Yeah............there are several weapons that i can only hope get a long look in the future. Starting with this one.
Yes yes please
Shameless bump since the Dev team is active today.
Well we got an answer on the mithril question. And one other i think.
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Shameless bump since the Dev team is active today.
Oh, <the Design Team is certainly aware>:
Despite not being in the RPG line and thus not FAQable, freebooter has taken control from the scorpion whip! But mithral, light and stealthy, manages to grab the FAQ, leaving Light and Darkness to wait at least until we stop doing Unchained blogs before it slinks back out of the darkness
[...]
Will scorpion whip take the FAQ next week, or will it be taking 10 on Knowledge checks, or something else? Find out next week on FAQ Friday!
Shameless bump since the Dev team is active today.Oh, <the Design Team is certainly aware>:
Despite not being in the RPG line and thus not FAQable, freebooter has taken control from the scorpion whip! But mithral, light and stealthy, manages to grab the FAQ, leaving Light and Darkness to wait at least until we stop doing Unchained blogs before it slinks back out of the darkness
[...]
Will scorpion whip take the FAQ next week, or will it be taking 10 on Knowledge checks, or something else? Find out next week on FAQ Friday!
Sweet there is hope.
*does his summon Paizo Devs dance*
Please Paizo, Devs. We are looking for an answer on the Scorpion Whip. These are things that have desperately needed to be answered for years an have never been made clear. I know it is just one weapon but there are a lot of people waiting to use this pending a ruling but unwilling to use it without one due to the dreaded "table variation".
I think most of these could be answered if we simply asked:
Could you give a description of everything that a Scorpion Whip can do without referencing the Whip....then, tell us what it can also do if you have the Whip Proficiency without referencing the Whip.
But if you have to have it in sections then consider these questions, please:
1) Does it function with Whip feats, such as Whip Mastery, or Weapon Focus(Whip)?2) Can you deal nonlethal, without penalty?
3) Does it threaten?
4) Does it provoke when used?
5) Is it finessable?
6) Can it be enchanted, as a whip?
I'll add a couple more:
7) Does it have reach? How much? Does it threaten within all of it's reach?
8) What special materials can it be made out of?
9) Which feats that apply to Whips can apply to Scorpion Whips? (Whip Mastery line of feats, Weapon Focus, etc.)
I presume that it does all that you ask for.
I mean, it is a whip, so, all of those things that can be aplied to it, it can be done with this version, as i see this, the scorpion whip is a masterwork piece of whip. so... don´t worry, at the end, your gm must decide if it is or not the same.Rules As Writen is a cheapest way to see the game at all
Rules As Intended are a little bit more flexible to achieve your character conception.
Rules As Fun is the best way to see the game: if something isn´t fun or cause a lot of confusion, then, my dear, you must drop it and find another path, to achieve what you desire/need for your kind of game.
Well what you may not realize is that in PFS I might have different GM each time i play and having a weapon that each one that might have a different way the weapon works and which of my feats might work with it and how.
The Scorpion Whip should be Finesseable regardless of anything else. Whips are finessable. If wielded as a Whip, it is finessable. Light Weapons are Finessaable. If not wielded as a whip, it is still finessable.
Let's just the pick us this Friday and then joy and happiness as we will have answers.
Well lets cross our fingers and hope that no one beats us out next week fellas.
well it's also how hard to get an answer, this scorpion whip FAQ could take a lot of work to sort out all the answers to this.
Agreed. Simple questions/answers are likely the best bets. It's just unfortunate that the Scorpion Whip is so ambiguous.
There is a flip side to this. They may be LESS inclined to be in a hurry to fix a simple one. You can play a character with knowledge skills without take ten but wielding a scorpion whip you may not.
Official Rules Response
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Scorpion Whips: How do scorpion whips work? There are several published sources of scorpion whips, and they seem inconsistent.
Change the last sentence in the Ultimate Combat scorpion whip's description to say "If you are proficient with both scorpion whips and whips, you can use a scorpion whip in either the normal way, as a typical light performance weapon, or as a whip. When you use a scorpion whip as a whip, it is otherwise equivalent to a whip, but it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus." This change will be reflected in future errata.What this means is that the scorpion whip is normally a light performance weapon with no other special weapon features, but that someone with both proficiencies can also use it as a whip, in which case it acts precisely like a whip in all ways (one-handed weapon, attack out to 15 feet, provoke an attack of opportunity, can use the Whip Mastery feats, etc) except that it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus.
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WHOOO HOOO!!!!!! Thanks dev team.
Forgive me if I seem a little dense, but didn't they just add a "feat tax" (EWP: Whip + EWP: Scorpion whip) to use it as it was originally intended?
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Forgive me if I seem a little dense, but didn't they just add a "feat tax" (EWP: Whip + EWP: Scorpion whip) to use it as it was originally intended?
Nope...based on the FAQ, it was originally intended to require Whip proficiency AND Exotic Scorpion Whip Proficiency.
I am not a whip fan, but I think they still need to do some work on it. At least they answered the core question on whether the Whip is the same length as the Scorpion Whip. I think the better way to go now is to say that a person who is proficient with a Whip is proficient with a Scorpion Whip and vice versa...essentially make the Scorpion Whip some sort of sub-weapon of the whip.
I kind of had a feeling that the answer given in the FAQ is how it worked (that's what an exact reading of the existing tables and entries says, basically), but I was kind of hoping it was different because that's very nearly the worst combination.
This is fantastic news for whip builds! Not being able deal lethal damage or get through armor makes a whip pretty useless, and most classes have to wait until 3rd level to get Whip Mastery. But now it is possible to make a functional whip build from level 1.
Scorpion Whips: How do scorpion whips work? There are several published sources of scorpion whips, and they seem inconsistent.
Change the last sentence in the Ultimate Combat scorpion whip's description to say "If you are proficient with both scorpion whips and whips, you can use a scorpion whip in either the normal way, as a typical light performance weapon, or as a whip. When you use a scorpion whip as a whip, it is otherwise equivalent to a whip, but it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus." This change will be reflected in future errata.What this means is that the scorpion whip is normally a light performance weapon with no other special weapon features, but that someone with both proficiencies can also use it as a whip, in which case it acts precisely like a whip in all ways (one-handed weapon, attack out to 15 feet, provoke an attack of opportunity, can use the Whip Mastery feats, etc) except that it deals lethal damage and can harm creatures regardless of their armor bonus.
Would Weapon Focus (Scorpion Whip) grant the +1 bonus to hit only when using it as a light weapon or would it also work when using it as a standard whip?
Would Weapon Focus (Scorpion Whip) grant the +1 bonus to hit only when using it as a light weapon or would it also work when using it as a standard whip?
It should get the +1, because otherwise Weapon Focus (Whip) would have to give the +1 in that situation. And that would be silly.
Would Weapon Focus (Scorpion Whip) grant the +1 bonus to hit only when using it as a light weapon or would it also work when using it as a standard whip?It should get the +1, because otherwise Weapon Focus (Whip) would have to give the +1 in that situation. And that would be silly.
I ask because feats like Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are specifically tied to a weapon proficiency. For example, Weapon Focus (longbow) works with both longbows and composite longbows because both require the same weapon proficiency.
Using a scorpion whip as a light weapon requires Exotic Weapon Proficiency (scorpion whip) but not Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip). So clearly Weapon Focus (scorpion whip) would grant you +1 to hit, but Weapon Focus (whip) would not.
But using the scorpion whip as a whip requires both Exotic Weapon Proficiency (scorpion whip) and Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whip). The FAQ makes it clear that whip-applicable feats work when using a scorpion whip in one-handed mode. So Weapon Focus (whip) would certainly work when it used as a whip. But is it still eligible for Weapon Focus (scorpion whip) even when it is in whip-mode? My guess is that it would be, since you still need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (scorpion whip) to use it as a whip.
My thought is that this would work like the Sun Blade, to which you can apply Weapon Focus (short sword) or Weapon Focus (bastard sword) but not both. But maybe not. Maybe they would stack.
OK, that doesn't seem to match with the PFS ruling
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oi02&page=22?Additional-Resources-Updates# 1051PFS ruling basically says scorpion whip can be used with whip proficiency, FAQ says you need EWP for both whip & scorpion whip
And the PFS ruling is about 6 months old. They may well update it now that this FAQ is out.
Wait...they answer this but not the Double-Chained Kama? Did this really have more FAQ requests than the Double-Chained Kama?
Yes. By an enormous amount. In fact scorpion whip had the most period, of any FAQ (even more than light and darkness after scorpion got a recent surge).
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So can I ask two follow-up questions?
- "This whip has a series of razor-sharp blades and fangs inset along its tip. (...)" Does that mean that you can have a cold iron or adamantine-razored scorpion whip, and use it with whip feats?
- Can you switch whether you're in "scorpion mode" on and off? Can I make attacks "as a whip" on my turn, and take AoOs "as a scorpion whip" outside my turn?
So, does a Scorpion Whip threaten?That's what I want to know. The UE description doesn't have the reach trait and doesn't specify it fails to threaten. So when not in "Whip mode" it clearly does, but only to 5 feet.
I think we need a faq to the faq.
"What this means is that the scorpion whip is normally a light performance weapon with no other special weapon features" means that, like any other light performance weapon with no other special features, the scorpion whip threatens at five feet. I'm not sure how switching between using it as a scorpion whip and using it as a whip works I guess... I would hope, but not assume, that you can choose to use it as a whip whenever you attack, but otherwise it works as itself.
Okay, so I am proficient with both the Whip, and Scorpion Whip.
I wield, and attack with the Scorpion Whip, as a Whip. Then, after my full-attack, I wield the Scorpion Whip, as a Scorpion Whip, and threaten, allowing me to make AoOs, during the time after the end my turn.
This is how it works?
Yep, sounds like it. They've said that 'changing grips' takes a free action, so free action at start to wield it as a whip and at the end of the round a free action to wield it as a Scorpion Whip.
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Yeah, I'm with graystone. It should work just as you've described as far as I can see.
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A few other questions:
1) If I have Slashing Grace, for a Whip, can I use that with a Scorpion Whip, if I am proficient with both the Whip, and Scorpion Whip?
2) If I am a Warpriest, and my god's favored weapon is the Whip, or Scorpion Whip, can I use the Sacred Weapon ability with a Scorpion Whip, when using it either as a Whip, or a Scorpion Whip, provided I am proficient with both?
3) If I am proficient with both a Whip, and Scorpion Whip, can I use a Scorpion Whip to deal nonlethal damage, without penalty, if using it as a Whip?
4) Does Crusader's Flurry allow me to Flurry with a Scorpion Whip, no matter how I use it?
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With that dual proficiency requirement, it has become rather hard to actually achieve a whip build. I suppose it can be done as a half-elf warpriest of Calistria. Your bonus feats could be used to traverse the feat tree.
Sadly, I think the whip is just about outmoded by now. Compared to things like Blade Lash, the Whip Mastery feat tree combined with two exotic weapon proficiencies, is just way overpriced.
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Well, Selket has the Scorpion Whip as her favored Weapon.
So, you could be a Half-Elf or Half-Orc Warpriest of Selket, or nab the Caravan Drover trait(with Adopted).
All those are PFS legal options.
Yep, it's pretty easy to snag both proficiencies for free at 1st. A human Warpriest of Selket, taking the Caravan Drover trait, can start with weapon finesse and slashing grace all at first!
A few other questions:
1) If I have Slashing Grace, for a Whip, can I use that with a Scorpion Whip, if I am proficient with both the Whip, and Scorpion Whip?
2) If I am a Warpriest, and my god's favored weapon is the Whip, or Scorpion Whip, can I use the Sacred Weapon ability with a Scorpion Whip, when using it either as a Whip, or a Scorpion Whip, provided I am proficient with both?
3) If I am proficient with both a Whip, and Scorpion Whip, can I use a Scorpion Whip to deal nonlethal damage, without penalty, if using it as a Whip?
4) Does Crusader's Flurry allow me to Flurry with a Scorpion Whip, no matter how I use it?
#1 I'd say you want to take it with the Scorpion Whip since you are still using your proficiency in it even as a whip (you need both to use it as such).
#2 I'd say the same as #1, Scorpion Whip is the way to go.
#3 I'd say no. You can't use it as a 'normal' whip because you're using the dual proficiencies to use it as a lethal damaging whip.
#4 As with #1 and #2, I'd say yes. You HAVE to use your Scorpion Whip proficiency even when using it as a whip.
I think the biggest issue is that with whip mastery and improved whip mastery, there's really no need for a scorpion whip. The only issue is you can't have those until BAB+3 and BAB+5.
I think the biggest issue is that with whip mastery and improved whip mastery, there's really no need for a scorpion whip. The only issue is you can't have those until BAB+3 and BAB+5.
The big bonus is that you deal lethal damage no matter the armor of your foes until you get a +2 BAB and can buy the whip mastery feat. So if you make a higher level character, you may not need it but starting at first, it's sucks pretty bad to have your specialty weapon deal 0 damage.