breithauptclan |
With no mechanics, you could be an NPC played by a different player than the GM. You couldn't really do much in combat or skill challenges, but you could role-play to your heart's content.
To mechanically be a player character, my first thought is Summoner permanently using Meld Into Eidolon. It is a pretty weak character though. You couldn't use any of your own spells or skill feats.
For something more effective, maybe Shoony reflavored to actually walk on all-fours?
Claxon |
gesalt wrote:Just never ever dismiss the effect of the fanged rune and use something nobody will question a dog holding in its mouth.Club is pretty much just a stick.
It might not be super effective, but get the fanged and shifting runes on a weapon and now it can be a "stick" that transforms into various weapons.
Unicore |
If this is just for fun with your group and the party is already 4 or more players, Having a party animal companion that is not a minion would probably work just fine.
It is not going to be perfectly balanced for the player, but I can't imagine a player wanting that experience is going to put up a fuss about it, and if you are the GM, you could just boost the HP to 10 per level for survivability.
If you don't adjust up encounter xp for extra players, I am sure the overall play experience will be fine.
breithauptclan |
If this is just for fun with your group and the party is already 4 or more players, Having a party animal companion that is not a minion would probably work just fine.
Similarly, you could use the stats for Animal Form. Perhaps with some of the AC and attack bonus scaling that some of the other polymorph spell forms have at higher spell levels. And of course without the size increase effect for the heightened levels.
You would have to pick an HP value though.
pauljathome |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not overwhelmingly helpful, but I have to point out that this is VERY doable in PF1. The Courtly Hunter archetype lets your animal companion turn into a pet sized animal. I have a PFS legal cat (with a human servant :-)).
I think the closest you'd come in PF2 would be a wolf or dog animal companion as your main characters with a "support" character throwing spells as appropriate to make you actually useful
WatersLethe |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Or do you want an actually 4 legged "normal" dog?
An actual, honest-to-goodness, 4 legged dog that is lassie levels of smart in order to actually function as a PC. Reflavoring Shoony was my first thought, but I was wondering if there was another good idea.
This is a character I would play in a less serious campaign or one-shot, so presumably the GM would be flexible about it. So far, it seems like a dog running around with a "Fanged" stick seems pretty passable. I don't think a GM would like to homebrew a whole custom animal progression for me, so I think I'll leave the NPC and animal companion suggestions aside.
Now I'm wondering about just how bad an Earthly Winds Kitsune in Fox (but let's call it Dog) Form piloting a melded-into Eidolon would be.
Cydeth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I'd probably take the Wolf animal companion as a baseline for the ancestry, giving 6 hp, low-light vision, scent 30 feet (imprecise), and a 1d8 bite, with the rather significant disadvantage of being a dog. I'd reduce the speed because that seems a bit much, dropping it to 30 feet (but add a speed heritage or feat). Then I'd mix and match various ancestry feats from other ancestries like gnoll, shoony, and catfolk to build a set of ancestry feats for it, adding in the support benefits from the Wolf as options that were slightly modified to fit. I'd just use the two free boosts like current errata for attributes, but if I had to do two boosts and a flaw, I'd vary it based on breed, with +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Int being the baseline from the Wolf (assuming one physical and one mental boost).
With that, I'd probably build the character depending on the style I wanted, since I could see it as a bunch of options, whether rogue, ranger, or monk.
*drops his two copper in the bowl*
breithauptclan |
Now I'm wondering about just how bad an Earthly Winds Kitsune in Fox (but let's call it Dog) Form piloting a melded-into Eidolon would be.
For rules-legal it is a bit shaky on certain things.
Kitsune uses Pest Form for changing into a fox - so it would be a tiny size and unable to use Strikes, speak, use manipulate actions, or cast spells. Fortunately Manifest Eidolon isn't actually a spell - but it does have the Manipulate trait. So you would have to get a pass from the GM and table for that.
A Beast Eidolon starts at size medium. There are feats that can drop that to size small at level 4 and tiny at level 8. So it looks like there will be some hulking out (at least at lower levels) when combat starts.
There are also some other strange things going on because of the dual nature - you would be able to speak and manipulate while in Eidolon form, though you couldn't while in fox form. In addition to being able to Strike. You could even get some spells that you can cast in Eidolon form.
As for being underpowered:
You wouldn't ever have access to any of the Summoner's primary spellcasting. It would take you three actions (you get one back though) in order to prepare for battle - you could do this before battle starts though. You couldn't use items in either form, so you would have to surreptitiously cheat a bit in order to put on handwraps in order to increase your Eidolon's unarmed attacks. Wouldn't be a problem if using ABP though.
-------
In general though, If a player of mine wanted to play something underpowered for the lols, I would probably let them - as long as the rest of the table was on-board with that and it was discussed at session 0 so that the encounters could be balanced for it.
Running as a non-minion animal companion seems like the easiest thing to do.
Hilary Moon Murphy Contributor |
WatersLethe |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you don't care about the ability to actually bite people, a poppet with the quadruped feat could probably pass quite well as a dog, especially if traveling with alongside another character. Some stuffed animals look very realistic indeed.
Hmm
!!
A wished-alive toy dog!
Hilary Moon Murphy Contributor |
Ravingdork |
This thread is amazing.
Another good rune to put on that Fanged weapon is Extending for "ranged" attacks.
It would be the ultimate transmutation weapon, capable of changing you, itself, and reaching out to change others.
Castilliano |
Unless your name is Scooby-Doo in a group of teenage Investigators, I'm not buying it.
Have GMed. Would recommend.*
We don't have much to go on here except "helpful, pretty smart, lovable dog" & "good boi" which leaves a lot of space. Too much space IMO as I can't tell if the OP means within normal dog parameters like Lassie or a military/police dog, talking dog/Scooby Doo levels, or a heroic version of Brian from Family Guy who's more like a human reskinned as a dog.
Yet in all the cases**, I would approach it from the Ancestry = dog POV with mainly the Int, languages, & # of free hands varying by which type of dog hero (which in turn will have a major impact on what classes are available and item usage). If it's on the more disadvantaged side of doggies, be liberal with giving it Scent, greater movement, 10 hp to start, maybe even higher physical stats. If full on anthropomorphic, I'd just go with Shoony (albeit not limited to pugs).
It's seems a simple Ancestry to build. Steal some of the feats from Shoony, maybe others. Tailor some found items into dog-themed ones, like quadruped armor. Though as the player, this all depends on the GM so I couldn't tell you which way to go if they're resistant. Perhaps go in the Asian mythology way, i.e. the show Korean Odyssey has a "dog" character who so far I've only seen as a woman except in an old photo back when she couldn't control her form well. In that vein it could be an Animal Instinct Barbarian who reverts to their natural form when Raging (losing control), perhaps with MCD Druid to get some Wild Shape abilities to maintain their dog form longer, even perpetually eventually (all of which can be reskinned as fighting curses, gaining/losing control, etc. though she has human intelligence.)
I'd recommend an unarmed weapon combatant as that overcomes some item hurdles and of course plays to the theme. A Monk w/ Wolf Stance or an Animal Instinct Wolf Barbarian would work. Run levels as normal.
*Ran Dragon's Demand with the Scooby Gang, toning it down and hamming it up, with occasional bursts of sharp contrast between genres, like that wasn't a mask you tore off (ew!). Scooby was just a new race, dog, in this case a Druid with an AC, Scooby-Dumb. It proved useful he spoke Dog. :-)
** Unless there's somebody with a dog/wolf Animal Companion perhaps?
Ravingdork |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Druid WildShape, Animal Form Canine, Form Control. It only lasts an hour but you can refocus in that time and recast. Almost permanent.
.
*BARK! BARK!*
(I'm going to the bathroom.)
*BARK! BARK!*
(I'll be right back.)
Barbarian: "Where do you think Doggo is going?"
Rogue: "Only one way to find out." *Sneaks after Doggo.*
-- A short time later --
*Catches sight of a half-dog, half-man, all-naked humanoid mid-transformation in the wood*
Rogue: *Screams*
Doggo: *Screams*
Doggo: "Oh, er, I mean, 'bark?'"
breithauptclan |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just have to link to this YouTube video for obvious reasons.
WatersLethe |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I just have to link to this YouTube video for obvious reasons.
You have my eternal gratitude.
Trixleby |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unicore wrote:If this is just for fun with your group and the party is already 4 or more players, Having a party animal companion that is not a minion would probably work just fine.Similarly, you could use the stats for Animal Form. Perhaps with some of the AC and attack bonus scaling that some of the other polymorph spell forms have at higher spell levels. And of course without the size increase effect for the heightened levels.
You would have to pick an HP value though.
I'm still so butthurt I can't just be a cat. I just want to be a panther, forever, in combat. Yes I'll do druid things elsewise out of combat like heal or whatever, but please, I just want to be a medium cat for 1-20 and have scaling animal form bonuses without the size increases. Why god. why.
Ravingdork |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
breithauptclan wrote:I'm still so butthurt I can't just be a cat. I just want to be a panther, forever, in combat. Yes I'll do druid things elsewise out of combat like heal or whatever, but please, I just want to be a medium cat for 1-20 and have scaling animal form bonuses without the size increases. Why god. why.Unicore wrote:If this is just for fun with your group and the party is already 4 or more players, Having a party animal companion that is not a minion would probably work just fine.Similarly, you could use the stats for Animal Form. Perhaps with some of the AC and attack bonus scaling that some of the other polymorph spell forms have at higher spell levels. And of course without the size increase effect for the heightened levels.
You would have to pick an HP value though.
Surely you can refocus while in wildshape form.
"[A druid] can regain 1 Focus Point by spending 10 minutes using the Refocus activity to commune with local nature spirits or otherwise tend to the wilderness in a way befitting [their] order."
A big cat taking a cat nap for 10 minutes to "dream with the spirits" or burying their poop to fertilize the forest and "tend to the wilderness" will get you your point back. You then refresh it before the duration runs out.
You can stay a cat practically forever with Form Control until you reach Perfect Form Control. (And a cat sleeping 10 minutes out of nearly every hour is kind of on point for a feline, no?)
Castilliano |
While it's half about remaining in form all day, which yes, is doable, there's the harder half of acquiring viable combat stats. This ties back to how battle forms (mostly) correlate power with size. While that makes intuitive sense and supports verisimilitude, that strands concepts based on fighting in an alternate form through one's career. Most regular PCs fight in one form while leveling so it's unfortunate a shapeshifter can't.
At least via spell upgrades/battle forms.
It might take a Shifter class to sort this out, since we're talking about a melee focus. In the meantime, Animal Barbarian seems about as close as one can get via class, though I could imagine other builds with an odd Ancestry + Monk getting close-ish.
Trixleby |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Trixleby wrote:breithauptclan wrote:I'm still so butthurt I can't just be a cat. I just want to be a panther, forever, in combat. Yes I'll do druid things elsewise out of combat like heal or whatever, but please, I just want to be a medium cat for 1-20 and have scaling animal form bonuses without the size increases. Why god. why.Unicore wrote:If this is just for fun with your group and the party is already 4 or more players, Having a party animal companion that is not a minion would probably work just fine.Similarly, you could use the stats for Animal Form. Perhaps with some of the AC and attack bonus scaling that some of the other polymorph spell forms have at higher spell levels. And of course without the size increase effect for the heightened levels.
You would have to pick an HP value though.
Surely you can refocus while in wildshape form.
"[A druid] can regain 1 Focus Point by spending 10 minutes using the Refocus activity to commune with local nature spirits or otherwise tend to the wilderness in a way befitting [their] order."
A big cat taking a cat nap for 10 minutes to "dream with the spirits" or burying their poop to fertilize the forest and "tend to the wilderness" will get you your point back. You then refresh it before the duration runs out.
You can stay a cat practically forever with Form Control until you reach Perfect Form Control. (And a cat sleeping 10 minutes out of nearly every hour is kind of on point for a feline, no?)
I believe the issue is that “Animal Form” caps at level 10 as far as heightened goes. Then it seems they shoe horn you into other more exotic forms like dinosaur, elemental, dragon etc each getting bigger and bigger like large - huge - colossal etc and you can’t turn that off, if you want scaling bonuses that keep up. Basically if you want to be “guy who transforms to fight” animal form has a limited shelf life.