Heh. I can picture that.
Pity for him, he's in a backwater town, nobody's going to miss him.
Niles that's why Silas wants to force him to personally give all the money away.
Ok. Just bought and took about 1.5 hours at work reading Hell's Bright Shadow.
1) It's better than I thought at first glance.
2) I need to wait for at least Book 2 before running it
3) I am 100% running it on these boards. It looks VERY pbp friendly. (Short Dungeons, alot of RP stuff, most fights look avoidable)
4) An All Milani focused or ALL Bard/Rogue party is certainly doable...
4) An All Milani focused or ALL Bard/Rogue party is certainly doable...
Okay. I like the Milani idea, but I think we should have more classes than that even if it would get the job done ;)
I've skimmed through the Player's Guide already. I was interested in playing a Community Guardian halfling, but Í'm finding it hard to find a good campaign trait for that.
Depending on how we go through the rebellion itself, I might pick another class and archetype though.
Never fear! I'll not make you guys all play rogues and bards.
re:Halflings They are very mistreated in Cheliax and a "free" halfling in Kintargo would have LOTS of reasons to oppose the Thrune takeover of the city. Also, the Bellflower network plays a part in book 1!
This one seems like it might fit
sum of its parts, but your knack for managing groups has
always pushed you to the front of any operation you’ve
found yourself a part of. You excel in the role of manager. You treat your Charisma score as if it were 14 (or 2 points higher than
its actual score if your actual Charisma is already 14 or higher) for the purposes of determining how many teams you can manage in the rebellion, and for the purposes of determining the bonus you add to your managed teams’ actions. In addition, you gain a +1 trait bonus to your Leadership score if you take the Leadership feat.
True, but somehow I envision this more as a paladin-like crusader than an oracle. Though there are different kinds of leaders of course.
Heh, I saw the trait as more of a way a fighter type can get a bonus to leadership without having to invest in CHA score.
TBH, I have no clue what a "Communit Guardian" is...seemed like a fighter archetype, I'm not a big fan of Oracles. Divine classes that don't follow gods seems wrong to me.
I always picture Oracles as guys who were mugged by gods in an alley, so they won't be getting the gods completely out of their lives.
Clerics are ones who walked up to the front door of the god and asked to sign up :)
Clerics have to worship the gods that empower them, Oracles don't...but often do anyway if they know what's good for em ;)
Also the sheer adaptability of Clerics in their spells imho is much better than that of Oracles.
Need a healing spell got it, need some obscure divination wait a day and got that too.
Until Gilmork, I'd only ever seen Oracles played by people who wanted to maximize Charisma's effectiveness. So Paladin/Oracle with the feat that gives CHA to Init.
In fact when I think of Gilmork, I think more of a Druid or ranger than I do Oracle....he seems less divine and more in tune with Nature.
Well, I like oracles myself. They're great for those who want the divine equivalent of sorcerers , and the classic 'pays a price for godly interaction angle' (Be it struck lame, or blind etc) is a great visual and character hook to me :)
And their revelations help offset the lack of 'any spell you want to pray for '
I'd say Gilmork has proven his player can both make it work and not abuse it
And to be fair, Hell's Rebels is an AP where high charisma classes are called on.
I agree, I like Gilmork's character and I wish I would've brought more nature stuff into the story for him. I always feel like he is being left out of things.
I think as long as you don't have a negative CHA score you would be fine, I've looked into a few homebrew ways of letting everyone into "Diplomacy" even those that don't have it as a "skill"
Ex: If someone has Profession Skill, letting that substitute as "diplomacy" with others of that Profession. Same with "Craft" letting you influence other artisans.
Re all bard/rogue, I don't want to force people to play something they won't enjoy. Still it might be interesting to all have points in stealth at the very least.
Not decided what I'd want to play yet (got at least four ideas). Perhaps it's best everyone who has a firm idea says so and I (and anyone else undecided) can fill in the gaps?
Thanks Lucanor/Ridge.
Indeed, Gilmork is more like a ranger or druid, but I couldn't resist the wolf-scarred curse with the town just having been attacked by werewolves.
The Community Guardian (an Oracle archetype for Halflings) is a buffer at first levels and I might be the healer second, depending on if you'd allow a third party curse:
At 5th level, you gain a mercy, as the paladin ability.
At 10th level, you gain a second mercy, and can exchange your first mercy for a different one.
At 15th level, you gain a third mercy, and can exchange one of your existing mercies for a different one.
I like the versatility of an Oracle or Sorcerer to have an appropriate spell at hand without having to prepare it. That said, I beleive there are options for a wizard or cleric to leave open slots and fill them in after a certain amount of time of prayer or study. Thereby if you need a specific spell out of combat, you have a way as a prepared caster as well.
Edit: Don't worry about it Niles, when we get back into the Woods for the next part, Gilmork can shine again.
Well, I was going to go either bard or sorcerer halfling, but I don't want to double up on class so if someone else wants to play either of those I would play the other (or a third option entirely if both were taken). Sorcerers aren't skill heavy, but I'm sure he would be useful in other ways.
I don't really want to play the rogue /stealth guy at all on this one. I've been terrible some months about posting quickly, and if you're going to be the regular sneak of the party you probably need to be better than I have been with Luc to scout ahead etc
So Rogue, Ranger (urban or otherwise) are definitely out for me.
I want to do cleric.
re:Community Guardian Just took a look at it and it seems perfectly suited to have the Natural Born Leader trait. I can see a Halfling character that is the "Community Organizer" and rabble rouser of the halfling community in Kintargo. It would also be awesome if he were addicted to mint tea.
re:Merciful Curse That doesn't seem like a "curse" at all. What is the downside???? It would be much more balanced if you had to heal enemies that were adjacent to you.
re:Skill points There is always the favored class bonus.
I like the Halfling Trait that bumps up aid anothers to +4 from +2. They are just so helpful!
The downside of the merciful curse is waylaying your resources to wounded non-enemies you come across. It could cost you your lay on hands, healing magics, and other resources. Though if you might have a good heal skill you might better run a hospital instead.
And yes, Mint Tea would be excellent for him ^^ Those of House Thrune be damned, it's good tea I tell you.
Unchained background skills help round out clerics.
Okay, Jaxom is definitely set on a cleric. Good to know.
While the curse is up for debate, Gilmork wants to play a halfling community guardian oracle. Good to know.
Looks like we'll have raw divine power down
But, if you are playing a good aligned character wouldn't you already help those who are hurt?
A better downside would be either remove "nonenemy" from the description OR make the oracle incapable of dealing anything other than nonlethal damage with both spells AND melee/ranged attacks.
Then you really are cursed with being merciful.
re:Unchained Skills. I like them and I'll probably put it to a vote on whether to allow them.
I kind of want to be a cleric of Sarenrae. She is my favorite, but Milani is up there too. Both seem to have good tie-ins with this city.
My first choice would be to go cleric/exalted of Sarenrae (Fire and Glory). I like her exalted's ability to improve their channeling. Lot's of people claim channeling is awful, but I have always thought it seemed cool. My second choice would to be to do the same for Milani (Liberation and Protection (Defense)).
Lord Mayor Oberon actually has a nice ring to it ;)
I actually agree. Especially since fey could come pouring out of the First World to vote. Either Andoran respects the Vale's status or be prepared for a demographic sea change.
I see where you are going with that idea, but the usual expectation is outside of the first world (where the fae rule supreme) they are diminished.
Silas is being a little provocative right now, but I think he has a point.
I think Silas' position is very reasonable coming from a colonialist perspective. Jaxom, for his part, is not convinced that those who come to conquer always leave victorious. And to assume inevitability of defeat is just kind of offensive to him.
Me, personally, I don't believe that natives are always doomed. The unfortunate and bloody history of American genocide need not be a necessary one. It would be kinda sad if we couldn't imagine different outcomes especially in our fantasies.
Well Lady Cirthana was an ally, so hopefully Luc will get as good a use of Speak with Dead as possible
OOG, I agree Hectkor that there is something kind of Sith-esque about Jaxom at the moment. With three caveats.
1. Jaxom is quite good at keeping the depth of his distaste for mortals a secret. Just because as a player you are aware of some of his inner monologue -- to improve the story -- doesn't mean Hecktor has jedi level empathy. :-)
2. Jaxom isn't entirely wrong. He represents the power that has the legitimate claim to these lands. It's a sign of hubris that Andoran claims the Vale regardless of the original inhabitants.
3. Jaxom isn't doing anything evil. He just isn't going out of his way to help people who represent the possibility of destruction for his land. He wants them gone. He thinks they are enemy combatants. That makes him at war. Not evil.
One thing to add. Silas is not Andoran. He admires the way they threw off the Chelaxian chains, but he's disgusted by the corruption. On the other hand he's a realist in that he'll work with what tools he has. If greed is what saves the forest, that's a win right?
doesn't mean Hecktor has jedi level empathy. :-)
I play sith over the goody 2 shoes any time.
Often CN (if vigilante style/ good meant with merciless means)or just NE, as with Star Wars the old Republic.
Jaxom is agnostic on means as long as they don't cause more trouble than the problem they ostensibly solve.
His major objection to Silas' plan that he won't give way on is to affirm the claim that Andoran has any legitimate right to the Vale.
His minor objection is that by using greed as the goad it encourages future incursions. This slice of pie may be lovely, but the whole pie would be better.
That's why he thinks making them think it is too costly is better: to discourage them from coming back for the whole pie.
Silas will find Jaxom to be very much on board with his "realism" as long as such pragmatism doesn't lead to future chains. Which is why he is annoyed by the outcome of Silas' raise the bad guy plan, because it just brought more trouble to the Vale. In his mind, Silas' plans don't have a good track record of actually solving the real problem.
The sad thing is that Jaxom really wants to help you guys -- he thinks it is fun -- but Hecktor and Silas' cavalier attitude -- that perhaps uncharitably comes off to him -- as "help us, but we don't actually understand or care about your issues" -- rubs him a bit raw.
Actually it was Luc's idea to raise Payday. Buut it was so out there, I had to run with it. I mean seriously, wow! Talk about a plot twist.
Fair. Jaxom generally views Silas as the "leader" of the noble heroes, and he was experiencing some culture shock at the time. It stuck in his mind as Silas' plan because Silas did the heavy lifting.
Cavelier attitude? Haha.....it's practicality in trying to appease both sides.
One would need to understand both sides in order to know what would appease them.
But that's just Jaxom's opinion. I don't want you guys to think I'm trying to cause problems oog. :-)
Well, Lucanor is an Andoran, and 70% proud of his country. But he's trying to appease a lot of different masters... Iomedae is primary , but she's also pretty quiet. His church is another, but he's not happy with some of it's hiearchy. Mostly he's trying to help the people of the Hollow, but not for short term "chop the trees down" but in longer term viable ways... but since the Hollow has been fighting him every step of the way about it, he's frustrated. So he actually feels for Jaxom knowing how hard it can be to constantly put your ideals on a back burner in the name of the practical
That said, if the fay attack the town, he'll defend the people
Luc do you want to play a bard this time? I think a Chelish Diva would be awesome.
If so I'll probably play a full bab martial. Toss up between urban barbarian/ranger/slayer and a warpriest. Obviously a Milani follwer with social skills and a side of stealth.
I quite like the idea of Eldritch Heritage too.
Eldritch Heritage is often very nice, one of my favorite Feats when playing a Cha-based character. Makes an half-elf Skill Focus sometimes even better.
Only the willing can be returned to life. So, you could always try and if she returns then she wanted to.
Luc do you want to play a bard this time? I think a Chelish Diva would be awesome.
If so I'll probably play a full bab martial. Toss up between urban barbarian/ranger/slayer and a warpriest. Obviously a Milani follwer with social skills and a side of stealth.
I quite like the idea of Eldritch Heritage too.
I was considering a bard if someone else wasn't going to be one, though I wasn't going to go with an archetype
My second option was Sorcerer most likely of celestial bloodline
Some AP's practically beg for thematic archetypes, this is one of those. Iron Gods is another.
There is literally a Rogue Archetype named Kintargo! rebel.
That being said, if you guys are interested in playing Hell's Rebels next, please read the Players Guide really well. I'd like all the characters to be REALLY invested and connected with the city of Kintargo.
Hmm I'm thinking of a mint tea drinking, opera loving (he even has oratory) ex asmodean rebel. I'm partial to the idea of a hand to hand fighter using his fists (brawler class is one way of doing that but it lacks thematic archetypes, sacred fist war priest is another which stacks with the mini-paladin archetype but that might be wierd for Milani) or maybe a Jason Stretham type (urban barbarian).
Some AP's practically beg for thematic archetypes, this is one of those. Iron Gods is another.
There is literally a Rogue Archetype named Kintargo! rebel.
That being said, if you guys are interested in playing Hell's Rebels next, please read the Players Guide really well. I'd like all the characters to be REALLY invested and connected with the city of Kintargo.
I don't have the data package for that archetype in my hero lab. Would you be okay with a non diva?
I'm not sure if I want to play another archer, though halflings tend to be good at those things. Depending on what we're going to need I might be a sort of frontliner as well. In that case I might dip a level in Swashbuckler to increase damage and survival up front.
Un-claimed items:
Wand of cure moderate wounds, 11 charges -> Silas
Promisary note 1000g --> Sell
Ring of Invisibility
Potion of False Life
Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds
Potion of Barkskin
Vicious dagger + 8302g --> Sell
Chain shirt +1 1250g --> Sell
Magic Ring
Band of the Stalwart Warrior 14000g --> Sell?
Amethyst Pyramid Ioun Stone 8000g --> We may need this
keen dagger of spellstoring +1 18302g --> Sell?
Belt of the Weasel 10000g --> Sell?
If we sold those things we'd have: 1000 + 0.5 *(8302 + 1250 + 14000 + 8000 +18302 + 10000) = 30927g
Unless anyone desperately wants upgrades, I'd suggest we buy a load of stuff to fight undead. E.g. scrolls of negative plane protection, a wand of CLW, a wand of lesser restoration. Assuming they're available (which isn't guaranteed).
A brawling warpriest might be weird for Milani, but I can see Warpriests of Cayden Cailean being "bouncers"