How to blast ?


Advice


I was wandering if there existed any guides to being a blaster caster and how to be reasonably effective from level 1 to 10?


I've never seen such a guide.
Also, it's a bit hard to be a blaster prior to level 5. I don't know if it's a requirement for you or not?

I play a Sorcerer, a Tempest Oracle and a Psychic. The Sorcerer is clearly the best blaster: the large spell list combined with Dangerous Sorcery makes a great blaster.

I don't think there's anything complicated in playing a blaster. The only thing I'd say is to use your spell slots. Blasts work better when you cast a few of them, a single one feels lackluster. So you need to play a Spontaneous caster and preferably a Sorcerer to have enough spell slots, or a caster with a strong blast Focus Spell (I heard about the Druid but never tested it myself, and there's the Shatter Mind Psychic).

The caster that can get to the highest numbers is the mounted Evocation Wizard. Preferably with Spell Blending. But it's a high level build, so I don't think it's of any interest to you.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
SuperBidi wrote:
The caster that can get to the highest numbers is the mounted Evocation Wizard. Preferably with Spell Blending. But it's a high level build, so I don't think it's of any interest to you.

It's of interest to me. How does it work?


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Ravingdork wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:
The caster that can get to the highest numbers is the mounted Evocation Wizard. Preferably with Spell Blending. But it's a high level build, so I don't think it's of any interest to you.
It's of interest to me. How does it work?

At level 8 you can grab Elemental Tempest which is very interesting in terms of damage but awful because of its area. So you combine a Mount for positioning, then Elemental Tempest + any blast spell for quite crazy amount of aoe damage.

So you get the highest numbers. Now, it doesn't mean it's the "best blaster" as you have to be 10 feet away from enemies which is a bit tough for a Wizard. Especially one with such a damage output.

Vigilant Seal

Would a goblin Elemental (Fire) Sorcerer with Burn it! and Dangerous Sorcery make for a good blaster? I was trying to make a Final Fantasy "Black Mage" grabbing, Fire, Cold and Lightning spells with some utility spells as well.


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Trixleby wrote:
Would a goblin Elemental (Fire) Sorcerer with Burn it! and Dangerous Sorcery make for a good blaster? I was trying to make a Final Fantasy "Black Mage" grabbing, Fire, Cold and Lightning spells with some utility spells as well.

Dangerous Sorcery and Burn It are both status bonuses. They do not stack.

That said, if what you want is a dedicated blaster, I would encourage you (if possible) to wait a few months and see how kineticist turns out. They're going to at least try to turn that into a decent blaster chassis. In general, my understanding is that the current options for dedicated blasters are kind of anemic. No existing classes are really built for "dedicated blaster" and so you wind up paying build points for flexibility that you never use.

It's kind of like trying to play an alchemist as a 100% dedicated bomber (though, admittedly, not as bad).


If they deal with the Kineticist the same way they dealt with Treasure Vault, we sure should see a hell of a class (do you fear power creep, too? Because I do).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

At low level. All you need to be a good blaster as a caster is electric arc, ray of frost, and a blasty focus spell. Ray of frost is more for reach than for damage type. Evocation wizards have a very nice blasty focus spell to fill in 3rd action damage. Especially against difficult to hit targets. No one thing you do is going to do awesome single target damage, but your ability to almost always be able to do some damage will be pretty good, better than any PF1 caster at level 1, and pretty much keep up all day. This also leaves you with spell slot spells you can do whatever you want with, although they go very quickly. By even level 2 or 3 you can start bringing in scrolls to help a lot with stamina, but not right off at level 1.

As far as low level damage spells:
Shocking grasp and hydraulic push are both very good damage. But they are spell attack roll spells so the miss factor can be excruciatingly painful if you only have 2 or 3 spell slots. With true strike or an available hero point both are pretty reliable, but that nocks you back to 1 or 2 spells a day, which is AD&D levels of rough, only you still have your focus spell and cantrips that are more than adequate for low level adventuring. If you are a human wizard, reach spell on electric arc is amazing…at low levels.

What trips people up about blasting as casters in PF2 is that you get better at it by switching up what spells you cast at each new spell level. Some times you heighten a spell that has been an old staple, but usually you are better off finding a new spell that does damage AND something else useful to you or the party. Shocking grasp remains always at the top end of single target spell damage, but touch is rough on casters, and spell attack roll spells need accuracy help to land reliably. Which is possible! And a lot of damage…but also likely to get you focus fired into the dirt.

Magic missile is a major sleeper spell for extra damage every round, doing force damage against otherwise resistant enemies and working great against impossibly high defense enemies. Players think it is just for 3 action casting, but 1 action missiles heightened to the highest appropriate level (it heightens on odd levels only) can be great for picking off difficult, but injured foes, even one’s trying to run away. Scrolls, wands and staves are eventually very important resources for blaster casting. Just like striking runes are for martial characters. If you are not spending gold on increasing your spell output by level 4 or 5, you are a martial running around with a non-magical weapon. This is a problem with Automatic Bonus Progression that is often overlooked. APB should probably grant one free spell slot per spell level to compensate.


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The most reliable blaster is probably psychic. 1-5 you spam electric arc and the occasional magic missile or amp daze. At 6 you transition into shatter mind spam. You have a pretty natural rotation of
1) spell + anything (stride, etc)
2) unleash + shatter + anything
3) shatter + anything

And with any luck the fight will be over. You can even open with another shatter mind if you want. Only uses focus points so your only limit is your refocus opportunity. If your gm doesn't give you much time for it, go with a spell blend wizard to maximize your top level daily slots.


Casters really come into their own in later levels. Especially in later levels when you get action economy helpers like effortless concentration, or other single action spell options like flame body's produce flame. Doing stuff like free action sustain implosion to do 75 damage, single action elemental toss to do 9d8 + 18 damage, and then chain lightning for 11D12 + 9 damage to a bunch of targets on top of that, you wreck groups of enemies.

Early levels are tougher, even more so depending on how many encounters you end up having each day. I feel that really skews the balance of which caster blasts the best, with psychic being better over many fights and fights no longer than 3 rounds (or really long fights I guess?) And sorcerer taking the win if you have a few fights where you're able to unload a fireball right away.


As someone who plays blasters more than any other class, I can tell you it won’t be until level 7 that you are likely to feel at all effective at doing damage with spells. That said, some spell options:

Hydraulic Push is fine for 1st level, but scales poorly and pushing enemies back can be a real annoyance to melee character allies who have to now chase the target around the battlefield.

Shocking Grasp is too risky as it is a spell attack at touch range and doesn’t scale well for it either for being single target.

Sudden Bolt is uncommon, but starts at 4d12 at 2nd level and is good up through and including 5th level for single target damage.

Acid Arrow can be good for boss fights due to the persistent damage, but also scales poorly and is too low in damage for anything but a 2nd level cast.

Scorching Ray is my current character’s bread and butter for spell slot damage. It is equal to fireball damage, but is targeted and has multi-action choices. However, unless triggering a weakness, I wouldn’t recommend it for single target.

Magic Missile is great to deal with running into Ferocity or Willow Wisps and is great for doing that bit of extra damage to enemies near 0 hit points.

At higher levels, Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, and Polar Ray make for excellent blast spells.


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Sanityfaerie wrote:
Trixleby wrote:
Would a goblin Elemental (Fire) Sorcerer with Burn it! and Dangerous Sorcery make for a good blaster? I was trying to make a Final Fantasy "Black Mage" grabbing, Fire, Cold and Lightning spells with some utility spells as well.
Dangerous Sorcery and Burn It are both status bonuses. They do not stack.

But Elemental and Phoenix Blood Magic stacks but only vs a single target and when using a Granted Spell with a spellslot or focus. If you have both Dangerous Sorcery and Burn it! you can use Dangerous Sorcery bonus when using a spellslot and Burn it! half-bonus when using a focus spell.

Having said that, I remember that the main problem with making a blaster is the fact that even sorcerers have few top level spellslots per day. This means that if there are a lot of encounters you will have to save your blasts (which is often frustrating) or you will run out of your biggest spellslots very quickly.
At this point I most recommend psychic. The fact that it starts with 2 focus points, has great offensive AMPs, and that Unleash Psyche
It basically gives you +2 damage per spell level on all spells, including cantrips and focus spells against all targets, makes your spells quite powerful and keeps you sustainable throughout the day. The problem is that after the Unleash ends and your focus points are gone, you are basically 2 turns very weakened (25% cast failure and -1 pretty much cripples anything that isn't a cantrip).
But over time this improves, things like Strain Mind increase the effective number of focus points you can use per encounter (as long as there's a 1 hour gap between them) and at later levels feats like Deepest Wellspring and Twin Psyche improve quite the situation of the unleash and focus spells.


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YuriP wrote:
I remember that the main problem with making a blaster is the fact that even sorcerers have few top level spellslots per day. This means that if there are a lot of encounters you will have to save your blasts (which is often frustrating) or you will run out of your biggest spellslots very quickly.

This is so utterly true and is tied to my biggest issue with spell casting in this system. It takes the blaster their highest level slots to remain competitive and effective in a combat, but rarely if ever does a single slot do enough damage on its own to suffice for the encounter. This results in every other class using it’s best features every encounter while the blaster is having to pick and choose if they will use theirs in any encounter. It leads me to the conclusion that either slotted spells need to do more damage, enemies should have lowered defenses, or there should be more total slots for casters. Any one of those three seem like the right solution to me.


Lucerious wrote:
It leads me to the conclusion that either slotted spells need to do more damage, enemies should have lowered defenses, or there should be more total slots for casters. Any one of those three seem like the right solution to me.

Maybe additional spell slots. Which is why people recommend Spell Blending for blaster Wizard. I don't recommend any of the others - it would tinker with the balance of a lot of other things too.

The other one that I would point out is focus point blasting - which is why Druid is considered a good blaster caster with spells like Tempest Surge, Crushing Ground, and Stone Lance.


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You're looking for Blaster Caster: the Discerning Archmage's Guide to Small Ball by The Magic Sword.


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Lucerious wrote:
YuriP wrote:
I remember that the main problem with making a blaster is the fact that even sorcerers have few top level spellslots per day. This means that if there are a lot of encounters you will have to save your blasts (which is often frustrating) or you will run out of your biggest spellslots very quickly.
This is so utterly true and is tied to my biggest issue with spell casting in this system. It takes the blaster their highest level slots to remain competitive and effective in a combat, but rarely if ever does a single slot do enough damage on its own to suffice for the encounter. This results in every other class using it’s best features every encounter while the blaster is having to pick and choose if they will use theirs in any encounter. It leads me to the conclusion that either slotted spells need to do more damage, enemies should have lowered defenses, or there should be more total slots for casters. Any one of those three seem like the right solution to me.

I think that what's going on here is honestly "our current casters are not built as blasters". Casters are inherently high-utility characters who run on fairly restrictive daily resource pools. As such, they are less effective than usual when not leveraging all of their flexibility, and more effective than usual (briefly) when going full burn. You can go full burn in order to pretend to be an effective dedicated blaster for a while, but you run out pretty quick... and the answer isn't "Casters should be buffed overall so that my blaster can fight on par with a martial".

SuperBidi wrote:
If they deal with the Kineticist the same way they dealt with Treasure Vault, we sure should see a hell of a class (do you fear power creep, too? Because I do).

I expect that Kineticist will be able to do things no other class can do. If we're all lucky, "be a capable, competitive Blaster" will be on that list. I don't expect that they'll break the power ceiling, any more than the Magus or the Psychic did. I do expect that they'll get a bit closer to it than some of the classes we've seen have, though.

I think that what Paizo is trying to do is (carefully) get closer and closer to their self-assigned power ceiling (as defined by classes like the Fighter, Bard, Druid, etc) without actually going through it. I have a fair bit of confidence in their ability to do just that. Like, Treasure Vault made the Chirurgeon Alchemist stronger. It did! It didn't make them stronger than the Cleric, though.


Blaster Wizards are fine, it just requires a particular build to be effective.

1) Pick a Spell Blending Evoker: that will let you bring 5 (odd levels) or 6 (even levels) top slots to the fight every day. 2/3 from base class, +1 for Evoker, +1 from Spell Blending, +1 from Drain Bonded Item

2) Fill the top slots with damage spells across multiple defense types: AC, Reflex, Fort. Take two of your favorite spell (e.g. 2 AC, 1 Ref, 1 Fort)

3) Don't restrict yourself to spells of the highest level you can cast, look at heightened lower level spells

4) Fill lower level slots with debuffs and utility spells that will give your damage spells a better chance to hit/crit

5) As soon as possible, pick up a Staff of favorite attack (or Divination) and a Ring of Wizardry to give you more slots

6) Plan your day. The adventuring day usually won't be more than 3-4 fights since healing options run dry, shields need repair, and searching things, plot point development also takes time. Unless you are having a rough go, you'll see a couple of mook fights and 1, maybe 2 boss fights that each have a different style. A fight only goes 3-4 rounds normally so your average fight sequence will be something like:
Mob fight>> (1) RK and AoE debuff, (2) AoE blast and move, (3) second tier blast or debuff (4) second tier blast or cantrip.
Boss fight>> (1) RK and debuff, (2) Single-target blast and move, (3) drain-bonded item and re-nuke (4) second tier spell, cantrip, or third top-tier spell if needed

Recall knowledge is the key - targeting average or lowest defense (which may be AC) will let spells land hard. Accidentally targeting the highest defense or an immunity will lead to a bad day.

For second-tier spells, look for ones where a single casting gives you multiple sustained attacks - you can roll a heightened flaming sphere around for kind of a while. Biting Words and Spiritual Weapon (for Occult casters) also give multiple attacks over multiple rounds. Organsight gives the Telekinetic Projectile cantrip a serious bite for up to a minute, etc.

Silver Crusade

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Lucerious wrote:


This is so utterly true and is tied to my biggest issue with spell casting in this system. It takes the blaster their highest level slots to remain competitive and effective in a combat, but rarely if ever does a single slot do enough damage on its own to suffice for the encounter. This results in every other class using it’s best features every encounter while the blaster is having to pick and choose if they will use theirs in any encounter. It leads me to the conclusion that either slotted spells need to do more damage, enemies should have lowered defenses, or there should be more total slots for casters. Any one of those three seem like the right solution to me.

Somehow this comment crystalized WHY I love druids so much in 2nd edition.

A druid can wild shape into a reasonably effective combat form. Not generally as effective as a martial but not TOO far behind.

When you toss in some quite good focus spells (tempest surge, for example) they have the option of not using ANY high level spell slots in moderate encounters, conserving their higher level spell slots for the encounters that really benefit from them.

Although having significantly less spell slots than a wizard or sorcerer they often FEEL like they have as many or even more since they can be quite effective without using any (unlike a wizard or sorcerer).

Combine that with their significantly better defences (as compared to a sorcerer or wizard) they form a very effective caster who only blasts some of the time but is nearly as dangerous blasting as a sorcerer those times that they DO blast.


Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer always seemed like a great starting point for a blaster. Especially with the expanded options from the Mwangi book (Sea and Sky, in particular, for being easy to place). Dragon Breath is the gold standard of focus spells for blasting.

Being able to throw out a free max-level Fireball every fight (okay it does 1d6 less than Fireball, but) adds a lot of ammo to your adventuring day (and that increases at higher levels when you can refocus more points).

For shenanigans, you could also do Wyrmblessed if you wanted to use the divine list, since it still has respectable blasting options (if a bit less universal than arcane).


pauljathome wrote:

Somehow this comment crystalized WHY I love druids so much in 2nd edition.

A druid can wild shape into a reasonably effective combat form. Not generally as effective as a martial but not TOO far behind.

When you toss in some quite good focus spells (tempest surge, for example) they have the option of not using ANY high level spell slots in moderate encounters, conserving their higher level spell slots for the encounters that really benefit from them.

Although having significantly less spell slots than a wizard or sorcerer they often FEEL like they have as many or even more since they can be quite effective without using any (unlike a wizard or sorcerer).

Combine that with their significantly better defences (as compared to a sorcerer or wizard) they form a very effective caster who only blasts some of the time but is nearly as dangerous blasting as a sorcerer those times that they DO blast.

We have an orc druid in our party who went Stormborn and took the feat to take Wild Shape at second level. He is never without something effective to do, and as we use FA, he also MC’d into sorcerer accessing Dangerous Sorcery. He is often just as capable as our fighter when in battle forms (less to-hit chance but very good reach and damage to compensate), can heal when needed, and can throw out just as effective blasts as my sorcerer. Add that his character gets 8hp/level, armor options, Shield Block, and a more useful primary stat, I have been struck thinking the druid is the superior caster in this system by a measure. If not for my aversion to Vancian magic, I don’t think I would play anything else.

Silver Crusade

Lucerious wrote:

If not for my aversion to Vancian magic, I don’t think I would play anything else.

The druid can take flexible caster and maybe get around your aversion to Vancian magic (depending on exactly what your aversion is).

I do this a lot with my druids. Losing the spells hurts but they can just about handle it due to their focus spells and/or wild shapes. Especially with Free Archetype picking up some of the missing spell slack.


pauljathome wrote:
Lucerious wrote:

If not for my aversion to Vancian magic, I don’t think I would play anything else.

The druid can take flexible caster and maybe get around your aversion to Vancian magic (depending on exactly what your aversion is).

I do this a lot with my druids. Losing the spells hurts but they can just about handle it due to their focus spells and/or wild shapes. Especially with Free Archetype picking up some of the missing spell slack.

I’m aware of the class archetype. I don’t care for it as I believe the costs are heavier to the scale than the benefits. However, if there is a prepared caster who could still manage the drawbacks well it would be the druid.


You want to BLAST at level 1?!

Magic weapon lol. Seriously.

Summon animal (some aren't to bad to hit enemies with at level 1 and don't always fall over at a slight breeze)

Why these two?

You don't have the spell slots to blast all day. Cones are all locked to 15ft at this level.

But I get this goes against your average players notions.

So instead

Cantrips.

For ranged attacks, at level 1, that's a short bow, especially within that range of a Cantrip. 1d6 damage.

A Cantrip will be doing 1d4+4. 1-6 vs 5-8, fantastic minimum damage

Then you have options like electric arc or scatter scree to hit multiple targets.

Cantrips carry you until you have the spell slots.

At spell level 2 I become a fan of flaming sphere. Any sustained spell that can let you deal damage for one action is incredible value.

Once you get around level 7 as the other poster said, you really start getting the slots needed


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Martialmasters wrote:

You want to BLAST at level 1?!

Magic weapon lol. Seriously.

Summon animal (some aren't to bad to hit enemies with at level 1 and don't always fall over at a slight breeze)

Why these two?

You don't have the spell slots to blast all day. Cones are all locked to 15ft at this level.

But I get this goes against your average players notions.

So instead

Cantrips.

For ranged attacks, at level 1, that's a short bow, especially within that range of a Cantrip. 1d6 damage.

A Cantrip will be doing 1d4+4. 1-6 vs 5-8, fantastic minimum damage

Then you have options like electric arc or scatter scree to hit multiple targets.

Cantrips carry you until you have the spell slots.

At spell level 2 I become a fan of flaming sphere. Any sustained spell that can let you deal damage for one action is incredible value.

Once you get around level 7 as the other poster said, you really start getting the slots needed

Yeah, I agree with this. Cantrips are what you need to rely on at low levels, but that's ok because at low levels cantrips are at their strongest.

1. Enemy HP is low enough to where you can one shot many of them even with minimum damage.
2. Weapons don't have runes to let them pull ahead yet.
3. Level 1 characters can't afford composite bows yet.

Stand out cantrips:

Electric Arc is just the best.
Ray of Frost for long range.
Telekinetic Projectile, AK the skeleton and zombie killer.
Scatter Scree: save based with light control, but also an AoE for swarms.
Spout: AoE, and also nice for the odd fire elemental.
Produce Flame: Lots of fire weak creatures out there, and you can flank with it.
Divine Lance: doesn't work on neutral enemies, but you often can deescalate those anyway. Meanwhile it does weakness damage to every fiend in the game.


I just found a nice combo (even if it's a bit expensive):
Fervor Witch + a bunch of Wands of Manifold Missiles.
First round of Stoke the Heart + 2 times Wands.
Then one action per round to maintain Stoke the Heart and any other spell next to that.

This build outdamages a Fighter in boss fights.


SuperBidi wrote:

I just found a nice combo (even if it's a bit expensive):

Fervor Witch + a bunch of Wands of Manifold Missiles.
First round of Stoke the Heart + 2 times Wands.
Then one action per round to maintain Stoke the Heart and any other spell next to that.

This build outdamages a Fighter in boss fights.

note that it requires a caster dedication since fervor doesn't have magic missile natively. Add moderate tentacle potion to hold a 3rd wand to trigger on turn 2.


I'm eagerly waiting for TV to appear on Nethys...
I haven't tried to optimize this build beyond that. But yes, maybe it's possible to get even more damage out of it.

I've looked at it, and in fact the 2 missiles deal as much damage than a full Fighter round against a level +3 boss. Quite impressive for a blaster. So I think I'll add the Fervor Witch to the list of blasters.

Vigilant Seal

gesalt wrote:
SuperBidi wrote:

I just found a nice combo (even if it's a bit expensive):

Fervor Witch + a bunch of Wands of Manifold Missiles.
First round of Stoke the Heart + 2 times Wands.
Then one action per round to maintain Stoke the Heart and any other spell next to that.

This build outdamages a Fighter in boss fights.

note that it requires a caster dedication since fervor doesn't have magic missile natively. Add moderate tentacle potion to hold a 3rd wand to trigger on turn 2.

Could you say this differently because it doesn't make sense to me? Is Fervor Witch not a spellcaster? Why would you need to take a Caster Dedication to be allowed to use Scrolls when you are already a Spellcaster? "Does not have magic missile natively."

Are you saying in order to use Wand of Magic Missile (or scroll I guess) you need a spellcaster dedication that would natively have Magic Missile on its spell list (Basically Arcane to the best of my knowledge), so probably Wizard dedication.

Am I correct on what you are saying?


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Trixleby wrote:
Are you saying in order to use Wand of Magic Missile (or scroll I guess) you need a spellcaster dedication that would natively have Magic Missile on its spell list

Yes, that. Both Scrolls and Wands say that you can only cast the spell from the item if you have the spell on your spell list.

It is a bit uncertain what exactly is 'on your spell list', but the general idea is that it is the common spells of your tradition list, any non-common spells of your tradition list that you have learned, and any spells that have been explicitly added to your spell list through feats or abilities.

Fervor Witch doesn't have Magic Missile on its tradition, and there aren't any Lesson feats that add it (and Lesson feats don't actually add the spells that they give to 'your spell list', but that seems more like a bug that needs errata rather than an intentional limitation). So a spellcasting archetype with Arcane or Occult tradition would be needed.


SuperBidi wrote:

I'm eagerly waiting for TV to appear on Nethys...

I haven't tried to optimize this build beyond that. But yes, maybe it's possible to get even more damage out of it.

I've looked at it, and in fact the 2 missiles deal as much damage than a full Fighter round against a level +3 boss. Quite impressive for a blaster. So I think I'll add the Fervor Witch to the list of blasters.

Oh this is very funny... the inevitability of the boosted magic missiles definitely gets around the unreliability complaints blasters usually get. Am I understanding correctly that if you use magic missiles to target multiple creatures it'll apply Stoke the Heart separately to each missile, doubling the value on 2-action missiles?


gesalt wrote:
Add moderate tentacle potion to hold a 3rd wand to trigger on turn 2.

Or the base potion if you have a tail.


graystone wrote:
gesalt wrote:
Add moderate tentacle potion to hold a 3rd wand to trigger on turn 2.
Or the base potion if you have a tail.

Fervor Witch, right? You can get Living Hair and Skillful Tresses. Drop one of the wands after using it and (as far as I know) transferring the wand in your hair to a hand able to activate it doesn't cost an action.


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I don't think dropping the wand would work since it would stop casting at that point. But you should be able to swap an activated wand into your hair since you only need to be holding it and don't need to activate it again.


Eoran wrote:
I don't think dropping the wand would work since it would stop casting at that point. But you should be able to swap an activated wand into your hair since you only need to be holding it and don't need to activate it again.

Manifold wands actually require continuous wielding instead of holding so that rules out the tentacle potion too I think. Unfortunate, but only a minor loss.


How do you wield a wand other than by holding it?


gesalt wrote:
Eoran wrote:
I don't think dropping the wand would work since it would stop casting at that point. But you should be able to swap an activated wand into your hair since you only need to be holding it and don't need to activate it again.
Manifold wands actually require continuous wielding instead of holding so that rules out the tentacle potion too I think. Unfortunate, but only a minor loss.

There is no functional difference in those terms:

Wielding Items, Core Rulebook pg. 272
"You're wielding an item any time you're holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively." So switching hands would still mean continuous wielding IMO.

Secondly, Skillful Tresses doesn't allow an "attack with any items it's holding" so it's off the table for that reason.


Wielding Items wrote:
Some abilities require you to wield an item, typically a weapon. You're wielding an item any time you're holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you're not just carrying it around—you're ready to use it. Other abilities might require you to be wearing the item, to be holding it, or simply to have it.

I imagine it has the same restrictions as weapons. Can skillful tresses wield a weapon despite not being able to make attacks, activate items and not being a hand? Ditto tentacle potion except maybe greater but that's only for the purposes of things that need two hands (like the wind ocarina maybe).


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gesalt wrote:
Wielding Items wrote:
Some abilities require you to wield an item, typically a weapon. You're wielding an item any time you're holding it in the number of hands needed to use it effectively. When wielding an item, you're not just carrying it around—you're ready to use it. Other abilities might require you to be wearing the item, to be holding it, or simply to have it.
I imagine it has the same restrictions as weapons. Can skillful tresses wield a weapon despite not being able to make attacks, activate items and not being a hand? Ditto tentacle potion except maybe greater but that's only for the purposes of things that need two hands (like the wind ocarina maybe).

Skillful tresses: It can't wield anything as it can't attack with anything. This isn't the same with the potion as it doesn't say anything would being unable to activate or attack with what you're holding. So no ditto. Skillful tresses' hand is able to hold items and get a passive effect, say Tome implements bonus to Recall Knowledge, but is unable to use a Wand implement to Fling Magic. The tentacle potions allow for an unfettered holding of items, without any restrictions on attacking or activating what's held: hence they aren't the same 'hold'.


A wand isn't a weapon. You can't activate an item held in the hair. But the wand doesn't need activated a second time - only wielded: held in the correct number of hands.


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The argument is still a bit shaky. Maybe you should just drop it.


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Dropping the wand will definitely make it no longer active though.


Eoran wrote:
A wand isn't a weapon. You can't activate an item held in the hair. But the wand doesn't need activated a second time - only wielded: held in the correct number of hands.

You are attacking with the wand that's been activating and you can't do that with the hair. It says attacking, not Striking.


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I... That's not...

Nevermind. I think I'm going to take my own advice.


graystone wrote:
Skillful tresses: It can't wield anything as it can't attack with anything. This isn't the same with the potion as it doesn't say anything would being unable to activate or attack with what you're holding. So no ditto. Skillful tresses' hand is able to hold items and get a passive effect, say Tome implements bonus to Recall Knowledge, but is unable to use a Wand implement to Fling Magic. The tentacle potions allow for an unfettered holding of items, without any restrictions on attacking or activating what's held: hence they aren't the same 'hold'.

But wielding still says it needs hands which I'm not sure either qualifies for.


gesalt wrote:
graystone wrote:
Skillful tresses: It can't wield anything as it can't attack with anything. This isn't the same with the potion as it doesn't say anything would being unable to activate or attack with what you're holding. So no ditto. Skillful tresses' hand is able to hold items and get a passive effect, say Tome implements bonus to Recall Knowledge, but is unable to use a Wand implement to Fling Magic. The tentacle potions allow for an unfettered holding of items, without any restrictions on attacking or activating what's held: hence they aren't the same 'hold'.
But wielding still says it needs hands which I'm not sure either qualifies for.

How can you hold something without a hand? Where is the examples of Hands: 0 items that take 0 hands to hold? Look at Table 6-2: Changing Equipment once. Note that every instance requires a hand like 'Draw or put away a worn item, or pick up an item" [needed to hold said item] and 'Drop an item to the ground' [needed to get rid of a held item]. There is a reason Skillful tresses has a specific call out that you can't attack/activate with them [as holding usually means you could].

Basically, hold with no hands is a worn item...


Captain Morgan wrote:
Scatter Scree: save based with light control, but also an AoE for swarms.

Scatter Scree being AoE also negates any concealment or hidden check.

Captain Morgan wrote:
Produce Flame: Lots of fire weak creatures out there, and you can flank with it.

You can flank with your foot. You can benefit from flanking with this when used at melee range. Which is more to the point.


graystone wrote:
gesalt wrote:
graystone wrote:
Skillful tresses: It can't wield anything as it can't attack with anything. This isn't the same with the potion as it doesn't say anything would being unable to activate or attack with what you're holding. So no ditto. Skillful tresses' hand is able to hold items and get a passive effect, say Tome implements bonus to Recall Knowledge, but is unable to use a Wand implement to Fling Magic. The tentacle potions allow for an unfettered holding of items, without any restrictions on attacking or activating what's held: hence they aren't the same 'hold'.
But wielding still says it needs hands which I'm not sure either qualifies for.

How can you hold something without a hand? Where is the examples of Hands: 0 items that take 0 hands to hold? Look at Table 6-2: Changing Equipment once. Note that every instance requires a hand like 'Draw or put away a worn item, or pick up an item" [needed to hold said item] and 'Drop an item to the ground' [needed to get rid of a held item]. There is a reason Skillful tresses has a specific call out that you can't attack/activate with them [as holding usually means you could].

Basically, hold with no hands is a worn item...

These items/feats, for instance would be how you do it. There are plenty of items without specific usage entries like tools that only need to be held or worn or spyglasses that need two hands (of which a greater tentacle can be one).

Given the premium with which pf2 treats hands, I'd love for this to work but I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't because they are aren't actually hands with which to qualify for Usage entries.

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