So, if he was able to play a dwarf - Stone Lord Paladin is the way to go.
I want to clarify something. Tanking in Pathfinder doesn't really exist. There are a couple (literally like 2) of feats that will do it IIRC, but I think they're Halfling only. The reason I say this is because "tanking" is general seen as being durable and getting the enemy to focus on you.
Pathfinder doesn't have any direct mechanism to make the enemy focus on you, other than being perceived as too big a threat to ignore.
So I think you need to clarify exactly what the player expects their character to do.
Being durable is great, but it is worth noting that if you're too defensive your damage output can be minimal making the character one that will be ignored by intelligent enemies.
Personally, I do think Paladin's make great defensive characters because of their ability to self heal. Smite will let them deal great damage against evil enemies. And they can always wield a two-handed weapon with power attack so that their damage is always relevant with minimal investment.
Agree with Claxon that tanking in PF is difficult. And also with the choice of Paladin: when it comes to durability, they are S-tier.
You might consider nudging your player to an area control defender instead of a pure tank. A reach weapon with trip + the Combat Patrol feat (read the feat carefully and make sure you understand it) is shockingly effective, especially if the party wizard/sorcerer can hit them with Enlarge Person. Even if all you are accomplishing each round is slowing down your opponents' advance, the party is coming out ahead.
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I am playing an incredible tank character in our Tyrant's Grasp campaign.
Spheres, my friend. If you're not familiar, just Google "pathfinder spheres" and there's a wiki full of what you need.
My character is a prodigy (class), and the two key ingredients are the berserker and guardian spheres.
Berserker gives an ability similar to rage, which generates temporary hit points every round. There's your durability.
Guardian gives an ability called "challenge", which incentivizes but does not force enemies to attack her instead of her allies.
Go deeper into those two spheres and the survivability goes up while the incentives to focus on her do also.
If you take a gander and are interested, I'll try and offer some explanations and suggestions.
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Yeah, the best form of tanking is probably to control an incredible amount of space with reach games, and to punish people for going where they aren't welcome.
Like an aberrant bloodrager with a reach weapon who gets enlarged and casts long-arm has about as much reach as you likely will want, and you get combat reflexes from a a bloodline feat, so you just get to invest on making those hits count.
I am playing an incredible tank character in our Tyrant's Grasp campaign.
Spheres, my friend. If you're not familiar, just Google "pathfinder spheres" and there's a wiki full of what you need.
My character is a prodigy (class), and the two key ingredients are the berserker and guardian spheres.
Berserker gives an ability similar to rage, which generates temporary hit points every round. There's your durability.
Guardian gives an ability called "challenge", which incentivizes but does not force enemies to attack her instead of her allies.
Go deeper into those two spheres and the survivability goes up while the incentives to focus on her do also.
If you take a gander and are interested, I'll try and offer some explanations and suggestions.
That's right! Spheres of Might has a class called Sentinel that can give itself temporary hp, as well as a type of aggro. They have mobility being able to patrol an area. One of my favorite classes.
Agree with Claxon that tanking in PF is difficult. And also with the choice of Paladin: when it comes to durability, they are S-tier.
You might consider nudging your player to an area control defender instead of a pure tank. A reach weapon with trip + the Combat Patrol feat (read the feat carefully and make sure you understand it) is shockingly effective, especially if the party wizard/sorcerer can hit them with Enlarge Person. Even if all you are accomplishing each round is slowing down your opponents' advance, the party is coming out ahead.
I am not disagreeing with this as a way to build an effective character at all. I usually play full casters so am the wrong person to do so.
I want to point out some of the pitfalls of helping someone with their character I know all about from experience. First, does the player you have been asked to help know that he has "no idea" how to build and play a "tank"?
First, make sure you know what the player means by "tank". The proper meaning is discussed on the thread, but a lot of less experienced players mean something like someone with a high AC that hits things.
On having "no idea" does the player know he has no idea? If yes, that is better but you may still have trouble with how much they want you to take over creating their character and telling them how to play it.
If the answer is no you are in for trouble. I suggest trying to get out of helping them.
The build suggested by John Mechalas sounds very effective. But is it what the player wants to play? Do they know it will not be able to do what it is intended to do for many levels? Does the player know how to play the character when they finally reach that time?
First, make sure you know what the player means by "tank". The proper meaning is discussed on the thread, but a lot of less experienced players mean something like someone with a high AC that hits things.
Hard agree. We are assuming your player is working from the same definition of "tank" that we are using here. If it's not what they mean, then we need to know what goal they have in mind. If they just want "high AC and hit things", then that's a completely different build (and there are several different ways to do that).
The rest of this assumes a reach build is something they want to play. And for sure make sure they understand that this build sometimes means "standing still, taking up space".
Could I get a sample of a level 3 Bravo paladin who uses bladed brush with comat patrol / Trip emphasis ?
I assume by "Bravo" you mean "Virtuous Bravo", and that wouldn't make sense for a two-handed polearm fighter with reach. All the bonuses there are for light, one-handed weapons, and...
...if using a polearm it depends on bladed brush, which I would skip entirely. It's another feat, costs you a move action to swap between reach and close-in, and is built around the glaive which is a bad weapon choice. If you want to threaten the squares adjacent to you, use armor spikes. They don't require your hands to be free. (While you could do a spiked gauntlet, the damage is lower, and it could be argued that you lose AoO's with your polearm if you use a gauntlet to attack. See this FAQ on releasing and re-grabbing a polearm. Ask your GM how they would interpret this.)
You can't get Combat Patrol until your BAB is +5 so L5 is the min for a melee build with a full BAB progression. It's also rather feat intensive (combat reflexes and mobility are prereqs, and mobility also requires dodge).
With a 15pt buy array of (14,13,10,10,10,14) with +2 to Cha you get your min qualifying Dex of 13 for Dodge, and +3 to saves via Divine Grace. If you want an extra AoO then dump Int with (14,14,10,8,10,14) again with +2 to Cha.
Feats are: (L1) Dodge+Combat Reflexes, (L3) Mobility, (L5) Combat Patrol
For weapons, either a horsechopper (d10 dmg, 20/x3, reach, trip), a hooked lance (not actually a lance, d8 dmg, 20/x4, reach, trip) or a guisarme (2d4 dmg, 20/x3, reach, trip).
Use the hooked lance if you're crit fishing, the horsechopper if you like higher but swingy base damage, and the guisarme if you just want to be consistent. Eventually, you'll want to take it to +1 and add the fortuitous property to get an extra AoO.
You'll want to keep your armor light (suggest a chain shirt or studded leather) so you don't lose movement. At 4th or 5th level, you'll get boots of striding and springing, and graduate to chainmail or a breastplate.
Then add armor spikes to your armor.
This is just a quick-and-dirty basic build with no archetypes. Someone else might be able to do better.
I would go with a standard STR based paladin for this. If this type of character is something the player has never done keep the build simple and functional from the start. Don’t use a complicated build that does not come online until high level. The bladed brush tripping paladin does not really come online until around 9th level.
Also keep in mind that the 15-point buy is going to make a lot of builds out of reach. As a paladin you want to boost your main combat stat as high as you can, you also need a good CHA. All characters need at least some CON. You cannot dump STR, or your damage is garbage and encumbrance becomes an issue. Dumping INT on a low skill character means you have almost no skills. Dumping WIS lowers your will save and perception rolls.
I would recommend a STR based paladin with power attack, shield focus, and shield brace. Use a polearm with reach. Antagonize was recommended and would allow some tanking. Many GM’s hate the feat and may ban it so check with you GM about it.
Many GM’s hate the feat and may ban it so check with you GM about it.
Yeah, I'm not personally a fan of the feat but I don't actually ban it. But I have told players in the past that if they pick up the feat, they can expect to see enemies with it. Players tend to really not like having decisions like who to attack made for them, so they usually opt not to take the feat out of the realization that the thing they're doing to me (as the GM) is a thing they also don't like.
Coming back to this thread, I did have the thought that in a 15pt buy campaign it might be somewhat hard to make a successful Paladin.
The 2 handed weapon using paladin I'm imagining needs Strength, doesn't need dex, but doesn't want to tank it either. Needs con. Doesn't need int, but could feel limiting with basically no skills. I won't say needs wisdom, but doesn't want to tank it either. And needs charisma for abilities.
Conversely, the fighter needs strength and con, has the same issues with dex and int. Arguably needs more wisdom than the paladin, but only for saves, and can relatively safely drop cha.
I feel like the paladin might be harder to feel good with than the fighter due to the point buy.
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So, if he was able to play a dwarf - Stone Lord Paladin is the way to go.
My stonelord paladin was the most defense-oriented PC I ever played in PFS, though I did struggle a bit with keeping up his damage output (mostly because they lose smite).
For a non-dwarf, take a look at the stalwart defender prestige class. However, the earliest you could take start in that class would be 8th level. (In contrast, The stonelord gains the stalwart defender's defensive stance ability at 4th level, but is restricted to dwarves.)
On a 15 point buy you could get a 16 STR (after racial), 13 DEX, 12 CON 10 INT, 10 WIS, 14 CHA. As a human paladin he gets 3 feats. Take Shield Focus, Shield Brace and Power Attack. For equipment he gets full plate, a darkwood heavy shield and a masterwork Guisarme. The 13 DEX allows him to pick up combat reflexes to gain an extra AoO. This also gives him 3 skill points per level and can take his favored class bonus to bump that to 4.
The 12 CON is not as bad as it seems because as a paladin he can heal as a swift action in combat. Divine Grace means his Fort save is still higher than normal.
The 16 STR may seem a little low, but keep in mind the rest of the party is also going to be on the same point buy. It can also be boosted with magic. Bulls Strength is on the Paladin’s spell list.
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Another option is heal tanking. It’s maybe the most effective way to fulfill the tank role in Pathfinder, but it also thematically doesn’t feel like what you imagine a tank to be. Basically, you use something like the life oracle to make attacking anyone else in your party meaningless. Dumb enemies will attack whoever is closest and smart enemies will want to kill the “healer”. Your own survival will be up to your shield, medium armor and own healing.
I'll have to caution you that in PF "tanking" is not really a role as there are no good ways in PF to really force your enemies to attack you.
I'm just going to repeat my mention that the Guardian sphere in Spheres of Might really, really elegantly handles this.
Basically, you challenge your foe(s) and they get bonuses to attack you and penalties attacking your allies. You also get a "delayed damage pool" that helps you survive being the focus of the baddies' ire.
It's much more DM-friendly.