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This is just a list of suggestions for ancestries:
Android:
Add a heritage that gets rid of the Emotionally Unaware downside. Like, an Android constructed to be a tour guide or receptionist. I understand most androids are unaware, but part of the beauty of Starfinder/Pathfinder is anyone can be anything . . . so let us make anything!
Warrior Ancient Android is bad. Everyone is already proficient in simple weapons (Future proofing, I guess), and the martial weapons proficiency doesn't get better over time. Instead grant the Weapon Proficiency General feat. That at least makes it good for spellcasters.
Barathu:
As others have suggested, Barathu land speed likely should be 15ish feet, from Adaptable Limbs
Golarion Survior: I would rework it. It is insanely powerful at early levels (Trained in EVERY archaic weapons, including advanced weapons like the Barricade Buster) but it never gets better. Plus Diehard, a language, and a lore skill. How about instead, you gain familiarity with a single archaic weapon, that is like, a family weapon that is passed down through the generations? Maybe start with one for free, but get rid of the diehard feat?
Kasatha: I could be wrong, but shouldn't Shipborn give you a +1 to saves vs emotion effects? Wouldn't that bring it more in line with other, similar things?
Lashunta: Wait, does Limited Telepathy only let you broadcast? You can't respond (if you don't have telepathy) unless you take a 5th level feat? Why? That really makes it a lot less good than in 1st Ed. And as its the only thing that Lashuntas base get, it kinda sucks. Just make it so you can 'establish a connection' when you use Limited Telepathy, and those you have established a connection with can choose what to send you, you can't read thoughts they don't want you to read.
Also, I see what you did with Lashunta heritages, and it's a creative solution, but it essentially locks you into 3 heritages ever. Why not make the dimorphic (or, I guess, now Trimorphic) part of their base ability, and give them some other heritages instead?
Pahtra: I'd appreciate something that is not an aggressive heritage. I get that Pahtra are predetory cat people, but some cats are nice and like snuggling.
Shirren: No notes, looks good.
Skittermander: Their penalty to will saves seems appropriate, but aren't skittermander supposed to be optimists and fearless? I'd make it so that the penalty doesn't apply to fear affects.
Vesk: No notes, looks good.
Ysoki: Sad that Cheek pouches isn't a base Ysoki ability. It was the most famous thing about them in Starfinder. But I understand.
Borai: Great! No notes! I've been wanting an undead option that still heals with vitality so that it doesn't cause problems in the party.
Prismeni: I love the flavor of them being able to jump into the drift, but I see it causing a LOT of problems VERY fast. First of all . . . do they need to be in control of the ship to jump it? Can that little ratfolk in the artwork jump THE IDARI into the drift? Against the wishes of the captain? Also, several SF1 scenarios were predicated around needing to get a drift drive, or that your drift drive was broken, and one of these guys just breaks that. Oh no, in an escape pod and have to make emergency landing on a planet? Nope, just jump the escape pod into the drift, and you are back at Absolom station in a day. Scenario over because of one character that you don't have to even roll for.
Pretty much total agreement on the Android, Lashunta, and Borai.
But my wife and I were musing about the Vesk (my wife's favorite ancestry from 1e), we can't really figure out a reason to justify their speed penalty, mechanically there's nothing all the unique about the base Vesk that would justify it and lorewise there is no precedent for it either (Vesk had a normal speed in 1e and unlike Dwarves don't have any wider pop culture baggage that would slow them down).
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Vesk: No notes, looks good.
Plated needs some errata, because as it stands there are only a couple assumptions. Are they considered to have environmental protections as is/built in? They are considered to be in medium armor, which isn't either archaic or exposed, and we know this because the scales have traits, and can get more traits with racial feats.
If not, then the only item they can wear to get environmental protections is a flight suit, which is level 0, and therefore actually gives NO protection, since armor is considered to protect 1 day (24 hour cycle) per item level... and level 0 doesn't say "minimum of level 1/24 hours".
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I can't seem to edit my post anyways, but I made a mistake. A flight suit is a level 1 item, not level 0 like other armor/suits in SF2e, so it does proffer at least a 24 hour/1 day level of protection. It is acceptable, but still a little annoying that 100% of Plated Vesk will have to rely on a flight suit, and won't have any cool and/or fancy options for fashion otherwise. :chuckle:
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I can't seem to edit my post anyways, but I made a mistake. A flight suit is a level 1 item, not level 0 like other armor/suits in SF2e, so it does proffer at least a 24 hour/1 day level of protection. It is acceptable, but still a little annoying that 100% of Plated Vesk will have to rely on a flight suit, and won't have any cool and/or fancy options for fashion otherwise. :chuckle:
Just because it's a flight suit doesn't mean it can't look stylish. Almost all the armors say that they come in multiple styles. I'm just wondering how quilted armor, which can be sewn together from old blankets, has environmental protections.
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Popping in to mention a few things I noticed. I already mentioned these in the general playtest discussion but it's better to collect them here in a relevant discussion thread.
Lashuntas interact strangely with the Free Ancestry Boost option, unless that's not gonna be a base rule in SF2 which would suck. Technically they only get one free and one set boost from their ancestry, with their heritage potentially giving them a flaw and second set boost. Free Ancestry Boost should get a clarification to cover instances where a heritage gives boosts and flaws instead of (or additionally to) an ancestry.
Skittermander's Opportunistic Hug doesn't synergize with Hug Master (and Titan Wrestler in general); The reaction specifies that your target has to be no more than one size larger. Grievous oversight. Either clarify the language to "a creature you could grapple" or similar, or put a Special entry on it specifying that the requirement changes if you have Titan Wrestler (or maybe even Hug Master exclusively, it does kind of make sense for ancestry feats to build on each other.)
Also make Golarion Survivor's Golarion lore auto-scale, please, that heritage is the closest we'll ever get to a Human Lore/Weapon Familiarity feat and it doesn't even work like them. Get rid of its Diehard even. It'll be fine.
Also make Golarion Survivor's Golarion lore auto-scale, please, that heritage is the closest we'll ever get to a Human Lore/Weapon Familiarity feat and it doesn't even work like them. Get rid of its Diehard even. It'll be fine.
Yeah, I was crestfallen when I noticed the lore didn't scale like all other remaster ancestry lores do. Such a weird deviation from the new standard.
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Also make Golarion Survivor's Golarion lore auto-scale, please, that heritage is the closest we'll ever get to a Human Lore/Weapon Familiarity feat and it doesn't even work like them. Get rid of its Diehard even. It'll be fine.Yeah, I was crestfallen when I noticed the lore didn't scale like all other remaster ancestry lores do. Such a weird deviation from the new standard.
That's because it isn't a remaster ancestry lore. It's a heritage, not a feat called Human Lore, so it's treated differently. But I'm of the firm opinion that everything that grants you a standard lore skill should auto-advance, including your class, background, heritages, feats, and archetypes, unless some part of that option uses the lore for mechanical benefit above and beyond just "a lore skill." Lores are one of the most flavorful things in Pathfinder (and Starfinder) but rarely do anything... Useful, so I'm really agitated that Paizo still thinks that giving you a random lore and saying "go advance it" is game design.
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Pretty much total agreement on the Android, Lashunta, and Borai.
But my wife and I were musing about the Vesk (my wife's favorite ancestry from 1e), we can't really figure out a reason to justify their speed penalty, mechanically there's nothing all the unique about the base Vesk that would justify it and lorewise there is no precedent for it either (Vesk had a normal speed in 1e and unlike Dwarves don't have any wider pop culture baggage that would slow them down).
I'm okay with Vesk being slow. They have a feat that brings them up to par, and Vesk are often depicted as hulking brutes, so making them a bit slower to move kinda goes with the vibe their going for as this slow but inevitable marching army of doom.
Yep, the Android’s Emotional Unawareness seems like a holdover from a previous…century.
Also don’t understand why Lashunta have 6 HP, less than Shirren. Also weirds me out that in Pathfinder Gnomes have 8 and Elves have…6. I’m all for HP not being “only physical damage” but those seem like weird takes. Just give every ancestry a base of 8, and then bulkier or more….”vigorous” ancestries 10 or 12.
I'm okay with Vesk being slow. They have a feat that brings them up to par, and Vesk are often depicted as hulking brutes, so making them a bit slower to move kinda goes with the vibe their going for as this slow but inevitable marching army of doom.Pretty much total agreement on the Android, Lashunta, and Borai.
But my wife and I were musing about the Vesk (my wife's favorite ancestry from 1e), we can't really figure out a reason to justify their speed penalty, mechanically there's nothing all the unique about the base Vesk that would justify it and lorewise there is no precedent for it either (Vesk had a normal speed in 1e and unlike Dwarves don't have any wider pop culture baggage that would slow them down).
Correction, Vesk have a heritage that brings them up to par. That means you have to make a choice between having a cool natural scale armor, darkvision, psychic powers, or... Not having dwarf speed. Maybe it's a reasonable tradeoff for the most part but it's especially sad if you want to play a Warblood Vesk who rushes in close to get you with all their unarmed attacks. Yes, you can take Brutal Anatomy with Briskwander too, but it's a pretty hefty feat tax to get up to Warblood's level and especially if you want all three natural weapons. And in the game's current state this build wouldn't even be good! Pathfinding Vesks are for sure eating good though.
One more thing I wanna note about Plated Vesk. Currently it specifies that you can only use the Flight Suit with it. This is roughly the equivalent of it saying you'd need to use Explorer's Clothing if this was Pathfinder. The problem is that Explorer's Clothing didn't stay as the only unarmored option in the game, Treasure Vault introduced the Gi (best I can tell a straight up overpriced reskin) and Scroll Robes (actually really cool but does imply you need to get naked to sleep since it doesn't have Comfort) which also used your unarmored proficiency.
We have no guarantee that the Flight Suit will remain the only unarmored option forever in SF2 either. I do recognize that it's even more of a longshot since neither casters nor... What's the equivalent of monks, solarians? Especailly want to use a Flight Suit to begin with, they all have innate light armor proficiency now they'd rather put to use, but still. I think it makes more sense to specify that a Plated Vesk can only wear "unarmored" things. Unless the concern was over PF compatibility all this time and they don't want a Plated doubling up on armor runes from actual Explorer's Clothing and equivalents. But really there should be rules for situations like that anyways.
Wait, extra Vesk note! Assuming no Briskwander, if they wear heavy armor they will always be worse than dwarf speed. Wearing Veskarium Impreial Plate and meeting its strength requirement, I kid you not, makes a Vesk lose 5 feet of its already small movement. Dwarves have an ancestry feat specifically to negate all speed reduction from armor (even if they don't meet its strength requirement) so you can play a fully plated Draven champion without hampering your already puny 20 foot speed further. Change this to a Vesk soldier and suddenly no, it's impossible. Well, not entirely impossible I suppose, but it seems unfair that Vesk needs to spec into the one heritage (not even feat, heritage) themed around being nimble to not move worse than a Dwarf. Maybe make Armor Ace let you ignore armor speed penalties entirely but only if you meet the strength threshold? That way Unburdened Iron still has a niche upside on top of its global speed reduction effect.
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I would make a feat called Baratha Barada Nikto.
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Vesk should be 25ft or get the Dwarf Heavy Armor theme.
Apparently, I need to read the forums before I post.
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I would like a boroi lineage feat that gives them Void Healing by default.
But this is largely a selfish reason because I'm running Kingmaker, and thought Boroi would be an excellent heritage for Jaethal, the undead elf, to take, since I was planning on rebuilding her around the new Champion.
** spoiler omitted **
I mean, you could make her a dhampir. That's an undead versitile heritage with the undead trait and negative healing.
Lashuntas, I think it was? Some ancestry or other has a feat that requires an animal companion. That's great and all but what animal companion? Unless there's equipment I haven't gotten to yet that somehow gives you one, I'm very certain that there is not a single way to get an animal companion in SF2e currently. You could playtest this with a PF2e class that does give you one but that feels expressly against what Paizo would like us to focus on for the playtest.
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Conversely, I think it's actually important to try Pathfinder 2E characters in the Starfinder 2E playtest. If compatibility is the goal, it's important data to say that a Pathfinder class lags behind or runs ahead, or feels just right in the Starfinder setting. It's good to know if a ranger, a wizard, or a cleric, or really any other class can function side by side with the Starfinder classes.But they specifically asked you not to, for Playtest purposes...Wait really? Can you get me a link to that? I only read the FAQ and am currently digesting the Playtest book.
The faq even had this phrase:
Can I play a poppet Solarion with the pirate archetype who keeps a magic sword and a backup rocket launcher in this edition of Starfinder?
100% yes.
Edit: Ah, found it in a seperate blog.
Okay, feels like an odd statement that clashes with the FAQ's statement but I understand now. Then yeah, you're right, I do question if that's the proper way to playtest though. Proof of Pathfinder compatibility is important if compatibility is a major goal.
Players should avoid using Pathfinder Second Edition ancestries, backgrounds, classes, equipment, and feats that aren’t explicitly included in the playtest. Note that most of the skill feats and some class feats from Pathfinder Player Core have been included in the skill feat tables and are part of the playtest. Spells should be selected from the Playtest Rulebook and Pathfinder Player Core. While these options are available, we encourage players to try the new feats and spells from the Starfinder Playtest Core Rulebook to provide us with new data.I think you can understand where someone can read the first one and get the impression that I did.
I do see how that might send conflicting messages but it's important that first and foremost Starfinder 2e gets tested as a standalone system, because it is one. The playtest rulebook only specifies that you need the Pathfinder PC and GMC so they don't have to straight up reprint two rulebooks worth of rules text here, they can simply tell you to refer to those books instead. The full system will have all relevant rules reprinted from them in new Starfinder PC and GMC books. I'm sure you've heard ad nauseum about the Ranged Meta and all that, but it's a real and tangible difference. A Pathfinder ancestry flying at level 1 would be far more powerful than any of their foes [i]or[/o] allies could match up to, but in Starfinder they'll be shot out of the sky in a matter of turns.
The compatibility angle is real but it's a secondary priority. It's fun for a Rogue and an Operative to be having a friendly rivalry, or for a Leshy that photosynthesizes to be able to weild the very power of the sun, or for a Mechanic to take Inventor dedication and be both really good with cutting edge tech while also havign a soft spot for vintage retro clockwork machinations. But, realistically, that Rogue is going to massively underperform against the Operative because Off-Guard is much rarer here, that Leshy will get very bad milage out of any of its ancestry feats that require natural terrain, and that Mechanic will never make a Gadget in their life because the Archaic trait (probably, currently no mechanics on it but the Field Test version was pretty rough) makes them worse than anything else it could throw out.
These aren't glitches in the system, it's fitting circles in square holes. PF2 and SF2 aren't one single gigantic game, they're two games that share core rules and basic math, so you can try to mix and match to come up with something potentially really fun, at your own discretion. And that means that Starfinder needs to primarily be compared against more Starfinder in the playtest to make sure that this system works by itself.
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I'm surprised no one has brought this idea up yet.
Kasatha and Skittermander "All Hands On Deck". For both of them this is a level 9 feat. allowing them to utilize all of their natural arms until the start of their next turn but only once per day.
So I would like a couple of upgrade feats to this. now this would be at levels 13 and 17, respectively, so high level play so a bit of powerspike is to be expected. Basically, A feat that allows you to increase the frequency to once per hour. Maybe a feat that extends the duration of this to a minute with the concentrate trait (Though of course these two should not be usable together)
Or an interesting idea. "Empty the clips: 2 actions once per hour. If you are weilding loaded one handed fire arms in all of your hands you can empty the clip at your target. This has the attack trait, and you esentially make an area cone 15 attack. calculate damage based on the lowest damage die of the weapons you're firing. if you are using multiple damage types, the damage type is which ever is most damaging to the target.
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I'm surprised no one has brought this idea up yet.
Kasatha and Skittermander "All Hands On Deck". For both of them this is a level 9 feat. allowing them to utilize all of their natural arms until the start of their next turn but only once per day.
So I would like a couple of upgrade feats to this. now this would be at levels 13 and 17, respectively, so high level play so a bit of powerspike is to be expected. Basically, A feat that allows you to increase the frequency to once per hour. Maybe a feat that extends the duration of this to a minute with the concentrate trait (Though of course these two should not be usable together)
Or an interesting idea. "Empty the clips: 2 actions once per hour. If you are weilding loaded one handed fire arms in all of your hands you can empty the clip at your target. This has the attack trait, and you esentially make an area cone 15 attack. calculate damage based on the lowest damage die of the weapons you're firing. if you are using multiple damage types, the damage type is which ever is most damaging to the target.
I actually think All Hands On Deck should innately be more than once-per-day. It's powerful but not game-breaking. I think once-per-hour isn't too horrible. Even if multiple arms get buffed like they should.
I actually think All Hands On Deck should innately be more than once-per-day. It's powerful but not game-breaking. I think once-per-hour isn't too horrible. Even if multiple arms get buffed like they should.What if Multi-Arms by default gave full use once per day, but all hands on deck made it once per hour at Level 9. Then a Level 13 or 17 feat was a full unlock as an option for people who thought they needed it.
That's a bit far in my opinion. There's a reason Paizo didn't allow full arm usage, that level of versatility could be very broken, but they definitely overcorrected. I think either multiple arms should let you choose which pair is active on the start of your turn just as a baseline (or at least as a triggered free action), or instead of being a single action it should be a once-per-turn free action. All Hands On Deck specifically should just get a flat cooldown reduction though, and doubly so if Paizo refuses to buff multi-arm directly.
I hope that there is an archetype that focuses on multiple arms, like the winged warrior, or the claw dancer.
I like this. If the crazy four armed swordsman thing costs class feats there's more leeway to give it interesting, powerful stuff. Multiarmed ancestries give small baseline benefits (though I hope the final all hands feat scales to once per 10 min) but an archetype let's you unload with multiple pistols or other multiarm shenanigans.
Yeah I am real tempted on Prismeni for a number of characters, if you can spare the actions in combat it gives you some rounds of free firing, eventually when your spell rank is high enough, or fully charge your batter out of combat. But also on an aesthetic style. The iridescent coloring is one of my favorite color schemes.
This is just a list of suggestions for ancestries:
Android:
Add a heritage that gets rid of the Emotionally Unaware downside. Like, an Android constructed to be a tour guide or receptionist. I understand most androids are unaware, but part of the beauty of Starfinder/Pathfinder is anyone can be anything . . . so let us make anything!
I'm actually (ug) in agreement with Captain Reylak on the reddit forum, and think Emotionally unaware should be taken out entirely. The Charisma flaw is sufficient to handle that aspect. If anything, drop this and give all androids Emotionless (the level 1 feat) instead.
I have two reasons for this. Number 1, Androids in the Ancestry Guide are balanced to be on par with common ancestries instead of uncommon as they properly should. Uncommon ancestries are, across the board, slightly better than the original core common 7, likely because the core 7 are expected to have greater feat support throughout the life of the system*. The SF core ancestries seem to be right in-between the PF original core 7 and PF uncommon**. So taking out that minor flaw and giving another bonus trait instead would bump them up to where they should be.
Number 2, the way stuff is designed has evolved since the ancestry guide. We see few purely negative things nowadays. Some bonuses might have drawbacks, but pure drawbacks aren't their style anymore. So this doesn't really fit and could use another look. This is the perfect time to do so.
Looking at the Prismini . . . I think there are a lot of problems. Living battery is just . . . stupid good. You can change the usage of battery operatied items to 0 for multiple ROUNDS per fight cast?
Technically "usage" only refers to how many hands an item requires to use. You see this repeatedly in the equipment section for all the non-gun objects. It's supposed to be "expend" for weapons. Traditionally "usage" referred to how many battery charges were used for a given unit of time to power tech items in SF1, and that's probably why they used the wrong word here.
There's a couple of class feats that also incorrectly refer to "usage" of a weapon when they mean "expend." Ammunition Conservation (soldier 8) and Deflecting Fire (operative 6).
That said, I think Living Battery is being oversold here for the "[expend] reduced to 0" use. You can use two actions to make two battery weapons have expend zero for a while. At rank 1 that's one free reload action on each, a net savings of zero of actions across the party. At rank 2+ you might get extra actions saved, but how often do you fire ten times in a fight? By what round before it expires, making the character using this what level? What's the opportunity cost of two early actions by someone that level?
And once you've got level 2 tactical weapons and tactical batteries your problems are starting to go away regardless. It's nice to refill batteries after a fight given the current cost issues people are facing for ammo, but that's it and it's not going to be long term important as all the old recharge options return. (Love me some draining unconscious people of their lifeforce to recharge the battery inserted into the obsidian skull attached to their face.)
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Looking at the Prismini . . . I think there are a lot of problems. Living battery is just . . . stupid good. You can change the usage of battery operatied items to 0 for multiple ROUNDS per fight cast?Technically "usage" only refers to how many hands an item requires to use. You see this repeatedly in the equipment section for all the non-gun objects. It's supposed to be "expend" for weapons. Traditionally "usage" referred to how many battery charges were used for a given unit of time to power tech items in SF1, and that's probably why they used the wrong word here.
There's a couple of class feats that also incorrectly refer to "usage" of a weapon when they mean "expend." Ammunition Conservation (soldier 8) and Deflecting Fire (operative 6).
That said, I think Living Battery is being oversold here for the "[expend] reduced to 0" use. You can use two actions to make two battery weapons have expend zero for a while. At rank 1 that's one free reload action on each, a net savings of zero of actions across the party. At rank 2+ you might get extra actions saved, but how often do you fire ten times in a fight? By what round before it expires, making the character using this what level? What's the opportunity cost of two early actions by someone that level?
And once you've got level 2 tactical weapons and tactical batteries your problems are starting to go away regardless. It's nice to refill batteries after a fight given the current cost issues people are facing for ammo, but that's it and it's not going to be long term important as all the old recharge options return. (Love me some draining unconscious people of their lifeforce to recharge the battery inserted into the obsidian skull attached to their face.)
First of all: How do you fire 10 times in a fight? Soldier. Autofire on 4 targets (8 usages of ammo), then free fire with primary target (1 usage of ammo, then punishing salvo (another usage of ammo). Then do it all again next round. Or maybe I should point out the singing coil, which has a usage of ten, meaning a soldier CANNOT use primary fire with it because it runs out of ammo. No, wait, your friend the Prismini took care of that for you.
Starfall Pistol, expend of 5 so you can only fire it off twice before reloading. No, wait, the prismini took care of that for you.
Artillary Laser has an expend of 5, meaning you can fire it twice before needing to spend actions to reload.
Oh, and remember, the prismini can do this to TWO items per casting of the spell. So the artillary laser can be fired for several rounds without penalty, and the soldier can go to town with their rotolaser.
Teamwork breaks the dreamwork.
Also, there is a cantrip that already does this and it is much, MUCH worse. Recharge weapon gives a SINGLE weapon charges equal to it's EXPENDATURE and only UNTIL THE END OF THE NEXT ROUND. So clearly, cantrips were not supposed to be this powerful.