Deadly Aim would probably be a good feat to take too. And yeah, it was weird that Gunsmithing was not replaced for the Bolt Ace. Signature Deed for the Sharp Shoot deed would probably be the best use of your level 11 feet as well.
What they could have done was replace Gunsmithing with Precise Shot (or another feat) and Medium and Heavy armor Proficiencies would replace the firearm proficiency and any firearms gained (however that is worded).
But I also like how the Bolt Ace seems to fix the problem where people are scared of guns in a fantasy setting.
Its the only "Archer" type with Dex to damage... well other than an actual Gunslinger of course. I think it makes it super competitive with the other big ranged classes (Zen Monk, Fighter Archer, Ranger, ect).
The Hooded Champion Archetype is also very interesting... I am knocking around a few ideas on ways to tweak it.
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So I tried to place all the feats as I would probably take them. Here are a few things I noticed...
1. You really dont start rolling until Level 5 when you get Dex to Damage and Crossbow Mastery. I went Light Crossbow with Two weapon Fighting.
2. You dont need Improved Precise shot with Signature Deed (Shooter's Resolve) doing the same thing.
3. Shooting two Light Crossbows is a Free Action at 5th level, and with a Glove of storing by 7th level your set for Two weapon Fighting. At 11th level it becomes "no action".... whatever that means. Not sure if you even need the glove at that point if its not an action to reload.
4. You can take Improved Crit with one of your free feats but honestly I would just get the Keen enchant at a much earlier level. Sig Deed (Vigilant Loading) is an option, but you can always just step back 5 feet or wait for the "No action required" at 11th level.
H: Rapid Reload (Light Crossbow)
1: Point-blank Shot
3: Precise Shot
4: Rapid Shot
5: Crossbow Mastery
7: Two Weapon Fighting
8: Cluster Shots
9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
11: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
12: Signature Deed (Sharp Shoot or Shooter's Resolve)
13: Deadly Aim
15: Signature Deed (Sharp Shoot or Shooter's Resolve)
16: Free Feat
17: Free Feat
19: Free Feat
20: Free Feat
1d8 + Dex on a 19-20/X3 is pretty sick. At 20th with a 20 Starting Dex, you could potentially max it out at a 36 dex or so. With +5 Keen Crossbows thats...
+38 to hit
-2 Rapid Shot
-4 from Two weapon Fighting
-6 from Deadly Aim
26/26/26/21/21/16/16/11 (Touch AC within 80ft )
1d8 + 30 (13 Dex + 12 Deadly Aim + +5 Weapon) + weapon enchants.
I'd house rule that you start with repeating crossbow proficiency (edit: possibly even hand crossbow proficiency, so they can use one something one handed) instead of firearms, and rapid reload instead of gunsmith,
That's what I was going to do, basically. I might just make it "all crossbows".
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Any glaring errors in the plan?
Just what you've already noted, that you have to stop firing every two or three rounds to full round reload. Ranged shots tend to be all about the "volley fire" approach with feats like Clustered Shot and Rapid Shot making sure you want as many bolts in the air as possible. Assuming Haste and rapid shot, you'll want to be firing 4 shots a round at level 6.
You could circumvent that by using two crossbows, but keeping two weapons enchanted gets really expensive in the low levels.
Personally I'm inclined to give the bolt ace Rapid Reload with a crossbow of his choice at level 1 in place of of Gunsmith. That feat really doesn't make any sense for an archetype that focuses on crossbows.
Its the only "Archer" type with Dex to damage... well other than an actual Gunslinger of course. I think it makes it super competitive with the other big ranged classes (Zen Monk, Fighter Archer, Ranger, ect).
The Hooded Champion Archetype is also very interesting... I am knocking around a few ideas on ways to tweak it.
There is the Crossbowman Archetype that gets Dex to damage. Though it isn't as good as Gunslinger or Bolt Ace.
There is the Crossbowman Archetype that gets Dex to damage. Though it isn't as good as Gunslinger or Bolt Ace.Its the only "Archer" type with Dex to damage... well other than an actual Gunslinger of course. I think it makes it super competitive with the other big ranged classes (Zen Monk, Fighter Archer, Ranger, ect).
The Hooded Champion Archetype is also very interesting... I am knocking around a few ideas on ways to tweak it.
Only with prepared actions... Which means it can't even full attack. It shouldn't even be mentioned... If it can't full attack it doesn't have the main strength of Archers.
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I just noticed the bolt ace doesn't change the gunslinger weapon proficiency options. So you can still use firearms (and start with one, courtesy of Gunsmith), but you're not proficient with hand, double, or repeating crossbows.
I wonder if that's intentional, an oversight, or if they simply ran out of space and couldn't fit the extra text.
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A great idea, but half baked execution. They need to trade out gunsmithing and firearm proficiencies for full crossbow access and, as someonesaid earlier a free rideeload on crossbow of choice and it'll work out well enough.
Also, grit for touch AC on a single attack is very underwhelming. Still, it's more options for crossbows at least.
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Keeping Gunsmithing/Gunslinger/Firearm proficiency, as said, feels like the archetype is in complete.
Also not a fan of how picking up Crossbow Mastery makes two of your deeds worthless, but Crossbow Mastery is mandatory for anything other than a light crossbow.
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Deeds: A bolt ace can perform the following deeds with a crossbow instead of a firearm: gunslinger initiative, pistolwhip, dead shot, targeting, bleeding wound, death’s shot, and stunning shot. The bolt thrower swaps the following deeds.
Sharp Shoot (Ex): At 1st level, a bolt ace can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when firing a crossbow at a target within its first range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This deed replaces deadeye.
Vigilant Loading (Ex): At 1st level, as long as a bolt ace has at least 1 grit point, she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when loading a crossbow. This deed replaces quick clear.
Shooter’s Resolve (Ex): At 3rd level, a bolt ace can spend 1 grit point when making a crossbow attack as a standard action and ignore the effects of concealment (though not total concealment) and cover (other than total cover) against that shot. This deed replaces utility shot.
Distracting Shot (Ex): At 7th level, a bolt ace can spend 1 grit point and choose to miss a target that she could normally attack within her range with a crossbow attack. When she does, the target loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for 1 round. This deed replaces startling shot.
Vigilant Shooter (Ex): At 11th level, as long as a bolt ace spends 1 grit point when she does so, she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when firing a crossbow. This deed replaces expert loading.
Inexplicable Reload (Ex): At 11th level, loading a crossbow becomes unthinking and automatic for a bolt ace. As long as she has at least 1 grit point, she always starts each round of combat (even a surprise round) with her crossbow loaded. Also the amount of time needed to reload a crossbow decreases by one step: a standard action becomes a move action, a move action becomes a swift action, a swift action becomes a free action, and a free action becomes not an action. This deed replaces lightning reload.
Pinning Shot (Ex): At 15th level, the bolt ace can spend 1 grit point while shooting a crossbow and attempt to pin down its target with the bolt. If the crossbow attack hits, it pins the target to a nearby object, to a wall, or to the ground, entangling and staggering the target. While pinned by the bolt, the target cannot move out of its space until it takes a standard action to free itself from the pinning bolt, except by means of teleportation. This deed replaces menacing shot.
Which Deeds are you talking about that specifically call out requiring a firearm? Because if they're not these, then it's probably the intention.
edit for inclusiveness.
I looked over the base gunslinger and I couldn't find any deeds that weren't either covered by the note Seranov quoted, were replaced with bolt ace deeds or work without firearms.
While I still wish they'd have tweaked the proficiency and replaced the gunsmith feat, near as I can tell the deeds seem to work well.
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...Deeds: A bolt ace can perform the following deeds with a crossbow instead of a firearm: gunslinger initiative, pistolwhip, dead shot, targeting, bleeding wound, death’s shot, and stunning shot. The bolt thrower swaps the following deeds.
Sharp Shoot (Ex): At 1st level, a bolt ace can resolve an attack against touch AC instead of normal AC when firing a crossbow at a target within its first range increment. Performing this deed costs 1 grit point. This deed replaces deadeye.
Vigilant Loading (Ex): At 1st level, as long as a bolt ace has at least 1 grit point, she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when loading a crossbow. This deed replaces quick clear.
Shooter’s Resolve (Ex): At 3rd level, a bolt ace can spend 1 grit point when making a crossbow attack as a standard action and ignore the effects of concealment (though not total concealment) and cover (other than total cover) against that shot. This deed replaces utility shot.
Distracting Shot (Ex): At 7th level, a bolt ace can spend 1 grit point and choose to miss a target that she could normally attack within her range with a crossbow attack. When she does, the target loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) for 1 round. This deed replaces startling shot.
Vigilant Shooter (Ex): At 11th level, as long as a bolt ace spends 1 grit point when she does so, she does not provoke attacks of opportunity when firing a crossbow. This deed replaces expert loading.
Inexplicable Reload (Ex): At 11th level, loading a crossbow becomes unthinking and automatic for a bolt ace. As long as she has at least 1 grit point, she always starts each round of combat (even a surprise round) with her crossbow loaded. Also the amount of time needed to reload a crossbow decreases by one step: a standard action becomes a move action, a move action becomes a swift action, a swift action becomes a free action, and a free action becomes not an action. This deed replaces lightning reload.
Pinning Shot (Ex): At 15th level, the bolt ace can spend 1 grit point while
Woops my bad i guess i didnt read the " A bolt ace can perform the following deeds with a crossbow instead of a firearm.." part
Regarding the remaining firearm proficiency and gunsmithing feat, what seems the best or most likely swap outs? All crossbows seems the best fit for proficiencies and maybe rapid reload for gunsmith? A crossbow of choice or even master work crossbow would be awesome instead of a battered firearm but seems very unlikely.
The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.On the other hand the Gunsmithing bonus feat to ease the production of ammo can be converted in a bonus Skill Focus[Craft(Crossbows)] or a bonus to the skill equal to the class level (or half)
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Yeah, I am going to go with proficiency with all crossbows (or at least hand & repeating) instead of firearms, and Rapid Reload instead of Gunsmith. That should make a 1st level bolt ace about as capable with a light crossbow as a first level archer with a longbow.
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The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.
Check out the repeating crossbows. No way to get those at 1st unless you take a wealth giving trait. I'd be happy with a battered repeating crossbow to start. ;)
Check out the repeating crossbows. No way to get those at 1st unless you take a wealth giving trait. I'd be happy with a battered repeating crossbow to start. ;)
The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.
With "mandatory" feats like Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery you don't even need a repeating crossbow for the time you get to iterative attacks
While Crossbow Mastery is absolutely necessary for anything other than light- and hand crossbows, I'd think that the Snap Shot chain from ultimate combat would be an interesting option if you can spare the room for weapon focus (not that likely, but still). Attacks of Opportunities with your crossbow AND the same "don't provoke" clause gained through Crossbow Mastery seems like a pretty good deal, though it sadly comes at a slightly later level.
Yes, it kind of adds COmbat Reflexes to your "get as soon as possible" list, but it still seems like a decent idea for anyone who wants to use light or hand crossbows.
With "mandatory" feats like Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery you don't even need a repeating crossbow for the time you get to iterative attacksCheck out the repeating crossbows. No way to get those at 1st unless you take a wealth giving trait. I'd be happy with a battered repeating crossbow to start. ;)
The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.
Iterative maybe, but how soon can you use rapid shot? 1st as a human. I'd be more than happy to get 2 shots from 1st-5th.
...AND the same "don't provoke" clause gained through Crossbow Mastery...
Turns out that I'm misremembering and Snap Shot only negates Attacks of Opportunities for FIRING at melee range, not reloading. Still a decent pick for higher levels I'd imagine.
Iterative maybe, but how soon can you use rapid shot? 1st as a human. I'd be more than happy to get 2 shots from 1st-5th.With "mandatory" feats like Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery you don't even need a repeating crossbow for the time you get to iterative attacksCheck out the repeating crossbows. No way to get those at 1st unless you take a wealth giving trait. I'd be happy with a battered repeating crossbow to start. ;)
The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.
Vanilla Gunslinger doesn't do it better with a firearm
Vanilla Gunslinger doesn't do it better with a firearmIterative maybe, but how soon can you use rapid shot? 1st as a human. I'd be more than happy to get 2 shots from 1st-5th.With "mandatory" feats like Rapid Reload and Crossbow Mastery you don't even need a repeating crossbow for the time you get to iterative attacksCheck out the repeating crossbows. No way to get those at 1st unless you take a wealth giving trait. I'd be happy with a battered repeating crossbow to start. ;)
The battered firearm as a class feature is there because the really high cost of a firearm make it impossible for a character at level 1 to afford a firearm with his starting wealth, and the classes designed to use firearms have to compensate for it providing a weapon from the get-go.
In the case of other weapons, their cost is low enough to buy them with starting wealth without difficulty.
Don't understand what you're saying. I thought we where talking about high price weapons.
In Council of Thieves, there's an oversized crossbow in book one, so there's a precedent.
Functionally, it's a good idea, the penalties to hit are offset by more damage.