Has anyone found a list of Spells in Player Core 2? I have heard barely anything about them from Youtube or any other source of media. If someone has a link to a thread about the new spells, please let us know!
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No, I've just seen bits and pieces. Live Wire is a new OP cantrip that will get zero day errata most likely (check Reddit for threads on this one), Synesthesia and Visions of Danger, my top two picks for nerfs or removal, got reprinted unchanged, and Spell Turning has a new name and resdesign that's now a reaction cast.
I'm sure there's a dozen intersting things in that chapter that no one has read or publicized yet.
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I know Enervation got changed to a 60 ft range 10 ft burst spell from a 30 ft line. It also had a name change that I remember can’t right now.
Edit: It’s called Whispers of the Void now.
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The new floating disk replacement - Carryall - seems neat. Not sure if its been discussed elsewhere. Mechanics are a little different (and demand Sustains from the caster) but it can heighten to carry other people and fly up into the air!
Resilient sphere got a rename, can affect creatures of any size, and can be heightened to increase its Hit Points. Also quite neat.
Force cage has been reworked into Lifewood cage, but uses many of the same rules (including being invisible, which is very funny for a cage made of wood). Invisibility sphere was also renamed, gets a larger aoe, and no longer immediately ends during the first round of combat.
Quite a few other interesting changes, but nothing too dramatic other than live wire based on places I've been listening.
Reportedly unchanged. So is Visions of Danger - it still does the double hit when first cast plus them starting their turn in the AOE.
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What does Live Wire do, and why is everyone so worked up about it?
It's a spell attack fires a d4 slashing/d4 electricity wire that does half damage on a miss, which is unprecedented but cool, scales at d4/d4 per rank which is unprecendented and bonkers for a cantrip (probably meant to be +2 rank) and also does d4 persistent electricity on a crit.
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The spell attack roll that does the electricity half on a miss is clearly the spell's gimmick that differentiates itself. I'd bet the heightening is what needs errata.
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Half damage on a simple miss of an attack spell is something I have been expecting for quite some time. Great to finally have it.
It's a good solution to make attack spells competitive with save spells while keep it compatible with EA and Magus.
Puff of poison got a sort-of nerfbat, in that it deals 1d4 rather than 1d8 initial damage and no persistent damage on a success (though 1d4 persistent rather than a flat 2). Scaling is better for the persistent poison (1d4 per heighten).
Was there any clarification if it's intended to actually use the inhaled trait mechanic of spitting out a lingering 2x2 cloud at a 5ft range? It seems that the trait's mechanic was a rather obscure / unknown detail of the spell, but I used the "makes a cloud" version in Gatewalkers with no balance issues. I actually had to drop it off my cantrips, as even that version could not really compete against the likes of Gouging Claw or Shield.
Even though there are plenty of other bad air / poison cloud spells, Puff of Poison is the only spell to use that trait (which is usually there to make alch poisons like Mustard Powder function)
An inhaled poison is activated by unleashing it from its container. Once unleashed, the poison creates a cloud filling a 10-foot cube lasting for 1 minute or until a strong wind dissipates the cloud. Every creature entering this cloud is exposed to the poison and must attempt a saving throw against it; a creature aware of the poison before entering the cloud can use a single action to hold its breath and gain a +2 circumstance bonus to the saving throw for 1 round.
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Was there any clarification if it's intended to actually use the inhaled trait mechanic of spitting out a lingering 2x2 cloud at a 5ft range? It seems that the trait's mechanic was a rather obscure / unknown detail of the spell, but I used the "makes a cloud" version in Gatewalkers with no balance issues. I actually had to drop it off my cantrips, as even that version could not really compete against the likes of Gouging Claw or Shield.
No more Inhaled trait for Puff of Poison thankfully. The last change I noticed is that it has a range of 10 ft now.
Was there any clarification if it's intended to actually use the inhaled trait mechanic of spitting out a lingering 2x2 cloud at a 5ft range? It seems that the trait's mechanic was a rather obscure / unknown detail of the spell, but I used the "makes a cloud" version in Gatewalkers with no balance issues. I actually had to drop it off my cantrips, as even that version could not really compete against the likes of Gouging Claw or Shield.No more Inhaled trait for Puff of Poison thankfully. The last change I noticed is that it has a range of 10 ft now.
Ha ha ha, well at least it means they were aware enough to take the trait off.
And by being a same-name edit, there's no way to use the old version.
Kinda funny to think I might be one of the dozen of players to ever use that spell in it's AoE form.
It wasn't trash, I swear! The lingering threat of a cloud gave it a unique use, dammit! Ah well. It sucks a bit that I can guess it will be a long time before Paizo will ever give a cantrip that kind of utility again.
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The thing about Live Wire. It either gets to keep it's insane Failure effect of half damage for an Attack Roll Spell or it's a incredibly weak Cantrip at 2d4 damage instead of 3d4 or 2d6. It also only has 30ft of range which is not broken by any means. This is how Attack Roll spells should have functioned in the beginning. Half damage on a failure, full damage on a success and double on a critical success. Flipped for Saving throw spells but the point is still there. Giving this sort of effect would bring much balance to spells.
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The thing about Live Wire. It either gets to keep it's insane Failure effect of half damage for an Attack Roll Spell or it's a incredibly weak Cantrip at 2d4 damage instead of 3d4 or 2d6.
The half damage on fail isn't the strong thing about the spell. Save spells do the same, after all. The strong thing is the insane Heightening of only +1 for 2d4 extra damage, which is unheard of on cantrips.
Both is true IMO. Caster players usually runs away from attack spells due its no failure effect and if it have a heightening that's similarly powerful like Gouging Claw and Imaginary Weapon it will be huge for a non-melee cantrip.
Remember that attack spells could be also used with True Strikes or Shadow Signet what can make this spell very powerful.
But if it is a rank 1 spell so it's OK, it's bellow the normal 2d6 damage heightening.
Someone made a table comparing it with outer cantrips in reddit and the effectiveness isn't too far from Gouging Claw. What's make it so powerful is that it's ranged and have a failure effect.
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The thing about Live Wire. It either gets to keep it's insane Failure effect of half damage for an Attack Roll Spell or it's a incredibly weak Cantrip at 2d4 damage instead of 3d4 or 2d6.The half damage on fail isn't the strong thing about the spell. Save spells do the same, after all. The strong thing is the insane Heightening of only +1 for 2d4 extra damage, which is unheard of on cantrips.Doesn't Live Wire damage only scale 1d4 on a critical hit?
The spell says "Heightened (+1) The slashing damage, initial electricity damage, and persistent electricity damage on a CRITICAL HIT each
increase by 1d4."I think everyone is assuming it gets +1d4 per Heightened +1, but to me it reads that only critical damage gets the +1d4.
That makes Live Wire a crappy spell, because my caster never crits against AC.
This is a silly reading.
All parts of Live Wire's damage scale when heightened, and do so in accordance to the part you quoted.
A 3rd rank Live Wire would deal 3d4 slashing and 3d4 electricity.
On a crit it would deal 3d4 slashing (x2) + 3d4 electricity (x2) + 3d4 persisent electricity damage.
It's a very good cantrip.
If it remains as such post-errata is another matter entirely, but this is how it currently works.
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I know Enervation got changed to a 60 ft range 10 ft burst spell from a 30 ft line. It also had a name change that I remember can’t right now.
Edit: It’s called Whispers of the Void now.
Doesn't Live Wire damage only scale 1d4 on a critical hit?
The spell says "Heightened (+1) The slashing damage, initial electricity damage, and persistent electricity damage on a CRITICAL HIT each
increase by 1d4."I think everyone is assuming it gets +1d4 per Heightened +1, but to me it reads that only critical damage gets the +1d4.
That makes Live Wire a crappy spell, because my caster never crits against AC.
Note that part that says they "EACH increase by 1d4", which to me clearly indicates that all of the damage types increase by 1d4. If the intent was that only the critical damage increased, then the Heightened (+1) description would probably just say "The persistent electricity damage on a critical hit increases by 1d4" and it wouldn't mention the other damage types at all. Also, I can't think of any spell or cantrip that only increases the critical damage and not the regular damage, so that would be pretty unprecedented.
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What are the odds that the power of Live Wire is an intentional bit of power-creep and the Paizo team is trying to gauge what the response to such a jump in Cantrip power would be like? And we might get more Cantrips of this power level in the future, or even erratas to old ones to up their power level?
For the record, I think this is the least likely of the potential reasons for the intense over-tuning of this Cantrip, but I haven't seen anyone suggest it, so I thought I'd at least throw it into the discussion.
What are the odds that the power of Live Wire is an intentional bit of power-creep and the Paizo team is trying to gauge what the response to such a jump in Cantrip power would be like? And we might get more Cantrips of this power level in the future, or even erratas to old ones to up their power level?
For the record, I think this is the least likely of the potential reasons for the intense over-tuning of this Cantrip, but I haven't seen anyone suggest it, so I thought I'd at least throw it into the discussion.
Considering that they nerfed the damage on a bunch of cantrips in Player Core by removing the spellcasting ability modifier, now turning around and making a deliberately overpowered one that is only available to two traditions would be a choice. That'd put us back into the days of CRB, where Divine casters were constantly fishing for ways to get cantrips from other lists.
I think it's far more likely that it's just overtuned accidentally. Player Core 2's editing left a LOT to be desired, so its pretty easy to believe this slipped through.
What are the odds that the power of Live Wire is an intentional bit of power-creep and the Paizo team is trying to gauge what the response to such a jump in Cantrip power would be like? And we might get more Cantrips of this power level in the future, or even erratas to old ones to up their power level?
For the record, I think this is the least likely of the potential reasons for the intense over-tuning of this Cantrip, but I haven't seen anyone suggest it, so I thought I'd at least throw it into the discussion.
Considering that they nerfed the damage on a bunch of cantrips in Player Core by removing the spellcasting ability modifier, now turning around and making a deliberately overpowered one that is only available to two traditions would be a choice. That'd put us back into the days of CRB, where Divine casters were constantly fishing for ways to get cantrips from other lists.
I think it's far more likely that it's just overtuned accidentally. Player Core 2's editing left a LOT to be desired, so its pretty easy to believe this slipped through.
There's also my theory that they are actively nerfing things to make the new options look more attractive (and thus make more sales).
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I think it's far more likely that it's just overtuned accidentally. Player Core 2's editing left a LOT to be desired, so its pretty easy to believe this slipped through.
I agree.
While they are better and faster at fixing things than certain other companies, they only really do it if they have to. Which is frustrating for long term players.
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There's also my theory that they are actively nerfing things to make the new options look more attractive (and thus make more sales).What are the odds that the power of Live Wire is an intentional bit of power-creep and the Paizo team is trying to gauge what the response to such a jump in Cantrip power would be like? And we might get more Cantrips of this power level in the future, or even erratas to old ones to up their power level?
For the record, I think this is the least likely of the potential reasons for the intense over-tuning of this Cantrip, but I haven't seen anyone suggest it, so I thought I'd at least throw it into the discussion.
Considering that they nerfed the damage on a bunch of cantrips in Player Core by removing the spellcasting ability modifier, now turning around and making a deliberately overpowered one that is only available to two traditions would be a choice. That'd put us back into the days of CRB, where Divine casters were constantly fishing for ways to get cantrips from other lists.
I think it's far more likely that it's just overtuned accidentally. Player Core 2's editing left a LOT to be desired, so its pretty easy to believe this slipped through.
That seems pretty unlikely for a lot of reasons, and in this particular case seems pretty absurd. They didn't have player core 2 figured out when they wrote player core 1, and most people who bought the latter already bought the former.
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There's also my theory that they are actively nerfing things to make the new options look more attractive (and thus make more sales).
I'm not really buying that its a deliberate plan, though power creep in new books is a known phenomenon in this space. Given how obvious/ridiculous some of the errors in Player Core 2 are, "we ran out of time" is a far more likely explanation.
They've got too many books coming out too fast and its showing with some of this stuff. Feels like the bad days of PF1 again with new stuff constantly coming out and no time to properly test most of it.
I think it's far more likely that it's just overtuned accidentally. Player Core 2's editing left a LOT to be desired, so its pretty easy to believe this slipped through.I agree.
While they are better and faster at fixing things than certain other companies, they only really do it if they have to. Which is frustrating for long term players.
Seriously. The lack of day 0 errata on Oracle is galling for basic things like "how many spells does it actually get in its repitoire?" Leading to a PFS ruling that we think says one thing and tools like Pathbuilder assuming something else.
And then there's stuff like Arcane Cascade, which didn't work RAW for years, as Paizo avoids errata on SoM as if its radioactive. But in general editing quality seems to have slipped this year, and I blame that on the sheer quantity of books coming out.
One of the things I liked about PF2 over PF1 is that stuff generally felt better thought out rather than "churn out as many options as possible". That belief is really getting tested lately.
Can't say I'm surprised at the downturn in quality. I even predicted it.
Hopefully it is just a temporary situation and things will pick back up soon.
Paizo has talked about how the whole remaster project really jacked up their production schedule, so yeah, mistakes are happening.