DM Jesse's Kingmaker PbP (Inactive)

Game Master Jesse Heinig

Kingmaker is a deservedly popular AP, and I've decided to try my hand at giving it a turn.

This is recruitment for a completely new party, starting at the beginning.

Since character options are diverse in Pathfinder, I've created a document that explains what kinds of characters I like to see, and what I don't want to see for this adventure. Read the character creation document here!

Short version: 20 point buy, Pathfinder races and classes, oddball races will be much harder to convince (but there are some options that are possible there), and you can use gunslingers, Occult adventurers, etc. Yes you can take a drawback to get an extra trait, no you can't take a flaw for a bonus feat, and this campaign will use background skills. No gestalts or mythic adventures.

Planning on a 5-player group.

Pace: I would like to update this game every day. From time to time I wind up traveling or having various activities that impact my schedule and I might miss a day or two, but I always try to give advance notice. If players post frequently, I also tend to post frequently. I would like frequent posters for this adventure. :)
I am in US Pacific coast time.

Tools: This is a play-by-post forum game and I will host maps on Roll20. When I need to make important documents, like kingdom-management spreadsheets, I post them on Google docs with a viewable link for the players, like the document above about my character submission preferences. I generally post important links in the short desc of the campaign, so you can always just click on the links from the top of the campaign window.

A little about me: I'm currently running a Jade Regent group that is moving at a leisurely pace -- they've just left the start and gotten on the caravan trail at level 2 and are having their first encounter on the road. I have a long history in gaming. I play in four games on these boards.

Recruitment will run one week through Oct 28th. I reserve the right to adjust my schedule if something comes up, and I am planning to do some vacationing so something may very well do so. Please make sure your character is neat and complete.

This looks very interesting. I already am in a Kingmaker game, though I never got to be in one from the beginning.

I am wondering if you might allow a strix that is half strix in fluff by taking the Bastard trait?

And also, to prevent flight out the gate, I was thinking, from a story standpoint, that she could have been attacked before this adventure begins and her wing(s) mended incorrectly?

How many characters were you planning on running for? Note that KM is built around four 15-pt characters, although Alex Kilcoyne came up with an adjustment document for a party of six.

Very interested DM Jesse.

I plan on a halfling or a small aasimar cavalier with the strategist archetype mounted on a wolf. Plan on trying out teamwork feats to make the group excel tactically. Sort of a small tactical genius.

How many characters were you planning on running for? Note that KM is built around four 15-pt characters, although Alex Kilcoyne came up with an adjustment document for a party of six.

I'm planning to take a five-player group. I will consider the roles of each party member. While it's not impossible that you might get a group that has no trapfinding or no primary healer, I will tend to favor characters who can fill a particular role and help the party to succeed when working as a group. Since there are five PCs, though, you shouldn't shy away from playing hybrids like a magus or multiclass character.

Though I generally run modules close to the way they're printed -- less work for me -- I do tend to throw in the occasional character challenge that pits your character against moral dilemmas, or against something that is a specific problem for your character. So, I'm not super worried about the group being over the general power level. For some encounters that may just mean one or two more enemies. For others, it might mean political or ethical dilemmas that aren't solved more easily just because you have a larger, tougher party.

This looks very interesting. I already am in a Kingmaker game, though I never got to be in one from the beginning.

I am wondering if you might allow a strix that is half strix in fluff by taking the Bastard trait?

And also, to prevent flight out the gate, I was thinking, from a story standpoint, that she could have been attacked before this adventure begins and her wing(s) mended incorrectly?

I don't consider strix flight a problem; bandits have bows. The bigger problem is in fitting in with human society. Kingmaker is a very humanocentric game because you are working on behalf of a human nation to set up another human nation. The ancestral enmity of strix and humans is a tough hurdle to confront. This can, of course, be the source of some juicy conflict and great character dilemmas. It means, though, that the party needs to really be on board with your character and willing to support your path of character development into an appropriate role. Unless things go wildly strangely, for instance, a strix character would never be the actual ruler of the foundling kingdoms of the PCs -- the swordlords of Brevoy would never allow it. Similarly, if your character is mercurial, untrustworthy, low Charisma, or otherwise difficult to work with, it would be very hard to fit into the campaign, because your mere presence would make more enemies for the PCs instead of forging a new nation.

It's not an insurmountable hurdle, but a strix PC needs to have a strong, compelling reason not just to be in the group, but to explain how the strix's presence will eventually fit in the kingdom-building phase of the Adventure Path. Consider what kind of role you'd play in the kingdom, how you avoid superstitious peasant outrage, how you walk the line between loyalty to your people and soothing human concerns.

I don't know that strix are cross-compatible with humanity. In my mind's eye the strix are kinda like the bat-people from Beastmaster. (See here if you aren't a child of the '80s.) This is based on the description of the strix as being black-skinned, winged, devil-like creatures. Based on the Latin roots of the term they probably also have some owl-like features. (If they're bat-people, they're probably mammals and more likely to be compatible. Owl-people would be more avian and less likely. But, this is a fantasy game, so...)

If you want a strix character who has the Bastard trait AND a built-in hook for the campaign, play a character who was saved by a merciful human after a small strix community was destroyed. Adopted by this young scion, you were raised in a human community. You learned about your people and the superstitions that humans have of them through the human lens; what you choose to do with that knowledge is your choice -- whether you try to embrace your parents' culture, or adopt human mores. In such a case your adoptive human parents would be upstanding social movers and shakers in Brevoy, who helped you get a place in society and get the charter for exploration. Your family is not a "noble" family, though, which is where the Bastard trait comes in; your character might be accepted in Brevic society, but would never be considered a noble or a "true" member of human society (unless/until you get heavily involved in making a new kingdom, of course). You'll still have the problem that many humans will fear you on sight, but at least you have an "in" with the legitimate government. Basically, it's similar to having the Noble-Born trait, where you are an adoptive scion, but in this case you aren't actually from a noble lineage, or from a lineage that is not credited as nobility in Brevoy.

You could come up with other alternatives as well. That is just one suggestion off the top of my head.

Wow! Thank you for putting such thought into it. Well, I do intend to play a strix. Maybe a magus or something similar to the character stated already in the profile of this character.

Her old background is that she was a young slave, that escape and flew north. She attacked, and then was rescued, and as such was taken in and taught. And with the information you gave, she could have been adopted by a family like you said when she was rescued.

Another thing about the strix that kinda stuck in my mind, is that the early art of it had a tan human, with brown feathered wings. It was in a bestiary I believe. The other is in the Inner Sea Races are more Raven like. Which by artwork, look closer to bats with feathers, than to a humanoid.

Wow! Thank you for putting such thought into it. Well, I do intend to play a strix. Maybe a magus or something similar to the character stated already in the profile of this character.

Her old background is that she was a young slave, that escape and flew north. She attacked, and then was rescued, and as such was taken in and taught. And with the information you gave, she could have been adopted by a family like you said when she was rescued.

Another thing about the strix that kinda stuck in my mind, is that the early art of it had a tan human, with brown feathered wings. It was in a bestiary I believe. The other is in the Inner Sea Races are more Raven like. Which by artwork, look closer to bats with feathers, than to a humanoid.

Probably a change in design direction. Really there's no good reason that you couldn't have strix come in a variety of colors, in much the same fashion that birds, bats, or humans do. If strix are nocturnal predators it makes sense for them to be dark in color, but there are white owls, too.

As far as character background, a great hook would be if you are a rescue who is basically the adoptive sibling of another PC. That way you have a built-in connection to another member of the party who can speak up for you and you have a pal you can roleplay with!

That sounds great!... Are you an author or something? :P I can see this character being a lighter variety, escape slave, found and adopted, and taught. Oh! Thank you! So many good ideas.

That sounds great!... Are you an author or something? :P I can see this character being a lighter variety, escape slave, found and adopted, and taught. Oh! Thank you! So many good ideas.

I'm a professional game designer. Some of my better-known works include Fallout (the original), a stint on Mage (the White Wolf RPG), the Star Trek RPG (by Decipher), and the Star Trek Online MMO (from Cryptic Studios). Amusingly, I've only contributed to one Pathfinder book.

I'm definitely interested! I was looking into building a paladin/sentinel the other day, so I'll get working on it because this seems like a great environment for something like that!

Wow! Erm, before going off tangent, what is the starting gold for the characters? Average or max of class? Or something else?

Great question. 150 gp. I will update the character design document!

Is there anyway I could talk you into a 3rd party class. I have a PC from a dead Kingmaker mash up that I'd love to play again. Also, the race is a third party one as well designed using the Race building rules.

I am very strongly considering a character who is lawful evil. The evil being there because he will do anything he deems necessary, even things normally considered evil to protect those he calls friends, companions, or those under his personal protection. He would be a genuinely honourable and gentle guy who believes in justice and peace and would prefer a world without strife or war, he is just pragmatic enough to know that bad things happen, and always will. Is that something you would allow?

I've always wanted to be a part of a KM game, so am interested. :)

I'm considering a Ranger (maybe with the Guide and Trapper archetypes) or a Hunter. Either of those might play pretty well into the sibling angle for Telmarni. :)

Is there anyway I could talk you into a 3rd party class. I have a PC from a dead Kingmaker mash up that I'd love to play again. Also, the race is a third party one as well designed using the Race building rules.

Well for starters I would have to know what it is. :)

I'm not wholly opposed to 3rd party material, but I gotta go and read it m'self. Notably, I am generally ok with psionic stuff (from Dreamscarred) and I would probably let the various "martial adept" classes play (also from Dreamscarred), though I reserve the right to make spot decisions about stuff that might wind up breaking like a brittle twig.

I am very strongly considering a character who is lawful evil. The evil being there because he will do anything he deems necessary, even things normally considered evil to protect those he calls friends, companions, or those under his personal protection. He would be a genuinely honourable and gentle guy who believes in justice and peace and would prefer a world without strife or war, he is just pragmatic enough to know that bad things happen, and always will. Is that something you would allow?

Yes. The other players would, of course, need to know in advance that this is how you are going to play. If I chose such a character for the group I certainly wouldn't pick a paladin for the campaign, so there's already some grid-blocking going on there. :)

I've always wanted to be a part of a KM game, so am interested. :)

I'm considering a Ranger (maybe with the Guide and Trapper archetypes) or a Hunter. Either of those might play pretty well into the sibling angle for Telmarni. :)

Both are excellent choices for Kingmaker, as you spend a lot of time in the wilderness, and when you transition to a more developed kingdom there's still need for a character who's a sort of protector of the land/gamekeepr figure.

I will be submitting this character, still working on her though so it's incomplete. Here is a short description, and she is a sorcerer who shoots lightning or ice, i haven't decided yet

I will be submitting this character, still working on her though so it's incomplete. Here is a short description, and she is a sorcerer who shoots lightning or ice, i haven't decided yet

** spoiler omitted **

I sent the relevant info to you. This is the character as it currently exists.

I sent the relevant info to you. This is the character as it currently exists.

Received. I'll need access to the class info (it's in a document that requires access -- I sent an access request).

Illya-Nym wrote:

I will be submitting this character, still working on her though so it's incomplete. Here is a short description, and she is a sorcerer who shoots lightning or ice, i haven't decided yet

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

KK i'll think on it and leave it in the profile when as under a separate spoiler, figure a reason for being in the campaign deserves it's own little thing. since it is level 1 i am assuming with this, it could end up being as simple as me going with she impressed people

either way i'll come up with something a little more in depth, ill let you know when it's all set brah.

I have heard it can be a really fun campaign if run correctly.

The frak? I swear that was shareable. Okay, should be viewable now.

Well, here is Telmarni's stats. Haven't chosen the Noble Family yet, since I don't know who will play with what character. Still changing up her backstory to fit. But anyway, here is her stats.

And her backstory is somewhat the outline, but he is what follows.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to note that that stats shown is when she is carrying everything she has. If she can fight without her backpack, she is alot more mobile.

I'd be more than happy to apply for a Kingmaker game. I'll probably come up with either a dwarf or a human.

quick question, might help with the why am i here thing.

looking at the campaign traits the Bastard trait. would you allow a non-human it? could reasonably work provided i change a few minor details.

if not im just going to work with the brigand trait and work her in using that.

DM, what are your thoughts on necromancers?

Kingmaker has always seemed like the perfect game for a necromancy-themed character, since there's no real existing authority or church out in the stolen lands to get cranky about it.

I have an idea for a Necromancer who would be very much a team player and very helpful to a party, so long as they weren't the sort to get upset about controlled undead.

Thoughts?

quick question, might help with the why am i here thing.

looking at the campaign traits the Bastard trait. would you allow a non-human it? could reasonably work provided i change a few minor details.

if not im just going to work with the brigand trait and work her in using that.

Yep. In fact I cover that specific case in my linked character document in the first post. :)

DM, what are your thoughts on necromancers?

Kingmaker has always seemed like the perfect game for a necromancy-themed character, since there's no real existing authority or church out in the stolen lands to get cranky about it.

I have an idea for a Necromancer who would be very much a team player and very helpful to a party, so long as they weren't the sort to get upset about controlled undead.

Thoughts?

I play necromancers from time to time.

That said, raising the dead is generally considered an "evil act" in the Pathfinder setting, as uncontrolled or intelligent undead tend to wander around murdering people. This is not a dealbreaker but it could certainly have repercussions down the line.

I have previously run a tabletop game with a PC necromancer who pulled out all the stops to hyper-optimize his ability to raise undead minions. It got a little ridiculous. So I'm more keen on the kind of necromancer who uses lots of necro-magic plus a few minions than the guy who has a shambling army of undead mind flayers, behirs, and krakens.

Illya-Nym wrote:

quick question, might help with the why am i here thing.

looking at the campaign traits the Bastard trait. would you allow a non-human it? could reasonably work provided i change a few minor details.

if not im just going to work with the brigand trait and work her in using that.

Yep. In fact I cover that specific case in my linked character document in the first post. :)

Oh, didnt notice that sorry for the trouble

Oh, didnt notice that sorry for the trouble

It's no trouble at all. I'm here to help. :D

Thank you for your well-defined character creation document.

I was thinking of the following concept. Let me know what you think:

Thank you for your well-defined character creation document.

I was thinking of the following concept. Let me know what you think:

** spoiler omitted **

Interesting. This is the kind of character that would be a "slow burn," starting out as a support role but moving into increasingly powerful gameplay as the kingdom-building rules come on line. Also has some built-in side story hooks. Additionally, I am fond of certain literary tropes.

There are some definite parallels. Innocent as he may begin, there will be a certain level a damnation thrust upon him in his activities, though an extended prison sentence is likely not in the works for his backstory.

once again only a short, but hows this work for ya? for being here and all.

Hello!

A few years back I was involved in a highly modified Kingmaker campaign that didn't get far. I made a healer-type half-elf witch for it. I'm interested, and I'd love to dust her off and use her again!

Hi! Here's that healer witch I was talking about earlier. I'd go through and review it and make it all appropriate for the campaign, but it'll give you the idea of what I have in mind.

Dot.

I am quite excited for this.

I had a thought on how Telmarni might be able to blend in. Would a cloak of feathers help disguise her wings as part of cloak? This is basically just bouncing ideas out there.

Dotting. I'm going to go through an in-depth reading of the character's creation notes before doing anything though!

I am quite excited for this.

I had a thought on how Telmarni might be able to blend in. Would a cloak of feathers help disguise her wings as part of cloak? This is basically just bouncing ideas out there.

Sure, that might help if visibility is poor, but remember that in PF the usual way to "pretend to be human" when you are not is to use Disguise. Yeah, it's kind of a pain in the ass but that's the way the system is built. Your bigger problem is (in my opinion) Telmarni's low charisma -- means that when you have to interact with people, they already start out not liking you, and it's harder to convince them that you are not an enemy! (You might be able to offset that by ranking Bluff or Diplomacy.)

If you go the Disguise route, a typical common human (no stat mods) has a passive Perception of 10, so if you can get a 13 by taking 10 on your skill check, your typical Disguise would fool the average person. (It's 13 because you must beat the Perception total, and you have a -2 for disguising as a different race.) Also if you use a Disguise and someone sees through it, they will tend to be hostile because, well, you are obviously trying to fool them. :)

If you go the social skill route, it's actually a little harder because you are looking at moving people from Unfriendly, which is like DC 20+!

So it's gonna be rough any way you cut it. Fortunately you will have allies (the party) to help keep things from getting out of hand -- but in Kingmaker, having a poor charisma and poor social skills is a liability when you get to kingdom building, even if you aren't the ruler. I recommend taking a gander at leadership roles for kingdoms to see where your character might be able to fit once the PCs start a nation.

DM, what are your thoughts on a divine hunter paladin of Erastil? And, in a more general sense, what do you think about paladins in this campaign? I had the chance to play KM in person last year (we only went through the first book, though), and I was playing a paladin. There were no problem at all with party members, since we felt like Erastil tenets were very easy to share in the Stolen Lands, but I'm asking your opinion nonetheless. I've got other ideas in case this wouldn't work or isn't reccomended.

Dotting for interest! I have a human arcanist (white mage archetype) that was in a Kingmaker game for awhile on the forums that didn't go very far. It'll probably be later tonight or tomorrow before I'll have a chance to review her sheet/backstory and see if adjustments need to be made, but I wanted to throw it out there.

Although I did dot for interest on the other ongoing Kingmaker recruitment some time ago, I ultimately couldn't come up with any adjustments to Korinne (my arcanist) that I liked or a brand new concept to fit the creation guidelines. I think your guidelines will suit what I have in mind a little better :)

*edit* I know you said you were interested in frequent posters, but how much so? I can definitely commit to at least 1/day, but with my work schedule it's sometimes difficult to do more than that on work days. My days off are usually more relaxed and I can generally post more as the game/story requires.

DM Jessie-

This is Raxus. He's been accepted into four Kingmaker games on these boards, all of which have died out before they got far. I've gotten into the habit of working the previous games into his backstory, using them as "failed attempts" at the taming of the stolen lands.

He now lives at Oleg's Trade Post full time, acting as a sort of local liaison and guide for new groups who show up to try to pick up where old groups failed. At this point he's rather disillusioned with the whole thing, and all his new friends keep dying, so he's a bit sad and standoffish.

He is a fantastic character with a rich history. I'd love to reprise him.

He's a Half-Ogre, using a 3rd party race from before Paizo had published their own version. I'd be happy to update him to Paizo's version, but it is a +1 CR template.

I have a couple proposals for how to make this work-

1) Rebuild Raxus with the Paizo template, and not give him a class level. He'd be a 1 Hit Dice humanoid with the Ogrekin template. His first class level would come when everyone else hit level 2 (he'd be a barbarian).

2) Keep him as the third-party race (which is actually quite weak according to the race building rules. roughly 6 race points).

3) Come up with a custom race with the race building rules that would be something of a middle ground between the two.

With your approval of one of these, I'll rework him at first level.

Okay, I know you said oddball races would need some good justification, but I think I've got a good one that would be amusingly fun to play.

A kobold swordlord. And I promise, he had a good story.

Basically, he was bought as an egg by an aging brevoy nobleman and Aldori swordlord as something of an oddity. When he hatched, the old noble planned to sell him, but on a whim, humored the kobold when he started playing with one of his practice swords. After a while, he grew attached to the little guy and started teaching him fencing and dueling, and after a few years, on his death bed, planned to leave a good portion of his estate to the little kobold as repayment for being such a good companion and student.

As you can imagine, his existing family was not happy about this and stole his inheritance from him and drove him off, escaping only with an old sword his mentor gifted him. After a couple years of wandering, studying, and practice, he's returning to help the new nation in hopes that once he has a position of power, he can come back, claim the old man's inheritance and take revenge on the family.

So, like a Count of Monte Cristo... but with a kobold.

...a Kobold of Monte Cristo, if you will.

I am definitely interesting in participating in this. Not certain what I will play, but I am thinking a Human Rogue or Investigator. He would possible be a member of House Lebeda, a merchant looking to use the charter as a way to lay the groundwork to expand his family's network.

Dotting for interest as well. I'll go over the character development sheet you put together and put together a submission.

So thoughts on the class/race?