Pathfinder: Kingmaker Announced!


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Silver Crusade

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Same!

Scarab Sages

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The Owlcatgames Forums Are up.

Scarab Sages

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Also, there's a Wiki now.

Silver Crusade

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Cool!

Scarab Sages

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So I was mistaken. Amiri is the Gorumite. Valerie is a Lawful Neutral Atheist (when you meet her).
Mea Culpa. I was misled by the loud cry of "For Gorum!" in Valerie's introduction video.

Silver Crusade

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Huh, I could have sworn it said she was a Gorumite in her writeup.


Rysky wrote:
Huh, I could have sworn it said she was a Gorumite in her writeup.

Nope, Gorum is never even mentioned in her write-up. Honestly, this makes a lot more sense lore-wise since a Lawful Neutral worshiper of Gorum is a bit odd. Shelyn plotting revenge against her for abandoning the faith is still kind of weird though.

Silver Crusade

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Delightful wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Huh, I could have sworn it said she was a Gorumite in her writeup.
Nope, Gorum is never even mentioned in her write-up. Honestly, this makes a lot more sense lore-wise since a Lawful Neutral worshiper of Gorum is a bit odd. Shelyn plotting revenge against her for abandoning the faith is still kind of weird though.

Wait, where was that mentioned?


Rysky wrote:
Delightful wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Huh, I could have sworn it said she was a Gorumite in her writeup.
Nope, Gorum is never even mentioned in her write-up. Honestly, this makes a lot more sense lore-wise since a Lawful Neutral worshiper of Gorum is a bit odd. Shelyn plotting revenge against her for abandoning the faith is still kind of weird though.
Wait, where was that mentioned?

It was the fourth update on the kickstarter page that introduced Valerie as the Fighter companion.

"Even the kindest of gods don't take well to blasphemy, and the revenge of Shelyn may not only be harsh, but also incredibly poetic."


I think she'll probably go "Mister River Rat" or else maybe Nethys. Dunno.

I do know that there was mention of Amiri following Gorum's call to battle at least once or twice. So it make sense.

Regardless, she's on the list of people my paladin will recruit to fight trolls.

Silver Crusade

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Oh damn, it had to be something serious if we're talking Blasphemy.


Thomas Seitz,

Why Nethys? Cannot imagine a Fighter being really into arcane magic.

Rysky,

Well she did cut off her super pretty hair and gave herself a pageboy haircut. That seems pretty blasphemous to me. :P


Delightful,

I ran out of major deities after Shelyn oriented.

Silver Crusade

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Hey! Short hair is cute!


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Rysky wrote:
Oh damn, it had to be something serious if we're talking Blasphemy.

Plagiarism?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I assumed Valerie likely worshiped Abadar - a pretty decent god to establish a kingdom in the wilderness with.


Rysky wrote:
Hey! Short hair is cute!

Agreed! Unfortunately, pageboy haircuts are anti-cute and bring shame to all other short haircuts.

It is known. :P


Delightful wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Hey! Short hair is cute!

Agreed! Unfortunately, pageboy haircuts are anti-cute and bring shame to all other short haircuts.

It is known. :P

Words are wind.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Oh damn, it had to be something serious if we're talking Blasphemy.

Well, she's Lawful Neutral to Shelyn's NG. Which means whatever act she committed was either an Evil one or a really really neutral one.

Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Stratagemini wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Oh damn, it had to be something serious if we're talking Blasphemy.

Well, she's Lawful Neutral to Shelyn's NG. Which means whatever act she committed was either an Evil one or a really really neutral one.

Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

That's not actually true. You can blaspheme by going against a deity's area of concern/tenets, without it being opposed by alignment. For instance, her rebellion against beauty was the Blasphemy, it wasn't that doing so was Good, Evil, Lawful, or whatever, just that she didn't want to be judged on her looks, she wanted to be accepted based on her talents instead. That's arguably a good act, just one which was very anti-Shelyn.

Silver Crusade

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JoelF847 wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Oh damn, it had to be something serious if we're talking Blasphemy.

Well, she's Lawful Neutral to Shelyn's NG. Which means whatever act she committed was either an Evil one or a really really neutral one.

Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

That's not actually true. You can blaspheme by going against a deity's area of concern/tenets, without it being opposed by alignment. For instance, her rebellion against beauty was the Blasphemy, it wasn't that doing so was Good, Evil, Lawful, or whatever, just that she didn't want to be judged on her looks, she wanted to be accepted based on her talents instead. That's arguably a good act, just one which was very anti-Shelyn.

Thats... not anti-Shelyn at all though. She doesn't put beauty above a person or their talents, and in facts praises their artistic capabilities and inner beauty over physical beauty.

If anything that's anathema, not blasphemy. No, blasphemy would be something like burning down an art museum or something.


I think Valerie's blasphemy had less do with committing an act of Evil or super-Neutrality and was more of a result of Valerie's attitude to romantic love, which Shelyn is obviously into. In an Alpha build video of gameplay Valerie calls someone a fool and irresponsible for abandoning duty for a woman that he loved. That kind of mentality is sure to anger Shelyn and if Valerie believed that love should always be second to duty than it's no wonder she left the faith in a bad way and became Lawful Neutral. What can be more blasphemous to a goddess of love than someone who sees love as secondary and a potentially a mistake?

This mostly just speculation but Valerie really does seems like a women whose practical nature (cutting her long hair so it won't be a potential weakness in combat, not wearing brilliant colorful armor) just didn't mash well with the romantic ideals that Shelyn espouses.

Dark Archive

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I'm kind of worried it will be something not really curse worthy. I mean, cynical writers love to crap on good aligned characters :P


Stratagemini wrote:


Well, she's Lawful Neutral to Shelyn's NG. Which means whatever act she committed was either an Evil one or a really really neutral one.

Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

Atheism in golarion has a specific meaning, closer to the 2nd one (you believe gods are real but they do not deserve worship).

Not believing gods are real would be extremely rare, as there is physical proof of their existence

Scarab Sages

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JoelF847 wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:

Well, she's Lawful Neutral to Shelyn's NG. Which means whatever act she committed was either an Evil one or a really really neutral one.

Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

That's not actually true. You can blaspheme by going against a deity's area of concern/tenets, without it being opposed by alignment. For instance, her rebellion against beauty was the Blasphemy, it wasn't that doing so was Good, Evil, Lawful, or whatever, just that she didn't want to be judged on her looks, she wanted to be accepted based on her talents instead. That's arguably a good act, just one which was very anti-Shelyn.

Yeah, but you're forgetting she was a paladin in-training. Which meant she was Lawful Good. The fact that she's now Lawful Neutral is what informed my statement that the act was either Evil or super Neutral (those damned Neutrals!). What we know is that somehow she slipped from Lawful Good and worshiping Shelyn to lawful Neutral and not worshiping Shelyn and at least one large blasphemy was involved in that shift.

Thus my theory.

Scarab Sages

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Also, New Update.

Dark Archive

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Well, paladin code for Shelyn includes always accepting surrender. Since she is pragmatic, maybe she murdered something in real cold blood? :p That would be blasphemous probably

Silver Crusade

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*nods*


Stratagemini wrote:
Also, New Update.

Am I being weird when I say the trader being on the left is weird?

Merchants are usually on the right, with the pc on the left?

Silver Crusade

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I've seen both variants. Can't remember where though.

But as they've said, your characters inventory/stash is already on the right when you see it during the game, keeping it on the right during trading sounds good to me.


CWheezy wrote:
Stratagemini wrote:
Also, she's an Atheist, which implies she either doesn't believe in gods, or just has no use for them anymore.

Atheism in golarion has a specific meaning, closer to the 2nd one (you believe gods are real but they do not deserve worship).

Not believing gods are real would be extremely rare, as there is physical proof of their existence

Yes. I hope they can find a better word for this. Atheism traditionally doesn't mean "I can take the gods or leave 'em." Instead, it means, "I've checked, and I'm pretty certain that gods do not exist. That's fake. There's no such thing as a god."

That's a weird thing to believe when you can interact with the gods and watch the believers of those gods gain spells and holy powers and so on. Actual miracles can come from the gods.

Even "agnostic" would be better, but maybe there is a specific word that means, "I acknowledge there are god-like creatures walking amongst us and they have powers traditionally associated with gods, but I refuse to acknowledge them as such."

For me, if I see someone asserting atheism in a world where Gozreh was just recently hanging out, I'm going to look at that stat block for the PC and check to see if INT is really low. Because that's kinda dumb when a god could look you in the eye and say, "Hey, I exist. Right here."


Would non-worshipper work better than atheist?

Sovereign Court

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Apostate might work?

Silver Crusade

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Yeah she's definitely an Apostate in regards to the Shelyn religion.

Dark Archive

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outshyn wrote:
That's a weird thing to believe when you can interact with the gods and watch the believers of those gods gain spells and holy powers and so on. Actual miracles can come from the gods.

And yet, 99.99% of people in Golarion are not going to interact with a god, and most, if not all of them, are going to see people gaining spells and powers from non-divine sources like 'reading books' and 'study' and 'liking trees' and 'being cursed' and 'maybe being descended from dragons/fiends/fey.' There's literally no reason for them to believe that the 'gods' that grant spells and powers to clerics are any different from the possibly-made-up 'patrons' that grant spells and powers to witches.

Even if one of them *did* meet a god, up close and personal, it's no different than if he had met a Pit Fiend or Solar. It's a ridiculously powerful outsider that comes from another dimension and can kill him by looking at him. And it says it's a god. Who is the Commoner to argue with it? That doesn't necessarily mean that it *is* a god, or had anything to do with the creation of his race (which most 'gods' didn't), or the world (which most gods didn't), or where souls go when they die (which most gods don't), or any other thing that differentiates a 'god' from 'one of dozens, if not hundreds, of really powerful outsiders with an ego problem.'

It' super-easy to justify not believing in gods, even in Golarion.

Nobody ever sees them. Entire church hierarchies (and finances! and properties! and political power!) are based around keeping up the premise that their 'god' is real and important, so there's plenty of motivation for clerics to sell that story (or even believe it themselves, since even the ones capable of casting commune aren't necessarily talking directly to their god, or would know if whatever high-ranking outsider they were talking to was actually a servant of their god), just as there is plenty of motivation for Razmir to be playing that game.

Indeed, if Razmir ever gets 'outed,' he's going to be prime evidence number one that various other gods could be fake, as well.

Quote:

Even "agnostic" would be better, but maybe there is a specific word that means, "I acknowledge there are god-like creatures walking amongst us and they have powers traditionally associated with gods, but I refuse to acknowledge them as such."

For me, if I see someone asserting atheism in a world where Gozreh was just recently hanging out, I'm going to look at that stat block for the PC and check to see if INT is really low. Because that's kinda dumb when a god could look you in the eye and say, "Hey, I exist. Right here."

How many people have actually run into Gozreh 'just hanging out,' though?

You can run through a dozen APs, and change the course of Golarion, and never see a god. (Wrath of the Righteous being the exception, and even Iomedae only shows her face to Mythic characters.)

The only god a mortal is likely to 'run into' is Pharasma, and that only after dying (and losing all their memories of their mortal lives soon thereafter, so they aren't ever going to be telling anyone about her, even if their spirit is contacted somehow later).

Or you can go to Iblydos, and run into 'living gods' running communities, who aren't all that tougher than high level adventurers, and wonder what the big deal is, or read up about that one time a powerful non-god (Tar-Baphon) killed a god (Arazni) and, again, wonder what makes gods so special, if earthly forces can kill them.

The Exchange

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Set, the only problem with your argumentation would be that Golarion is not an enlightened society, where people think in terms of science, evidence and facts. Our ancestors also had no reason to believe in God, and yet they did (and I think 99.99% is a very good number for those who did).

And as long as you don't play a campaign without any divine influence (like spells), it shouldn't be a question if the PCs believe that the gods exist, because they profit from their existence all the time. And they probably wouldn't waste their time suggesting alternative theories why all those Cure Wound spells actually function the way they do


Franz Lunzer wrote:

I've seen both variants. Can't remember where though.

Diablo has inventory on the right

Scarab Sages

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The Alpha's been released for Backers who added it to their pledge.


Still super ecstatic about this game!

Silver Crusade

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Ye!

Paizo Employee Developer

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There's a new feature trailer!


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LOOKS AWESOME!!!


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Sooooo looking forward to it!

Silver Crusade

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Beta is available, for all those that backed it, or went on the preorder site to get it!


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Just found out about this last week when reading the ACG blog which featured Nok-Nok, a goblin from the Kingmaker CRPG. Checked out the game and I am super excited!


I can't wait to get a hold of this!


Pre-ordered the regular game. Looking forward to seeing Kingmaker. Hopefully they support mods and such.

Silver Crusade

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Mod Support is on the list, but low priority right now.

Scarab Sages

Pre-ordered! Looking forward to trying it out :)

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