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Just saw this over on Reddit; Guns & Gears is going to get Remastered.
Maybe Dark Archive, and other books (Secrets of Magic, Book of the Dead, Treasure Vault, Rage of Elements), will get a Remaster as well?
What are you looking for in the Remaster version?
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I'm really hoping for an inventor rework or at least for it to have some deep changes made to the class because its easily one of the worst made classes in the system. I said this recently in other thread, but I think the inventor feels like someone that is faking being a craftsmen that somehow stole someone else's inovation but doesn't really know how to use it (otherwise why would it be exploding every encounter?)
I'm not entirely happy with the current gunslinger either, but I feel that's more of a problem on how firearms work in the system and that half of the features of the gunslinger exist only to patch the gunslinger to not have their downsides (or at least help aleviate them). The only thing I would probably change would be making the reloads work as rider effects rather than bespoke actions because everything that interacts with reloading or with the skills that gunslingers use when they reload doesn't really work with the gunslinger's reloads which feels really bad. For example, if you are pistolero gunslinger and have the undead slayer's Frighten Undead feat you'll be able to use that action and then reload your gun. I would also probably change singular expertise to instead be a +1 damage per weapon damage die like Crossbow Crack Shot.
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I'm really hoping for an inventor rework or at least for it to have some deep changes made to the class because its easily one of the worst made classes in the system. I said this recently in other thread, but I think the inventor feels like someone that is faking being a craftsmen that somehow stole someone else's inovation but doesn't really know how to use it (otherwise why would it be exploding every encounter?)
Well, I guess that flavor works for some people's characters but definitely not for everyone.
Tech is hard in RPGs though. Magic, you can argue that you the character are special so you can cast big spells. But "good" technology works the same for everyone, because it's based on impartial natural laws. But that would mean that your class features aren't really yours.
The newly refurbished alchemist seems like they're trying to also not make it too much of a "vending machine" for the rest of the party, and focus on what the alchemist can do because they're a tech expert.
So I do expect the inventor will continue to be designed a lot like "this tech is so cutting edge, it basically shouldn't even be possible at all, but in your expert hands, it works - most of the time".
You need to somehow make it personal for the character/class, and not just be someone who happens to have equipment.
I'm not entirely happy with the current gunslinger either, but I feel that's more of a problem on how firearms work in the system and that half of the features of the gunslinger exist only to patch the gunslinger to not have their downsides (or at least help aleviate them). The only thing I would probably change would be making the reloads work as rider effects rather than bespoke actions because everything that interacts with reloading or with the skills that gunslingers use when they reload doesn't really work with the gunslinger's reloads which feels really bad. For example, if you are pistolero gunslinger and have the undead slayer's Frighten Undead feat you'll be able to use that action and then reload your gun. I would also probably change singular expertise to instead be a +1 damage per weapon damage die like Crossbow Crack Shot.
What I would like is that firearms are mechanically strong enough that you don't have to be a specific class to want them. Like, they should look like good options to rangers and rogues. As good as the other options.
Then, the gunslinger's niche shifts from "making the guns powerful enough to be worth it" to "doing more varied things with guns than only brute power".
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So I do expect the inventor will continue to be designed a lot like "this tech is so cutting edge, it basically shouldn't even be possible at all, but in your expert hands, it works - most of the time".
You need to somehow make it personal for the character/class, and not just be someone who happens to have equipment.
That's the thing, I feel the inventor doesn't really have anything going on for it to sell it as the "I have this amazing tech" class. Weapon innovation is just a regular weapon with some tweaks, construct innovation is a companion with some tech-y flavor, and while armor is the most unique one it also fails at feeling distinct enough from just a regular armor. Overdrive plays similar to a barbarian's rage but way weaker and you can fail to trigger it in the first place. It used to have less restrictions than rage though, but since PC2 the only real advantage inventor has over a barbarian is that its more easy to use at range, though most of the inventor features and feats don't work with ranged weapons for some reason. The class doesn't interact with crafting at all besides overdrive, so what's stopping me or someone else to just play any class in the system, take increases into the Crafting skill, and reflavor all my equipment to either be self-made or be stuff that I found during the adventure but that I tweak to work better for me (you'll likely be adding runes to your equipment, so its not even reflavoring at that point).
The inventor in its current state could easily be a regular archetype. Have the dedication make you choose between weapon, armor, and construct. Take every single single modification and turn them into feats, have a feat that gives you auto-scaling on Crafting, and that's pretty much. It would be a little more cumbersome to have the things you otherwise have at 1st level? Yeah, but since you'll be using the base features of other class it would be way more efficient at doing its job than the current class.
In my earlier comment I probably mentioned some extreme measures I would take to improve the inventor, but probably that isn't really needed. I also thought the swashbuckler was in a similar state of "not working to deliver its promise" before PC2 and just by tweaking some features I truly believe the class is fantastic now. Most of the problems of the inventor IMO come from the class not feeling good to play and lacking flavor.
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I half wonder if most books might be up for a "remaster" in case it needs to be reprinted. For some books this might be as simple as "apply errata, delete mentions of alignment, change dex 14 to dex +2, and replace a few OGLisms with their replacements." Any book with a class in gets the extra attention, of course, but for a lot of books they probably wouldn't need to change much.
Do this then you can remove the OGL license and slap an ORC on there and you're good to go.
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Main thing I hope for for inventor is to be able to change the material your innovation is. For an inventory to not be able to make their weapon adamantium is so silly to me, for example.
Just saw this over on Reddit; Guns & Gears is going to get Remastered.
Maybe Dark Archive, and other books (Secrets of Magic, Book of the Dead, Treasure Vault, Rage of Elements), will get a Remaster as well?
What are you looking for in the Remaster version?
I can't speak to the other books because I don't have them, but for G&G I would like to see a couple of things added to the firearm list:
1) As an option for most of the firearms, rifled barrels. Add one action to the reload time but increase range increment by 33%, 50%, or even more.
2) Flintlock grenade launcher. This was a real weapon, contemporaneous with other flintlocks. Good for lobbing bombs farther than a person can throw them. Maybe with the volley trait?
I think inventor is ok. It offers a decent amount of utility to a solid martial chassis. You can flavour their abilities to be more lile iron man if you lile but their stuff is unstable entirely because they are pushing the limits of what is technologically possible. I think its more a case of your expectation to be somehow better that is out of sync with the setting and ruleset. This is a system where every +1 matters so additional traits on weapons, jet/fly options in class without consumeables are on point. Inventors should be looking for opportunities to use craft to build things to solve problems and GMs should reward them for it. Use craft to aid another using athletics to open a door/box as yoh nade a makeshift crowbar. Use craft to rig a makeshift ladder to climb. Macguyver stuff using craft, its your schtick. In combat you are a second class martial (like investigator) as you have additional utility baseline.
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I would have preferred SoM first but I guess the whole first quarter of the book about the schools of magic needs to be completely excised in some way so more work is required there than for G&G
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I would have preferred SoM first but I guess the whole first quarter of the book about the schools of magic needs to be completely excised in some way so more work is required there than for G&G
Yeah, I think Guns & Gears and also Dark Archive can be remastered with minimal work outside the classes. Secret of Magic has so much OGL stuff in it that it might as well just get a whole new book (like how Divine Mysteries is replacing Gods & Magic).
I'm surprised. G&G seemed like one of the lower candidates for remastering, and with SoM out before it I was pretty sure it'd be up for a reprinting first. Then again, it's possible that came and went and now they're waiting for another.
I'm not. SoM still hasn't even gotten errata, aside from what the remaster forced them into, unlike several books that came years later. Hell, it took over 2 years to get an errata to make Arcane Cascade function. Paizo told us Inner Radiance Torrent was scaling more than intended and would be errata'd nearly 3 years ago, still nothing (and it's been banned in PFS waiting for the errata that entire time).
For some inexplicable reason, Paizo avoids touching SoM like its radioactive.
And that's before going into how much of SoM is impacted by moving away from OGL stuff like spell schools, unlike Guns & Gears which unless there are major class reworks is going to be relatively easy.
Just saw this over on Reddit; Guns & Gears is going to get Remastered.
Maybe Dark Archive, and other books (Secrets of Magic, Book of the Dead, Treasure Vault, Rage of Elements), will get a Remaster as well?
Considering that 1) several of the spells in Secrets of Magic have already been included in Player Core 2 and 2) Rage of Elements was specifically mentioned as being "compatible" with the remastered rules (just change ability score references from 12, 14, etc. to +1, +2, etc.; and maybe tweak a couple spell references), I could see remastering and combining most of the game system mechanics content of Secrets of Magic, Book of the Dead, and Dark Archive into a single book ("Magical Mysteries?" or something similar) while most of the setting content is reprinted in the Lost Omens line. Treasure Vault could possibly use an update, but mostly with changing some of the spell references for magic items (gecko grip instead of spider climb, etc.).
Nice, I hope this happens before our current campaign ends so my armor inventor stops running around with resistance to non-existent alignment damage by RAW.
It's already confirmed Runelords will be making a comeback in Rival Academies. Which raises the question on whether they will be double printed in both books, if Runelords will be carved out of SoM in a reprint and replaced with something else, or if there is still hope for a Divine Mysteries treatment for SoM. Additionally, some SoM spells were printed in PC2, which means that they would not be present in an SoM remake.
I'm assuming that Runelord getting reprinted in Rival Academies is similar to how the Red Mantis archetype got reprinted in Prey For Death, which they used as an opportunity to update it to replace mention of nonexistent spell schools.
Like if they aren't going to remaster certain books, the best legacy stuff to stick in a new book to "fix" it is the stuff where it's not obvious how to adapt it to the remaster. This is generally going to be stuff with spell schools since it's easy to replace "flat-footed" with "off-guard".
So only semi confirmed change I know of is apparently Michael Sayre said it's planned to remove Singular Expertise on the gunslinger and replace it with something that will "add an additional tidbit of differentiation between crossbow and firearm gunslinger..." and be considered "a little more spicy"
Was this mentioned in the GenCon stream?
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So only semi confirmed change I know of is apparently Michael Sayre said it's planned to remove Singular Expertise on the gunslinger and replace it with something that will "add an additional tidbit of differentiation between crossbow and firearm gunslinger..." and be considered "a little more spicy"Was this mentioned in the GenCon stream?
It was from discord, the summary I read is available here.
Did they name a release date?
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Did they name a release date?
Erik Mona mentioned there would be more details revealed after GenCon (in regards to Guns & Gears Remastered).
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Did they name a release date?Erik Mona mentioned there would be more details revealed after GenCon (in regards to Guns & Gears Remastered).
Thanks. So it sounds like booked are being remaster based on reprinting cycles. I'm not sure that bodes well for a player core 3, but it could mean all the other classes still get remastered when their book supply runs out.
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I feel Guns and Gears gets Remastered because Paizo thinks it will have the opportunity to sell more of this book (and the changes do not cost too much effort).
Which pretty much screams Arcadia AP and setting/character books a la Tian-Xia.
Not sure other OGL PF2 books will qualify with such criteria.
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I think that G&G getting remastered first has to do with the fact that Starfinder 2e is on the horizon. With the playtest it seems the operative is going to be an straight upgrade from the gunslinger in almost every way, so I wouldn't be surprised the mechanic happened to be a similar thing for the inventor. Also if Michael Sayre mentioned they are going to remove Singular Expertise to give it something more "spicy" instead it kinda implies the gunslinger is likely going to have its role redifined a little. Probably fully lean towards a martial support character with more stuff like Fake Out?
It's been mentioned that classes from both systems can be used interchangeably, and while I can see many ways in which they could make a mechanically distinct mechanic that doesn't thread on the inventor, the operative is likely going to be an straight up better gunslinger if they don't change some stuff around.
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I feel Guns and Gears gets Remastered because Paizo thinks it will have the opportunity to sell more of this book (and the changes do not cost too much effort).
Which pretty much screams Arcadia AP and setting/character books a la Tian-Xia.
Not sure other OGL PF2 books will qualify with such criteria.
Well, in the instance that a prior PF2 release is out of print they basically have three options:
1) Do not reprint it.
2) Reprint it under the OGL
3) Remove any OGL entanglements and reprint it under the ORC.
Things like "apply errata" were always the standard when it came to reprints, and mostly the remastered classes are "especially thorough errata" so that's likely something you're going to do anyway if you reprint something. So the only option that I think is more or less off the table is #2. #1 has the option to "just make a new book to replace this one", a la Divine Mysteries replacing Gods and Magic.
The books that are most likely to sell out, ceteris paribus, are the ones with new classes in them. Dark Archive seems like a good candidate for remastering, but I think Secrets of Magic gets replaced.
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I feel like Guns & Gears is getting remastered because the pocket edition is sold out and they want to do a reprint. If you're doing a reprint, that's the time to update and put it under ORC so its still available for 3pp. Plus, Paizo doesn't want to be printing OGL material at this point.
If they're doing an Arcadia book or some such they'll definitely want it in print, but it makes sense to do this for anything getting reprinted at this point.
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All this Inventor talk got my juices flowing and I wrote a homebrew for the class, posted to the appropriate part of our forums.
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I think that G&G getting remastered first has to do with the fact that Starfinder 2e is on the horizon. With the playtest it seems the operative is going to be an straight upgrade from the gunslinger in almost every way, so I wouldn't be surprised the mechanic happened to be a similar thing for the inventor. Also if Michael Sayre mentioned they are going to remove Singular Expertise to give it something more "spicy" instead it kinda implies the gunslinger is likely going to have its role redifined a little. Probably fully lean towards a martial support character with more stuff like Fake Out?
It's been mentioned that classes from both systems can be used interchangeably, and while I can see many ways in which they could make a mechanically distinct mechanic that doesn't thread on the inventor, the operative is likely going to be an straight up better gunslinger if they don't change some stuff around.
The "spicy" replacement to Singular Expertise is a new way to differentiate crossbow-wielding Gunslingers and gun-wielding Gunslingers. Quotes from Michael Sayre:
MS: "It adds an additional tidbit of differentiation between crossbow and firearm gunslingers and gives the gunslinger a little something I always wanted it to have and which no one can stop me from giving it now :laughing:"
Chatter: "ooooh something specific for crossbowslingers is exciting for me as a no gun table!"
MS: "More something that tweaks the way gunslinger takes advantage of one vs. the other."
I think that G&G getting remastered first has to do with the fact that Starfinder 2e is on the horizon. With the playtest it seems the operative is going to be an straight upgrade from the gunslinger in almost every way, so I wouldn't be surprised the mechanic happened to be a similar thing for the inventor. Also if Michael Sayre mentioned they are going to remove Singular Expertise to give it something more "spicy" instead it kinda implies the gunslinger is likely going to have its role redifined a little. Probably fully lean towards a martial support character with more stuff like Fake Out?
It's been mentioned that classes from both systems can be used interchangeably, and while I can see many ways in which they could make a mechanically distinct mechanic that doesn't thread on the inventor, the operative is likely going to be an straight up better gunslinger if they don't change some stuff around.
The "spicy" replacement to Singular Expertise is a new way to differentiate crossbow-wielding Gunslingers and gun-wielding Gunslingers. Quotes from Michael Sayre:
MS: "It adds an additional tidbit of differentiation between crossbow and firearm gunslingers and gives the gunslinger a little something I always wanted it to have and which no one can stop me from giving it now :laughing:"
Chatter: "ooooh something specific for crossbowslingers is exciting for me as a no gun table!"
MS: "More something that tweaks the way gunslinger takes advantage of one vs. the other."
I mean, that doesn't prove what I said was wrong though. Clearly the replacement isn't going to be a damage steroid because otherwise they would say they are going to errata singular expertise and not replace it with something else, though I don't know what exactly could replace it to make guns and crossbows feel different. It clearly isn?t going to be soemthing that replaces reloading or something like that because the class is built around that, but regardless of that, regardless of whatever thing they create to replace singular expertise that doesn't prove that they couldn't retailor certain feats towards support.
However, I certainly do expect to have all the gunslinger's reloads to be tweaked to work like the Mobile Reload of the operative. For example, a pistolero gunslinger would be able to interact to reload when using the Create a Diversion or Demoralize actions and not just the Raconteur's Reload action (which likely won't exist anymore). In the case of the inventor I expect a more in-depth revision because the class as is doesn't really work IMO, but the least I expect is a revamp of unstable to make it similar to the new oracle's cursebound trait.
The weapon inventor definitely needs a way to get access to an advanced weapon (possibly with an ancestry trait). Since the Barricade Buster was "Developed by a half-orc inventor from Alkenstar" but there is no way for an inventor to have that weapon as their innovation because it's advanced and not martial. You can get the orc weapon familiarity feat to treat it as a martial weapon *for the purposes of proficiency* but that doesn't help the inventor who wants to pick it for their innovation.
This is less a buff and more of a "please make the mechanics match the lore" since who is honestly going to develop a better dorn-dergar other than a dwarf?
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The weapon inventor definitely needs a way to get access to an advanced weapon (possibly with an ancestry trait). Since the Barricade Buster was "Developed by a half-orc inventor from Alkenstar" but there is no way for an inventor to have that weapon as their innovation because it's advanced and not martial. You can get the orc weapon familiarity feat to treat it as a martial weapon *for the purposes of proficiency* but that doesn't help the inventor who wants to pick it for their innovation.
This is less a buff and more of a "please make the mechanics match the lore" since who is honestly going to develop a better dorn-dergar other than a dwarf?
This, so much this. I'd also just like to see more modifications in general, but especially for Weapons and double especially for Firearms (giving them Capacity or Repeating or at least Double Barrel).
It's super disappointing that an Inventor can just go buy something like a Repeating Crossbow but they not only have 0 ways of tinkering with it (it's Advanced), the also can't even turn a normal crossbow into anything resembling a Repeater through Weapon Innovation.
And Unstable and Overdrive need serious changes, but that has already been discussed in this thread.
A part of the reason on why I would want modifications to become feats is because Paizo seems to not like to expand on classes that were already printed if it isn't through feats (I really want an aether and void kineticist lol). Inventor is already a niche class so its very unlikely for it to receive more innovations or modifications, but if those were feats instead I could see Paizo having a random NPC from an AP that's an inventor and add a few feats with modifications for inventors.
I mean, the PC2 remaster allowed them to create whole new feats from whole cloth when they created more page space, so an appropriate thing to do with the Inventor in the G&G remaster is "if you can open up some page space, please give us more modifications."
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You know, it occured to me a very elegant fix to the Overdrive/Unstable problem would be to link them similar to how Panache is linked to Finishers.
First, we change Unstable. Instead of the flat check, we make it so Unstable trait actions need you to be in Overdrive to be used, and they end Overdrive after they've been used (like how Finishers need Panache and consume your Panache).
Then we change Overdrive so that Failure gives us Half-Int do Damage, Success gives us Full-Int and Crit Success gives us Full-Int + our next Unstable trait action doesn't end Overdrive. We get rid of the Crit Failure effect, since it adds nothing. We keep the 1 minute duration, but we get rid of being able retry to test, to incentivise people using more Unstable actions to cycle their Overdrive failures.
It's a pipe dream but hey, it gets rid of Unstable being far too random, it makes Overdrive better and it actually saves you page space.
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I've been playing my inventor for two and a half years now and I really don't want them to turn the class into a steampunk-swashbuckler.
I wouldn't be against that (its clearly better than what we have) but optimally I think something that isn't a carbon copy of another class would be better. As I said, something like the new cursebound from oracle that makes your innovation a little harder to use each time you use unstable would feel more appropiate.