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After saw many topics about different things that many people wanted to change in the game I have the idea to make a pool (using Google Forms) with changes do you want to see in the PF2. But I first need the questions.
So want do you think that need to be changed or even added/removed in PF2? Please try to make your suggestion simples and generic without too much specific detail and please without asking for clarifications these usually are addressed to FAQ. I will exemplify with my own desires:
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Thanks!
I’m pretty much on board with every bullet point. I would add either better accuracy with cantrips or higher base damage except for EA.
Champions being rebuilt to accommodate non-deific faiths (animists, ancestor worshipers, etc.)
I’m pretty much on board with every bullet point. I would add either better accuracy with cantrips or higher base damage except for EA.
OK added.
Champions being rebuilt to accommodate non-deific faiths (animists, ancestor worshipers, etc.)
Added too.
A lot of these seem like overkill, especially more slots per level. Casters really only suffer from resource drain at low levels, and improvements to focus spells could solve that issue without mucking with the balance of higher levels.
Investigator's problems run a bit deeper than DaS forcing you to keep the role. It's too tied up in the kludge surrounding the lead mechanic and it has very few ways to toy with DaS compared to other class mechanics. Archetyping feels mandatory with it because the class also has so few feats that do things other than make it's lead mechanic less awkward.
OK, any suggestions in a few lines to resolve this for me to add the poll?
OK, any suggestions in a few lines to resolve this for me to add the poll?
More spell slot at low level?
Casters have enought slot at mid/high level (and can buy wands or scepter to add even more), but at low level, they are starved, especially those with only 3 slot per level, and *especially* if they chose to pick a focus spell that isn't great in every encounter.
Having them start with more slot, and then "stabilize" at 3/level later would help low level caster without buffing high level ones. Something like starting with 6 level 1 slot at level 1, going up to 7 at level 2, and then "draining" those slot upward (so having 5 level 1/ 2 level 2 on level 3, 4/3 on level 4, to finally reach the current 3/3/2 on level 5) would work. The only downside would be that the "slot per level" chart would look less neat, but given how "feel bad" spellcasters are at low level, especially for new players, who care.
OK, any suggestions in a few lines to resolve this for me to add the poll?A lot of these seem like overkill, especially more slots per level. Casters really only suffer from resource drain at low levels, and improvements to focus spells could solve that issue without mucking with the balance of higher levels.
Investigator's problems run a bit deeper than DaS forcing you to keep the role. It's too tied up in the kludge surrounding the lead mechanic and it has very few ways to toy with DaS compared to other class mechanics. Archetyping feels mandatory with it because the class also has so few feats that do things other than make it's lead mechanic less awkward.
Give the Investigator more ways to use DaS and make it more usable against non-leads. Like, it's always a free action to use by default, but you can reroll it against targets relevant to your lead with an action.
As for more ways to use DaS, you could spend the DaS roll on maneuvers, you could spend low rolls to activate unique abilities, you could have several mutually exclusive rider effects attached to DaS (choose between DaS + RK, DaS + Stride, DaS + Demoralize, etc.), etc.
The most important part is to make DaS involve more interesting decision-making rather than a binary "Can I hit this turn or can I not?"
OK, added to the poll as "More ways to use Devise a Stratagem (DaS + RK, DaS + Stride, DaS + Demoralize, etc.)"
Wait DaS + Stride? How is that?
OK, any suggestions in a few lines to resolve this for me to add the poll?More spell slot at low level?
Casters have enought slot at mid/high level (and can buy wands or scepter to add even more), but at low level, they are starved, especially those with only 3 slot per level, and *especially* if they chose to pick a focus spell that isn't great in every encounter.
Having them start with more slot, and then "stabilize" at 3/level later would help low level caster without buffing high level ones. Something like starting with 6 level 1 slot at level 1, going up to 7 at level 2, and then "draining" those slot upward (so having 5 level 1/ 2 level 2 on level 3, 4/3 on level 4, to finally reach the current 3/3/2 on level 5) would work. The only downside would be that the "slot per level" chart would look less neat, but given how "feel bad" spellcasters are at low level, especially for new players, who care.
How about decrescent SpellSlots?
Like:
LvL 9 - 3
LvL 8 - 3
LvL 7 - 4
LvL 6 - 4
LvL 5 - 5
LvL 4 - 5
LvL 3 - 6
LvL 2 - 6
LvL 1 - 7
This way I can put easily into the poll as option.
How about decrescent SpellSlots?
Like:
LvL 9 - 3
LvL 8 - 3
LvL 7 - 4
LvL 6 - 4
LvL 5 - 5
LvL 4 - 5
LvL 3 - 6
LvL 2 - 6
LvL 1 - 7This way I can put easily into the poll as option.
This work too. The spells "draining upward" idea was here only to make it so spellcasters at latter levels are exactly equivalent to how they are now (because I was warry of starting yet another "should caster be buffed" thread war), but I don't think that a few more low level slots would unbalance casters at any level, given how many spell need to be cast at the highest slot possible to be effective.
Don't care what changes, I trust Paizo to handle it.
I will put none of above in the poll too :P
Anyway. I don't expect anything from this poll it's just for fun and to know the opinion of the people.
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Added rework MC archetype dedications (like balance stats requirements and give more useful effects for dedications like Fighter Dedication) to the poll.
Are you going to make this a google poll or something?
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Yes, I will use a Google form. But I'm giving you some time to add more suggestions. I'll wait until Monday to give the most active users enough time to make suggestions.
General proficiency feats get better at higher levels so they stay relevant to high level characters.
That is my #1.
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Lore skill from backgrounds auto scaling like the Additional Lore feat.
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Canny Acumen should just increase the proficiency rank one step with a cap of master instead of waiting until level 17.
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Probably the least important change suggested here but
It'd be cool if Deadly and Fatal scaled more logically.
Like looking at a Greatpick and a Scythe: the pick's fatal trait is almost twice as good as the deadly trait at level 4, but actually contributes less overall damage than deadly at level 20.
Deadly gaining an extra die per striking rune (except the first one?) while Fatal gets you double dice at level 1 but then never adds more die than that makes their relational scaling really awkward.
Not the only example of weirdly asymmetrical scaling in PF2 but it's one that's stood out to me.
Backstabber is also weird in how poorly it scales, for another example.
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Reload weapons shouldn't be objectively worse than bows, needing an entire class to try (and largely fail) to be relevant.
Reload weapons shouldn't be objectively worse than bows, needing an entire class to try (and largely fail) to be relevant.
It kills me how unwieldy a Gun Magus is.
OK added your suggestions and some suggestions that I take from other threads.
From Red Griffyn post into "Potential Changes to Core 2 Classes":
From PlantThings into "Potential Changes to Core 2 Classes":
General proficiency feats get better at higher levels so they stay relevant to high level characters.
That is my #1.
Lore skill from backgrounds auto scaling like the Additional Lore feat.
Canny Acumen should just increase the proficiency rank one step with a cap of master instead of waiting until level 17.
- To make the swashbuckler work slightly better, I think panache should be a pool rather than a yes/no.
This would allow the swashbuckler to better manage actions between rounds, and also make a good use of both precise strikes, vivacious speed ( the classic example is the swashbuckler using tumble through but without their movement speed because they still don't have panache) and bravado.
- I'd also try a non arcane magus variant.
War priest is excellent the way it is ( a nearly unkillable tank that provides support because of healings and spells ), but a divine magus could be a nice alternative for those who would like to play a more martial divine spellcasters.
Maybe they could just choose cantrips from any tradition, to make things fair for both occult and divine ones.
- effortless concentration available to divine spellcasters, psychics and magus ( is it magus for plural? ) .
- lower the battle oracle stupified condition to 1. And entirely revise some lvl 3 major curses ( time curse is a joke, as well as lore curse).
Reload weapons shouldn't be objectively worse than bows, needing an entire class to try (and largely fail) to be relevant.
Lore skill from backgrounds auto scaling like the Additional Lore feat.
I wish all lore auto scaled to be honest
Would love to have my warpriest of Apsu have legendary knowledge in dragons without sacrificing other skills that makes sense for her like athletics and religion
My wishes
-Update prestidigitation to allow for things like sparkles or illusionary rain in a 5x5 space while my bard sings a sad song or glowing eyes.
-Witch buff without making cackle a core class feature, or at least changing the name
-new dragon gods, both good and evil, for our characters to follow.
-Less region locked feats. It doesn’t make sense that only people from a specific region can get magical tattoos, especially when trade and cultural exchanges exist.
-make kobold, orcs, hobgoblins and lizardfolk common ancestries.
-Make it to where anyone except extra planer beings can take holy/unholy damage.
You can do that. You just take: Additional Lore: Dragons as a skill feat. It won't compromise your other skill increases.
Sure but if I’m not taking lore as part of starter skills that’s one level where my character doesn’t know anything about dragons despite following one
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I think it'd be nice, in terms of the auto-scaling lore, that you can CHOOSE to auto-scale if you want. There are some characters I'd play who started off as a farmer, or as a miner, but then they'd go on to become a legendary adventurer. And all of that adventuring experience... wouldn't translate at all into being better at being a farmer, or being better at being a miner.
So I think getting the choice of auto-scaling would be a good compromise between those with background Lore skills that would get better over an adventurer's lifetime, and those Lore skills that simply wouldn't.
I once saw someone who wrote that Lore skills should be along with languages and that the character should have global progression for them and languages similarly to Perception.
Something like, "Lore and Languages skill" and then you would choose how much you wanted to train them.
The idea was both to allow greater viability in progressing the Lores, and to move Create/Identify Forgery from society there. Or even merge the 3 into a single skill to also make Society a more attractive skill.
For me Lore could compete with languages and if added with the intelligence bonus and instead of working as a standalone skill add circumstance bonus to another related skill. (for example Lore in Undead would give bonuses to checks for other skills that are used in relation to undead, like religion for example).
I once saw someone who wrote that Lore skills should be along with languages and that the character should have global progression for them and languages similarly to Perception.
Something like, "Lore and Languages skill" and then you would choose how much you wanted to train them.
The idea was both to allow greater viability in progressing the Lores, and to move Create/Identify Forgery from society there. Or even merge the 3 into a single skill to also make Society a more attractive skill.
For me Lore could compete with languages and if added with the intelligence bonus and instead of working as a standalone skill add circumstance bonus to another related skill. (for example Lore in Undead would give bonuses to checks for other skills that are used in relation to undead, like religion for example).
But… what if our character has 10 int?
Then with your proposal, my 10 int having warpriest of Apsu can’t gain lore in dragons at level 1
But… what if our character has 10 int?
A character always will have it's own Background lore and common + racial language as is today.
The ideia to gain lore with int bonus is to avoid the currently competition with normal skills where the skills always are way more interesting and vast than a lore.
Anyway due the differences into suggestions I will try to add the lore as a selector instead a combobox.
But… what if our character has 10 int?A character always will have it's own Background lore and common + racial language as is today.
The ideia to gain lore with int bonus is to avoid the currently competition with normal skills where the skills always are way more interesting and vast than a lore.
Anyway due the differences into suggestions I will try to add the lore as a selector instead a combobox.
But background lore doesn’t cover everything. I don’t see a background that gives dragon lore, and even if it does it might not fit my warpriest
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Maybe if we could have a customizable background when we choose any lore, a skill, and any two stat boosts, and then a generic feat?
Contributor
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The only PFS-legal background that gives dragon lore likely wouldn't fit your Priest of Apsu. Hermea is all about dragon's experiment in perfecting humans.
I faced a similar issue with Zot, but then I decided that Additional Lore would work better to gain that scaling proficiency. But after playing Zot, I decided it would be funnier if she didn't have draconic lore.
Can you afford Arcana on your Priest? That way you'll know something of dragons before second level when you pickup Additional Lore.
(And remember that you can freely retrain your character before you play them at Level 2. So you can start out with Arcana on Level 1 and switch it to some other skill just before Level 2 when you get additional lore.)
"I am Zot the Magnificent, and I fight foes in the same manner as my draconic ancestors... with a rapier!"
Wait you can make a message as your PF character?
"Of course you can! Because I am a mighty dragon, and dragons can do anything!"
Are you limited to only the pfps on Paizo website or can you upload your own for your character? Say you commissioned art or made a heroforge?
- Allow eidolons to wear and use tools to enable certain skill actions.
- Make several psychic feats that do aoe friendly fire more party friendly.
- Give oracles a spell list like the sorcerer and psychic.
- Make overlapping languages during character creation allow you to choose another accessible language, like how skills work with backgrounds and some feats.
Less underpowered wizards
This is too abstract to put into poll.
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It has already been suggested so consider this a second to it, but auto-scaling of background lore should be the standard.
Clarify how to handle things like having an ability that uses your class dc when you don't have one. Magus can take a feat to give them crit specialization for brawling. But as spellcasters they get a spell dc but no class dc
I'm not putting clarifications into the poll due this is a default work of Paizo with the FAQ.
About this specific case for we already have a similar situation with Warpriests that solve this using your Divine Spell DC. Probably will be the same for Magus but with Arcane Spell DC. We need to wait an errata of SoM to know.
This is only one of many things in SoM that's need to be clarified/fixed. Until them the GM need to use to good old common sense to solve it.
- Allow eidolons to wear and use tools to enable certain skill actions.
I won't put this now because we don't know yet if this isn't the right way. There's a fair doubt if this wasn't simply an error. Maybe in SoM errata they put that Eidolons cannot need tools at all in the same way that they use unarmed attacks to represent it's weapons or that non-magical/alchemical mundane tools are an exception.
- Make several psychic feats that do aoe friendly fire more party friendly.
- Give oracles a spell list like the sorcerer and psychic.
- Make overlapping languages during character creation allow you to choose another accessible language, like how skills work with backgrounds and some feats.
Added to the poll options.
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For Lores, I would make additional lore let you pick which lore skill scales. Basically you get a new lore, and can pick one lore skill you have to auto scale.
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I don't know that there's room for it in PF2, but... I miss the body horror Alchemist. The version of the class I fell in love with was about permanent discoveries, not consumable items.
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The ship has long ago sailed on these, since they came up in playtest, but.
Bring back a general feat at 1st level.
Give us ways to have scaling proficiency not tied to class and archetype.
Lay off on tagging any vaguely interesting character options as Uncommon. (Seriously, is the purpose of the rarity system to enforce power levels, or euro-centrism? It seems even the writers can't decide)