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3,806 posts. Alias of Hoary and Wizened.


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Psalm Nackle wrote:

That is true Jun. Items are a nice find and upgrade.

I never have an issue spending money though. I tend to have characters invest buying a tavern, refurbishing the ruined castle in Phandalin, hiring mercenaries to keep the countryside safe so the goblins can't regroup and screw with caravans again.

I'm going to echo this. In every long running campaign I've run, one of the goals for the PCs was to establish a base of operations, which usually happened through gifted lands (albeit in monster infested territory... to provide a reason to give the gift, and a reason for the PCs to be the people it was gifted too), titles, and even the ability, through the lands, to raise a steady income. Sort of like the Kingmaker adventure path. In those games, 10,000 gp could disappear overnight to building costs, renovation costs, purchasing seed for farmers if their fields were burned by bandits, etcetera.

As to "whacky" magic items... I think those definitely make the flavor of the game more intriguing, but, I would offer one small word of caution on a world where the only magic items are of the "whacky" variety. The problem with that is experimentation. It takes experimentation to create items with varied and unusual abilities, and before anyone could become good enough to create items like that, they almost HAD to start with simple magical infusions, i.e. that +1 sword, or shield or breastplate. So, while it might be more cool to find those strange and rare magic items, in a world where they exist, those more "simple" magic items would also HAVE to exist as well, and, probably be much more common purely by product of design experimentation. Ergo, don't be surprised if the first few magic items you find are, in fact, those boring +1 items. :)

Lastly, Jun, I really appreciate the idea of magic items being a "half-level" gift at those mid tier levels where it can take quite some time in game to level. I'll hold on to that advice. :)

Luna, tell me how you really feel about it. :P

Quint Rue wrote:
I've been in Pathfinder games where it was difficult to find a magic item, even if you have the money to buy it. It was pretty frustrating, especially in games that don't have a lot of changes of location to allow a reroll of the available items. If you're going to run a game that way, you need to eventually take your characters to a major city where they can find what they're looking for... unless you are hand-crafting the list of available items for story purposes rather than generating it randomly. If you do that, though, you have to be aware that because PF assumes the possession of magic items in the leveling-up of characters, you may be preventing a player from fully realizing their character concept (especially if the game starts at low levels, and thus they don't have a chance to buy essential items before play begins).

I think I might have been the DM of that game... O.o


If so, I fully accept that constructive criticism; it is, of course, one of the reasons I no longer DM Pathfinder.

I have some friends who are DMs of 5e games that are a LOT more freehanded with magic items, purely because they think they are cool. Which is fine, that is, certainly, a valid approach to playing. I have also heard from those same people, though, that the inclusion of magic items of even "average" power levels drastically changes the feasibility of the mathematics used when building encounters. In short, the numbers no longer matter. Anecdotally, one of my friends, who is so freehanded with magic items as treasure, said he's thrown encounters that were above 3x what the system considers "deadly," for his players' characters, and they handled them with ease.

I completely love that you used the words "grittier" and "realistic," as that has been my experience with the system as well, and was, when I made the switch, my estimation of how it would work.

For you, Quint, specifically, I would love to see how you roleplay effectively in situations where a traveler's anytool, sleeves of many garments, and or a handy haversack would preclude that necessity. Which is to say, I know you are capable of tackling any situation with the "tools" you currently have, it just might require a much more ingenious and outside the proverbial box plan of attack. :)

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Quint Rue wrote:
Edit: Not that we'll necessarily ever be able to buy a magic item, since 5e's rules don't assume that they will be available the way Pathfinder does. Hopefully we'll find some at some point, but the only ones we ever get might be special gifts from the DM, or taken off some BBEG after we defeat him.

To some this may seem like a flaw in 5e, but it is, without any doubt, one of the HUGE draws for me to this system. The absence of what, in 3.5 and then Pathfinder, became known as "the big 6," is wonderful! The rules themselves say that magic items are rare, quest items, and that purchasing one that you have found someone else owns, IF they are willing to part with it, might require a questing favor to that person, rather than just handing over a sack of platinum coins. This, I love. Will you all see a magic item at some point? I'm sure you will. There are too many amazing magic items in the DMG for me to ignore them. Sometimes I just like flipping through that book and reading about them. Certainly, there will be a time when the group finds a magic item, or maybe two, but to do so will be part of an epic tale of heroic deeds, traps bypassed, dungeon corridors cleared, and strange creatures defeated. So, pretty much playing Dungeons and Dragons. :P :)

Quint Rue wrote:
I meant that a lower history roll might be enough to get just that part of the information, because it would be more common knowledge among the residents of the city.

It might be common knowledge that there is a huge and wondrous clock on the Senate floor, but the knowledge that there is a maker's mark "A A" on it would, by no means, be common. As, again, it is not in an easily noticeable place. Specifically, the maker's mark on that huge "grandfather" style pendulum clock is on the back of the pendulum. There may be a number of people that have heard the rumor that there is a maker's mark with the letters "A A" on the clock, but a very few would know the name that is associated with it. Amotz is a complete recluse, a hermit, who prefers the company of metal and tools to people. All of his dealings with the public that adore his inventions happens through a shrewd manager who has learned to deal with his anti-social heart and mind, his one trusted confidant. :D

AS to Arthugh's jewelry... Worth: 2d100 ⇒ (5, 20) = 25 Looks like it's not as expensive as it looks. :) You can sell all the jewelry for 25 gp. Perhaps the fact that they are only "mildly" expensive, speaks to the actual prominence (meaning lack thereof) of Arthugh Ruroki. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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And no, that was not a challenge! >.>

Quint Rue wrote:
That pendulum clock sounds like something that might have a prominent maker's mark, rather than just one hidden in a shooting inside. If it does, and that clock is on public display, that piece of the information might be easier to come by than the rest.

Sure, you just have to do something that gets you invited to the Senate floor... Or break into the most heavily defended castle in all of Iewiuf... O.o

Just wanted to say, yes, of course, there is plenty of time before dusk, to do some shopping and what not. As for money, don't forget that everyone got another 75 gp from Captain Kyngral before disembarking The Sea Slipper.

@Hack... hold off on buying that armor, because... reasons. ;)

@Quint, if you want to have a bit of back and forth roleplay about the chronometer or for selling the jewelry, let me know. Otherwise I trust your narrative skills to write up those posts however you want. If you want to have some fun with it, you can go to multiple shopkeeps and have them roll History Checks. First one to get a 15 on the check knows the following.

DC 15 History Check about maker's mark 'AA.':
Amotz Arlytwondzhun (Gnome)
Master Tinker, his shop is private. He occasionally holds private galas for the rich and powerful to attend. You have to purchase a ticket just to get into those galas, as well as, obviously, having the requisite coin to possibly purchase any of his newest creations. There is a massive pendulum clock, a one of a kind, unmatched and unrivaled in all of Iewiuf, a thing of grandeur and wonder, on the floor of the senate that he made.

Anyone else that wants to purchase things, if it is listed on any of the tables in the PHB, you'll find it in the city. If you want back and forth role play, let me know, I'd love to. If not, as with Quint, I trust all of your narrative skills. Write it how you envision it. :)

Just make sure everyone narrates themselves in the common room of the Black Pegasus by dusk. :)

Quint Rue wrote:

Speaking of feats from other sources, there are a couple of feats from Unearthed Arcana that I'm thinking would be good for Quint to take later on (not for my 4th level ability bump, and maybe not even the one at 8th level, depending on how things go).

Specifically, I'm looking at Arcanist and Wonder Maker (assuming the GM allows Quint's half-rock-gnome heritage to qualify him for it).

Like I said, not something I'm hoping to take next level, so plenty of time, but I'm hoping that source (or at least those two feats from it) will become available in the future.

Just as an FYI for everyone, I will not be allowing anything from Unearthed Arcana. If, however, which has happened before, the same item, feat, ability, etc. is published in an official book, I would be open to discussing its inclusion in our game. If I purchased the a hard copy of whatever book housed the option, I'd almost assuredly allow it for our game.

I don't see anything game breaking about those two feats you've listed, Quint, but, I have seen several things that underwent a bit of editing/changing before they were taken from UA and actually published in a book as official content. I realize that's a "hard line" to take with possible options, but one of the reasons I left Pathfinder for 5e was my disgust with the level of bloat the system had taken on, most especially with character options. As of right now the only options on the table are from those books that I own a hard copy of, and I would fully expect that to continue to be the case. :)

@Luna, completely understand about the tattoo. You are right, of course, don't know what I was thinking. There's no way she'd let some dirty sailor tattoo her body with a dirty needle and suspect inks. :)

@Hack, totally agree. Radiant it is.

@Psalm, got it!!

@Quint, no worries, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too difficult to actually find somebody in Rydwyrna that has a familiar to talk to about the process by which they acquired it. Heck, you might be able to use some of your newfound clout with Senator Akassa to have one of her underlings/lackeys teach you and give you the required components. :)

Looks like we're just waiting on Jun and then I can get things moved ahead. Fun things are on the horizon. :)

Psalm Nackle wrote:

Sorry you lost me.

The Players Hand books says I have 4 1st level Slots and 2 2nd level slots. My Wisdom Mod and level also total 6. I have 4 1st level spells prepared currently and 2 2nd level. That is a total of 6. The other spells are circle spells with classify as always prepared?

Is there something I am missing or reading wrong?

Psalm, I currently show you with 5 first level spells prepared. That must be where we're getting our wires crossed. As I said earlier. Here's what I show for first level spells prepared. Level 1: Cure Wounds, Entangle, Goodberry, Healing Word, Thunderwave. You do have the capability of having six spells memorized of any mixture between first and second level, but you can only cast two spells out of second level slots. If you want both Hold Person and Moonbeam, I'll need to ditch one of the currently prepared 1st level spells. Just let me know how you want to proceed there.

@Hack, sounds great. That extra 1d6 damage, do you want that radiant or necrotic? Flavor-wise for the setting, it would most likely be radiant, but I could see an argument for Saxwyn using necrotic damage, since, you are, after all, trying to kill whatever it is you're hitting. :)

Psalm wrote:
My corrected 2nd Level regularly prepped spells are Hold Person and Moonbeam.

In order to have both of those prepped, I'd need to get rid of one of your first level spells? As it stands, you have only one "new" slot for preparation.

@Luna, just read your element attuning post! Great stuff!!! You also have inspired me. :) Take inspiration!

@Hack, everything from the PHB and Xanathar's Guide are open for you to choose from. :)

@Nikeisha, I'd never even seen that Healing Elixer spell. I have to say, as nice as it would be to be able to create a healing potion just by using a spell slot, I think that spell would feel very useless at higher levels. Though, I guess you could just replace it with a different one when you leveled up, which is allowed. Regardless, I want to keep options for this game to just PHB, DMG, MM, and XGE for now, as those are the only physical books I own. Thanks! Also, Nikeisha, I'd love to see a narrative post that shows your imagination of your Archfey patron conjuring that Book of Shadows for you to use. :) Maybe as the crew are cutting up the remaining Merrow to cook and eat, a grizzly tome spills out of one of the creature's guts, and Nikeisha's name is scrawled across the binding? Just an idea, however you imagine it would be awesome to read. Thanks!

Psalm Nackle wrote:
Added second level spells. Spike Growth and Spider Climb is from Circle of the Land and are always prepared. Assuming no special need I also have Erupting Earth and Call Lightening prepped.

Psalm, some problems here. First, both Erupting Earth and Call Lightning are level 3 spells, which you do not have access to yet. Also, my records show that you have only one more "new" available slot for spell preparation.

My records currently have you with these spells prepared: Cantrips, these cannot be changed: Guidance, Poison Spray, Thorn Whip; Level 1: Cure Wounds, Entangle, Goodberry, Healing Word, Thunderwave; Level 2: Spider Climb and Spike Growth (Circle of the Land: Mountain Terrain--cannot be changed, unless you pick a different terrain), with one more open slot for a prepared spell of first or second level. Let me know how you want to go there.

@Luna, Quint is correct. As per the PHB pg. 80: "A discipline requires you to spend ki points each time you use it." The Elemental Attunement is, in fact, the first discipline that you learn when taking the Disciple of the Elements tradition at 3rd level. Also! Not sure if you saw this or not?

PHB pg. 80, Way of the Four Elements wrote:
Many monks of this tradition tattoo their bodies with representations of their ki powers commonly imagined as coiling dragons, but also as phoenixes, fish, plants, mountains, and cresting waves.

What better place to get a tattoo on her than aboard ship with a bunch of tattooed sailors! I'm sure one of the crew would be happy to give such a beautiful and physically fit Elven princess a tattoo of whatever she desired. :) Plus, that is such a great narrative hook for the level up. I see Luna going to meditate after her watch is over, and having a lucid dream where she transforms into a fire salamander or something, and when she "awakes" from the dream, her body is wreathed in flames that don't burn her. Then as she stretches and performs her katas in the morning, she finds she can manipulate the fire sending it out as an extension of her martial arts!!!! Realizing this new ability granted her by the Light, Luna could then express her desire to get a tattoo as a mark of her achievement in the martial ways. :) Narrative leveling. It's the best!!!

Speaking of which! Quint! Loved the narrative explanation for your new spells and powers. Excellent job blending the narrative with the mechanical. Take inspiration! :) To all others, if you are so inclined, I would love to read a post that gives a narrative hook for your character's new abilities and powers. Revelatory dream sequences are an easy way to accomplish that if you have trouble coming up with a manner in which to blend the mechanical and the story. If you want help formulating ideas, please let me know, I'd be glad to help. :)

Still waiting on level up stuff from Hack, and Jun before I fast forward things to the wharf in Rydwyrna.

Quint Rue wrote:
Question: If Jun took a withdraw and only moved back only 5ft, and the merrow followed him, but couldn't get all the way onto the main deck, would if have disadvantage or take any other penalties for being precariously balanced on the edge of the forecastle, with two sets of stairs at different heights underneath it?

You assume that Merrow would follow him in that way. That's a pretty presumptuous assumption. Why wouldn't it just move at and attack the other crew member on the forecastle deck? If, for whatever reason, it did move halfway down the stairs, I would, yes, impose the squeezing penalties on it, but Merrow have an 8 Intelligence score, they aren't dumb animals. It would know that moving into such a position would come with tactical disadvantages (pun intended,) and avoid it.

Also @Hack, you're up in the initiative. You can put that thing out of its misery whenever. ;)

Quint Rue wrote:
See my action above.

Ha! I remembered it and got to posting before you posted this. :) Sorry again for the confusion there. I had forgotten you written that contingent post.

Milestone leveling in a module like this is entirely appropriate, and, I know you know this about me, I prefer DM determined milestone leveling anyway. So if you'd prefer to just level us up according to the module's dictated milestones, that would be just fine. :)

Also! Storm-meister. I sympathize and empathize with your boredom at work. Thankfully my job does not put restrictions on what I can do on my computer. :D However, back when I was actually concerned about job security (read: didn't watch Netflix on company time :P) I turned to reading books in my browser as a way to deal with the hours spent without something proactive to do. This website has a consortium of public libraries that all have selections of electronic books, many of which you can read right in your browser. If you have a library card at one of the libraries in the consortium, you can check out the electronic books and read them right on the computer screen (if it's available in browser read format). If that doesn't work for you, there a NUMBER of online creative writing communities, a place for amateur authors to submit their work for feedback and constructive criticism. One such, the Den of Amateur Writing, has a decent section of fantasy fiction to take a look at. They have other categories of material as well, but fantasy is my favorite genre, for obvious reasons. XD Hope that helps you combat the boredom.

Stormstrider, I don't want to start an edition war here, but, this very discussion is one of the things that I very much like about how 5e is streamlined for combat. In 5e if you use your action to ready any kind of action, when the trigger for that action comes, you must have available your reaction. If you have used your reaction for any other thing, like say an OA (that's what they're called in 5e), you then LOSE the readied action, though you could "reset" the ready action by using your action again on your turn in the initiative. As you say, that seems much more realistic. Of course Tabletop RPGs and realism are two things that mix about as well as oil and water. :P Just thought I'd point out one of the reasons that, as a DM, I left Pathfinder... almost a year ago now(!), and have never looked back. :D

Bellaluna 'Luna' Liaqirelle wrote:
Mended, one of my friends is playing in another 5E game and using Hero Lab, and I know he has mentioned that HL has a lot of discrepancies or lacking info for 5E, but Lonewolf (HL's company) told him about another source to get those things updated. I'll check with him asap (Have to wait 'til I'm home - And see if internet's working!) to contact him and get that info hopefully.

Thank you Luna, I'll be very interested in knowing about that.

Quint was that attack on the "red-striped" Merrow? The one that Luna had Bloodied?

Quint Rue wrote:
Also note that the "leaving a creature's reach" language means that you can move around all you want while remaining within a character's reach and not provoke.

Correct! As long as you are still within the reach of a creature, you can run circles around it without provoking OAs.

Quint Rue wrote:
MendedWall12 wrote:
The Merrow's have 10' reach...
Are you sure about this? Large creatures don't seem to automatically get 10ft reach in 5e the way most of them do in Pathfinder. If this is the case, I'll have to move another 5ft with my disengage.

I checked, and the books do in fact say 5' reach, while the Hero Lab monster says 10'. I only glanced at the book entry, saw that it was suitable, and then "uploaded" the Hero Lab creatures into the portfolio for combat and was basing everything off of the stat blocks there. Thank you for pointing this out Quint.

Note to all, I was wrong, the Merrows have only a 5' reach, even though they do take up 10' of space. As Quint pointed out, that is actually pretty frequent in D&D 5e. I'll make sure to check the HL entries against the actual book entries in the future.

Nikeisha wrote:
I'll grab a Potion of Healing, because it's a good idea to not die. I'll also sell my old Studded Leather armour. That should leave Nikesha with 75 gp.

Nikeisha you threw me for a loop with the selling of the armor. Then I looked and realized you took the Armor of Shadows Invocation, which grants the ability to cast Mage Armor at will without using a spell slot. Not too shabby. :) My assumption there is that Nikeisha would, as long as she's awake, just keep casting that spell as often as necessary to keep it active. So her AC would always be 17, unless she was attacked while sleeping, or in some kind of dead magic zone. :) Sound good?

Quint's clarification in regards to Nikeisha's actions made me want to seize the opportunity for some 5e teachable moments. Especially since it has been a while since we've been in combat and a couple of our party members are brand new to 5e. :D

PHB pg. 195, Ranged Attacks in Close Combat wrote:
Aiming a ranged attack is more difficult when a foe is next to you. When you make a ranged attack with a weapon, a spell, or some other means, you have disadvantage on the attack roll if you are within 5 feet of a hostile creature who can see you and who isn't incapacitated.

One thing about that, that I've seen mentioned in a few other places, is that it is not being within another creature's reach or threatened area that creates the disadvantage, it is only being within 5' of a creature that can see you and is not incapacitated. So, for instance in the current combat. The Merrow's have 10' reach, and you could be 10' away from them and make a ranged attack or cast a spell without incurring the disadvantage.

Then, in regards to Opportunity Attacks...

PHB pg. 195, Opportunity Attacks wrote:
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack interrupts the provoking creature's movement, occurring right before the creature leaves your reach. You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don't provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe's reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.

Some highlights I want to reiterate. OA's in 5e happen ONLY when you leave a hostile creature's reach. Making an OA requires the use of your character's reaction, of which, unless you have a special class ability, you only get one per round. Which means, if you chose to use your reaction to make an OA, you could not, in that same round, use your reaction to, for example, cast Hellish Rebuke. This has come up at my tabletop game, in various situations, so make sure you want to use your reaction before declaring the desire to make an OA. Also, and this too came up at my tabletop game, there are spells and abilities that move a creature against their will, one example is the Thorn Whip cantrip. If a creature or character is moved out of the reach of a hostile creature via such means, that movement does NOT provoke an OA (because it is not using the creature's/character's movement speed). An interesting "corner case," so to speak, is the Bard Spell (also Warlock's with the Great Old One Patron) Dissonant Whispers. That spell specifically states that on a failed save the target of the spell must use its reaction (if it still has one) to move as far as its speed allows away from the caster. That movement WOULD provoke OAs if the target left the reach of any hostile creatures. :)

I hope the relevant text helps for future reference. Oh, also wanted to say, not a big deal at all, but in 5e the action Nikeisha took is called the Disengage action, not Withdraw. Simple nomenclature, but worth noting. :) Now to see if the Merrow can kill someone. :P

Quint Rue wrote:

I might still write that piece as a flashback and end it with the messenger finding Quint and hurrying him off to the ship.

By all means, please do.

@Luna, it is my understanding of the Monk class that you can either take the 1 extra attack as part of the Martial Arts ability, OR, but not both, the 2 attacks from the Flurry of Blows Ki use ability. Both of those abilities use your bonus action, of which, you only have one. Meaning, you'd either make 2 attacks using the bonus action for the "extra" unarmed strike, or 3 attacks using the bonus action to make the 2 "extra" attacks from the Flurry of Blows ability. I hope that makes sense. Since it has been way too long since we've been in combat what I'm going to do is just ignore the first attack (the one that missed) take your actions as using the Flurry of Blows, and taking the three successful hits and all the damage. :) Good job! As to Luna's actions aboard ship, ummmm... my mother always told me if you can't say anything nice, you shouldn't say anything at all... Your guess as to what Luna probably spent her time doing, was in keeping with my thoughts. Not that she wouldn't work if asked, but that she, no doubt, felt the menial labors of the sailors were very beneath her station and status. :) If you feel Luna would have instead "pulled up her highborn skirts" so to speak and gotten down and dirty with Kyngral's crew, then that's exactly how we'll imagine it. Leaving it open and unsaid, we are capable of "re-writing" her time aboard the Sea Slipper as you see fit. :D ;-)

Realized something as I was gearing up (pun intended) to make a forward-pushing in-game post... An update of gear in my Hero Lab portfolio is necessary before the push. Examples: Quint bought some armor and tools, and I know a couple people wanted to purchase some healing potions as well (not a terrible idea...). I know that others had a few things they wanted to purchase while in town. So, my post is going to REALLY push things forward, and I want to have everyone's gear updated before we get into that push. I'm still going to post the pushing entry, but we can hold off on engaging in those elements until everyone has satisfactorily updated their inventory.

My recollection is that everyone got 83 gold pieces from the Mayor's gifted cache, correct? I'm going to put that money on everyone's character sheet, and you can spend it as you see fit, or not at all. Please, here in Discussion, give me a list of any new items your character purchased in Blueblossom Haven before departing. I'll make the adjustments in Hero Lab, and then we can get into the combat. What's that? Combat? Yes, I know, been a while, right? In fact, my records show that the last time we were actually engaged in combat was the end of May! Perhaps that's why we lost so many people between then and now... Regardless, the upcoming combat, I think, will be challenging, and memorable. :)

Give me a list of purchased items at your earliest convenience. Thanks!

Okay, my vote is for NOT rescuing the goblin that may or may not be Grugiz. There are many factors in my decision to cast that sealing vote, none of which I am at liberty to reveal. I realize that this means three of you have to come up with some in-game rationale for your character changing their mind. I'm going to try to help that with a bit of in-game "forcing." It is never ideal to force players to make choices that they do not find in keeping with their characters, but, trust me when I tell you, this is the safest choice for this party.

Nikeisha? Jun? If either of you is a no, it's a no, and we can move onto riding a boat down the River of the Republic, or the Red River if you're a Highlander. :)

A row of very expensive glass windows in the back of the shop all had drawn curtains. So Quint couldn't really tell what was on the second floor, but most people don't put nice glass windows in their storage spaces... O.o

Quint Rue wrote:
Hopefully we don't end up with a 3-3 split...

L. O. L. HA! That would be the perfect "conclusion" to this matter, an impasse. :P If that's the case, I, the DM will cast the deciding vote. :) DM's privilege. :D

Quint Rue wrote:
Btw, don't bother saying "I will go along with the majority". We need a simple "yes" or "no" from each person so we can resolve this. Part of the reason this has taken so long is that not everybody is giving a straight answer. Nobody has issued a flat-out refusal to participate, so unless someone says otherwise, the assumption is that if the group votes to rescue him, everyone will participate. Ok?

Agreed. I think part of the problem is that everyone has been a little too amiable. Nobody want's to step on anyone else's toes, so nobody is willing to flat-out state what they really want. That level of selflessness is unprecedented, and is just the characteristic needed for a game that stands the test of time!!! :) So, pat yourselves on the back for your selflessness. Then be selfish and say what YOU the player, really want to do here. :)

You forgot the always viable option ...

Run off screaming, pulling out your hair, raving about "Unstoppable corruption of the innocents!!! RUN!!! Save yourselves!!!"

I just wanted to point out that the character who has come from a huntering-gathering/farming background, is looking at the character that came from privilege and went on to more privilege, and desires, very strongly, to, if I'm reading things correctly, kill him. To kill him, mostly, because he has a sneaking suspicion that the man of privilege gained most or all of that privilege by treading on the dignity and backs of "lesser" men, and through clandestine dishonesty. :D That, my friends, is a VERY accurate representation of a lot of reality. Which, the art representing life, not the actuality of disparate wealth, tickles my heart. :D

Jun Valanthe wrote:
I went off to see about either purchasing or renting a wagon a while back.

I either missed that, or completely blanked on it afterwards. Blueblossom Haven is big enough to have a horse trader, and a wainwright, so purchasing a horse or two, and a wagon is easily doable. Renting, though, is not something anyone in all of the Republic would do, as a business. The environment is too dangerous to rent a horse or wagon that you might never see again. That's different, though, than hiring a coach or cab to take you from place to place. That is a service offered in all towns of a certain population, and carriages from one city in the Republic to another are also available, albeit pre-booked, and with half payment in advance, but that's not what you're talking about. At this point I do believe a vote for or against attempting to rescue the goblin assumed to be Grugiz is in order.

So far we have 2 of 6 against. Two more "nay" votes would carry it to a no. Does leaving a helpless victim in captivity have some moral ramifications? Yes, but that is something that makes the world very real. Moral grey areas exist in many people's lives now and again. In a world that is this dangerous and corrupt, certainly moral conundrums will happen quite often. Perhaps leaving a goblin in captivity is something that will weigh on some party member's conscious and drive their motivations moving forward, perhaps not, perhaps the differences between those two ethical egos will make for some excellent intra-party role play discussion...? :D

I'll move things forward whenever you all decide. In the short term, Jun, you can easily notify the group that you found a place to purchase a wagon and another to purchase a horse or two, if that is really what everyone wants to do.

OH! Also, I was reminded by one of our intelligent party members that you can rotate images in Google Drawings... I'm an idiot. I have since rotated the map on the Battle Grid so that East is right and West is left, as it should be. :P That was a most stinky brain fart, that was... My apologies.

Quint Rue wrote:
Any details he can learn about the chronometer that I should work into the next piece, or should I pause for some back-and-forth when I get to that point?

Hmmmm, good question. Let me see.

Int:History Check Lira: 1d20 ⇒ 14
Int:History Check Roy Reginald: 1d20 ⇒ 7

If you mention to Lira that you found the initials "A A" inscribed into the inner workings of the chronometer, she'll have a vague recollection that there is a fancy-schmansy artisan in Rydwyrna who might have those initials, though she can't really remember for sure. A gnome, she thinks, but, again, isn't sure. If it's the one she's thinking of, she's heard rumors that he's a complete recluse and that his items aren't even sold in shops, but are sold at high-end auctions, where you have to pay hundreds of gold pieces just to be allowed into the venue to bid.

I find myself having to ask... What wagon...? Cause, a wagon is 35gp, and one draft horse is 50gp... And there's nobody in Blueblossom Haven that's going to rent a horse and wagon. That's 85gp of your earnings to try and pull off a goblin rescue mission... Is everybody on board with that?

Edit: And the answer is no, Boddynuck and Lindaer will be gone, very shortly. :)

Quint Rue wrote:
lots of stuff...

Quint, that's all golden, wonderful, stuff. Great roleplay elements, and a keen eye for the fine details. Love it, love it, love it. Vadela is female, and a half-orc to boot! :) She's not the only armorer in town, though, even though I haven't devised another location, I'm certain there would be more than one in Blueblossom, because it is a jumping off point for adventure in the northern and eastern parts of the Byrthelm. But, I'm figuring Quint is going to want to scope out Vadela's anyway, because of it's proximity to Galador's, right? Regardless. I trust your instincts as far as any back and forth, so if you want to post both parts of any conversations between Lira and Quint, and Vadela and Quint, I'm completely fine with that. One note on that end though. The Republic has enough small sized citizens that finding a suitable suit of leather-based armor would not be a problem. That doesn't mean, though, that Quint wouldn't want to still make a few adjustments to a suit to suit his needs. :)

To all! I finally have a few spare minutes this morning, and I'm planning on getting to work on maps and a decently lengthy narrative post to get rid of Boddynuck and Lindaer. Should be up before morning's end. :) Thank you all for your patience. :)

I've been at tables that also lost players due to "how do we decide what to do with the treasure" discussions, which, really, I mean really really, is sad... It's a game. The imaginary wealth of an imaginary character should NEVER interfere with real human relationships. Since that is the case, I've actually found that it is the very rare and selfless group that can pool their money. So, if you were looking for my advice, I'd say, split it up evenly, maybe with the two left over going to the rogue because... shady characters. :P As to the VAST CHASM of difference between the way 5e handles character wealth and the way Pathfinder (which you can't blame Paizo for because they adopted the 3.5 rules) handles them... Yes, there is designed to be a vast difference.

Excerpts from the DMG about treasure:

Chapter 7, Treasure>Magic Items: Excerpt
Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise, most magic items are so rare that they aren't available for purchase. Common items, such as a potion of healing, can be procured from an alchemist, herbalist, or spellcaster. Doing so is rarely as simple as walking into a shop and selecting an item from a shelf. The seller might ask for a service, rather than coin. In a large city with an academy of magic or a major temple, buying and selling magic items might be possible, at your discretion. If your world includes a large number of adventurers engaged in retrieving ancient magic items, trade in these items might be more common. Even so, it's likely to remain similar to the market for fine art in the real world, with invitation-only auctions and a tendency to attract thieves. Selling magic items is difficult in most D&D worlds primarily because of the challenge of finding a buyer.

Plenty of people might like to have a magic sword, but few of them can afford it. Those who can afford such an item usually have more practical things to spend on. See chapter 6, "Between Adventures," for one way to handle selling magic items.

Chapter 6, Between Adventures>Downtime Activities: Excerpt
Few people can afford to buy a magic item, and fewer still know how to find one. Adventurers are exceptional in this regard due to the nature of their profession. A character who comes into possession of a common, uncommon, rare, or very rare magic item that he or she wants to sell can spend downtime searching for a buyer. This downtime activity can be performed only in a city or another location where one can find wealthy individuals interested in buying magic items. Legendary magic items and priceless artifacts can't be sold during downtime. Finding someone to buy such an item can be the substance of an adventure or quest.

So, it if takes a readjustment of thinking to come to grips with the distribution of wealth in 5e, then now is a good time to start that cognitive recalibration.

On narrating the purchasing and selling of mundane goods... I have zero problem with it. I would just remind everyone of the few "named" places that have been part of the story already. Galador's Goods, Vadela's Vestments (this is actually the weapon/armor smith that is directly adjacent to Galador's via the alley), Burga's Buthcery (provisions), Coastal Coster Trading Company (dock warehouse), Temple of Light (religious services), the Prancing Stag Inn and Tavern, and The Bloody Dagger. Please, by all means, feel free to invent a few other shops if you so desire, just do me a favor and either bold the names of any NPCs or places you create, so I can find them quickly and add them to my ever-growing database. :)

There is a VERY SLIM chance that I will have time this afternoon to create a map of Blueblossom Haven and the smaller "adventure site" map of the particular streets and alleys in question. More likely though, judging by the amount of work I have left to perform this week, it won't be until Friday afternoon.

Have fun!

Everybody, I wanted to pop in and apologize for not getting a map up, and to let you know that it might not be up until Thursday or Friday. I was off on Friday, and unfortunately came back to a LOT more work than I had anticipated. I will most likely be busy at work, with work, until late Thursday morning, or maybe even Friday. Sorry for the delay on that. Speaking of Boddynuck and Lindaer, since it does look like we're losing Lindaer as well. This current situation seems like a most opportune time to "lose" them, due to moral conflict with the current path. So, when I do post the map, I will also be narrating their hasty and unstoppable exit. :) See you all later this week, and I apologize again for me being the delay here.

Okay, a map is most definitely in order then. Problem now is I have a busy rest of this week/weekend, and most likely will not have a chance to put that together until Monday... Apologies. I try to never be the guy holding up the show, so to speak, but in this instance, I'll have to be. I'll do my best to get a suitable map of the town, and then more specifically the area in question, uploaded by Monday afternoon. Have a great weekend everybody!

The smith is two story on one part, that houses the shop and apartments of the smith, attached to the one story "outdoor" (one wall, support beams, and a roof) forge on the other.

Quint, this was the description I gave the last time Quint went through the alley... Squeezed in the middle of a stack of sealed barrels in the back of the local smith, he can see the back entrance to Galador's Goods. Which is when his real problem presents itself. Galador is clearly no fool. There is zero clutter outside the back of his shop. No crates, not even empty crates. No barrels, of any kind. Not even a few tall blades of grass. There's even a burned wood sign nailed to his stout, oak and iron back door that reads, "Shipping entrance only! Pull rope for assistance. All customers please enter from Main Street entrance. Thank you." There is a rope that dangles from a pulley right next to the door's handle, a rope that no doubt goes inside the back of the shop to some bell or other chime. Quint, having an extensive knowledge of such things, sees that the door is likewise doubly locked, the handle has a locking mechanism and there is a bolt latch above it that is most certainly locked as well. Unlocking things takes time and patience, and unlocking the door of Galador's shop with zero cover from wandering eyes is not a great prospect...

Psalm, Blueblossom Haven is a "town" according to the definition of settlements in the DMG on pg. 17. I don't have a proper map for it, though I could use any of a number of random city generators to produce one if you so desired, to give a visual to your schematics? If you'd like me to do that, just let me know. In my own head there is a major north-south route just east of the docks, and a major east-west route that leads from the docks out into the eastern parts of the Republic. The town itself has a about two dozen streets set up in a standard grid parallel to the two main Provincial thoroughfares. As to traffic, when the weather is nice, there is generally a decent amount of hustle and bustle around from shop to shop as well as traffic flowing in and out of town via the roads and the docks. Galador's goods faces the main east-west thoroughfare, with an alley behind that it shares with the backs of the buildings that are on the street behind it. Does that help?

I cannot recall ever being tied up... O.o

Stormstrider, I'm going to argue with you on the sleeping/tying up thing, for two reasons. One, the Sleep Spell, calls out that it is a standard action, specifically an application of the Aid Another action, to wake up someone. Obviously I'm not going to be "aiding" an enemy. Which means that waking an enemy would fall under that "slapping or wounding." Which is the second reason for my argument, slapping or wounding an enemy in Pathfinder happens very specifically, via the loss of HP. Might it "hurt" when you tie someone up in real life? Sure, but as the most recent discussions have very well proven, the rules of Pathfinder are not even remotely designed to simulate reality. They are rules for a game wherein the players do their best to approximate an alternate reality. There are no rules that say binding a person with rope causes them to lose hit points. If you would like to make such a rule, I would not be opposed to that, because it would mean that if our characters were likewise knocked unconscious and attempts were made to tie them up, then we would wake up and could combat our own capture just as easily.

More specifically, slapping someone in Pathfinder would be an application of the unarmed strike rules, and wounding someone, in general, I would think is simply a clarification of what it means to lose HP. If, however, we want to look for specific situations in the rules that discuss wounds, the most thorough place is the Heal Skill listing. This skill has two applications that have the term "wound" used. One for wounds taken from caltrops, the Spike Growth spell, or the Spike Stones spell. All those entries are specifically in relation to the speed of a character being permanently changed because of wounds suffered during HP loss. The other instance is the "treat deadly wounds" entry, and that actually does specifically say that a successful check to treat deadly wounds is accomplished by the restoring of hit points.

I realize, sometimes, as a DM it can be frustrating to have NPCs knocked unconscious through magic, and then bound against their will, but also, as a DM, sometimes having the PCs knocked unconscious through magic, and bound against their will, is a necessary tool to further the story. Reality may agree with your assertion on the matter, but the rules do not, at least insofar as my reading of them goes.

That's my 2cp anyway. :) Thanks for reading.

So my calculations show that it is either option one or two, though everyone agrees option three would be fun. Therefore, when I get a chance later, I'm going to fast forward things to the mayor's office. Once there you can all decide how much to tell him, and we'll go from there.

LOL. Thanks for that Quint. :)

Me, coy? I do declare!

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