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I don't think this has been linked yet: a video from BadLuckGamer giving more a more systematic coverage of the changes. In particular, starting halfway through you've got a more thorough go-through of all the new/changed feats, rather than just highlights.
There are a couple of things I hadn't seen elsewhere, like a Level 2 Additive feat that lets QA poisons do their item level as damage if the target succeeds their initial save. (Any poison, not just injury poisons.) But more than any one thing, it's nice to have a more comprehensive video that doesn't seem likely to have missed anything big. (I'll still want the full text in front of me before figuring out finicky stuff, like whether you can draw a versatile vial from your toolkit as part of using a field vial action.)
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So... question.
We have three sources of alchemical goodies.
Daily prep at 6+int
Versatile vials at 2+int per day
and the unlimited quick alchemy versatile vials (only for the basic acid/field use)
Do I have to eat through other resources, before using the unlimited quick alchemy versatile Vials or can I rely on them for my basic cantrip-bomb/field use and save normal versatile vials for actual alchemical items? Or is it just the action cost of Action: Quick-Alchemy and then Action: use?
I'm pretty sure you can use the recharging VVials for QVial uses.
This will matter for Draw circumvention.
Maybe 2A Make + Slather is too bad of action economy for Tox to ever want to do their VV use, but if a Tox can bypass the Draw for a 1A slather, then it might be worth the action. There's also the angle of a reg VV not fading after application until 10min later, so you can clip across turns with that method as well.
It's seem like only Toxicologist and Bomber have abilities that grant combat utility from the beginning.
The only thing about Chirurgeon that excites me is the Craft/Medicine substitution.
It's giving Frankenstein vibes, and I love it.
The maxed healing at 13 is also great, but that's it.
The bases class abilities seem to offer many options by themselves.
Someone said that there is not a Reach elixir, but I think Choker-Arm Mutagen should fit the bill.
Someone mentioned leveraging the Archer Archetype, I am curious if Alchemical Ammunition could be made to work work for a Hawkeye/Green Arrow build.
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I think every field of study benefits from dabbling in the tools of every other field of study. Prepoisoning the fighters blade is often a good idea in exploration, everyone can use ranged bomb options with some AOE capability that can be applied improvements with feats, a melee chirurgeon healer may want a juggernaut mutagen with the physical resistance feat up, etc.
This is one of my fave parts of the alchemist. You pick a subclass, but you're able to invest in other areas, which gives you a great deal of customisability, even by pf2e standards. A lot of my fave classes do this, actually.
I don't think this has been linked yet: a video from BadLuckGamer giving more a more systematic coverage of the changes.
Thanks for the link, very instructive. Unlike Barbarian and Oracle changes, these ones make me unambiguously happy. Even if my Mutagenist will switch to Toxicologist, I'll keep my gameplay and it's overall a nice little buff. My second Chirurgeon on the other hand will become an absolute beast. And my first Chirurgeon... well, she was retired and will stay retired. No miracle has been done (but I'm fine with that, it's not PC2 that killed her).
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Quick Alchemy's free VVs made via Quick Vial cannot be turned into items, only used raw.
I've been trying to call those Quick Vials/ QVs, or Field Vials/ FVs to keep them separate from the recharging VVs.
Quick Bomber + Double Brew enables action compression for any Alchemist interested in throwing a raw QV -AND- using another crafted item.
For a Chiurgeon, it would be Double Brew: Quick Vial first, which is made and thrown for 1A via compatibility with Quick Bomber. That costs 0 VVs.
I then spend 1 VV with the 2nd half of Double Brew to make the thing I care about for 0 Actions.
After that 1A, I have the created item in my hand and have thrown an insta-QV. I can spend my 2nd Action to use the item.
I have my 3rd action open for anything.
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Note that Double Brew seems to still require 2 open hands to do this, which is really sucky and a big ask.
But considering that Alchemist has no other way to help their action economy, I'm afraid that 90% of my turns as a Chiurgeon will involve this routine.
Spending 2A raw to make and use a healing elixir is just too bad a deal, and Chi's L13 feature is locked to only Elixirs of Life, and only when made via Quick Alchemy. Even making 2 different elixirs is basically a no-go, as that would involve all 3 actions being: Q-Alch + Activate + Activate
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6-7 VVs should be plenty at a 1 p turn burn, even if I choose to tax my limit with an upkeep prebuff.
Sometimes I might spend an extra VV to make a list bomb instead of the QV freebie, like a Skunk turn 1, or I might spend a VV to Combine boost the created elixir.
But I still foresee me being completely chained to Double Brew Quick Bomber. It's honestly not okay for the whole class to be chained to that kind of super narrow action compression.
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Overall, this is looking really bad for Chiurgeons. I used 95% of my items as pre-made for 1A via an item relay familiar + Retrieval Belt.
Throwing bombs(QVs) first is the only way I can use a recharging VV item for 1A.
QVs are NOT a substitute for a weapon. They can never benefit from runes. The moment Double Brew becomes available at L9, weapons will already be getting their elemental Property runes. I am going to be throwing a whole lot of QVs in the future, but only because I would otherwise be doing literally nothing with that action.
I used to be able to get Calculated Splash to add 3-4 damage to bombs, which is essentially a d6 right there.
Even that optional Feat is gone.
Because I'll need to use Double Brew, I can no longer hold a Returning Spear affixed w/ a Spellheart and modded w/ an Alchemical Siphon as my "baseline" attack option, as Double Brew requires 2 hands.
This change of the "1A elixir" method into a 2A routine also prevents me from using it alongside cantrips or any 2A option anymore. S~%+. Thinking this through, this one is really, really painful. Having access to reliably scaling EA via a Jolt Coil was a big help, both to conserve bombs and to just outright beat their damage.
Because that 1A elixir is so important, I think I may resort to attempting a familiar holding an Alchemical Chart to Quick Alchemy + handoff as a 2 turn routine, but I don't think it's going to be viable in practice.
That requires Independent + Manual Dex + Lab Assistant, meaning it's literally not possible without going outside Alchemist for a Dedication (because Alch is denied Enhanced Familiar, for "reasons").
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The more I sit on this, the more I think this Remaster was a big failure to meet its goals for the Alchemist. For every goal they "achieved" they also did the exact opposite.
Alchemist is now much more complicated than before.
Sometimes the Alchemist may have more resources, but sometimes they will have far fewer.
They added more restrictions, more jank, more gotchas.
The new "infinite" Field Vial options replacing the old "infinite" Perpetual items are generally a flop, with Chiurgeon's FVials being an outright downgrade from their old Perpetual Infusions.
The L8 Feat to get 1 Perpetual from another type was also a great backup, via a status bomb (Skunks), but that is also gone.
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I still cannot believe they buffed Quick Bomber into a 3:1 Action compression and added 0 action economy helpers for everything else.
I'm honestly a little furious that they gave Investigator access to a Feat that enables one to Quick Make + Pass the created item for a single Action. Boy, I sure would love for that item-helper Feat to be an option for the one item-making class.
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Okay I think I get that now thank you
I think you may have also missed that Double Brew isn't a feat; it's a class feature, so every Alchemist gets it for free. The old Alchemist had it too, so I expect people are talking like everyone's familiar with it already.
Double Brew is also a lot more versatile than just throwing bombs. As long as you have both hands free, it bumps the number of any alchemical consumables you can create and use per turn from 1 to 2 (assuming they both take 1 action to use). Bombs, elixirs, mutagens, quick vials, smokescreens, glowsticks, cake, salad, ice cream, whatever.
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Bombs, elixirs, mutagens, quick vials, smokescreens, glowsticks, cake, salad, ice cream, whatever.
Dont't forget the Coffee, a vitally important staple for all the Agents of Edgewatch ;)
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Dont't forget the Coffee, a vitally important staple for all the Agents of Edgewatch ;)
We can't let the Investigators know that we can make coffee, they'll never leave us alone if we do!
QVs are NOT a substitute for a weapon. They can never benefit from runes. The moment Double Brew becomes available at L9, weapons will already be getting their elemental Property runes.
Are they not? I think that they make going without a weapon a legitimate possibility, at least if you're not a Toxicologist. The splash damage puts them ahead of other simple options innately, and that's before adding Quick Bomber's action economy. Maybe you can do a bit better by investing in Str and a bunch of weapon upgrades, but this is Alchemist, their normal weapon attacks suck compared to martials. They'd rather be doing anything else, it's just before they didn't have anything else. And I'd rather spend that weapon upgrade money elsewhere.
As long as your table is OK with legacy content, you can still take Calculated Splash for +2 or +3 to splash damage, and Expanded Splash is still available at higher levels to boost bomb splash further. Friendly fire is a worry for non-bombers, but Directional Bombs can control that while letting you further exploit the AoE, or you can just use some of the money you saved on not buying weapon runes to buy some Backfire Mantles.
I won't deny that there's jank here, particularly with Double Brew + Quick Bomber strongly favouring 2x free hands for action economy, but the QV bombs feel like a serious leg-up and something the Alchemist really needed. There are issues with how the benefits are spread across the research fields, but it's still very nice for everyone to have IMO.
This change of the "1A elixir" method into a 2A routine also prevents me from using it alongside cantrips or any 2A option anymore.
Can't you still get a familiar with manual dexterity + lab assistant to QA and administer/pass an elixir on your behalf? I appreciate that shifting away from prepped items has weakened a bunch of action savers, but I feel like elixirs is one place that hasn't been hit so hard.
It's seem like only Toxicologist and Bomber have abilities that grant combat utility from the beginning.
The only thing about Chirurgeon that excites me is the Craft/Medicine substitution.
It's giving Frankenstein vibes, and I love it.
The maxed healing at 13 is also great, but that's it.The bases class abilities seem to offer many options by themselves.
Someone said that there is not a Reach elixir, but I think Choker-Arm Mutagen should fit the bill.
Someone mentioned leveraging the Archer Archetype, I am curious if Alchemical Ammunition could be made to work work for a Hawkeye/Green Arrow build.
It takes a bit to come on line but chirurgeons as far as I can see are the kings of healing statuses now. With the feats for it their stuff looks like they have hands down the best ability to help fix negative conditions on a party. With the action economy buffs with their ability to lob healing potions and their quick vial heals seems a solid level of all day maintenance heals that stack with medicine. If you want to play an alchemist healer they seem to be able to do that job a lot better.
I think it could even throw the item (10' ranged increment) if it can make the DC 15 ranged attack.
You are meaning the ranged option of Interact: Pass off or Take, right?
Because a familiar couldn't throw a bomb as a strike.
A pet can’t make Strikes.
For reasons.
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The problem with toxicologist is that they didn't make poisoning weapons in combat functional. How is the blowgun poisoner feat supposed to work?
Create poison. Apply poison. Strike. Next turn.
You can poison your ammunitions before the fight. No need to do it during the fight (luckily).
Can't you still get a familiar with manual dexterity + lab assistant to QA and administer/pass an elixir on your behalf? I appreciate that shifting away from prepped items has weakened a bunch of action savers, but I feel like elixirs is one place that hasn't been hit so hard.
There's reportedly a new familiar ability that grants it a 2 action "take elixir, stride, administer" activity to the familiar. I think that's it, anyway. Might be two strides and a deliver, but there's some sort of action compression going on. Requires manual dexterity.
The problem with toxicologist is that they didn't make poisoning weapons in combat functional.
I agree that QVs don't really work as applied poisons. Just throw the vials, even without quick bomber.
But VVs can be used to prepoison during exploration. They last ten minutes, same as your regeneration. Just start combat with two prepoisoned weapons, two vials expended, and 1-99 rounds left on your poison duration to use it.
It takes a bit to come on line but chirurgeons as far as I can see are the kings of healing statuses now. With the feats for it their stuff looks like they have hands down the best ability to help fix negative conditions on a party. With the action economy buffs with their ability to lob healing potions and their quick vial heals seems a solid level of all day maintenance heals that stack with medicine. If you want to play an alchemist healer they seem to be able to do that job a lot better.
I think the 2nd level Soothing Vials (or whatever) for mental rerolls is the only thing unique to them, and the only one that works with QVs. The other condition removal feat chain is an additive, so it only works with VVs, not QVs. Any field alchemist can use them equally as well with any healing elixir they make with QA.
Using finite resources to poison ammo has always been pretty dodgy economics, since you need to hit AND you need to make the save for that resource to not be wasted. You also don't want to be attacking with MAP, since that makes it even more likely you waste your resource. Perpetual poisons made it work, since there was zero cost to just poisoning every arrow the party owns. The loss of perpetual poisons means that Toxicologists have a harder time using ranged weapons, or supporting ranged weapon users.
Poisoning melee weapons or returning thrown weapons is much more cost-effective, particularly mid-combat, since you can keep on swinging until you land a hit. In particular, it used to be that the Thrower's Bandolier was a great pick for a Toxicologist, since you could have multiple thrown/melee weapons poisoned and runed, and even if you don't use returning runes you can just magic your missed shots back into the bandolier for the next fight. You could also use Valet on a familiar or Quick Draw from the Duelist archetype dedication to improve your weapon draw speed, as well as supporting drawing other prepared items / prepared bombs respectively.
...I'm not sure how much that applies now. You have fewer day-long items, and making poisons in daily prep means you lose out on the new additive feat anyway. That means if you are pre-poisoning weapons, you're doing it from your limited per-encounter pool, so you'll only use a few. Still, it saves actions, so it's better than doing it mid-combat.
(It's funny that the Toxicologist gets a reduced action cost to apply poisons, but still everyone wants to avoid using in-combat actions to do so. Funnier still is that Rogues and Poisoner archetype users get an even better action compressor that also lets them use contact poisons on weapons.)
(Please don't use contact poisons mid-combat. Forget I told you about that. They have an onset time of 1 minute. One of you should be dead by then already.)
All that said, the Thrower's Bandolier + Quick Draw now has the advantage of making it easier to keep your hands completely free so you can exploit Double Brew's interaction with Quick Vials and Quick Bomber. Yes, it's awkward that you need a weapon in hand to use the Toxi's field action, but I'm not sure how much you want to be using that anyway.
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You can poison your ammunitions before the fight. No need to do it during the fight (luckily).The problem with toxicologist is that they didn't make poisoning weapons in combat functional. How is the blowgun poisoner feat supposed to work?
Create poison. Apply poison. Strike. Next turn.
Couldn't any alchemist do that?
I think the disappointment comes from not getting the same sweet deal in your specilty that a Bomber gets in theirs.Bomber can select an Elemental weakness to target.
It just works.
Then they get Quick Bomber to make throwing bombs even better.
Is there an action saving feat for applying poisons?
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You can poison your ammunitions before the fight. No need to do it during the fight (luckily).The problem with toxicologist is that they didn't make poisoning weapons in combat functional. How is the blowgun poisoner feat supposed to work?
Create poison. Apply poison. Strike. Next turn.Couldn't any alchemist do that?
I think the disappointment comes from not getting the same sweet deal in your specilty that a Bomber gets in theirs.
Bomber can select an Elemental weakness to target.
It just works.
Then they get Quick Bomber to make throwing bombs even better.
Is there an action saving feat for applying poisons?
No. They just get the action saver for applying poisons (that only last one round and are weak and could have more easily been thrown to at least guarantee some splash damage).
Everyone but bomber has field stuff that doesn't really do much. Chirurgeon's QVs are weak healing that's once per combat (and slow/action inefficient once you can spam against desperate straights PCs at 11th), Toxicologist can't really apply QVs effectively in combat or use the negligible splash to persistent conversion they get later (just throw poison bombs), Mutagenist has lots of problems (applying mutagen in round 1 is action ineffecient, there are better elixirs for temp HP, using two actions to suppress a mutagen drawback is insane, etc.).
Is there an action saving feat for applying poisons?
Poison weapon lets you draw and apply a poison as one action, that's two actions saved over normal.
It's just a rogue feat so you have to archetype to pick it up.
Using QVs does not compare against an Alchemist using a weapon.
I either go for the fully decked out returning weapon, or a Gakgung usually.
The returning spear has Striking runes + STR damage to already match the QV + splash, then has +1d4 via the Siphon, starts combat pre-poisoned, and gets another +1d4 via Jolt Coil.
That is especially good early game before elemental property runes are there to make the Returning Rune using the slot a damage loss. (Can't do a Bandolier build without Quick Draw)
After +2 fundamental & elemental property runes, if you want to invest to get martial weapons you can swap to a bow and no longer worry about reloading the siphon with L1 bombs, get a much higher range, and can swap from the Jolt Coil to a Warding Statuette to provide allies w/ +1AC for free on-hit.
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Which is all to say no, throwing QVs lacks the ability to be used as a primary weapon. Runes matter.
Bombs really have a lot of their power locked inside their on-hit no save, just happens effects.
As Additives cannot be used with QVs, this means that I cannot even invest in something like Debilitating Bombs + Perpetual Bombs to invoke a save or Slow + Sick in an AoE via Skunks, along with a 2nd debuff at the same time to justify the 2A throw of the bomb.
I think post-remaster, I'm going to be in melee w/ Handwraps now once Double Brew comes online. I was already considering Handwraps, but now I really don't have a choice.
There's just no way to boost bombs that'll let it keep up. One of my Chiurgeons even has Gravity Weapon because we need more damage, and that's the only other boost I could find. (It also seems to still be compatible with QVs for those looking to boost them)
I was looking at Mutagens, to see what the Mutagenist was getting in return for an action.
I dont see any downsides that are worth spending an action.a round to supress.
It also turns out I dont really know what Mutagenists do in combat.
I thought they "monstered out " but i dont see any alchemy items that would really support a Mr Hyde combat style.
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Bestial Mutagen is the “kill things with fangs and jaws” one. Juggernaut is “hard to kill,” and there’s an 8th(?) level feat that improves both of these. Strong at 13th if you have both up and are willing to rank your reflex and will saves. Numbing/soothing vials and Troll Armor items also support a “die hard” style, and all can be given to allies.
Mutagen downside suppression is two actions a round: one to drink, one to create the quick vial. Not great, Bob! Even when the accompanying physical resistance comes online.
Lots of dead or minor features here. 13th double mutagen is strong, and so is the option to reroll a fort save and end a mutagen. But the rest is not great. I can see planning a strength build to use mutagens in combat but taking chirurgeon as my field. Plenty of feats to help mutagens along don’t require the field be your specialty, the healing one and acid vomit are both good.
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Mutagenist has lots of problems (applying mutagen in round 1 is action ineffecient
Use the Collar of the Shifting Spider for that. You gain nearly 1 hit point per level with the level 1 ability, it's not bad on a martial.
But I agree that 2 actions to suppress a Mutagen downside is a joke. Overall, the Mutagenist Research Field is really focused on the Bestial Mutagen. If you want to play a Weapon Mutagenist you now switch to Toxicologist.
Everyone but bomber has field stuff that doesn't really do much.
Toxicologist's poison circumventing Poison Immunity/Resistance is massive. Chirurgeon's main ability has always been free Medicine proficiency. And Soothing Vials is downright broken. Mutagenist's thing is the double Mutagen at level 13 but I agree it's really late.
It lasts 10mins but the resource you spent to poison it comes back in 10mins.
You can keep perpetually 3 things poisoned with VVs precombat basically.
"If you're below your maximum number (of VVs), you can gather reagents from the environment around you. For every 10 minutes you spend in exploration mode, you regain 2 (3 at higher levels) vials; this doesn't prevent you from participating in other exploration activities"
If I'm reading that right you can:
- Keep your VVs at MAX -1, if 7 is MAX then 6 is MAX -1
- At the 9:59 minute mark use 3 VVs for 10 min buffs
- At the 10:00 minute mark regain 3 VVs letting you start combats at 6 VVs with 3 perpetual buffs
Which is a dubious way of interpreting the text but still RAW I think? Also even without this, it just highlights how clunky this strategy is, "Hey DM after this fight, when I regain all my VVs which would be around 20 - 30 mins. I'd like to spend 3 VVs to continuously apply/reapply buffs". After that you enter combat with half your VVs. I don't dislike the strat but I just hope there's a smoother way to do it.
Chirurgeon has a 10min cooldown on its main ability.
Considering that you cant win a combat on healing alone, is this hobbling even nessiary?
I feel like they are just a chassis to bolt medicine feats onto.
Mutagenist take a -2 hit to AC and reflexes to get a +1 bump to accuracy?
And that's the goto for combat?
That seems terrible.
As for Soothing, can multiple of them stack?
1 point of healing on your turn seems underwhelming.
I feel like Alchemist players may have become accustomed to some subpar choices,making even subpar improvements seem excellent.
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All the bestial mutagen AC penalties are gone in PC2.
The numbing tonic is the one you take before soothing. The latter is only later game when you have enough vials, need it, and have combine elixirs feat.
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All the bestial mutagen AC penalties are gone in PC2.
The numbing tonic is the one you take before soothing. The latter is only later game when you have enough vials, need it, and have combine elixirs feat.
2 temporary hit points/one hit point of healing still doesn't seem like much, especially given what they cost in terms of resources, but I've never played with this setup, so maybe I just don't understand how good it is.
Dropping the AC penalties is great, but also a perfect example of how past conditions set up low expectations-how was that ever viable?
Sticking to PC2 alchemist, there are some obvious equity questions.
Why not action compression for every specialty?
Since Quick Bomber is a thing, why not Quick Quaff For mutagines,Injection for elixirs and Infuse for poisons?
Bombers get to pick a elemental weakness on the fly.
Why not let choose between being tougher, more accurate, or harder hitting when they create viles on the fly?
Too complicated?
Fair enough.
Give them Regurgitate Mutagen as bonus feat instead,seems entirely appropriate.
Or how about we just let Mutaginists ignore the downsides of mutagens their level and lower?
This makes them really stand out while keeping the power of mutagens in the setting at large, under control.
This is true of any buff that applies only to a research field, it keeps the crazy stuff in house.
Let Chirochurgeons use all their actions to heal damage, without a cooldown period, or better still,pile up temp HP on their frontliners.
That sounds like a win for teamwork focused game.
I am by no means sure that changes like these wouldn't break something, but with 3 out of the 4 Research Fields being crap when they are using Quick Alchemy to do their specialized vials, I wish they had been more permissive.
As things stand, every research field seems better off throwing bombs than they are doing their own thing.
I am still excited to build characters with this class and the Archetype, because a free daily supply of alchemical items offers a crazy amount of flexibility.
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These updates systematically addressed all the issues I had when playing an alchemist.
Thanks for the link to that youtube video outlining all the changes!
I looked again at Numbing/Soothing Tonic.
20 renewing temp points at 16 level seems kinda ok.
Is fast healing 10 a signifigant amount at 17th level?
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I looked again at Numbing/Soothing Tonic.
20 renewing temp points at 16 level seems kinda ok.
Is fast healing 10 a signifigant amount at 17th level?
Depending on how long the fight goes and how much it heals it could essentially bump you up to being a D10 martial bc of the effective health the enemy is rechewing through. I love fast healing!
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The old Chiurgeon used prep items, not Quick Alchemy (100% before L13, a mix after L13's maxed healing).
Using Draw action circumvention to activate elixirs for 1A was the only way to make the items really viable in combat. While Numbing and Soothing are great if you can administer them for a spare 3rd action, they are NOT worth 2A and the opportunity loss of proper combat contribution.
The shift to VVs means I cannot prepare anywhere close to enough elixirs for the 1A use to be my primary thing.
This means that my HP restored per action got cut in half to due the change to Quick Alchemy + Use as a 2A routine.
And no, you cannot stack tHP nor Fast Healing. Any outside gain of them means that you should not use that elixir. Even a double Combine Elixir would only grant the identical effect twice, making it useless (though pairing Numb + Soothing is very good if the party has neither Fast Healing nor tHP mechanics).
As the new FV use for Chi to heal also has a 10min cooldown and horrid healing values, this new
"upgrade" is outright WORSE than the old Perpetual Infusions Feature. No item selection, no Additives allowed in the FV, only enhancements to the FV are hyper-specific Feats that would be better spent elsewhere.
The locking and removal of old Feats is another pain point, as I can no longer take Calculated Splash. Nor Perpetual Breadth for infinite skunk bombs.
The only way remaining inside the Alchemist class to use VV elixirs for 1 Action is to combo 4 different things together so that the new Quick Bomber is literally a 3:1 action compression so that Double Brew leaves the 2nd created item in my hand. This leaves what would be a 2A activity to only [make] + [use the elixir] into a 2A activity to [make (bomb & elixir) + throw bomb] + [use elixir]
This routine is so restrictive I cannot even use prep bombs with it, I must Q-Alch: Double Brew a bomb.
I'll also need to keep both hands open for the privilege.
I need to remind everyone that alchemical items are intentionally balanced to be worse than other consumables. If I need to use 2A to make + use an Alch item, that's the action economy of casting spells.
2A for that is not viable as a primary combat activity. Paizo knew this, which is why Quick Bomber has become so absurdly permissive.
Yet Paizo completely neglected to consider Alchemists who want to use many alch items that are not bombs. This is why Tox's gameplan has never been able to use poisons in combat, and why Chi's are now simply screwed.
Paizo though of the Chi's healing FV use as such an afterthought compared to the Bomber, that they literally had the healing use the bomb damage values. Everyone knows that healing does not scale the same as player damage values, it's a joke of a feature.
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I can already see that Chi is going to suffer horribly before 6, then abuse the crap out of Combine Elixirs to pseudo-1A their elixirs via combining them, then hit 9 and get Double Brew and be stuck doing that nightmare fusion for the rest of the campaign. The efficiency gain by using the new 3:1 action compression is too good to ignore.
I don't know how other people interpreted the additives interacting with double brew before, but I think it was clear that you can use two or more unique additives per round but you can only use each unique additive once per round. Like, you could make a sticky bomb and a debilitating bomb but not 2 sticky bombs.
Now, 'Additive' reads "You can add only one additive to a single alchemical item, you can add an additive only once per round" and the additive feats got their frequencies removed. Now, we have these action compressions and renewable resource pool but have nothing to do after we use up the additive. Using up VVs to make raw quick alchemy items with no additives just feels like a waste and using quick alchemy > quick vials while you still have VVs just feels sub optimal.
I'd argue that the timer is different between VVs.So, if you used a VV now, you start "regaining up to your maximum" which at that point is regaining 1.
If 7 minutes later you use another 2 VVs, it's only at that point where you start regaining those.
When the difference is a few seconds in between 10min recharge (the VVs used in a combat), it can easily handwaved, but when its 50%+ of the total recharge time, I don't see anyone allowing this.
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I don't find anything clunky about "I have a pool of 7 VVs, I use 2 of those to be permanently under my mutagen and X, so I have 5 remaining when combat starts".
I guess if the DM properly paces the combats i.e. "Players are at full HP at start of combat" then it doesn't really matter since you'll likely be at full VVs at that point and just reduce the amount of VVs by the number of ongoing buffs.
Just for the few Alchemists that are going to try to make this work:
The one item group that benefits most from this seismic shift are the Lozenges.
They have extra action tax to prime their major function, some benefit to keeping them mouthed/primed, once per combat uses by biting them, and previously were crippled by prep items not scaling their DC.
It will still cut your VV limit to carry one in the mouth, but give the list another read-through. Main winner is the once-per-day electric stunner. The other once-per-day Reaction RK reroll on fail is also worth using.
And I think all Non-Muta Alchs will / should abuse the Spit Mutagen Feat until/unless is gets changed.
Make/buy L1 Drakehearts/whatever to pop it at initiative for a bump there, then Spit it out for a 1A save-or-sick level scaling damage.
If you would otherwise ignore the Collar and have the Bulk to spare, no reason to leave that on the table.
I don't know how other people interpreted the additives interacting with double brew before, but I think it was clear
That was never really clear. Most table were permissive because the Alchemist was rather weak but it was unclear if you could use 2 additives with Double Brew because of the limitation of 1 free action/reaction per trigger.
The alchemical familiar feat forces the construct trait on it, which destroys it at 0 HP. Get a friendly GM or an ancestor feat (if these abilities are available to all familiar types).
The alchemical familiar feat forces the construct trait on it, which destroys it at 0 HP. Get a friendly GM or an ancestor feat (if these abilities are available to all familiar types).
Also makes the familiar immune to your alchemical healing elixirs.
I really, really, did not expect Paizo to do so such an anti-fun nerf to the Alchemist's familiar like that. All they had to do was make the construct trait optional. It already does not make sense for the Homunculus to be a construct as written. It's a living creature of flesh, blood, and even soul. It's just not born from a parent, and is instead created. That does not fit the trait.
We already had to get a Dedication to get Enhanced familiar, this just makes it that much more likely people will skip the Alch's Feat entirely.
I wonder,could you trade the Alchemical Familiar for a 3 ability Specific Familiar, since you get a total of 3 abilities if you include the Construct trait.
The Poisoner Familiar Ability sounds interesting.
How many doses of poison can it hold?
Can it add poison to ammunition or just blades?
Does it include a Move Action like "Item Delivery"?
Can Item Delivery work with Independent?
Btw, half of the worries I had about Action Efficiency are mitigated by the new familiar ability "item delivery"
with a command (so 1 action): the familiar takes an item you are holding, use a move action to get to a target, and then gives the item to the target OR administers the item.
the poison familiar ability also helps, but not as impressive: doesn't require command, is just a single interact, so it can be done with Independent, and basically applies an injury poison you had prefilled it with to an ally's blade (I guess here a familiar's ally, so that would include you, but the wording may imply that for some reason the familiar can only poison your ally's weapons and not yours, not sure about that)
that said, here we go again having a familiar being kinda mandatory if you're not a bomber as a negative, but at least action efficiency is now very good.
Lol.
Dude, that's still 2 Actions, and what happens after you use it?
Your familiar is in another square.
And if that ability requires Manual Dex, that's your 2 familiar ability slots gone. Meaning you will have to Command the familiar to move them back! It's not even possible to be an action save without Independent, which means Dedication time.
Moreover, I've had all my GMs thus far want to ignore involving the familiar in combat, and so the helpful little guys just sit on my PC the whole time. But as soon as the familiar is moving across the battlefield, they get a token, and start being a target.