I also am not a fan of 15 point buys. I feel that they encourage dump stats. 20 point buys give a little breathing room to still be useful and better rounded
Niles' reminder that we need to be good at things outside of combat got me thinking that it would be a good idea have good skill points. Cleric Int+2 is crazy low, so I started looking for divine options with more skills. Which lead me to the Shaman class, where I realized that the Speaker of the Past archetype basically allows one to be a priest of a city, which seemed appropriate for this campaign.
I will admit that the Mgwani connection was impart because I think there is a connection between Chelax and places thousands of miles away and it was fun to think that through.
I'm going to be unpopular opinion penguin here (that's a meme btw) but 15 pt buy means you have 16 in your primary stat and that's just fine!
For some reason everyone playing pathfinder is totally used to putting 18 in the stat (I'm in this boat too). The funny thing is elite array* characters are perfectly playable. Sure casters do need some magic to cast higher level spells, but that is available.
* 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.
I'm also perfectly fine with playing with 15 point-buy, I'm tweaking my stats still as I want to probably take up Combat Expertise so I'll need an Int of 13 at least.
Stats will become Str 10 (12-2), Dex 16 (14+2), Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 16 (14+2)
Question Niles, do you allow Called Shots?
I think 15 point buy (or the Elite Array) is perfectly suitable for most characters.
What if we used an alternate Elite Array
15 14 13 12 10 10 (It's a 17 point buy, no dump stat)
Some (monks I'm lookin at you) Classes do MUCH better with a 20 point buy...but most classes can start with a 16 or 17 in the primary stat and be completely fine.
re:Skills We will be using the Background skills optional rule, which will help 2+Int classes stay relevant in the skills dept.
Re:Vivian I like the story, I'm a fan of Shamans too!
With a Community Guardian Oracle and a Shaman this group would be well endowed with Divine Magic!
re:Called Shots....I guess so. Why are you asking? I've not ever had it come up in an actual game.
I can get behind the alternate elite array, since it avoids having a dump stat. I need to look up this background skills rule.
@Lucanor I chuckled at your write up, good stuff man.
Niles you just gave me a very amusing mental image of a unicorn scoring the dryad's tree because it's head itched do to the molting of its horn.
@Lucanor I chuckled at your write up, good stuff man.
Thanks :)
@Niles, Well I'm not gonna do much damage as a Dex-based melee oracle, I might try to be very annoying for my opponents. So if I later may have options open besides Butterfly's Sting and Improved Critical I can decide later which way I go. Either the debuff the enemy or buff my allies melee route.
Also I'm rewriting my character's history, I still had my more healing-based oracle in mind writing that. My melee-build is much more proactive, though slow to react sometimes.
Xyndira's background will get a rewrite then too.
Gilmork there are a variety of dex to damage feats these days, but it is feat intensive to go that way. Str builds seem much simpler with more room to pick up fun oddball stuff that might be good for Hell's Rebels.
Somehow i get the feeling, Jaxom's starting to put us on the same level as Kreed, regarding the forest, despite our best attempts.
Correct me if i'm wrong, of course, but we've tried very hard to help both the fey and the exploited folk.
Being humans without political influence (save for our silver tongued bard's talents), there's only so much we can do to try and steer the mindset of the big cities towards something else.
I forgot, Hecktor would have asked Gilmork to inquire to the queen's opinion on a magical lumberyard away from Falcon's Hollow and the vale, to spare the forest from the lumberjacks' axes, thus giving time for their realm to regrow.
I know there are a lot of Feats Silas, put I'd like to pull my weight on damage if it's needed.
To be honest I wanted to go Fencing Grace level 3, but I might go Combat Expertise, and at level 5 Butterfly's Sting/Improved Called Shot instead.
He does think that Silas and Hecktor think the fey should basically bend over and hope that the Andorans use lube.
His perception is based entirely in their disinterest in acknowledging -- even privately -- that the Andoran use of the Vale is illegitimate. The Vale at least, is the land of the fey who have been here time out of mind. Yet, the Andoran treat the fey like they imagine that the Chelaxian overlords used to treat them: as resources to be exploited.
If the sovereignty of the fey were acknowledge, it would create a shared understanding between the ostensibly freedom loving Andoran's and the fey. It cannot all be lip service. And yet, when Jaxom tried to suggest this to them, they basically called him a fool. They saw only one solution and did not seek to understand the fey position.
It's one thing to be a human partisan. Jaxom expects mortals to advocate for mortal interests. It's quite another thing to try to legitimate the very problem the fey are trying to struggle against and call it a solution.
So, no, they are not the at same level as Kreed, but they are definitely part of the problem.
Well honestly that way of thinking is so alien to the majority of humanity I doubt we'll come to an accommodation. That would be a shame and a little ironic, fae pride backfiring.
One day the shoue is going to drop and Silas will be shocked and more than a little offended by Jaxom's opinions.
Heck, I thought Silas going to the Admiral was brilliant and might buy the fae a lot of what they wanted even if it isn't for the reasons Jaxom might wish
I think Jaxom's point is quite valid, as is Hecktors. It's a matter of perception.
To the Fey, the humans are all interlopers, one might not be "as bad" as the other but they are all basically bad
To Hecktor et al. they have been working damn hard to lessen the impact of the logging, but to the Fey its just a lower level of something really bad.
Re the Andorrans treating the fae like resources, I don't think the Andorrans think of the fae at all! To most people in the vale, let alone Almas, they are things of story and nightmare. The events of the carnival didn't exactly help matters
Getting graphical there m8 :)
The 'Andoran', which isn't every individual, but the big organizations.
Hecktor and Silas never called him a fool (unless you can find the post using those words :P), like i said, there's only so much they can pull off.
If they 'didn't care at all', we wouldn't even bother trying to change the minds of the consortium & the big cities and let it all happen.
:/
It's alien to want people to respect the sovereignty of other people's political institutions? I fundamentally disagree. Humans understand how recognition and political sovereignty work. Otherwise they wouldn't have cities, countries, property, or civilization. I think there are numerous and easily understood parallels between Andoran's relationship with Chelax and the Vale's relationship to Andoran.
Jaxom isn't suggesting that Andoran would have no access to the wood but rather that they recognize that it is not their wood to dispose as they please and that they fey must receive respect and compensation.
So, again, it seems that Silas is just not interested in giving a charitable reading to Jaxom's position or trying to imagine a solution that isn't one he came up with himself.
However, I want to give credit where credit is due. The Admiral could theoretically be a linchpin in a compromise position. If he could get the Andoran government to recognize the Vale as an autonomous region under the control of the fey court, then Jaxom would be very willing to work out a deal where some of the Dark Wood was exclusively exported to Andoran.
Sigh. I'm not trying to impose something. I think your view of me is distorted :/
I was just explaining Silas's thinking which has been consistent for several years. You are welcome to try and change his mind and I do understand your argument. Problem is he sees fae as one or two steps removed from monsters.
Still I can stop communicating if you'd prefer :(
Why would I prefer that?
My only concern oog is that you seem to have an anxiety that when people disagree with you then they want you to leave or stop participating. I would like to understand where this is coming from and how we might alleviate it.
Problem is he sees fae as one or two steps removed from monsters.
This. This is it exactly. Silas doesn't think that the fey are worthy of recognition or respect (because they are basically monsters in his mind).
Imagine how disrespectful and upsetting Jaxom finds this prejudice. He was sent by his queen to help these people. He risks his life on their behalf for causes that are not his own. He thinks they are becoming friends. Then, when it comes that he has a cause that is close to his heart and upon which his future existence might depend, the people he thought were his friends don't seem to think that he and his people are actually people and that their problems aren't real problems.
It belies the entire friendship that he thought he had with these people.
It makes for some great pathos and role-playing opportunities, and it gives me the opportunity to tap of my personal rage vis-a-vis the history of my people in America. :-)
Might that have something to do with the Carnival of Tears, Silas?
Well the comparison with the colonial settlement of North and South America is a good one Jaxom. Could you imagine how different things would have gone if people tended to make trade agreements first instead of simply claiming lands as theirs?
I can understand Jaxom's position on the matter, to him Silas or Hecktor aren't particularly harmful, but they aren't changing anything for the better as well. At least not where the best interests of the native inhabitants of the Vale are concerned. Most of the focus has been on saving and safe-guarding Falcon's Hollow, the colonial town, which is from most human characters their point of view a legitimate goal.
Saving their shared realm together is good, but I suspect Jaxom would like something more than promises, some concrete concessions on the part of Falcon's Hollow at least. A guarantee of fey legitimacy of the Vale from Andoran itself would be the highest goal.
About to turn in for the night. One thing to mention is Silas has 8 wis and only +5 to Sense Motive. Lucanor is the insightful one around here :)
This is important to mention since Jaxom has been very reserved most of the time (changing of late though!). The internal monologues are entertaining, but Silas really has no clue what Jaxom is about. He won't either unless someone explains in character (doesnt have to be Jaxom necessarily).
As for the monsters thing, what Hecktor said. With a caveat Silas knows there are factions among the fae, but he doesn't know what that reslly means. How would he?
Yeah I think that's true Gilmork, but how on earth to get Almas to agree?
Could you imagine how different things would have gone if people tended to make trade agreements first instead of simply claiming lands as theirs?
Historically, that also led to some bad outcomes. Colonialism as en economic project relies of the extraction of the resources from the "periphery" for the enrichment of the "core."
One method of doing this is called "indirect rule" where the "core" supports some local elites against their enemies in exchange for cheap resources. Once these supported local elites take power, then further economic and military pressure can be on them by the colonial elites. After awhile the local elites support the interests of the colonial elites, and thus indirect rule.
Unfortunately for Jaxom, he doesn't know any of that.
I'm really enjoying this exploration of bias.
Silas thinks the fey are monsters because he fought them, but he has fought humans as well. What makes the difference? I think it must be familiarity.
I've always thought it was gross when people say that they came to support a civil right after they personally know a member of the oppressed class that requires that expansion of freedom. Shouldn't they support that expansion because they believe it to be right, and not merely because they became emotionally involved with an affected party? But this past year, and this discussion, really make me think that psychologically people need the personal connection before recognition is likely to happen.
How to get Almas to agree?
1. Convince them it's the right thing to do. People are occasionally swayed by moral arguments. They can also be persuaded when they are convinced that they need to abandon one belief "the woods are ours" to protect a more important belief "we are the freedom fighters not the oppressors."
2. Convince them that it is in their best interests. "We get the benefit of the wood indefinitely without the risk of deforestation."
3. Convince them that the alternatives are too cost. "How much gold and lives would be lost if we tried to root out the fey." This is kinda how India achieved independece: they made it too expensive for the British to maintain their control.
While I appreciate all the excellent roleplay I'd like to remind everyone that we are all here to have fun and I certainly hope no one is taking any of this personally.
I'll ask that you guys put a pin in this issue (because we won't be resolving it in the course of this next module anyways)
To give you guys a peek behind the curtain as it were, I've always intended to have the party make choices that would be either Pro-Fey (to the detriment of Falcons Hollow) or Pro-Falcon's Hollow (to the detriment of the Fey). I was inspired by the Witcher series of stories where the Witcher Geralt is constantly betraying the fairy world to help the human one, and consequently being hated by the human world.
This worked out well until the party kinda split a bit over the goals of the campaign and I think it started when the party was negotiating Kreed's demise in Almas way back when. I put in a few things foreshadowing the mood in Almas and the intense greed of the Andoran government when it comes to the Darkwood trees and the power and influence that comes from owning the rights to such a precious commodity. If you guys recall, the Councillor Gejni's entire reason for going along with your plot wasn't because Kreed was a bad guy. It was because he could supplant Kreed and control the Darkwood trade.
I've always intended this campaign to be a little more dark than the standard fantasy fare, and hopefully you guys don't feel like you aren't ever "winning". There are bright spots in this dark story we are telling, its just hard to see them through the haze of greed, oppression and injustice.
I definitely have a vision in my head of how the Darkmoon Vale and Falcons Hollow will look at the end of the campaign and it changes daily based on you guys actions. If you have any concerns or problems or just simply wish to complain to me, feel free to send me a PM =)
It's my 15 year class reunion this weekend so this might be the only update until maybe tomorrow afternoon.
I posted several days ago how I was leading people out of the grove, and then a day or so after that I asked if you needed me to write a different moving along post. Sometimes, I don't post because I think the ball is in your court.
Yeah I saw that, but then a bunch of people posted dialogue so I was waiting for someone to "second" your action of moving forward. I typically wait for at least two people to agree to doing something before I'll take it.
I like it when you guys post every day, even if its a
"Jaxom waits for the others to decide what to do, because his mind is made up"
type post, that way I know everyone is still engaged in the game.
Let me know the watches for resting. I'm in meetings all morning so nothing from me until I get back after lunch.
Jaxom (Will cast Darkvision on himself and then Gilmork and Luc before falling asleep)
Gilmork and Hecktor
Silas and Luc.
I'll be away from the internet most of the weekend, connection and availability will be spotty at best, bot me if needed.
I think you are up, Silas?
Silas is paralyzed for 5 rounds :/
You used saving finale, right?
Silas turned himself into a water elf.
Elves are immune to ghoul paralysis, it's ghasts'paralysis they aren't immune to.
Lacedon are ghouls.
He becomes the subtype aquatic elf, I had thought he did that on purpose as well. Though I think you're only taking it's form, not any special qualities besides darkvision, low-light vision or swim.
I wanted to, but I guess I left it too long. So Silas is out for the count. Oh and Alter Self does not provide racial immunities, (initially I thought it did). It's limited to the list below (which is still awesome for a lvl 2 spell)
darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, and swim 30 feet.
Oh, okay, I guess Niles is up then.
Yep I posted, and I also had to look up Alter Self to see if it gave the racial immunity that makes no sense.
Maybe there is a lore reason like Kabriri really respects elven personal space?
Hah, makes as much sense as anything else I guess.
True story, in middle school I played 2nd Ed with some friends of mine. The only time I was ever "killed" by the GM was in a fight with some ghouls....all my pals played elves because they were "cool"...I was a dwarf =/
I've harbored resentment against that racial immunity for a long while.
This sunday, one of my aunts passed away. As they plan on having visition on one day and the funeral on the other, with travel included I will likely not be on much if at all for the next day or three.
If you need to Bot Lucanor, feel free
Damn... :/
Sorry for the loss Luc, you take it easy, we'll see you when you get to it.
My condolences.