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With PaizoCon is two weeks away and Gencon coming up fast, I thought it'd be fun to start speculating on the next few books coming out.
We know for sure that Tian Xia Lost Omens books are in the works, and Howl of the Wild (which my brain has dubbed "Where the Wild Things Are") was just announced this morning. With those in the pipeline, what else would you like to see?
For myself, the unscratched itches are:
Bestiary Book: Spirits Lost and Found - All about various kinds of spirits, though by preference leaning heavily on Divine. In general some advice on handling incorporeality at the table. Possibly also including an ancestry that goes at least partially incorporeal some of the time from level 1. I'd also love if both Mediums and Shaman showed up in this. Mediums to be the more martial, body focused class (makes heavy use of the multiclass archetype feats to allow "channeling" ghosts and other spirits so that you can borrow their abilities, probably also picking up Synthecist summoning along the way), and Shaman as an innately flexible caster than can choose to lock themselves out of their spellslots to pick up focus spells and passive abilities (including a mechanic that resembles Unstable letting you cast a focus spell without focus).
General Options: Building Trust - A somewhat more GM focused book that expands on Honor, Social Encounters, Research, and other exploration subsystems that pertain to social/mental skills. Featuring the Auspex class, a divine offensive martial that are even more focussed than clerics or champions, as they push the agenda of a specific domain. As they are in a book using skill systems, they ideally interact pretty well with skills themselves, including sharing skill feats related to their chosen domain with their party.
Campaign Theming: Into the Darklands - Not going to lie, at least 2/3rds of my interest in such a title would be getting a Solarian knock-off into PF2. But given what JJ has mentioned about the need to address LOTS of stuff in the darklands, I can see this getting moved to the top of the list. Ancestries, new character options, expansions on the rules coming out of the Highhelm AP, anything you'd need to have an entire campaign underground, this would be your sourcebook.
Lost Omens (not getting as deep into these, as I'm kind of tired):
Big Setting - Arcadia. 'Nuff said.
Rogues Gallery - Masters of Styles - ton of masters of combat styles from across Golarian, who will teach characters techniques (or use them against your characters)
Character Options - Prophecy/Harrow - Much of the harrow has already been put into PF2, but I wouldn't mind still more expansion on that topic, especially if it is part of a larger book about prophetic techniques and how broken prophecy has further affected diviners
Faction - Hellknights - Ideally tying into an organization book proposed above, but something updating Hell Knight lore to current PF2 design principles would be welcome, including new Hellknight factions.
I gotta put money on inquisitor and a spiritual book of some kind. I now it's very vague, but to me secrets of magic was more arcane in nature, dark archive more occult, and rage of elements more primal. We're due for some divine goodness. I know we got a couple already in gods and magic and book of the dead, but God and magic was lost omens and book of the dead had no classes.
I'd be lying if I said the main reason isn't because I want inquisitor to come out for a good friend of mine though.
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Getting Centaurs and Minotaurs in Howl of the Wild means there likely isn’t a Lost Omens: Casmaron for them to be in on the docket, but we know Paizo likes synergistic releases, so they might act as a good hint in the way that Nagaji in LO:IL teased Tian Xia.
What reason might Paizo have to give us Ancestries found in Iblydos, land of the hero-gods?
…perhaps something Mythic?
Rage of Elements is about to take us to the playgrounds of the Elemental Lords. Stories of ‘cultivation’ and mortals rising to godlike power are a staple of the mythologies that inspire Tian Xia. Arcadia, high in demand from fans and the new Creative Director of Rules both, had hero-gods of its own in the past and may well again.
I honestly feel like Arcadia + Divine book with Shaman and Vudra + Mythic rulebook are both happening at some point, I’m just not sure which comes first.
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I'm pretty sure that there's going to be classes of some sort in at least one of the books, and it sounds like Howl of the Wild isn't it.
I feel like Vudra/Casmaron needs both Mythic and Aberrants, and they pretty much have to be two different books. So I'm thinking that it's not going to be the next big Lost Omens book, but we're definitely moving in on it. Like... I could totally see the GenCon release being the Spirits book with Shamans and possibly Mediums (which I still want to see as a non-martial wave caster) and then hitting the Saga Lands for the next big Lost Omens book, then cycle back around for Mythic and Aberrants next year, and have Vudra following *that*.
Howl gets us a few different things, after all. Like, yeah, it puts some bricks in for Casmaron with the ancestries, but it also gives us a lot of beef to work with beast-themed archetypes and whatnot. I suspect we'll know more about what they're targeting with it once we find out a few more ancestries and a few of what the archetypes are. If we get a non-AP treatment of Mammoth Lord, for example....
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I don't know if we're going to get a "divine book" or a "primal book" or something specifically about a magical tradition, we're more likely to get a book specifically about something that is generally within the purview of the tradition.
Like we're getting an Elements book (which is primal or arcane by magical tradition). So if we're getting the Shaman as the next class (which is my bet) I figure it will be something like a "Spirits" book (which would be divine and occult).
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Rogues Gallery - Masters of Styles - ton of masters of combat styles from across Golarian, who will teach characters techniques (or use them against your characters)
Faction - Hellknights - Ideally tying into an organization book proposed above, but something updating Hell Knight lore to current PF2 design principles would be welcome, including new Hellknight factions.
Actually, in light of 2024 starting with the Tian Xia World Guide and Character guide (taking up the Setting and Option LO slots), I'd like to modify my guesses.
Rogue's Gallery - Legends 2 - Gimme another set of Legends, with at least 60% of them from Tian Xia, and another 20% from other continents we've only lightly touched on like Casmoran and Arcadia. I definitely want to see entries on all of the narrators for books released so far, including Baranthet, Purepurin, and Valashinaz.
Factions - Honor of the Houses - Something structured a bit like Pathfinder Society guide, with a bunch of factions large and small within Tian Xia, specifically to include TX outposts of existing factions. Latern House can be pretty brief, but what are the Hellknights and Magaambya getting up to in TX?
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What if the rulebook is a traveling pilgrim and scholar's accounts of spiritual traditions across Golarion? They might even be a Shaman themself, heeding the call of the spirits pulling them towards the horizon and full of a curiosity about how others understand the world. A native of northern Tian Xia may well be interested not only in that continent's varied religious beliefs, but also be capable of traveling to Path of Aganhei to document the Inner Sea as well.
This would have a Shaman class, a bunch of not-quite-class-sized options to scratch the Inquisitorial itch, a few other Divine toys and tidbits.
If I'm going really crazy, this complements both a Lost Omens: Saga Lands that could fit with both the big nostalgic push at AP #200 and the all-but-inevitable Hellknights faction book. This throws a bone to fans of the more familiar bits of the Golarion setting and gives Paizo a year off from the big lift of fleshing out 2e Tian Xia, buying them some time to really throw their all into Arcadia.
EDIT: The narrator of this book isn't Tian, they're mixed Mahwek-Ulfen, having crossed the sea to witness the distant homeland of their mother!
If I'm going really crazy, this complements both a Lost Omens: Saga Lands that could fit with both the big nostalgic push at AP #200 and the all-but-inevitable Hellknights faction book. This throws a bone to fans of the more familiar bits of the Golarion setting and gives Paizo a year off from the big lift of fleshing out 2e Tian Xia, buying them some time to really throw their all into Arcadia.
Is a Hellknights book inevitable? They are popular, but they already had a lot of support in 1e and were very much Wes' thing before he left Paizo. Nothing stops someone else from picking up that torch, but the (admittedly uninformed) impression I've got is that new writers want to explore new aspects of the setting.
If I'm going really crazy, this complements both a Lost Omens: Saga Lands that could fit with both the big nostalgic push at AP #200 and the all-but-inevitable Hellknights faction book. This throws a bone to fans of the more familiar bits of the Golarion setting and gives Paizo a year off from the big lift of fleshing out 2e Tian Xia, buying them some time to really throw their all into Arcadia.Is a Hellknights book inevitable? They are popular, but they already had a lot of support in 1e and were very much Wes' thing before he left Paizo. Nothing stops someone else from picking up that torch, but the (admittedly uninformed) impression I've got is that new writers want to explore new aspects of the setting.
I mean, Paizo has explored the other 4 major Inner Sea factions thoroughly (three via Lost Omens books, and 1 via an entire 1-20 adventure path). It'd be pretty odd to not touch the last one in some kind of manner, whether it be another Lost Omens book, or another extensive adventure.
If I'm going really crazy, this complements both a Lost Omens: Saga Lands that could fit with both the big nostalgic push at AP #200 and the all-but-inevitable Hellknights faction book. This throws a bone to fans of the more familiar bits of the Golarion setting and gives Paizo a year off from the big lift of fleshing out 2e Tian Xia, buying them some time to really throw their all into Arcadia.Is a Hellknights book inevitable? They are popular, but they already had a lot of support in 1e and were very much Wes' thing before he left Paizo. Nothing stops someone else from picking up that torch, but the (admittedly uninformed) impression I've got is that new writers want to explore new aspects of the setting.
Lost Omens Character Guide detailed five factions, three of whom got Lost Omens books and one of which got a 6-book AP, at a rate of about one per year - so yeah, I feel pretty good about them rounding out that set.
The thing with the Hellknights is that they're borderline to outright villainous, with the sole exception of the genuinely good Order of the Torrent. That's a bit of a hard sell. I'm not saying they can't pull it off, but it will be tricky. I'd not be opposed to an AP where we're Torrent Hellknights that have to interact with other Orders.
I'm confident that next summer's release will either be Mythic or a slew of new classes. 2024 is when the next D&D edition makes its debut. Response to that might be... more muted than initially expected, but there was no way that could have been predicted when the GenCon book was planned. The point is: they need something big and sexy, and I can only think of two things that fit that bill.
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The thing with the Hellknights is that they're borderline to outright villainous, with the sole exception of the genuinely good Order of the Torrent. That's a bit of a hard sell. I'm not saying they can't pull it off, but it will be tricky. I'd not be opposed to an AP where we're Torrent Hellknights that have to interact with other Orders.
2e has done a lot of work to scaffold a growing rift in the Hellknights between thse truly loyal to the Measure and those who are just Thrune sycophants. There's plenty of room for stories with protagonists who would've been Lawful Neutral under the old Alignment framework.
I trust any Lost Omens book about them to reckon with the messiness that comes with the Hellknights' big tent. A Scourge detective working to find evidence against Thrune II, a Godclaw crusader fighting against demonic remnants in the Sarkoris Scar, a Pyre fanatic burning 'forbidden' scripture for the Chelish government, and a Torrent anti-slavery privateer are all wildly different characters, each with a credible claim to the title of Hellknight, and that's something I expect the writers to lean into.
Now, all that said... Blood Lords was six books of being pro-state agents of an oppressive necromantic regime, complete with enhanced player options centered around being a flesh-eating Ghoul. We've had the three Evil subclasses for Champions for ages now. Paizo's clearly not too skittish about PCs who aren't perfect, and the Hellknights are an iconic Golarion staple; they're all but certain to get a book, IMO.
I also want to throw myself behind Hellknights getting a book mostly to see the status of the lesser known Hellknight Orders. The Order of the Pike in Starfinder is one of the core orders if I remember correctly and with a pretty blank motivation as "Kill Monsters" Im surprised we haven't seen more of them kicking around in pathfinder.
I would also like to see what the Torrent has been up to since Hell's Rebels. Last we heard their numbers were dwindling. I wonder if the success of the revolution has changed that.
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Considering they just announced a big ol' nature book, and that the shifter isn't in it, I seriously doubt they'll be the next class.
But I really wish they were. I felt like they got a real raw deal in 1E, coming out so close to PF2, so they never got a lot of support from other books. Plus they felt like too weak of a martial option to realistically consider.
But a character who shapeshifts as their primary deal is a super cool fantasy that I feel isn't well represented in either DND or PF2.
Heck, the Druid character in the new film did basically nothing but shapeshifting and they were awesome!
I want to DO that. I don't care about a full spell list. Shapeshifting is a versatile enough tool to eschew spells (I think), and with the relatively well understood math in PF2, I think this system is primed for a martial shapeshifter.
I know it's not coming soon. But I want it so bad.
The thing with the Hellknights is that they're borderline to outright villainous, with the sole exception of the genuinely good Order of the Torrent. That's a bit of a hard sell. I'm not saying they can't pull it off, but it will be tricky. I'd not be opposed to an AP where we're Torrent Hellknights that have to interact with other Orders.
With alignment going away, it might be easier to use more morally gray factions.
My bet is either Shaman (fits well thematically with Season of Ghosts) or Shifter (Class with most unique fantasy that's hardest to replicate with existing set of options).
But seeing as how one of the teasers for the next book said classes, my bet is both.
Both would be good. Fingers crossed.
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My bet is either Shaman (fits well thematically with Season of Ghosts) or Shifter (Class with most unique fantasy that's hardest to replicate with existing set of options).
But seeing as how one of the teasers for the next book said classes, my bet is both.
What book?
And would you be willing to point me in the direction of said teasers please? <3
I think he’s talking in general.
Every PF2 class, and in fact the majority of PF1 classes, had playtests. The few PF1 outliers confirmed the general wisdom that the kind of “but is this ACTUALLY fun?” feedback that you can only really get with a playtest is worth the time and expense.
Aaron Shanks's post in this thread specifies Gencon playtest releases.My bet is either Shaman (fits well thematically with Season of Ghosts) or Shifter (Class with most unique fantasy that's hardest to replicate with existing set of options).
But seeing as how one of the teasers for the next book said classes, my bet is both.
What book?
And would you be willing to point me in the direction of said teasers please? <3
As in “the releases that happen at Gen Con every year,” as they have for years.
The Kineticist marked a shift to only one new class per year in PF2, I believe? I’d be stunned if two came in 2024 after some comments they’ve made.
My bet is either Shaman (fits well thematically with Season of Ghosts) or Shifter (Class with most unique fantasy that's hardest to replicate with existing set of options).
But seeing as how one of the teasers for the next book said classes, my bet is both.
Would Shaman come out in time for Season of Ghosts?
I believe part of kineticist being the singular class release also had to do with just how much space it was going to take up with all of its moving parts, but yeah. IIRC they've talked about moving to a one class a year playtest, maybe two if time permits.
I'd agree. I thought I remember hearing that the Kineticist is one of the most complicated classes for PF2 so far.
Not that I have a problem with only one class per year. A slow trickle of classes allows better quality control.
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24 pages for the kineticist vs 28 for the Gunslinger and inventor.
Edit: and Magus/Summoner clocked in at 26, Psychic/Thaumaturge at 30. APG playest with 4 classes was only 45 pages as well.
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Would Shaman come out in time for Season of Ghosts?My bet is either Shaman (fits well thematically with Season of Ghosts) or Shifter (Class with most unique fantasy that's hardest to replicate with existing set of options).
But seeing as how one of the teasers for the next book said classes, my bet is both.
Judging the time from play test to release for a class, there is almost no chance of a class whose play test is not yet announced arriving in time for an upcoming AP already scheduled. On the other hand, the playtest itself may well be available in that same time frame! ... Whichever playtest it ultimately is