I can't emphasize enough how amazing the beast totem powers are for a build that goes to 10th and beyond. I'd highly recommend dropping a few rage powers for those. Early on you've sunk two powers into an AC boost (which is bad) and some natural weapons (situationally good early on), but being able to full attack on a charge that opens with a trip? That's gold right there.An example Human Barbarian build:
Phneri, I am happy to post 2 barbarian builds in the guide if they operate differently. Please feel free to post your beast totem build with an explanation of its mechanics and I will add it in with acknowledgement.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Pheneri's and Caneach's Barbarian trip builds have now been added to the guide. The Classes section has been updated as well. The guide is now complete unless anyone can think of anything else that should go in there.
Go to A Guide for Trip Builds in Pathfinder
I would like to thank everyone in this thread for their helpful feedback which helped me tremendously in getting the guide into a completed state.
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Typos:
Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Combat Reflexes.
Greater Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Combat Reflexes
Suggestion:
You might want to include Improved Disarm, as it synergizes well with Improved Trip.
Trip opponent, then, when they provoke from standing, disarm them, so they wind up standing with empty hands, and have to burn their standard action getting a weapon out or picked up. Or provoking from their target by attacking unarmed...
Which also opens up Greater Trip, which allows you to relocate the disarmed weapon (and possibly shield) into a random square 15' from the person disarmed.
Typos:
Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Combat Reflexes.
Greater Trip requires Combat Expertise, not Combat ReflexesSuggestion:
You might want to include Improved Disarm, as it synergizes well with Improved Trip.Trip opponent, then, when they provoke from standing, disarm them, so they wind up standing with empty hands, and have to burn their standard action getting a weapon out or picked up. Or provoking from their target by attacking unarmed...
Which also opens up Greater Trip, which allows you to relocate the disarmed weapon (and possibly shield) into a random square 15' from the person disarmed.
Good pickup on Combat Reflexes. I've added your comments verbatim for Improved Disarm which now appears in the Feats section. Thanks for your feedback.
Note you have the stat block very wrong on my tripper, and have listed the same feat twice, in addition to missing all of the even level rage powers on both builds.
The Stat block is actually correct but I understand why you thought it was wrong. I've explained things better now in the introduction to the Builds section as shown below:
I will show in brackets the 20 point spend breakdown at first level. The actual attribute values will be representative of what you can expect to have given comparable magic items and ability bonuses every 4th level by 12th level.
I've now added the rage powers to both builds. Thanks for the feedback.
The Stat block is actually correct but I understand why you thought it was wrong. I've explained things better now in the introduction to the Builds section as shown below:
No. It's wrong. As in you did the charisma wrong flat out, then put the con down wrong and did the strength wrong, or did not list the appropriate items/level.
Strength started at 18. At 12 with 2 points added that should likely be 24, with a +4 strength item (not unreasonable for 12th level WBL).
Con started at 14. Again, with appropriate WBL 18 with an item isn't unreasonable.
Wisdom should be 13 going for scent, or a primary stat should be at an odd number.
If you're reflecting raged stats that should be 28 str and 22 con.
I'm also not sure why you would do any of that, seeing as I constructed the stat block and notes based on the character before items, and it's relatively easy for a reader to add what they want/have to it rather than using assumed items.
The whole point is to show what the build looks like at 12th level while still being able to see the ability point spend at 1st level.
Anyway apologies for getting the scores wrong. Before I change them, please look this over. BTW, wouldn't the barbarian get greater rage at 11th level, thereby giving a +6 bonus rather than +4 to con and str? So for your build, we are assuming 2 points go into str and 1 point into wisdom from ability gains every 4th level. And we are also assuming +4 items for con and str.
Ability Scores at lvl 12:
(Assume 20 pt. build)
Str: 24 (10) (30 with Rage)
Dex: 12 (2)
Con: 18 (5) (24 with Rage)
Int: 13 (3)
Wis: 13 (2)
Cha: 8 (-2)
I think Shield of Swings could be a decent choice for a Trip build.
Shield of Swings
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you take a full-attack action while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can choose to reduce the damage by 1/2 to gain a +4 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the beginning of your next turn. The reduction in damage applies until the beginning of your next turn.
Since you often replace attacks with Trips, (or Disarms) you might not care as much that your damage is halved. ...but do trip builds need the extra AC? Meh.
I think Shield of Swings could be a decent choice for a Trip build.
Shield of Swings
Prerequisites: Str 13, Power Attack, base attack bonus +1.Benefit: When you take a full-attack action while wielding a two-handed weapon, you can choose to reduce the damage by 1/2 to gain a +4 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the beginning of your next turn. The reduction in damage applies until the beginning of your next turn.
Since you often replace attacks with Trips, (or Disarms) you might not care as much that your damage is halved. ...but do trip builds need the extra AC? Meh.
The Shield of Swings feat sounds like a useful feat to buff your AC if it works with trip. You're not doing any damage to your opponent when you substitute a CMB trip action for an attack. Does this exclude you from using this feat while tripping since you're not halving any damage? Clarification on this point would be nice.
If it's legal I'll certainly add this feat to the Feats section in my guide.
Is Combat Patrol effective for a trip build? ...or is giving up your turn just not worth it? It's also a hefty feat investment for an already strained build; Mobility (and Dodge) and Combat Reflexes. Although Mobility is the prerequisite for some other nice feats. (Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack... Sidestep?)
Would you reconsider depending upon:
1. If you're reliably enlarged
2. Which class you're using (Obviously full BAB is ideal)
3. Is it a reach weapon or not?
4. By extension, Fauchard or not?
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I know this is thread necromancy of the highest order but I found your guide yesterday and it was useful for something I'm working on.
Your Oracle build isn't legit though. Fury's Fall can't be taken at 5th level as you don't get access to Improved Trip until 7th level (from Manoeuvre Mastery) . Also missing a feat at 1st level as I assume the build is human?
1: EWP: Fauchard, Combat Reflexes
3: Power Attack
5: Extra Revelation or anything else
7: Improved Trip, Fury's Fall
...
works though.
I actually came across an interesting combination while working on my monk/druid builds.
1.) Halflings are pretty bad as a baseline for tripping, but the underfoot adept racial archetype allows them to be treated as one size larger for CMB/CMD purposes every 4 levels.
2.) Druids can become huge creatures for 4 levels of druid + 4 levels of X (by taking the Shaping focus feat)
3.) The maneuver master archetype stacks with the underfoot adept racial archetype.
So...
Halfling Monk 6 / Druid 4
Can become a huge creature (wildshape) that counts as a gargantuan creature (underfoot adept) while tripping. So that is a +4 bonus to CMB with a -2 to to hit, not bad, free +2 bonus. Eventually, you count as a colossal creature while tripping, which means you can basically trip everything in the game.
The class can go either of two routes, the dex route or the strength route, the str route is straightforward, but you don't get a racial bonus to it.
The dex route is a bit schizophrenic until you can get elemental shape at which point huge air elementals get a +8 size bonus to Dex.
The maneuver master is there to provide free tripping attempts (since I am taking the monk class after all) and to get greater trip without having to take combat reflexes.
I'll post a better thought out build when I have a moment.
prototype00
Edit: Ah, thread necromancy, I hadn't noticed the dates.
3.) The maneuver master archetype stacks with the underfoot adept racial archetype.
The maneuver master archetype is amazing for trip builds and it can be taken with the monk weapon adept archetype as well for extra weapon bonuses.
If you go down the monk path, I now think the best weapon available for tripping is the Kama, Double Chained which allows reach attacks/trip attempts at 10 feet as well as when the opponent is next to you. The weapon also helps you from being disarmed with its special abilities.
You might find this of use. I downloaded the monster db a few weeks back to analyze it for my trip build. Using all the monsters currently in the PFSRD, 17% of all creatures listed cannot be tripped.
Next up is the Trip CMD of the monsters (Note: I'm repeating myself to be clear, this is the CMD for Trip only). This does NOT include size modifiers or limitations on tripping creatures more than one size larger than yourself. So some of these numbers would scale based on the attacker size.
CMD by CR
CR Avg CMD
1 13
2 16
3 19
4 24
5 30
6 31
7 32
8 33
9 32
10 32
11 37
12 35
13 42
14 38
15 45
16 49
17 46
18 51
19 54
20 55
21 61
22 64
23 61
24+ 81
-AK
Great guide, I've made myself a nice Magus trip build and I just found this guide so I thought I would share a few things I found for my build.
Most of these are for the Magus only (although a few apply to others):
Monstrous Physique 3 and 4 allow for Huge size, that is tremendous reach and allows for tripping almost any size foe.
Staffmaster Magus archetype and Tripping Staff: this allows a magus to spellstrike while tripping, which means you could do 15d6 empowered intensified shocking grasp damage on a trip. I think it is one of if not the only way to do damage while performing a trip.
Spell Combat: True Strike / Trip. The magus can use spell combat to cast True Strike in the same round as a trip. Not exactly efficient damage-wise but if you NEED to knock someone over, getting a +20 to the roll is huge.
Toppling Spell/Magic Missle: This combo has been discussed online before, as far as I know everything that applies to your trip (Improved Trip, Greater Trip, etc) would apply here as you are making a trip attack. This allows you to fire off multiple magic missles at different targets and attempt a trip on each of them. Furthermore the magus can do it as part of a full attack action.
You advice Battle Oracles to get EWP at 1st level, but I think that feat requires BAB +1, so they can't take it before 3rd level.
You advice Battle Oracles to get EWP at 1st level, but I think that feat requires BAB +1, so they can't take it before 3rd level.
It does.
Druids with the Wolf domain can be very effective trippers. Get Improved Trip as a bonus feat at first level, and at level 8, you can add your Wisdom modifier to attacks (and therefore CMB checks). Still need to get Combat Expertise to pick up other trip feats, but it no longer has to be your first-level feat. Fury's Fall doesn't require Combat Expertise, so you could be an effective tripping machine right out of the gate, no feat tax required. Later you can pull all the usual Druid tricks to be a better tripper (wild shape into the largest form available to you, then use Powerful Shape to count as 1 size category larger for the purposes CMB and CMD).
Also, Felling Smash looks like a real must-have for tripping builds.
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I can't believe halflings are red now that ARG is out. A halfling underfoot combatant/maneuver master monk (yes they stack) with agile maneuvers and fury's fall can get some insane trip bonuses. Those two feats let you go 2x dexmod and you count as eventually colossal. Greater trip by sixth level, ki tossing ...so many possibilities. Red for halflings is just inexcusable!
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Your guide has some outdated language, unfortunately. You say that the only way to apply Weapon Focus/enhancement bonuses is through a weapon with the Trip special quality, and cite an FAQ from March 15th, 2011. However, that FAQ was updated. Here is the current ruling:
Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.
Here is the actual FAQ quoted, complete with the updated language. The only benefit to using a weapon with the Trip special feature now is that if you fail at the trip by 10 or more, you can drop your weapon to avoid being tripped. Tripping with your +5 longsword still gives you a +5 bonus to Trip checks now.
A trip weapon now also allows you to use the weapon to make drag and reposition attempts even though those are normally not "done with a weapon." See the blog post linked in the FAQ entry.
So that's sort of a benefit. Doesn't help tripping at all, but whatever.
Your guide has some outdated language, unfortunately. You say that the only way to apply Weapon Focus/enhancement bonuses is through a weapon with the Trip special quality, and cite an FAQ from March 15th, 2011. However, that FAQ was updated. Here is the current ruling:
Yes, it is outdated. When I get time, I'll update it with the current rulings. There is some valuable content from Ultimate Combat that should be added as well.
Thanks much for the trip guide! I've crafted up a Gnoll Guisarme fighter to throw at my group this coming weekend.
I would picture these working in pairs or even a trio. We'll see. Comments welcome.
UNNAMED HERO CR 9
Male Gnoll Fighter (Polearm Master) 9
CE Medium Humanoid (Gnoll)
Init +3; Senses Darkvision; Perception +10
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DEFENSE
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AC 23, touch 13, flat-footed 21. . (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 90 (9d10+2d8+22)
Fort +10, Ref +6, Will +2
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Defending Guisarme +18/+13 (2d4+9/20/x3) and
. . Gauntlet (from Armor) +14/+9 (1d3+4/20/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +14/+9 (1d3+4/20/x2)
Special Attacks Pole Fighting -3, Steadfast Pike +2
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STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 8, Cha 6
Base Atk +10; CMB +14 (+18 Tripping); CMD 27 (29 vs. Trip)
Feats Cleave, Combat Expertise +/-3, Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Dodge, Greater Trip, Improved Trip, Lunge, Outflank, Power Attack -3/+6, Toughness +11, Weapon Focus: Guisarme
Skills Acrobatics +10, Climb +0, Escape Artist +2, Fly -1, Intimidate +3, Perception +10, Ride -1, Sense Motive +10, Stealth -1, Swim +0
Languages Common, Gnoll
SQ Flexible Flanker (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Defending Guisarme, +2 Field Plate; Other Gear Ring of Protection, +1
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Cleave If you hit a foe, attack an adjacent target at the same attack bonus but take -2 AC.
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) You may make up to 4 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Flexible Flanker (Ex) Choose an adjacent square for the purpose of determining who you are flanking.
Greater Trip +2 to Trip, target provokes AoO when tripped.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Lunge -2 to AC for +5' reach
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Pole Fighting -3 (Ex) Use a spear or polearm against adjacent targets with a -3 penalty.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Steadfast Pike +2 (Ex) +2 to hit on readied attacks and AoO with polearms & spears.
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Below is my new guide on tripping builds.
Go to A Guide for Trip Builds in Pathfinder
Please feel free to comment and let me know if I've made any errors. Hope you enjoy.
Just a note: You never mention that whips don't threaten squares, so they can not be used as Attack of Opportunity weapon.
That's not strictly true, any whip build really needs Whip Mastery, and Improved Whip Master. The first giving you the ability to damage and not take AOs and the second gives you threatening and some tricks.
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Okay walking away, but not with out this Whip Fighter Thread
Which is actually a thread about whip users in general and not just fighters, and most of the builds are trip centric.
I know the guide isn't being updated currently - so I'll just add it here.
Item: Any wanna be tripper needs a tripping enchancment (dueling-PG) (and a greater magic weapon on the weapon).
There is also.
gauntels of skilled maneuvering (4000) from UQ for a +2 bonus
and since anything that helps with to hit helps:
Pale green prism (4000) +1 competencce on to hit
And a real bargain weapon cord 2 sp - with a tripping weapon you can drop your weapon if the trip fails and get it back as a swift action.
feats: felling smash + greater trip - now every time you can't get a full attack you run up to a guy, hit him - he provokes an AoO (against a single foe you could delay to after your team mates to make sure every one gets a sving at him. Doubling you attacks that round. And if you add combat reflexes (and if your a tripper you want that feat) you get an extra attack when he tries to get up...
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Others have said this, but I'm going to reinforce this. HALFLINGS AREN'T RED! An underfoot adept halfling can dump int and still get Imp/Greater Trip, and if you are a dex build, you can get weapon's finesse+fury's fall for 2xdex when tripping (if you use a kama). And the best part about this is that humans can be halflings with racial heritage. That gives another +1 CMB/D because you start out as medium. If anything, halflings are green-blue rating just for the archetype.
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Disagree with your logic on the Summoner as a bad tripper. Your mistake is to suggest the eidolon should be the tripper. Wrong. The Summmoner themselves rather than the eidolon should be the tripper.
Here is how it works through 12th level.
Race: Half Elf
Race Traits: Ancestoral Arms (Guisarme)
Half elven Summoner Favored Class bonus gives +3 evolution points at level 12.
Stats
Str 18 (14+2 racial+1 each at 8th and 12th)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 13
Wis 9 (level 16 increase to 10)
Cha 14 (13+1 at 4th, with items like headband of Alluring Cha for further spell bonuses/summons per day)
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Fury's fall, Combat Reflexes (eidolon has this earlier), Greater Trip, Weapon Focus.
Spells: Focus on things like Enlarge Person and Haste (at 4th level!) to increase combat effectiveness.
Eidolon: He is your combat monster, he is here to smash your trip victim into tiny pieces. There are lots of ways to do this. He provides cover, and bonuses to AC, and action economy. You keep him up at all costs. You are always directly behind him with your reach weapon. He is there to make your foes kibbles and bits.
Summon Monster: Obviously deempahized in this build, but still useful to deal with unusual foes. Dealing with invisible foes? Summon earth elementals. Need to deal with evil outsiders, summon hound archon. Usually in the background.
Weapon Choice: Keeps you out of the front line, especially with enlarge person.
Hope this provides food for thought.
You should update your guide to include hybrid classes. Most notably brawler and bloodrager. Brawler is full bab with bonus feats, an ability that lets them get combat expertise while dumping intelligence, free (limited) 2wf, unarmed damage (for those vicious stomp builds), and an archetype for sneak attack damage. Bloodrager is full bab with a rage and spells (enlarge person is on their spell list).