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I love digging into the rich lore of Pathfinder, but there is one thing I can’t quite wrap my head around. What is the relationship between the Monad and the cycle of souls?
How souls and the afterlife works has been described in detail. From what I understand, souls are formed from unaligned potentiality and when mortals die, they are judged by Pharasma, lose their memories and eventually (after some time as petitioners and/or outsiders) merge with the planes. Planar stuff is then eroded by the Maelstrom and once again becomes unaligned potentiality.
Seems simple enough. Mortal life is the way quintessence chooses how it is distributed among the planes, and eventually each soul’s journey comes full circle.
But then… How does the Monad fit into this? The Monad is said to exist both within and outside the Multiverse and represents the “transcendental undersoul of all life”. While it is most strongly connected to the aeons, mortal souls are also said to be emanations of the Monad. Concordance of Rivals even seems to hint that the Monad existed prior to the current iteration of reality and remembers what came before.
So… How does this work? On one hand, souls are described as temporary units of self-determining quintessence that are constantly created and destroyed, and on the other hand, they are described as manifestations of a greater (possibly timeless) entity with its own mysterious goals, almost akin to the Force in Star Wars.
Both are cool concepts, but they seem mutually exclusive, at least on the surface.
Maybe the Monad is the source of quintessence, or at least its self-aware aspect.
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It's basically canon that Pharasma predate the current universe that contains Golarion, Hell, the First World, the Plane of Water, etc. She was specifically the lone survivor of the previous universe.
She's set up the whole system of "souls are how we recycle potentiality to resits the corrosive influence of chaos to break everything down into undifferentiated sludge" since that's probably how the last universe ended and she's trying to prolong this universe as long as possible.
So it's possible that there's some superstructure that contains both this universe, the previous universe, the universe before that, and will contain the next universe. It's just inaccessible to anybody living in this universe (except possibly Pharasma or someone in possession of something Pharasma has.)
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Was there starfinder equivalent of this thread?
I sometimes rarely spot examples of writers assuming that outsiders return to their plane upon defeat when pathfinder canon has always been "outsiders die if they aren't summoned to a plane, their body then rots into quintessence that leaks back into their plane" with only rakshasas and asuras being sort of immortals.
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I assume by "if they aren't summoned to a plane" you mean if they're not a result of a Summon X spell - all others, wehther they arrived by gate, walking, bus, bicycle, long term bargaining spell, or ritual die for good if their body is destroyed.
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Pathfinder Lost Omens Firebrands page 48 last paragraph
"Garnering more support among Tessa's Free Captains will require doing a few favors for that cantakerous lot,
and Shensen is contemplating which of her Ravens might travel to RIDDLEPORT to pursue negotiations there."
Should it be Port Peril or Quent which are in the Shackles?
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Pathfinder Lost Omens Firebrands page 48 last paragraph
"Garnering more support among Tessa's Free Captains will require doing a few favors for that cantakerous lot,
and Shensen is contemplating which of her Ravens might travel to RIDDLEPORT to pursue negotiations there."Should it be Port Peril or Quent which are in the Shackles?
Maybe not - if the point is to "garner[] support among [the] Free Captains," picking a port far away from Fairwind's center of power (and also Shensen's, that is, it's neutral ground), but which Free Captains might otherwise visit (they certainly aren't tied to the Shackles, that's part of the point of having a sailing ship), isn't necessarily a bad idea.
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This isn’t so much a canon conflict as it is a canon implication. Maybe the Paizo Staff have fully made note of this but, I figured I should bring it up just in case.
The Forsaken and Caligni
In 1E there were seven types of Caligni (Caller, Creeper, Dancer, Empath, Slayer, Stalker, & Vanguard [aka Champion]). All but the Empath have appeared in 2E thus far. There also happens to be seven Forsaken demigods (Enkaar, Eyes That Watch, Grasping Iovett, Husk, Lady Razor, Reshmit, & Thalaphyrr Martyr-Minder).
This may have been a happy accident, but if it was intended or not, it feels like the 7 types of Caligni and the 7 Forsaken demigods hold a lot more lore than what we have seen so far. I would love to see the connections between the 7 and 7 explored and have the lore of both the Caligni and Forsaken further enriched. On a personal note, I also hope that the Forsaken are slightly rebranded so that they are not all evil. I get the impression that they are evil because “Shadow Plane” which doesn’t make a lot of sense because the Shadow Plane is not an evil plane, but that may just be me.
And just for fun, if each of the Forsaken did have a greater influence on shaping one of the 7 types of Caligni, may guess as to which Forsaken connects to which Caligni type is below.
Caller = Husk
Creeper = Grasping Iovett
Dancer = Enkaar
Empath = Eyes That Watch
Slayer = Lady Razor
Stalker = Reshmit
Vanguard (Champion) = Thalaphyrr
Also, I think this is more of a retcon, but in the 1e it's mentioned that the River Kingdoms are very fertile, and that it's other factors that make farming hard. However, in the World Guide it's mentioned that much of the land is "non-arable" and "impossible to cultivate", something supported by the Travel Guide mentioning that overhunting regularly occurs due to shortages in food, making the problem worse. Is this correct?
Not sure about the first part of your comment, but the second one seems correct. Being "non arable" basically mean that farming is impossible, and 1e lore already said "despite being fertile, farming is very hard here", which is basically another way to say "non arable".
A fertile land basically mean that it's bountifull and that life is very present here. But the life in question might simply be completely incompatible with farming in general. Swamps tend to be very vivid ecosystems, but they're hardly a place to grow crops. And since the river kingdoms are a very (very) swampy place, their description as "fertile but non arable" seems fine.
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Here is minor one I realized: Lost Omen Character Guide's npc statblocks claim that "Each order of Hellknights is led by a powerful paravicar, a general in charge of dictating the order’s tactics and the administration of its resources."
When paravicar is simply leader of order's signifers. From path of hellknight:
Lictor: A general of a Hellknight order.
Vicarius: A spellcasting leader of a Hellknight order
(rarely used).
Master/Mistress of Blades: A colonel of a Hellknight
order, equal in rank to a paravicar.
Paravicar: A leader of a Hellknight order’s signifers,
equal in rank to a master of blades.
Paralictor: A high-ranking Hellknight officer, similar
to a major.
Maralictor: A mid-level Hellknight officer, similar to a
lieutenant. Maralictors with titular concerns or duties—
such as the common arms-maralictors, field-maralictors,
and gate-maralictors—are of lesser rank.
Hellknight: Rank-and-file knights.
Signifer: A Hellknight arcane or divine spellcaster.
Armiger: A Hellknight in training; a Hellknight squire.
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It's basically canon that Pharasma predate the current universe that contains Golarion, Hell, the First World, the Plane of Water, etc. She was specifically the lone survivor of the previous universe.
She's set up the whole system of "souls are how we recycle potentiality to resits the corrosive influence of chaos to break everything down into undifferentiated sludge" since that's probably how the last universe ended and she's trying to prolong this universe as long as possible.
So it's possible that there's some superstructure that contains both this universe, the previous universe, the universe before that, and will contain the next universe. It's just inaccessible to anybody living in this universe (except possibly Pharasma or someone in possession of something Pharasma has.)
or some treasure in Asmodeus' vaults.
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It's basically canon that Pharasma predate the current universe that contains Golarion, Hell, the First World, the Plane of Water, etc. She was specifically the lone survivor of the previous universe.
...
Not quite the lone survivor.
The Twilight Pitri Manasaputras are also from the previous multiverse.
Similar to the highest caste of pitris, twilight pitris are manasaputras whose existence predates the current multiverse. Unlike the solar pitris, these creatures started their path to enlightenment in the preceding multiverse, not some more ancient one. During that indescribable existence, twilight pitris were mortals who ascended to the ranks of manus. Surviving the natural end of their native reality, they endured and were incarnated into the current multiverse as this higher caste of manasaputras.
The Solar Pitri Manasaputras have all survived the death of at least one previous multiverse.
Each solar pitri is the embodiment of a soul that lived thousands— if not millions—of incarnations in at least one other multiverse that existed prior to the creation of the current one.
(All of that would seem to suggest that the Logos has also survived previous universes — perhaps all previous universes.)
The Windsong Testaments suggest that Yog-Sothoth is a kind of counterpart to Pharasma and so it might also be a survivor of one or more previous multiverses.
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It's basically canon that Pharasma predate the current universe that contains Golarion, Hell, the First World, the Plane of Water, etc. She was specifically the lone survivor of the previous universe.
...Not quite the lone survivor.
The Twilight Pitri Manasaputras are also from the previous multiverse.
Similar to the highest caste of pitris, twilight pitris are manasaputras whose existence predates the current multiverse. Unlike the solar pitris, these creatures started their path to enlightenment in the preceding multiverse, not some more ancient one. During that indescribable existence, twilight pitris were mortals who ascended to the ranks of manus. Surviving the natural end of their native reality, they endured and were incarnated into the current multiverse as this higher caste of manasaputras.The Solar Pitri Manasaputras have all survived the death of at least one previous multiverse.
Each solar pitri is the embodiment of a soul that lived thousands— if not millions—of incarnations in at least one other multiverse that existed prior to the creation of the current one.(All of that would seem to suggest that the Logos has also survived previous universes — perhaps all previous universes.)
The Windsong Testaments suggest that Yog-Sothoth is a kind of counterpart to Pharasma and so it might also be a survivor of one or more previous multiverses.
The manasaputras are… interesting. They seem to follow different rules altogether, compared to other reincarnating beings.
If I remember correctly, reincarnating souls either return to the Prime Material Plane on their own before ever entering the River of Souls, or they are sent back from the Boneyard by Pharasma or her courts. Either way, even reincarnating beings will eventually be properly judged and become petitioners just like everyone else. When that happens, they are subject to the normal process of dissolution, and the soulstuff eventually returns to the Positive Energy plane as unaligned quintessence.
However… Manasaputras are specifically described as being reborn in the positive energy plane, as a merger of new souls and “the potential of those who have learned from lifetimes of reincarnation”. Does that mean that their souls go through the entire cycle of life and death without completely breaking down? That might not actually be all that surprising since they can apparently survive the death of an entire multiverse.
The Logos entity that the Manasaputras are communicating with is strongly hinted to be the Monad, which is interesting since this entity also seems to have been involved in setting up the cycle of souls. At least it seems to have tasked the jyoti with their guardianship. Maybe it wasn’t all Pharasma’s idea after all (or maybe she was being manipulated somehow).
It doesn't quite add up, but I suspect this isn’t a canon conflict, so much as a hint that there is more to the River of Souls and the multiverse (multi-multiverse?) than the mortals (and possibly even the gods) of Golarion know.
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OK, here's something I'm confused about. The wiki entry on the Eternal Emperor gives the impression that it was the dominant religion almost everywhere in Lung Wa, and that it was only after the fall of Lung Wa that people in the Successor States converted to the worship of deities. The Player's Guide for Season of Ghosts (set very soon after the fall of Lung Wa) gives the impression that the worship of various deities is perfectly mainstream. Was there a retcon here, or am I just misunderstanding something?
Edit: The Player's Guide even says, "One of Lung Wa’s chief concerns when they first expanded into Willowshore was to reduce the likelihood of an undead uprising. They solved it by building a cathedral to Pharasma."
I assume that the worship of deities has been a thing that was done in hiding. Bit like Desna worship in Nidal. And when the Lung Wa fell, it gave freedom for other deities to be worshipped.
But perhaps we get answers in Tian Xia world guide.
Creative Director
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OK, here's something I'm confused about. The wiki entry on the Eternal Emperor gives the impression that it was the dominant religion almost everywhere in Lung Wa, and that it was only after the fall of Lung Wa that people in the Successor States converted to the worship of deities. The Player's Guide for Season of Ghosts (set very soon after the fall of Lung Wa) gives the impression that the worship of various deities is perfectly mainstream. Was there a retcon here, or am I just misunderstanding something?
Edit: The Player's Guide even says, "One of Lung Wa’s chief concerns when they first expanded into Willowshore was to reduce the likelihood of an undead uprising. They solved it by building a cathedral to Pharasma."
Dominant religion ≠ only religion. Other faiths being persecuted is/was more a Po Li thing than an everywhere thing.
And in a "backwater" (as it was regarded by Lung Wa) like Willowshore, things got fuzzy and older religions continued to be practiced. In this particular case, the construction of a cathedral to Pharasma was built/financed by Lung Wa for 2 primary reasons—to appeal to local longstanding traditions among a populace that was already marginalized and deemed a "backwater", but also because Pharasma's influence (and that of her faith) is understood to be a potent tool against undead and the spread of undeath.
In Willowshore, as in many parts of Shenmen and other "fringe" areas on the outskirts of the Lung Wa empire where the empire's influence wasn't as overwhelming, other religions were more common.
After the fall of Lung Wa, these old ways came back strong.
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The Qadiran city of Shadun was destroyed during the simultaneous eruptions of two volcanoes. This is fully detailed in Artifacts and Legends page 46 and with additional details in Qadira, Jewel of the East page 52. Unfortunately, no date is given in either source. However, in Qadira, Jewel of the East on page 6, details are provided on a massive earthquake that rocked Qadira in 2920. Did the twin eruptions of the Volcanoes also cause the earthquake of 2920? The eruptions and earthquake certainly seem like the one may have caused the other, but they could also have been separate events. Clarifying the date for the destruction of Shadun would be helpful.