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May the odds be in everyone's favor!

Going to have withdraw as well. My apologies, Josh!

Got a Psychic Chelish Noble in mind for this. Kind of Emma Frost inspired. Stats are mostly done and aimed at making her a good Face and decent Librarian. Just need some time to finish the fluff. Hopefully be done by Saturday.

And here's that Varisian bard that mentioned back on page 1. Might also submit a cleric of Arshea as well for consideration if that's alright.


Zelda Cadiz
Female Human (Varisian) Bard 1
CG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Hero Points 1
Init +2; Senses Perception +4
AC 15, Touch 12 (+2 Dex), Flat-Footed 13 (+3 Armor)
HP 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +2; +1 against charm and compulsion effects.
Speed 30 Ft.
Melee Starknife +2 (1d4/x3) or Dagger +2 (1d4/19-20) or Light Mace +2 (1d6)
Ranged Sling +2 (1d4)
Special Attacks Bardic Performance 7 rounds/day (Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1)
Bard Spells Known (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st (2/day)—Cure Light Wounds, Saving Finale
0 (At Will)—Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 16
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 12
Feats: Lingering Performance, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Diplomacy +7, Knowledge (Arcane) +6, Knowledge (Geography) +6, Knowledge (History) +6, Knowledge (Local) +6, Linguistics +5, Perception +4, Perform (Oratory) +7, Sense Motive +4, Spellcraft +5; Armor Check Penalty -1
Traits: Nontraditional Native, Varisian Tattoo
Languages: Common (Taldane), Shoanti, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ: Bardic Knowledge +1
Combat Gear: Acid; Other Gear: Studded Leather, Starknife, Dagger, Light Mace, Sling, Sling Bullets (20); Backpack (Common), Bedroll, Belt Pouch, Flint and Steel, Ink, Inkpen, Iron Pot, Journal, Mess Kit, Rope (50 Ft.), Trail Rations (5 Days), Waterskin); 11 GP / 1 SP / 0 CP
Special Abilities
Bardic Knowledge (Ex) A bard adds half his class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard's Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by an illusion (pattern) or illusion (figment) magical attack may use the bard's Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform skill check proves to be higher.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (Su) A bard can use his performance to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him. Each creature to be fascinated must be within 90 feet, able to see and hear the bard, and capable of paying attention to him. The bard must also be able to see the creatures affected.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage (Su) An affected ally receives a +1 morale bonus on saving throws against charm and fear effects and a +1 competence bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls.

Favored Class Bonus: Bard (+1 Hit Point)


As a child born to a Varisian nomad clan, Zelda grew up listening to the oral history that her clan elders would tell by the campfire. Enthralled by these legends of sly tricksters, power mad wizards and ancient kingdoms, she yearned to one day uncover her own legends of the past and to tell them to an enraptured audience. To that end, a young Zelda decided that she wished to become a chronicler of the old tales just like her grandmother, Elder Jyla, the most venerable bard and storyteller of her clan. Going under her grandmother’s wing as an apprentice lore keeper, she learned the tales and myths of her clan, deciphering the allegorical renditions and seeing the true history underneath.

It was during this time that Zelda learned not only of the arcane power that lay within her people’s bardic arts but also of the complicated history that her people shared with the Thassilonian Empire of millennia ago. “Look here, child,” Elder Jyla said one night as she pointed at the cyclopean ruin that loomed over the caravan’s campsite. “Look here and heed my words. While this temple may have been made to inflate the vanity of the runelords, it was built by the enslaved. Giants, Shoanti, and even our ancestors were made to work onto death to see it finished. We may mock the mad wizards with our tales of clever Varisians, but we must never forget their evils lest they be repeated.”

Though the knowledge of her people’s former abject enslavement by the wizard rulers of Thassilon both chilled and enflamed her heart, Zelda could not help but want to learn more about this harrowing and mysterious era. Her grandmother tried her best to accommodate this desire, but as the years went by it became obvious the elder had taught her apprentice all that she knew. Seeing that her granddaughter was determined to learn more but was staying in the caravan out of a sense of clan obligation, the elder confronted Zelda one day and told her, “We are Varisians, Zelda. We should not force ourselves to stay in one place when our heart yearns for more. I may have taught you all I know, but there are others that know a bit more about the old wizards than your dear old grandmama. Go find them if you must. You have my blessing.”

And so, with that blessing and that of her parents and clan, Zelda finally departed the caravan in search of scholars that could teach her more, promising that when she returned it would be with a hundred new tales and histories to tell by the fire. Unfortunately, things did not go as smoothly as she had hoped. While not entirely naïve to the realities of the world outside of her clan’s caravan, Zelda could not have predicated just how low the “professional” scholars of Thassilon viewed Varisian accounts of the empire’s history. From Riddleport to Korvosa, the critiques and rejections were all the same: “Varisians are liars and peddlers. Spinning tales and nothing more. Nothing can be learned from the likes of them.” But even after rejection after rejection Zelda was still undaunted and continued to look for an institution that would take her on as a scholar.

Eventually, after some time travelling across Varisia, she learned of the Pathfinder Society’s chapter hall in the city of Magnimar, and of its willingness to take on even the most unorthodox of applicants. To Zelda’s great relief and excitement these claims would turn out to be. Now a junior member of the Society, Zelda eagerly awaits what will hopefully be the first in a long career of knowledge-expanding expeditions.

Appearance and Personality:

Zelda stands little over five and a half feet tall and often dresses in the styles of her people. Her frizzled hair is a long dark brown and her complexion is a light olive. Zelda’s expressive hazel-green eyes glim with excitement while her earnest smile tends to be contagious. She often speaks in an excited and lively tone whenever she finds something new. The Varisian scholar’s outfits are vibrantly colorful and tend to have tasseled elements that draw the eye. Her favorite outfit is a bloused bodice fitted with bright silken sashes. When in battle she usually wears a practical set of studded leather armor that only marginally impairs her movements.

Zelda is a remarkably kind and open-hearted young woman. Possessing a deep wanderlust and curiosity for the unknown, she is driven to learn as much as she can about the world and share those findings with anyone willing to listen. As such, she enjoys travelling and meeting new peoples and cultures, and earnestly believes that you can learn something valuable just by listening to other people speak about their culture’s histories on their own terms. Tellingly, she approaches her archeological studies in an unconventional manner that incorporates a Varisian respect for storytelling and oral history. Although she is no cleric, Zelda is a devout follower of the faith of Desna, believing strongly in the goddess’ teachings of exploration and freedom.

Age: 22 Height: 5 ft. 6 in. Weight: 125 lbs. Hair Color: Black Skin Color: Olive Eye Color: Green Build: Slender


Dotting. Got a Varisian Bard idea brewing.

My bad. Mixed up your names! I meant Renae being between Henric in the rear and Hal in the center.


Still working on the Shelynite Paladin. Stats are done and I'm taking my time writing the backstory and other fluff. I did have some mechanical questions, though, for you Squirrel Ninja.

1. Do are particularly stringent about Carrying Capacity or do you have that some leeway?

2. What's your thoughts on the Bladed Brush feat? Some people think it works with Slashing Grace to provide Dex to damage, but others think the specific wording of the feat prevents that. What's your take?


I plan on making a Paladin of Shelyn. She'll be a diplomatic Face as well as a front-line combatant who uses the Bladed Brush feat so she can rely on her high Dex for attacks. Will probably end up taking the Devoted Muse prestige class if allowed.

So I've decided to go with a Changeling Witch with some healing and debuff utility. I'm almost done with her stats and backstory, but I wanted to know whether carry capacity was strictly adhered to or would be given some leeway within reason.

I have two characters that I've been itching to see play, so I'm very interested in this. One's a aldori front-line (swashbuckler) striker and the other an arcane caster (witch) that can also do some emergency healing in a pinch.

Unfortunately, the former is from a class in Advanced Class Guide while the archetype is from Adventurer's Guide. Both are Core books but both were released after the anniversary edition. That means their not permissible, correct?

Do mundane spell-less Disguise roll effects have any duration? For instance, say you make an extraordinarily good Disguise roll that stumps every NPC's Perception. Can you just maintain that Disguise indefinitely for the rest of the game, or would you have to reapply your makeup (aka roll Disguise again) after a certain amount of time?

Realistically I would assume that you'd have to roll again once a day at least to represent you putting back on or adjusting your fatsuit, mask, makeup or whatever, but the rules seem to say nothing about that.

EDIT: I believe I accidentally put this in the wrong forum. My apologies if that is the case.

Hello, hello. Just want to start off by saying thank you for giving a lot of people here their first opportunity to really try out Pathfinder 2E, myself included! I really appreciate that, especially for a system so new. With that out of the way... Here's Aurelia Landon.

Ancestry - Half-Elf
Background - Dragon Scholar
Class - Sorcerer (Draconic)

Aurelia Landon has been obsessed with dragons all her life, and really, why wouldn't she be? Born to a duo of "eccentric" dragonologists from Taldor, Aurelia was constantly exposed to raw draconic power as her parents traveled the world in search of their chosen subjects, resulting in her developing fiery sorcerous powers. As Aurelia grew to adulthood, the would-be scholar yearned to step out of her parent's shadow and make a name for herself in academia.

Aurelia came to Isger, and eventually the town of Breachill, after hearing news of a gold dragon sighting in the area but quickly found herself adrift as the rumors, and her money, started to dry up. The simple fact is Aurelia needs more coin if she wants to continue her studies and travels, and the Call for Heroes seems like just the solution for her financial woes.


Thinking about playing a nerdy Dragon Sorcerer that unsurprisingly has the Dragon Scholar background.

Just binged watched season three. While I can't say all the plot elements worked and I do wish the season had ten episodes instead of eight, (a rather claim for me) the season ultimately came together at the end and had its needed emotional punch.

And yeah, it made me freaking cry. Again.

Character is coming under way. I have a human fey sorcerer specialized in enhancement spells in mind.

Got a few more questions:
1. Are you stringent when it comes to carry weight capacity, or do allow PC's to go over it so as long as it isn't too ridiculous?
2. Do you allow free class starting kits at chargen?
3. Would you like us too mention what Leadership Role we have in mind for our PCs or will that be dealt with later down the line?

Dotting in.

Quick question: In regard to the Bastard campaign trait, can half-elves, half-orcs, tieflings, aasimar, changelings and any such other hybrid races take it?

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I don't see the problem. If there's some new development in the lore that clashes with your preferred ideas or the outcomes of your group's AP than just ignore it at your table.

I don't see why that's so hard. Perhaps this is just a thing unique to the people that I play with, but in most of the instances when we've used a AP the story diverges to such a radical degree that by the third book that whatever "How to Continue the Campaign" or "Here's the New Status Quo" options became useless anyway.

So if your players didn't trust Sorshen and miraculously managed to kill her I don't see how Paizo taking another direction genuinely harms or inconveniences your table? Fine, Paizo won't be supporting that outcome. So what? Keep following your own timeline and didn't feel pressured by "canon" when it comes to telling the stories that you want to tell.

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I don't want this to devolve into a miserable political debate, but Dany is absolutist monarch whose claim to power derives from her bloodline. That's as far away from leftist sentiment as one can get, in my opinion.

Furthermore, the only thing about her that can arguably pass as leftist is her consistent anti-slavery actions and rhetoric, which SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED A LEFTIST ONLY POSITION. That is a decent human being position that shouldn't exclusive fit any one side of the political axis. Liberals and conservatives should both equally despise slavery as vile institution. Oh my God.

Fumarole wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:
There were clues about Dany being not such a good person all along, but they were somewhat ambiguous until Dany actually burned King's Landing.

Somewhat ambiguous? She threatened to burn Qarth to the ground way back in season two when she was denied entry. The only reason she didn't was that her dragons were far too small at the time. People who didn't realize she had this dark side to her all along only saw what they wanted to see because her advisors had been keeping her in check all this time. You know, those advisors who by episode 805 were all dead or who had failed/betrayed her.

This video has some great points, the main one being that many people are confusing what doesn't work for what they didn't want.

I think there's a difference between threatening to burn a city because your people will starve to death in the desert if they don't get in, to burning a city even after its already surrendered to you. The former is a very morally ambiguous decision born from sympathetic desperation that the audience can somewhat relate to, while the other is blatantly Stupid Evil act made by a crazy person.

I can't speak for anyone else but I think most peoples problem with Dany's turn isn't necessary because they wanted her to be a conventional heroine at the end of the show, but more to do with them being annoyed with how rushed her turn is and how it seems to exist solely to make Dany a pitch-black antagonist that needs to be stopped.

I think most people would have been satisfied with the turn if Dany started burning the city indiscriminately when it became apparent that Cersei's men weren't going to surrender no matter what, which would have made her decision slightly more ambigoius if still on the dark side. Then again, that still wouldn't explain why Dany and Drogon couldn't just burn and/or tear apart the Red Keep to get the Cersei to avoid destroying the rest of King's Landing, but hey, that's been an issue since Season 7 so why bring it up now, right. :)

Any and all Gods in the Outer Planes accept this universal greeting: Waaazzzzuuuuuupppppp!!!

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Iomedae: *Saluting* - "Reporting for duty, ma'am!"
Erastil: *Hugging* - "Hi Grandpa Erastil!"
Torag: *Nervously rubbing neck* "Um... I don't know how dwarves greet each other. What am I supposed to do here? Touch beards?"
Shelyn: *Gawking like a moron* - "Oh wow... I'm sure everyone tells you this but you're really, really, really pretty, miss."
Sarenrae: *Shielding eyes* - "Greetings, Your Holiness."
Cayden Cailean: *Fist bump and hug* - "Sup, bro. Wanna grab a drink before we go and punch some Asmodeans?"
Desna: "Sooooooooooo... Are you secretly a Great Old God? Also, could you put on some clothes? Hate to be a prude but you're... Kind of distracting and it makes it hard for me to talk. Or think, really."
Abadar: "Hello, sir. Do you think you explain to me what a mortgage-backed security is?"
Irori: *Bows head respectfully* "I'm honored by your presence and wish to learn much from you, Irori-Sensei."
Pharasma: Soooooooooo... Can I ask what happened to Aro- Hey, wait, what do you mean I gotta go back to the beginning of the line!?"
Gozreh: "Sorry about the whole pollution thing. I try to recycle but there isn't always a blue or green bin around."
Nethys: "Don't blast me. Please?"
Calistria: "Ok, weird question but you wouldn't be related to girl called Sera would you? She's an elf from another planet that likes bees and getting revenge on people."
Gorum: *Throws up peace sign* - "Ever tried to give peace a chance, Mister Lord in Iron?"
Asmodeus: *Drunkenly tries to punch him in the face*
Zon-Kuthon: "Nope. Nope, nope, nope." *Precedes to run away in terror*
Urgathoa: *Dry heaving* "Oh my god! Where the Hell is that smell something from and those flies! Oh, it's you... Awkward."
Norgorber: *Scratching head* "Huh? I thought he would be here. Let's get out here before- ARGH!" *Suddenly stabbed in the back by Norgorber in disguise*
Lamashtu: "Stay the heck way from me, you jackal-faced baby eater!"
Rovagug: Can't greet or address Rovagug because he's trapped in the Dead Vault. Also, he's not very talkative because he's an omnicidal monster.

ElegantlyWasted wrote:
And variant Aasimars are kosher, correct?

Yes. Phntm888 mentions it on the first page under Character Creation.

Have any of the other core gods allied with the newly ascended Nocticula? I could see Calistria and Shelyn doing so. Erastil, Iomedae and Torag... Not so much.

Cayden Cailean would be hilarious.

Dotting as well. There's an Enchanter Wizard with the Accidental Clone trait that I've been constructing for a while now and would to see get play.

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I think that's a fair criticism, xenocrat. Paizo isn't immune to using tired tropes like that. The whole redeeming the sexy baddie is a staple of the fantasy genre and we see it everywhere nowadays. I mean, half of Kylo Ren's appeal in the Star Wars fandom is this strange desire by fans for Rey to redeem him since he looks like Adam Driver, ignoring the fact he's an insane manchild. :P

That aside, I am more or less confident that Paizo will likely start turning away from this trope after awhile. Most people are unaware of the cliche and Paizo has used it enough that I'm sure even they're getting tired of it. Redemption stories are great! They can even work for horrific demon lords and runelords who probably violated and sexually exploited thousands upon thousands of people... I think? But when they come with the trappings of less than stellar genre conventions "Only beautiful people deserve the chance at redemption" they get stale and predictable rather quickly.

But Paizo has to know all that, so I'm sure we'll see less of it over time. Hell, maybe we already have there have been a bunch of "ugly" male baddies that have gotten their chance to be better?

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Sorshen's motivation to change is practical, if not exactly a riveting narrative of self-analysis and repentance for several lifetimes of evil. Not that I'm knocking it. It makes sense, especially since she's only going from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Neutral. I mean, if Gorum and Calistria prove anything its that Chaotic Neutral isn't that high of a bar to reach. :P

I still sort of wish there was more of an inciting incident for Nocticula's change other than "Being evil has gotten boring after countless eons." Arueshalae redemption was great because it had a sizable backstory and her continuing to make an active effort to undo some of the horrible things she's done. But just like in Sorshen's case, Nocticula's only going from Chaotic Evil to Chaotic Neutral, so her not needing that great or weighty of a push might make sense. Still, it would have been nice to have a story of Sarenrae or Shelyn reaching out to her and getting her to realize the futility of evil, or maybe her just looking at brother and realizing how much of a freak he is and how she doesn't want any part of that depravity anymore.

Of course, I still haven't read the this last adventure yet, so who knows what extra bits of lore gets dropped in them! He's to hoping there's a lot.

Also, thanks CorvusMask for dropping all this info for us. I really appreciate it.

Does the AP explain why Nocticula decided to "redeem" herself? Like, was there significant event or experience that brought out this change or did she just decide to start being less of a horrible person?

Given the flexibility of what Witch Patrons can be, would it make sense for Sorshen or Nocticula to be the mysterious force behind a Witch getting their familiar and arcane spells?

Is Sorshen's hair black or a very dark purple?

Might also end up doing a paladin of Arshea instead if I can think of a good paladin code for Arshea

I know its a bit late but I figured the forum the tradition should be continued anyway.

My game hasn't started yet but I'm thinking about playing a Archaeologist Bard with the Accidental Clone trait.

Voss wrote:

New least favorite companion: Nok Nok

I'm not sure why most rulers would take him along.

I'm not sure why his stats are so bad- He has two positive modifiers.
Max Dex and +1 Con, 3 negatives, including strength, of course. Between his stats and his class, he's pretty much going to fail any save that isn't reflex.

Oh, and he's a knife master rogue. I can see him doing damage, but such a one trick glass cannon...

I'm not sure why anyone in the capital or the party wouldn't just smother him in his sleep. He actively tells people he's Lamashtu's favored in the middle of a crisis.

Well my kingdom has freedom of religion as part of its Constitution, so baby-eating Lamashtu worshipers must be tolerated, I say!

Paizo's done if before. Remember when Erastil was a chauvinist?

Me too. Althrough I think Calistria covers most of her possible portfolio. Making her Chaotic Good instead Chaotic Neutral would be a more interesting change I think.

Basically what the subject title says. With the new edition being a thing, it seems like a great opportunity to talk about changes that could be made to flavor of some the core deities.

So far it seems many of them more still pretty much exactly the same, but I think that some could use an update. Like Erastil not only caring about rural communities and being mad when adventurers go out to fight
baddies out in the world. There's also Cayden Cailean portfolio probably needing to focus more on being a god of adventure and freedom instead of just drinking. And making Irori just Neutral now that the Monk restrictions to only lawful have been removed. Oh and Torag not being so genocidal would be nice too.

Those are my pet peeves anyone else have any ideas or suggestions?

I don't see how having hard alignment restrictions removes nuance in games. Sure the Cleric of Asmodeus has Lawful Evil on his sheet but that doesn't mean that his character can't have complicated reasons for why he follows Asmodeus. Furthermore, the Cleric may not see his actions or deity as Evil whatsoever.

Maybe he believes that the only way to create an ordered society is by enslaving the unworthy or ensuring that the masses don't have a say in anything. Yeah, that seems pretty Evil to us and likely the party of heroes trying to take him down but that doesn't mean he has to be a BWAHAHA villain. The nuance can still be expressed even through his arguments for why he sees the slavery of others as Good. The players can ultimately call him out on his b@++%~&~, but that still doesn't mean that the character doesn't have nuance in sense of having character motivations that go beyond just being an a$+*#$+ who worships a bigger a&$*@@*.

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I miss reincarnate.

I don't see Goblins being Neutral Evil psychos makes them unplayable and undeserving of being in Core. Not all campaigns are Good-aligned or even take place in Golarion.

Just because they're in the book doesn't mean you have to use them. Besides, I think having an "Evil" race in Core will help out tables that just want to play murderhobos. They deserve attention too after all.

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Seems to me that taking away Goblins murderous attitudes waters them down to point that there largely no different from Halflings or Gnomes when it comes to their wackiness.

Why take that away? Let them stay psychotic pyromaniacs. It might not work for some tables, but I think you still have them in Core while still retaining most of their original flavor without pulling a "Well, some tribes are Good or friendly" retcon.

Being evil is easy. Just be selfish. All evil is selfishness anyway, so do whatever benefits your character and don't give a damn who it affects others. Just try not to screw over your party.

Why couldn't this story be told as a sequel to the DS9 series? I'm just wondering because it seems to be me that they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by putting the show in the future than the past.

Tarik Blackhands wrote:
Orville Redenbacher wrote:
Any word on Rose's trial in the next film?
I think it got leaked that she'll get a stiff chewing out by the higher ups and demoted to janitor but she'll still have plenty of important side jobs to do because the brass likes her. Then she and Finn will combine their janitorial knowledge of the First Order and the Resistance to save the Republic.

Can't we just write her out of the story entirely? I think Star Wars can only handle so many characters and Rose is one to many.

This new trilogy should be about Rey, Finn, Kylo and maybe Poe. That's it. We don't need three different storylines and multiple arcs occurring all at once.

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Creon Vizcarra wrote:
Milozilla wrote:
The phrase "players drag a once-grand nation kicking and screaming into the modern day" kinda worries me. I really hope it doesn't have too many modern day political influences. Really kills the immersion when people bring that stuff into the game. But hopefully it just turns out to be What Jade Reagent should have been and have alternate routes for those that don't necessarily want to be the new monarchs Lapdogs.
Modern day in Avistan apparently means hereditary monarchies where no monarchs are married or have any legitimate (or even known) children. I'm serious; every monarch in the Inner Sea is single and has no known children, except for Stavian, which is kind of immersion breaking for me because of how dangerous that is for such a type of government. There was a reason Henry VIII went through six wives and it wasn't just a wandering eye.

Does that logic even still apply in a universe where people can be constantly resurrected from death and have their lifespan lengthened considerably?

Why bother fathering/mothering a bunch of brats to continue the dynasty when I can just live forever as an Immortal God-King/Queen.

Death is poor people after all.

MannyGoblin wrote:
Well since men have been kissing,hugging,groping women for so long in movies, turn about is fair play.

Not really. It was horrible and gross when dudes thought they could get away with (looking at you Han) and its horrible when woman try to get away with it. We should break the cycle because there is no such thing as fair play when it comes to this.

Anyone else kind of creeped out out that Rose kissed Finn without his permission or nonverbal consent?

Just watched the film again with my brother and I got to admit I liked it a lot more. Well, actually I just loced everything with Rey and Ren a lot more. I idea that Rey wanted to redeem Ren not only because she felt it was necessary but also because she was on some level attracted to him really added a lot more dimension (and sexuality) to the story. That said, I give even less of a s@~! about Poe, Finn and Rose's stories. They really feel like distractions from a much better story and the themes in them are cookie cutter and obvious. But, hey, Daisy Ridley's "your breaking my heart face" was still awesome.

Vidmaster7 wrote:
I actually really appreciated that rey's parents where nobodies all the endless speculation about it irritated the tar out of me.

I like that Rey's parent were nobodies but I really don't see how that twist is all that worthy of praise. Rey still is essentially a magical chosen one with abilities that only a small amount of people have and if Snoke is to believed she's has been chosen by the Light to bring down the Dark of the First Order.

The Star Wars story is still about metahumans with magic swords empowered by an all-powerful Force being at the center of an intergalactic conflict. Sure Finn, Rose and Poe are around but the narrative of the Last Jedi marginalizes them compared to all the Force users.

Really, if the sequel wanted to really change things Rey wouldn't be a Force user at all and would kick Kylo Ren's just using a blaster like a normal person.

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Black Dougal wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:

Daisey Riddley and Adam Driver trained pretty extensively in sword fighting (well, movie sword fighting).

This is pretty cool ...

Thanks for that Marc.

I thought the Throne room scene was the best action sequence of the movie. I think I would have enjoyed it more if I wasn't still annoyed that they just killed off Snoke in a predictable manner (it was easy to anticipate when you are told there are twists in the movie).

Isn't that a microcosm of the problem of the whole film? Twists that actually aren't twists but predictable 180s. Rey parents are no nobodies instead of someone important. Snoke isn't the main villain instead its Kylo Ren. Luke doesn't really train Rey to be a Jedi instead she's supposed to chart her own path or something. Kylo Ren isn't redeemed but instead takes over the First Order.

Did those twists really surprise anyone? I guess they did. Honestly, going into this film I just assumed that the plot would either play things straight or just do the opposite and thats what happened.

Sort of wish they did something really shocking and had Rey join the First Order or something. Wouldn't make a lot of sense but it would be interesting.

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