Oh. I thought that split came from Pathfinder, not D&D.Aren't D&D lamias lion-bodied?Both, basic Lamia (kitty) and then Lamia Matriarch (snek).
Nope, although the snek ones were called Lamia Nobles in DnD
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So... "Lamia" as a snake-woman is a thing that's been around for a while. Like, John Keats published a poem titled Lamia in 1820 where the titular woman had been trapped in the form of a serpent and was granted human form by the god Apollo. There was a painting in 1890 (not entirely safe for work) inspired by that poem that represents her in a form that was very close to "human upper half, snake lower body"... and that's before we get to all of the various vague mythical references from much earlier.
Pretty sure that WotC has no claim on this one.
Ah, yeah Tsuchi-ko is (probably) a serpentfolk.
Technically, Tsuchi-ko's species isn't identified in #1-16, but she's described as a "cobra-headed girl" - and elsewhere in that scenario other "cobra-headed girls" are identified as nagaji.
The catch is that in #1-16, Tsuchi-ko is cloaked in cutting edge glamor projector-style tech, so her actual species is unknown.
In scenario #5-08, however, Tsuchi-ko appears again. Her appearance hasn't changed, and there's no mention of the glamor tech, so either she's maintaining the same persona four years later or she actually is a cobra-headed woman, suggesting that she is actually a nagaji after all.
(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)
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I'm looking forward to formians in PF2E's system of feat selection. It goes well with a biological caste system like colony insect aliens would have.
Hopefully they don't wind up a victim of the OGL/remaster change.
with pf2 having androids and automatons which will fit sf2 well.
I can see a lot of possibilities
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I'm looking forward to formians in PF2E's system of feat selection. It goes well with a biological caste system like colony insect aliens would have.
Hopefully they don't wind up a victim of the OGL/remaster change.
with pf2 having androids and automatons which will fit sf2 well.
I can see a lot of possibilities
It should be really interesting playing a Pathfinder 2e androids and automatons in Starinfder 2e having to deal with a huge amount of generational culture shock and new tech and having lost memory through the gap could make them even more secretive and suspicious of others. I could see some wearing masks, trying to pass themselves off as Elves to hide their identity.
(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)
Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
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(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
Impossible Lands added that less than a year ago. It's a very strange change to the ancestry that takes away from the uniqueness of other ancestries.
Impossible Lands added that less than a year ago. It's a very strange change to the ancestry that takes away from the uniqueness of other ancestries.(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
What another Ancestries let you do that?
Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
That's an interesting change from PF1 lore. Considering the publication dates, it turns out that Tsuchi-ko was a trendsetter!
Behold the wonders of lego genetics.
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What another Ancestries let you do that?Impossible Lands added that less than a year ago. It's a very strange change to the ancestry that takes away from the uniqueness of other ancestries.(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
Nagagi were obvious scales with human body plan.
Serpentfolk were obvious scales, snake heads, and human shape PLUS typically serpent tails.Lamia Matriarch and Ramiyel were human upper with snake scale replacing legs.
Naga were human heads on snakes.
Vishkanya were subtle scales and forked tongue but otherwise human.
I guess impossible lands just decided Nagagi could be everything.
But I also like the story on the Ramiyel, though honestly not their stats. So I'd like to see them more in starfinder.
This snakey topic has slithered into a rather lengthy diversion though, we should probably let the thread get back to other ancestries.
What another Ancestries let you do that?Impossible Lands added that less than a year ago. It's a very strange change to the ancestry that takes away from the uniqueness of other ancestries.(All of this further suggests that nagaji physiology changed somewhat during the Gap. Far from impossible for a species that originated in a genetic engineering program.)Eh? There are cobra-headed nagaji out there.
Some nagaji are snake below the waist
Some nagaji are snake above the neck.
That's just how they are.
Nagagi were obvious scales with human body plan.
Serpentfolk were obvious scales, snake heads, and human shape PLUS typically serpent tails.
Lamia Matriarch and Ramiyel were human upper with snake scale replacing legs.
Naga were human heads on snakes.
Vishkanya were subtle scales and forked tongue but otherwise human.I guess impossible lands just decided Nagagi could be everything.
But I also like the story on the Ramiyel, though honestly not their stats. So I'd like to see them more in starfinder.
This snakey topic has slithered into a rather lengthy diversion though, we should probably let the thread get back to other ancestries.
Lamia and Serpentfolk were never playable, though I had forgotten about Vishkanya.
With Howl of the Wild coming out for PF, let's speculate if we'll get a generic uplifted animal ancestry for SF2, or if it'll be just bears again?
Well, you'll have generic uplifted animal ancestry for PF2, and it's easily poachable.
The question is whether "uplifted animal" has something in particular to offer SF2. I think it does... sort of. In particular, though, I'd want the SF2 version to be the result of strange biotech experiments, and thus highly flexible, in the manner of an SRO. Like, PF2 uplifted animals are basically "Start with a random animal. Give them thought, speech, the ability to walk on two legs, and dextrous hands. Let them figure otu the rest." The Starfinder version should be "some deranged biologist did a whoel bunch of very strange thigns to your ancestors, and you get to be the result. Who even knows what presents they left in there? Have fun finding out."
Possibly ancestry feats that also take up augmentation slots? Or some way to fit multiple augmentations into the same slot? That could be interesting.
Let's not poach the uplifted animals, pls?
"The Most Dangerous Game, Reloaded In SPACE!"
Adjacent to SROs and very close to Androids, LANCER's NHPs really make me want to experience what an ancestry of fully sentient super "AIs" would look like, who voluntarily decided to limit themselves to better understand and exist together with "normal" people. Bonus points if they are descended from an eldritch math god who presumably exists because he said so.
This concept wouldn't need to be a full ancestry, more like a variant on either SRO's or Androids who use the same mechanics, just with their own lore and maybe a handful of unique feats.
By the way, does SF have a species that fills the "panther analogue" space that (thankfully) a lot of scifi universes seem to have? Like the thanator from Avatar or the rippers from the Koban series? The four-legged variety, not the anthropomorphized one like the panthera.
I don't know why, but I suddenly have the urge to play a six-legged space panther and fully explore what technology/magic could do for a sentient species that doesn't really have hands.
I suppose awakened animals would work alright, but their story doesn't really interest me...
The Tromlin Hardshell is a dinosaur/rhino like quadruped (no hands mode) that can also stand and cut its speed in half to hold stuff. The book that introduced it also included an awfully implemented and totally unbalanced armor upgrade that allows a weapon to be cheaply mounted to avoid the no hands problem.
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I seem to recall them saying that there's a species coming out in Enhanced that doesn't have useful hands, per se, and used magic, or friendship, or something to interact with its environment? IIRC it was more like a cute fuzzy flying squirrel type deal, though, so less on the "fearsome panther" side of things.
Of course, as Xenocrat pointed out, there's the tromlins, but contemplatives, raxilites, and stelliferas play around in the "using magic/tech to get by without human-style hands" design space, too.
Then let's hope this time around things are a little more balanced ^^. Hardpoints and mechanical manipulators are definitely some of the primary solutions I had in mind. I'm imagining the panther thingy with a sort of harness that has two (combinable) weapon hardpoints over the shoulders and cybernetic limbs that can handle basic manipulation tasks but can't handle stuff like weapons (for now).
Items being basically buyable equivalents of feats is already an established idea and arms are going to be a big thing. So it shouldn't be too hard to have an artificial limb system where the entry level (going up to the "normal" level of hands) is essentially free and things escalate in cost and level from there.
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The armor upgrade that holds a weapon is fine if it's ONLY for a species that has no hands - you're paying (small amounts of) money and sacrificing a (valuable) armor upgrade slot to have basic functionality.
It's hugely overpowered for anyone else, as it totally negates several much more expensive or more limited options that already did the same thing.
That original issue just seems like poor design/balancing, rather than a fundamentally bad idea.
A more elegant solution would be to just scale the restrictions depending on how many "limbs" you would have as a result, not disconnecting the options from each other entirely. They accomplish mostly the same result, after all.
For example, if you go from 2 limbs to 4, you have price range and need to be a certain level. Within that range, armor hardpoints could be slightly cheaper as you can only use weapons with them and they take up an armor upgrade slot. "Normal" additional limbs would maybe instead take up an investment slot (hardpoints wouldn't as your armor in its entirety already does).
That wouldn't put up restrictions that are obviously only there for balance, so it would be more immersive.