put 8 SPP into SS, giving you 4 ranks, and so 4 SPP to put into other Powers.
I'm hesitant to suggest this this far into the game, but maybe you could allocate the other 24 SPP into individual Powers? I know you've specified some Powers in your character sheet, but again, don't have time to look at that today.
I’ve spent all my points, but for some reason I had it marked that our max was 9 SPP per power instead of 12. I have two lists in my sheet, my powers list and in spoilers, my commonly used SuperSorcery powers. I put a note in ther to remind myself of the book we use, so as to not mess them up next time. Either way, it sounds like Paradigm is out of the fight, as I assume that powers means all powers and not just SuperSorcery.,
Ok, so to recap :
Your +2 Super Attribute boost costs 4 SPP. Since it's not in your "static" Powers list, it must have been from Super Sorcery (SS).
You have a "static" Force Field Power, but it's limited to you - there is no applies-to-every-Power "affect others" Modifier. So your +4 Force Field to the team using Force Control with Force Field would cost 8 SPP (for the power), +3 for the Force Field modifier, and cover 4 people ( = your level in the power), so 11 SPP. Since this exceeds the number of SPP in your Super Sorcery, it's not possible.
Your "entangle" of Champion costs 6 SPP. Since this exceeds the number of SPP in your Super Sorcery, it's not possible.
But you still have your "static" Powers, which don't cost SPP to use or maintain.
I'm going to give you an option - remove the "static" Invisibility (which I can't recall you ever using), and put those 4 SPP into SS. If you drop your Super Attribute Boost, you'd just be able to Entangle Champion.
P.S. - please update your on-line character sheet to "Super Sorcery(8 SPP = Lvl 4, 4 SPP available)". Unless you drop Invisibility, then "Super Sorcery(12 SPP = Lvl 6, 6 SPP available)".
Please let me know if you agree with this analysis, and whether or not you want to take the option, thanks!
Re: Super Attribute. I boosted my Super Sorcery Skill, which uses the Super Skill power at 1SPP per increase. I increased it 2 dice, so it should only cost 2SPP, leaving me with 2 remaining.
My protection of others was way over my total limit, you are right and that is on me, as I didn’t take into account the costs for multiple people. Even with the Deflection power, it would still cost too much. Overcharging wouldn’t cover it either, but I also read in this version, there is no overcharge.
Entangling champion was a use of my Telekinesis power, which is as you call it, “static”, not technically SuperSorcery. I have to roll its Strength (d12) v. his Spirit. I can Reroll that if you want. Or, if you want to call it grappling, I will have to roll Fighting.
I do agree though that I should boost SuperSorcery to Level 6 and remove invisibility. I don’t use it often enough to warrant a full power with it. If you’re still willing, I’ll change that right away.
Ok, I looked at Super Attribute, when I should have been looking at Super Skill. No problem.
Sure, move the SPP from Invisibility to Super Sorcery.
Regarding the entangle, the text in your post cited "Force Control" (which is a Super Power, and not one in your "static" list), and its description explicitly mentions binding a target. TK only talks about moving or throwing things, and specifically says about living creatures they can be moved, smashed into something, or dropped, it does not mention "binding" or entangling.
So, you can drop your Super Sorcery skill boost, and put all 6 points into Force Control as a Super Sorcery effect. But if you drop the skill boost, you'll have to re-roll everything again.
Or, you can keep the skill boost, but put only 4 points into Force Control, so you'll have to re-roll just the Damage.
Ok, I looked at Super Attribute, when I should have been looking at Super Skill. No problem.
Sure, move the SPP from Invisibility to Super Sorcery.
Regarding the entangle, the text in your post cited "Force Control" (which is a Super Power, and not one in your "static" list), and its description explicitly mentions binding a target. TK only talks about moving or throwing things, and specifically says about living creatures they can be moved, smashed into something, or dropped, it does not mention "binding" or entangling.
So, you can drop your Super Sorcery skill boost, and put all 6 points into Force Control as a Super Sorcery effect. But if you drop the skill boost, you'll have to re-roll everything again.
Or, you can keep the skill boost, but put only 4 points into Force Control, so you'll have to re-roll just the Damage.
I would think that holding someone, or stopping them moving, would be the same as moving them against their will. And as it allows a Spirit save, it is not automatic. Or, at least, since TK can move someone 2d6" per action, he should be able to slow Champion's flight by the same amount.
Good point. TK can slow Champion's speed without "binding" him. But that just means he reaches you a little later (he's moving quite fast, 2d6" may not make that much difference).
Correction to my previous post : Paradigm would not be re-rolling damage, but "strength of the entangle".
Okay, so I edited my character sheet so that I now have SuperSorcery at Level 6 and my Invisibility is now just a spell. I will Reroll the TK strength to keep trying to push Champion back in game.
Just a heads-up: my wife is having a hip replacement Friday, so for the next six weeks, she is going to be in recovery mode and I will be handling the house. If I'm late with posts, please be forgiving.
Ouch, sorry to hear that! Take your time. Since we're in combat, is it ok if I bot you if several days go by without an action post?
Absolutely!
In case anyone's interested, a new Recruitment is up for a Rise of the Runelords game using the new Pathfinder for Savage Worlds rule set (I'm not the GM)...
There's a recruitment for a Savage Worlds RIFTS game...in Atlantis! I'm not the GM.
Click HERE.
If you have SWADE RIFTS, you only need one other manual, $10 in PDF form. It has new races and Frameworks, but I'm not really sure you'd even need it if you go with SWADE RIFTS races and Frameworks.
I am going to be out of town from tomorrow until November 16 (I'm going to Walt Disney World). Please bot me as necessary. If time permits (ha!), I will try to check in and make a post.
Full disclosure : since this combat has taken so long IRL, I came up with a cheat sheet of the creatures' relevant combat stats, where I wrote down their Parry. With my bad memory, I now have no idea if I might have used their Parry as the target number for some of your Ranged attacks in the past. But I'm sticking with a TN of 4 from now on (even tho, being enhanced, it probably should have been a little higher, but considering the number of attacks you've made against them, that's probably too big of a ret-con to make).
I have a convention I am assisting in running in two weeks, so my responses will be slow or perhaps non-existent until March 4. Please forgive delays.
Ok, here's my problem : altho it was a very rare/lucky roll, Enkidu's damage of 56 blows thru any reasonable Toughness. I had been thinking of a Toughness around 20-25, but even at 25 a 56 inflicts 7 Wounds.
Now, Enkidu deserves to get some kind of reward for his exceptional roll, but I don't want the final, epic battle of the game to be done in one round(!).
<...time passes...> I was going to ask for ideas, but after writing some options I've since deleted, I think I've come up with a possible solution : an ablative armor shield. It starts out really high (like, pulling a number out of thin air, 100), but is reduced by the damage it absorbs. That allows Enkidu the satisfaction of halving his armor in one blow, and allows smaller hits made by Flare and Paradigm to also have some effect in battle, until you get down to his "natural" Toughness.
Is anyone not happy with this solution?
When I had the roll, I had the same thought, this is a ridiculous number of Aces, I hope it doesn't one shot the villain. Having it just kill him due to random chance would be extremely anticlimactic, so I am fine with whatever solution.
One option would be to make it the suit that gets destroyed, not the occupant, kind of like the Robot vs. Power Armour difference in Rifts. In Rifts, this kind of roll would kill a guy in power Armour, but only destroy the robot a guy was piloting. So you could just have him climb out of the wrecked suit, give him some more impressive in-person powers that perhaps originally planned, and then start phase II of the fight.
I'm good with the original solution or with Enkidu's option.
I'm taking a short vacation without Internet access from Wednesday, 5 June until 10 June, and will be unavailable during that time.
I like Enkidu’s idea because it gives the boss phases, like we killed the wall, Phase 1. Enkidu destroyed his suit, Phase II, etc. That way it feels like we are making progress, but then we didn’t take him out in one shot.
I’m going to be gone the next few days and I don’t usually post on weekends. I should be back by Monday though!
Enkidu - did you know your name is the name of a main character in the ancient story of Gilgamesh?
Yes, the Beast man. Why do you think I chose it? Enkidu's common form (public persona) is usually that of a beast man (bear stats but in hairy wild man shape).
I like the Epic of Gilgamesh (I did a minor in classics in uni), and the name seemed like it suited.
Enkidu is supposed to be a nerdy kid who spent most of his youth in hospital beds, often just reading, so an unstoppable Wildman would have appealed to him.
I caught that early on and made the connection. Very well thought!
"Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra"
I think that episode of TNG is where I first heard the story when I was a kid. I went and looked up the nest of the story soon after. My daughter loves mythology too, and I have a graphic novel version of the Epic that has been sitting in my Amazon wishlist for her for a long while as well.
That is one of my favorite TNG episodes because of how first contact was handled. The process might be very similar if we ever met a friendly alien race.
Enkidu - I agree with you about why Shapeshift got to be so powerful (it was the one hole I didn't know needed plugging), but I still think providing boundaries on starting-PCs is a good idea, just so that no one becomes super-(sorry, had to say it)unbalanced.
But, if you all consent to my looking at your first drafts and saying "No, this specific thing here is overpowered", I'd be willing to dispense with those rules. Well, almost all of them.
And, I'm interested in starting you all at 40 SPP - thoughts?
And, let's do the new game in SWADE. I assume everyone has the Core Rules, but you'll also need the SWADE Super Powers Companion (maybe $10 in PDF). Some Powers have been tweaked significantly, so it'd be best to double-check the current description of any Powers you're thinking of having.
Sounds good. 40pp is in between the Level II (Streetlevel/New Heroes) and the Level III (Four Colour/Established Heroes) level. It would give us a Power Level max of 13 (which is a little bit of an awkward number, but manageable).
Should there be a time skip involved here to allow for some backstory elements, or do we want to pick up in real time? Did the V'sori withdraw a year ago, or did their leadership disappear yesterday, leaving Chaos?
Following on that question is the other of should we continue in this forum, or start a fresh one. And, should we try to recruit new players?
I like most of the changes in SWADE, though there are some that I dislike as well. Super Tech and Super Sorcery now require a Power Stunt any time they want to use them, so Variable powers are harder to come by. However, they've added a Power Stunt mechanic which was sorely needed, so anyone can now improvise a new effect with a power they already have. Shape Change is tweaked a little, but functionally unchanged. I can wholeheartedly say I am very bored of that power and wont be touching it.
I like some adaptability/variability in my characters, but the variable powers have been nerfed in SWADE, so my first thought for a character is some sort of Power-Suit character, with different suits intended for different roles (a heavy suit, a stealth suit, a battlefield control suit, etc.). Those can be built as a Power Set in the SWADE Rules. I'm trying to think of interesting variations on the theme he could use instead of being a typical Iron Man rip off. Maybe a mystic that makes different golems, or a psychic that creates astral projections. I'll sit on it and see if I can't come up with an interesting concept. The Psychic idea has potential; I had a character like that in Mutants and Masterminds once; an disabled morbidly obese man, but with a heart of gold, who truly wanted to be a hero. His concept was that if he imagined it strongly enough, he could project super-powered Avatars that appeared real and could interact with the world.
I remember I also had an idea for a character that was an extra dimensional being that discovered a device that allowed himself to project himself into the game world. He would start out convinced that our world was a video game simulation. The device would allow him to chose a role each time he logged on, so he could choose to play as The Tank, The Blaster, The Ghost, etc each time he "logged on."
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I am kicking around two possibilities:
An android who is only a few months old and her creator was killed before he could teach her, so she is not very wise in the ways of the world. She is very strong and fairly tough, basically a female Data but with far less experience.
Boiling Point, a young woman who was involved in a crash with a tanker truck carrying gasoline and one carrying liquid nitrogen. Drenched in both liquids, her latent metagene activated and gave her the ability to project flame or streams of water, as well as to sheath her body in flame and fly.
What do you folks think?
I've always liked Android characters. A while back I stated one up as a potential replacement for Enkidu. I dropped the idea after discovering I had made him capable of inflicting twice as much damage per round as Enkidu, and with a ranged weapon at that. It didn't really help reduce the OP problem.
I think I had a character similar to the second idea way back in my teens. I called him Snowfire, and similarly shot blasts of either freezing cold or flames. I like the image, but the origin doesn't have the usual logical outgrowth of super hero origins... what is her power? To produce and expel fluids? That might be interesting, especially if she has to wear igniters on her wrists to turn the jets of bio-deisel into flame throwers (which could lead to a quirk when captured, and desperately needing to generate a spark). Or perhaps temperature control, where she expels H20, but can do it as shards of ice, liquid water, boiling jets of steam, or perhaps even ionized plasma. Steam jets have the advantage of rarely starting secondary fires or causing property damage. She can go full on plasma when needed to damage robots and vehicles. I could also see possibilities for area effect powers, like remotely boiling off the water in someone's coffee thermos, or even throwing an iceball, and then converting it to steam from the inside, creating an ice-shard grenade.
The simpler version of a power, but maintaining a single theme would be temperature control. Freeze blasts or flames, but no physical matter involved.
That's my take anyway.
Rigor - the android you statted out - was that in SWD or SWADE Supers? Either way, I'd caution WhtKnt about creating an OP android PC if you could do it.
I was thinking of starting the new game maybe a month after the Overmind's defeat. That would give the V'sori who are leaving a chance to do so, and those that decide to stay some time to begin to consolidate their power.
The only two things in SWADE Supers I'd like to say are not available are the Mind Control Power and The Best There Is Edge. Everyone should use some of their SPP to boost their Parry and Toughness up to *about* 10 and 20, respectively. It would also be a good idea to increase your RATN up to about 10 as well. But, please don't go too high above these values, either (you could get +26 Armor with the 13 SPP limit). Offhand, I don't know how many SPP that would take from your 40, but I'll look at that soon.
I don't have an opinion about starting a new Paizo game or staying in this one.
I was wondering what you all would think about opening Recruitment again, I'm open to it if y'all are.
Bloodmoon - thoughts?
I would like to transition to SWADE, even though the way they handled Super Sorcery is a bit iffy to me, since you have to spend a Benny every time you want to do something different from your basic powers. Which is why I was thinking of playing a Paragon type character. Someone the V’Sori tried to make into the perfect superhuman replicant, but then when Overmind fell, so did the project and now he has escaped the lab and doesn’t know where to go next. I was planning on giving him super strength, super speed and flight, along with some traits to get those stats you mentioned up.
As for Paradigm, he has a lot of work to do and would probably help Enkidu with his research, possibly taking him on as an apprentice scientist once he is healed as well. He would also want to recruit Doxy too. Becoming the ultimate BBEG, I could see that, once his powers have increased, but it would be ala Mr. Freeze, where all of his evil schemes have to do with increasing his knowledge and power for research purposes. To save Enkidu and then whoever he deemed worthy of his time.
We could always use another team member, so I’m up for adding one more.
Rigor - the android you statted out - was that in SWD or SWADE Supers? Either way, I'd caution WhtKnt about creating an OP android PC if you could do it.
It was in SWD. I think when SWADE Supers came out I checked to see if the build would work in SWADE should a game ever some along and saw that it wouldn't. One thing in SWADE is that direct damage abilities seem to be much more limited. In SWD you could increase your d6 damage abilities to d8s or d10s with add ons, but that doesn't exist in SWADE except as a power stunt.
I could see right off it would have been even more disruptive than Enkidu, so I abandoned the build. I still like the concept and backstory I had for him, and the same OP exploits don't exist in SWADE, but it would be hard to tweak to a heroic style of game. He was more of a combat robot than an android as well.
The only two things in SWADE Supers I'd like to say are not available are the Mind Control Power and The Best There Is Edge. Everyone should use some of their SPP to boost their Parry and Toughness up to *about* 10 and 20, respectively. It would also be a good idea to increase your RATN up to about 10 as well. But, please don't go too high above these values, either (you could get +26 Armor with the 13 SPP limit). Offhand, I don't know how many SPP that would take from your 40, but I'll look at that soon.
I think Toughness is 1pp/level and Armour is 1pp/2 levels. The combined expenditure can't be beyond the power limit (13 in this case). I think if somebody wants to be the Hulk or the Thing type of tank, maxing it out is fine, but it should be thematically appropriate.
Agreed with Mind Control; hard to excuse for a hero anyway. The Best There Is I have never seen in action. Given that it requires an edge, and still uses up all the points you put into the power, I'm not sure it is the issue some think it might be, but never having seen it used, I can't be sure. I prefer generalists to one trick ponies, so I'm not sure I would use it anyway.
As for Paradigm, he has a lot of work to do and would probably help Enkidu with his research, possibly taking him on as an apprentice scientist once he is healed as well. He would also want to recruit Doxy too. Becoming the ultimate BBEG, I could see that, once his powers have increased, but it would be ala Mr. Freeze, where all of his evil schemes have to do with increasing his knowledge and power for research purposes. To save Enkidu and then whoever he deemed worthy of his time.
Given the way things played out on that battlemoon when Paradigm tried to kill Midos, I think Enkidu is convinced that Paradigm is a megalomaniac and a psychopath. He'd be very unlikely to trust him, even for medical help, as he would suspect Paradigm would be the type to try ensure loyalty, by installing a control device during surgery, encoding an essential syrum only paradigm can provide into the gene therapy, etc.
Midos also presents a much better opportunity. He has access to far greater resources, Atlantean technology is cutting edge, not to mention they also have magic. Enkidu will almost certainly attempt to get closer with the Atlanteans, and given the opportunity for pardon, will probably go straight.
Toughness and Parry and RATN (oh my!)
Toughness
With all Armor, you could boost your Toughnesss by 26, up to maybe 32 total (assuming a d8 Vigor). But the bad guys would start using AP weapons :).
With all Toughness, you could boost your Toughness by 13, up to maybe 19 total.
The total points you put into Armor and Toughness cannot exceed 13 (RAW).
Unfortunately, Force Field reduces incoming damage by 1, which is equivalent to increasing Toughness by 1, and it’s not included in the total points limitation. And altho it drops if you're Shaken or Stunned, apparently you can just re-activate it as soon as you're not Shaken, no roll needed. So I would like to change the rule to :
The total points you put into Armor, Toughness, and Force Field cannot exceed 13.
Parry
With Parry, you can boost your Parry by 5 max, or about 11 to 13 total (Fighting d8 to d12).
RATN
With Dodge, you can boost your RATN by 5, or 9 total. It is capped to 10 if you use "other abilities" (Edges) to augment it.
- Edges can increase Toughness, Parry, and RATN by a point or two.
- You can boost Toughness and Parry by increasing your Vigor and Fighting with Super Attribute, but it’s expensive : +1 for 2-4 SPP.
So, I would recommend maxing out Parry and Dodge. If you want to keep it simple, just take 13 points of Toughness. Unfortunately, that's 23 out of 40 of your SPP, but I think these values are needed to survive super-combat. You can shave a SPP or two off a Power if your Attributes are high enough, and trade-off *some* Toughness for Armor, and maybe get it down to 18-20 SPP.
Thoughts?
Also, one of three of you has said they'd like to open Recruitment (others have just speculated about it).
If you don't mind, please let me know whether you're for or against opening Recruitment if you haven't already, thanks!
I can see taking those maximums for my Paragon, as he is meant to be tough and then spend the rest on Super Strength and other minor abilities. I will play around with the numbers later, but my question is, are you meaning that total for Armor, Toughness and Force Field can’t be more than 13 or is that for each one? I’ll probably just use Toughness, but we’ll see.