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Ironically, I think LE crusader god that actually acts like how fandom stereotypical paladins act would be instantly more popular because people have weird way of hyping up LE villains as more honest(and thus better because to some people honesty is automatically highest virtue ^^;) than LG paladins :pHeh, there's an interesting thought. What does the opposite of Iomedae look like? Or rather, what would Iomedae look like if in an aternate universe instead of a Paladin/Champion in life, she had instead been a servant of Asmodeus instead of Aroden and when she ascended became the exemplar for Hellknights instead? Or if a Hellknight of Asmodeus went through roughly equivalent events and then took the Test of the Starstone, reasoning that if Paladins/Champions get their exemplar in Iomedae then why not them? The Order of the Godclaw worship Iomedae as part of their pentumvirate, but what if there was a far more singular patron?
Oh, I have pretty good idea of that from homebrewing bad guys for my homebrew after being inspired by "I really want to use wheel archon without it being good aligned in this homebrew setting" x'D I think what I came up is pretty much about twisted understanding of "common good".
Aka its military religion where you are "evil" if you aren't willing to join the community or are perceived to be threat to it, but religions followers frame this invasion as "preemptive defense". Or alternatively, its if Dameritosh from starfinder claimed to be good.
Starfinder Senior Developer
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Just want to say that all of this is brilliant - thank you for sharing it! Your insights almost make me wish she could have CN followers, but I don't know that she can be rehabilitated like that at this point. For a similar option, I think of the obscure Iblydan hero-god Iapholi, a half-fiend human believed to be the reincarnation of an ancient avenging Mythic harpy , who's a figure of "monstrous acceptance" seeking peace between 'monsters' and humanoids.
...man, I want to see Iblydos in detail, and not just because it feels like my best chance for official playable Minotaurs.
Oh hey, same here!
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Recycled from a response I gave in the Pathfinder Discord server:
The first list are divinities I enjoy because I've worked on them.
LG: Tsukiyo is far and away my favorite LG deity, and he’s a major contender for my favorite, period. I really appreciate his showing that there’s no one “right” mindset to doing good, and that being good involves demonstrating patience for those who mainstream society misunderstands or unjustly demonizes.
NG: I will happily tell anyone who asks about Chinostes (Pathfinder #144). The Iblydan hero-gods have provided such wonderful flexibility in bucking alignment expectations and divine expectations, and Chinostes’s dual alignment and feuding cults create a narrative I would adore playing out in a module.
CG: Eh? What's this chaotic good thing?
LN: Give me any of the Primal Inevitables, each of which finds simple pleasure in studying and maintaining the multiverse’s peace in their own way. Valmallos and Otolmens are among my favorites, especially because Valmallos speaks so strongly to my askance glances at sorcerers’ natural magic while asking “Okay, but you can cast spells responsibly, right?” Meanwhile, I see gods (especially chaotic-aligned gods) chortling at how well the multiverse conveniently functions, all while Otolmens does her corrective calculations and stage-whispers “You. Ignorant. Fools.”
N: It is such a cruel toss-up between the hero-gods Aerekostes and Drokalion. One’s an intelligent sword that yes, grants spells, and also sometimes loans itself to aspiring heroes. The other is a divine lion with roughly a 3 Intelligence and a zealous cult that thinks it’s glorious when their god chases and potentially eats them.
CN: Acavna. She’s a neat take on CN, and I enjoy her Earthfall narrative and place in the Azlanti pantheon. Incorporating her herald into Basrakal was really fun.
LE: Asuras as Paizo presents them are my jam. Just the sound of each asura’s self-righteous backhanding of the gods who created them through negligence and mishandling is a beautiful sensation, and asuras are a way for me to explore and celebrate the foibles of Golarion’s divinities. Maeha is likely my favorite.
NE: Working with Adam Daigle, Mark Moreland, and Linda Zayas-Palmer on planning the Azlanti deities was among the most fulfilling meetings I’ve had at Paizo, and I quite adore some of those divinities as Adam ultimately fleshed them out in his article in Pathfinder #123. While I love Scal’s fallout with Earthfall, I’m mostly here for Ulon and his cult of conspiracies-within-conspiracies-wait-can-we-trust-each-other-even?!?
CE: I find Chaotic Evil distasteful overall. I will, however, uphold the righteous goal of Ongalte to kill every other hero-god in the vain hope of restoring cyclopean glory.
———
Then for deities I enjoy but haven't worked on.
LG: I really enjoy Vildeis’s no-pulled-punches take on evil, and her reckless devotion to purification feels like a very honest portrayal of the murder-zeal of so many paladins. Just overall, the presentation of LG as an almost alien “Whoa, calm down there” degree of holiness is intriguing, even I’d be off-put by it in real life.
NG: Soralyon intrigues me. I really appreciate his shtick, especially in how it manifests in Magnimar’s monuments and their latent magic.
CG: Keltheald gets my vote. I really like his pure dedication to exploration without any pretense or preachiness.
LN: Alseta has always intrigued me, especially in her dominion of thresholds. Her very low-key approach nonetheless provides a sense of sacred structure to any transformation or transition, and I like it.
N: It’s hard to say no to Nethys. I enjoy his ambiguous origins as a mortal, his dual nature, and his eccentric indifference to what his followers do so long as they do it with magic. That sort of mixed messaging inspires all sorts of rival sects and feuds—none of which are “right” yet all of which make for wonderful narrative.
CN: I love what James Case did in presenting Hei Feng. The divine tengu is utterly endearing yet fearsome, all while straddling the line between indomitable strength and sheepish fallibility.
LE: Dispater’s a delight. Not only does his home life spin off into delightful narratives, but he rules over one of my favorite cities in the Outer Planes and does so with soft-spoken style.
NE: Zyphus has a sinister pureness. Yes, he’s a mistake. Yes, he’s evil. But his followers are so delightfully intent on creatively inflicting misfortune rather than, say, donning the closest skin-mask and whipping a knife around. No, for Zyphus, death is an art form, and I can see him holding up Olympics-style score cards whenever a PC dies to foolish circumstances.
CE: Ragadahn is an intriguing angle on Chaotic Evil, in part because he has to play within the society of the First World (which I think is what makes him palatable for me). Ragadahn’s kinda your opinionated, aging uncle who rants unexpectedly at Thanksgiving, and tradition dictates you just let him talk himself hoarse before he eats a slice of pie and passes out to the football game. “I’m the lord of all dragons! I invented dragons! Kids these days don’t got no respect! I’m the god of all the oceans—even the ones I’ve never been in! I’m an uncontrollable force of destruction, you hear? My symbol’s the spiral, and I invented geometry, and I’ll destroy geometry if I damn well please!” // “Shhhh, shhhh, yes Ragadahn, you’re very fearsome,”
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Me: Surely, it'll be easy to pick some favorite deities!
[Later]
Me, stumbling around, juggling more holy symbols than Benny from The Mummmy: Too...many....
Of the core deities, Desna's probably my favorite. The fact that she's benevolent but also Deeply Weird and kind of eldritch and aloof in some ways is very cool.
Milani's a classic favorite of mine too; I love the "freedom and revolution" angle" but also that she's a relatively new goddess trying to adapt, like Iomedae's less rules-oriented younger sister.
I've also got a fondness for most of the Eldest, but especially the Lost Prince and Count Ranalc as the most mysterious among them. The Lost Prince's dichotomy of offering comfort to the lost and depressed while (seemingly) remaining so himself has a delightfully tragic flair to it, and the whole mystery surrounding Ranalc and his fate is fascinating to me.
I wouldn't want to worship Vildeis myself, but she fascinates me. I played a warpriest of hers in 1E who eventually ended up losing her connection because she was starting to actually find happiness (I portrayed Vildeis revoking her powers as basically an act of mercy, an "I've taken you as far as you can, poor mortal, now be free" kind of thing.)
Kelinahat hasn't appeared in PF2 yet as far as I know, and all that was detailed about her in 1E was a tiny stub: "Kelinahat is an archon empyreal lord of spies, stealth, and the gathering of intelligence who is also known as She of Ebon Wings. Her followers use guile, subterfuge, and shadow magic to break into evil bastions and return with valuable information." I love the concept of a good-aligned deity of spies, since normally that ends up in more neutral or even evil territory. (Shh I like spies what)
And then there's Grandmother Spider and Besmara and Ydajisk and---
...okay, I should probably stop. :-)
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I'd be careful now...we're treading dangerously close to reviving the ancient "paladins of Asmodeus" discourse! *scare chord*
** spoiler omitted **
I understand why the Pathfinder devs want a tighter leash on deity Alignment, but I did really enjoy the (now-decanonized) sect that revered Asmodeus as a LG goddess of legality and contract-writing. Variable interpretations of deities is so much fun… but it fits something like Eberron’s dubiously-real gods a little better.
I don't think there's a problem with a LE deity being revered as the overlord of legality and contracts, but there's a big problem with that deity being Asmodeus who is the 1B to Rovagug's 1A Big Bad of the entire setting. Like Dispater, Mephistopheles, and Mammon are all vastly less objectionable than their boss is.
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Of the Hero-Gods of Iblydos that I know of, I have a weird fondness for Pharimia despite her getting so little detail. A half-elf demi-god futilely trying to get the city-states to put their differences aside, and is specifically unaligned so ANYONE can worship her. Something about that says Druid to me, someone who doesn't "get" the internecine politics of Iblydos that stop the islands uniting against Ousmariku or just for common benefit and wouldn't care even if she did. Would love to see a story, either an eventual Mythic adventure or published fiction, where Pharimia is trying to get the band back together for one last job against all odds to end Ousmariku before the Myth-Speaking tradition ends once and for all and nobody is left for when Aelyosos' tribute inevitably comes up short.
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Nobody's going to care if there is a heretical cult of Lamashtu worshipers who skew CG and create secret orphanages for differently-able children to grow and learn to accept themselves and push back against a society that doesn't accept them
By "care," do you mean "object?" Because there is a sizable contingent of people that would chorus "based" and consider this hypothetical cult near and dear to their hearts, and rightly so.
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snip!
Chinostes, Drokalion, and Iapholi were my standout favorites of that article, which is still one of my favorite tidbits hiding in the huge 1e back catalogue. All the hints of where Iblydos breaks from being pop culture Hellenes for proper Golarion weirdness are SO tantalizing.
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Arshea, kazutal, Desna, Saranrae, Shelyn, and Tuskiyo all are favorites of ours. There are others, but we would be here all day.
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Arshea, kazutal, Desna, Saranrae, Shelyn, and Tuskiyo all are favorites of ours. There are others, but we would be here all day.
I think being here all day is the point. What I love to hear is why someone gushes over a particular deity in depth. What sparks your joy?
One deity that I all but ignored until recently was Pharasma. A goddess of death had no interest to me, until I realized that Pharasma was not just the goddess of death, but the goddess of the whole River of Souls. Birth, death and all the processes in between are of great interest to her, and anything that interferes with the river's flow is anathema. That's why she is a goddess of death that cannot stand the undead -- they stand against the natural order, and prevent souls from completing their journeys.
I appreciate that Pharasma is flawed. She was a goddess of prophecy and fate and now lives in the time of Lost Omens where neither works as it should. Pharasma first came alive for me as a deity when I was writing the Artokus Kirran section for Lost Omens Legends, and discovered that one of the stories about Artokus was that he'd gotten a special dispensation from a local priestess of Pharasma who was worried about the Thuvian economy. The dispensation was offered in part because the day of Artokus's eventual death was pre-ordained... Someday he would die, and sun orchid elixir would die with him. But then prophecy broke, and now Artokus has lived far past the date he was supposed to have died upon. Yet Pharasma and her minions still abide by the agreement made so long ago by that local priestess.
I love how complex she is, and how she rewards further study.
Hmm
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Arshea, kazutal, Desna, Saranrae, Shelyn, and Tuskiyo all are favorites of ours. There are others, but we would be here all day.I think being here all day is the point. What I love to hear is why someone gushes over a particular deity in depth. What sparks your joy?
You are right. I think we will start with the ones we have listed here. and then maybe share some others.
Arshea- Where do I begin with them. Well being someone with a very fluid understanding of the self Arshea being a champion of self expression and freedom spoke to me. Arshea also being a an entity of sexuality and exploring such things and embracing it was something fairly unique when I first discovered them. Good aligned entities with a similar portfolio are often more chaste, dealing with concepts of beauty, family, and love. Lust is more often portrayed as sinful and this either the realm of villainous tempters, or wanton chaotic neutral types. Queer love is often mixed into this no matter how chaste it maybe. So in media we often see the freedom of being oneself, embracing who you are and what you are desire as a sort of self empowered fall from grace, damn it all. And while I get the fantasy, the catharsis that may bring it doesn't always sit right with me. And that's where Arshea comes in, a holy being that says self-expression, self-discovery, pleasure and lust can not only be good but holy. It is something truly special to me.
Kazutal- Whole aesthetic is gorgeous. She is a a very striking character , I am particularly a big fan of her Orc portrayal in the Mwangi Expanse book. Kazutal as a fierce matriarch who focus on protecting and expressing love for what you care for is truly fantastic. (love is gonna be a common theme here) Her stance against slavery, her desire to help Arazni. Her inspiration from indigenous Latin American cultures, make me feel seen. The fact that she used to be a goddess focus on conquering and expansion but has changed and evolved also adds a lovely amount of nuance to her.
Desna, Saranrae, and Shelyn- To give a quick superficial explanation of all 3 at once. I am hella gay and they are my OT3.
Now to expand a bit. Each of them deal with a sort of major regret, something that drives them and reveals truths of each of them.
Desna curiosity and wonder is inspiring but also let to her releasing The Gossamer king from his cocoon.
Shelyn's loss of her father, and her struggle with her Brother. Her desire to not give up on him, which had led to an eternal conflict. It shows her endless love. The fact that this often extends to how their clergy interact with each other is extremely fascinating.
Saranrae's eternal devotion to the concept of redemption is so strong because she had slipped and let her wrath fuel her when she smite the settlement of Gormuz. She walks the path because she knows what unrestrained wrath could lead to.
Saranrae is also extremely important to us because she is the favorite of our partner, who we love dearly and who introduced us to tabletop.
Desna was who my Tiefling Witch in Wrath of the Righteous worshiped, and well Desna story in that is pretty significant.
Polima my fleshwarp champion of Shelyn found a family after her creator rejected her. (She was basically a Frankenstein monster type character) reflecting my own desire to protect and keep my found family.
Lastly Tsukiyo. As someone who is neurodivergent, who is part of a collection of many in one form. Tsukiyo makes me feel seen, a deity that advocates for those who society might forget or not understand. Who says we have the right to be the advocates in our own health and understanding of who we are. That is extremely important to me.I also think he looks really cool.
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Wow. Neat thread. Wish I had found it at the start! I'm going to follow the alignment bucket grouping because easy.
LG - I've really liked Falayna a lot. It is really rare to see a character written specifically from the intersection of "warrior values" and "femininity".
NG - Toss-up between Kurgess and Arshea. I like Kurgess's "improve yourself, bro I got you" energy, and I'm personally really invested in positive sexual expression and openness as sacred characteristics.
CG - Cayden is my bestie. Freedom fighter? Love it. Friend to all? Love it. Potentially derped his way into divinity and just kept on doing his thing? Love it love it love it. Honorable mention goes to the Black Butterfly for all the reasons keftiu mentioned above.
LN - Probably Irori? I dunno. I find legalism to be one of the least interesting mindsets and there is just so much legalism in LN.
N - Nethys and Shyka are my picks here. Both shattered in their own way. Both brilliant in their own way. Manifests entirely uniquely between them, tho. I like the trope of "ope you saw too much rip your mind". Big cosmic horror fan.
CN - The CN bucket has three big ones that I just love: Calistria, Besmara, and Nocticula. I like Calistria for a lot of the reasons I like Arshea/Falayna but the "sacred revenge" angle is especially interesting to me. That said, I'd love an AP or something that gave Calistria some more dimension/screen-time. Besmara is just a cool af pirate. I mean come on. She rules. Nocticula is up there with Cayden for gods I just really love. How 2e handled her transition into divinity, her semi-adoption of New Thassilon/Sorshen (another thing I want to learn more about!), and her story of self-transformation and rejection of the toxic elements in her life (even those she created herself).
LE - This is gonna be weird, relative to what I said for LN. The legalism of LE REALLY appeals to me because it is how I see the reality of legalism. It is ultimately selfish. Also... I just really, REALLY like fiends of all kinds. I was a goth kid. Sue me. Asmodeus as the ultimate representation of The Prince, while also being affable in his own way, and I really want to know if/how he leverages what he did with Rovagug to influence the world and other gods into the present. I like Zon-Kuthon because goth kid and cosmic horror. His relationship with Shelyn is fascinating and, again as keftiu said, the spirit wolf father thing is really neat. Achaekek is the last one here because I love assassins and am especially interested in those that are backed by a strict code or belief. His unclear and shifting backstory is also really interesting. I'd love to learn more about him, but I'm not sure we should. I dunno.
NE - A lot to love here. Norgorber is really cool. The Starstone, his multiple aspects, assassins remain cool, I like spy stuff. So much to love in one mysterious package. Urgathoa is really cool because I love the undead and the story of how she rejected Pharasma's design to continue existing is neat. Arazni's tragic story is so fascinating and interesting. In the same way that Nocticula's story of self-transformation really speaks to me, there's something similar happening here with Arazni. I also want to see her and Iomadae sort out their stuff, if even by proxy (adventurers).
CE - This is weird, right? I generally think that a lot of CE stuff is incredibly unnuanced. They do whatever their "kill whatever I feel like" thing is in whatever way they do it. And maybe that's fine. It just doesn't generally appeal to me from a character perspective. I like Nyarlathotep as an aspect of corruption and the rest of the Old/Outer/Great-Old-Gods as a contrast to the more knowable gods of the setting. I really like Lamashtu's positioning as demon-god-mother and I have a character concept for a CN goblin who worships her as Nana. That's not to say the rest of the CE (and particularly Demon Lord) set aren't cool or fun, I just think they serve best as backdrop or van art.
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Call me basic, but I really like a lot of the core deities.
Sarenrae is a classic archetype (how many good sun gods must there be out there?) but she comes across as kindly when she needs to be and firm when she needs to be, which is a difficult line to walk for a Good deity. It's also hard to not like a god that gives you Fireball.
Shelyn is just wonderful and I love the interplay of her church with Zon-Kuthon.
Cayden Cailean is just a fun concept and lends himself very well to adventurer worshipers.
I admire the writing of many of the Evil deities as well. There are reasons that a character could turn to Urgathoa, Lamashtu, Zon-Kuthon, or Asmodeus without being capital E Evil. (At least at first. That's how they get you.)
I have a certain weakness for LE martial types, folks like Diomazul and General Susumu. I'd kill for the chance to play a very classic Tyrant someday.
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I have a certain weakness for LE martial types, folks like Diomazul and General Susumu. I'd kill for the chance to play a very classic Tyrant someday.
Diomazul is so fun.
"am snek. leave lone. go way. fine. you bugged me. now i will ANNIHILATE YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY LINE AND THE MEMORY OF YOUR NAME WILL BE A CURSE!"
EDIT: Your tyrant comment inspired me to spec out a character.
Surya grew up an orphan in a monastery to Irori. A ganzi elf, he is an exercise in self-loathing. Rejecting what he sees as his soft features and the chaos inherent to his heritage, he chooses to make it everyone else's problem. Projecting a calm, if stony, exterior, Surya knows that fury lies underneath. He has turned to Diomazul to help him master his rage and the chaos in his soul.
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Gorum, in his PF1 incarnation of the Will you fight ? deity. Who allowed for CG Clerics.
I loved Gorum from the start for his being Totally Not Crom. An uninterested god whose attention you might get, for good or bad, through glorious battle. And who could be seen as a role-model for self-sufficiency.
Even better after I mapped him to Marvel's Ares when the latter became a protagonist who was so wonderfully CN.
And yes, the Will you fight ? motto resonated with me. For all those who will prefer to go down with blazing guns than surrender.
I am sad this Gorum is no longer officially available.
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Zyphus. Life is meaningless.Death is meaningless. Meaning is meaningless. I really want to play a life Oracle of Zyphus who tries not to let anyone die in an intentional or purposeful manner. After all, such deaths just keep feeding Pharasma in the bone yard.
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Going for an obscure one here: I'd eat up any further info on Kalekot, who seems to be a sort-of patron to the Goloma without being one himself. Fear as a weapon for the weak to protect themselves from the strong and cruel is a *really* interesting angle on being a "spooky god."
What's up with the Goloma? Why does he have the Wyrmkin domain? Why is his art so good? A part of me hasn't stopped being fascinated with Kalekot since the Mwangi book released.
It's also worth saying that he sings as a potential Inquisitor deity, which is a common thread for most of my favorite gods.
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One god I can't help but be drawn to is a psychopomp usher, the Pale Horse. First off, his title of The Lash and the Plough is just so damn cool. His domain of the "pain and reward of servitude" while not being something I personally enjoy, makes for excellent character material.
My most religious character I'm playing at the moment is a scaleheart warpriest of Sobek in a game of Skull and Shackles, and roleplaying a lazy crocodile man who the rest of the crew has to rouse into a reptilian battle-fury is a ton of fun, and coming up with ways to play the blunt and straightforward faith of Sobek has been really fun too.
Kurgess is also a favorite of mine, and is the god with probably the closest viewpoint to my own IRL.
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Full deity? That's tough and I bounce around a bunch, so I list the main favs.
Erastil, Irori, Iomedae, Shelyn, Cayden Cailean, annnnd, MAYBE Desna. My love of them pretty directly linked with how much RP I've gotten with characters religiously invested in them.
Iomedae being the one my favorite character worships, yet I never get to play that character, ironically.
Erastil because he brings along a very pure of heart and good 'traditionalist' type of grit to the morality. Even going so far as to 'gently encourage' partnerships that produce offspring over those that don't. Like as good aligned as possible while still having a bit of what the audience would view as 'bigotry' to him.
Cayden Cailean is just the perfect god for any fun-loving adventurer. Easily fits onto any character you wanna add some pizazz to.
Now, Demi God's? Oh boy.
Ng the Hooded (N) Eldest. Having a homebrew where he and Norgorber are spatting over a true 'God of Secrets'. Having Ng be rather upset with 'the pretender' as he does NOT know his identity, but has an undeniable feeling that he did as some point.
Ragathiel (LG) Empyreal Lord. I feel Paizo loves this guy a lot too, putting him on book covers and giving him his own prestige classes and what have you.
But, gods I WANT to like more but don't?
Chaldira (CG) Demigod. She's halfling themed, I LOVE halflings, she's good aligned, I like good aligned gods. But her visual design just isn't what I like at all, and her portfolio is... Just not doing anything for me. Luck? Obvious. BATTLE... And she is just out there in no armor and a short sword like Bilbo, who would NEVER be described in a way involving 'battle'. And mischief, personally not my thing. She's also VERY much the +CHA type of halfling from first edition, and just doesn't mesh with the +WIS Halflings of 2nd ed.
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Cayden Cailean, of course. He is somewhat reminiscent of the Man in the Shack,
And, I do second Kirby‘s motion to have some pizzaz (olives, capers, and anchovies preferably) with the beer.
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...
Ng the Hooded (N) Eldest. Having a homebrew where he and Norgorber are spatting over a true 'God of Secrets'. Having Ng be rather upset with 'the pretender' as he does NOT know his identity, but has an undeniable feeling that he did as some point.
...
...How did I never notice the N(or)g(orber) connection before? There's some real conspiracy theory investigator character concept there. madman who fully worships 'Ororber, the Missing Piece', a god they've made up in their own mind completely as the connection between Norgorber and Ng.
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The more a person learns about Pharasma, the more you realize just how interesting she is!
I remember a thread years ago asking "which god is the most powerful" and on of the developers came in and flat out said that out of the main 20 in the main setting, Pharasma IS THE STRONGEST!
But what I always found more interesting is that yes, Pharasma is THE God of Death. But she is also the Goddess of Birth and of Midwives.
It is very heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, that Pharasma is a/the only survivor from the previous incarnation of the Universe. Which means she was here from the VERY BEGINNING! While calling her the mother of the Universe would (probably) be wrong, Pharasma could be considered the midwife of the universe. She watched the Universe be born, and will watch it die. Then either one of her minions will become the midwife for the next Universe, or Pharasma will watch/help/etc the next universe be born.
She is honestly amazing!
As for MY personal favorite God...
It seems every time I try to play a Paladin/Cleric of Iomedae, I act more like a worshiper of Sarenrae.
I'm fairly basic so Erastril warms my heart. Preaching the importance of family and community, coupled with a focus on practical skill learning is my jam. He's a "we're stronger together" type god I can get behind (at least his 2e version that doesn't specify a concrete view on what a nuclear family is).
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It is very heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, that Pharasma is a/the only survivor from the previous incarnation of the Universe. Which means she was here from the VERY BEGINNING! While calling her the mother of the Universe would (probably) be wrong, Pharasma could be considered the midwife of the universe. She watched the Universe be born, and will watch it die. Then either one of her minions will become the midwife for the next Universe, or Pharasma will watch/help/etc the next universe be born.
Interestingly, there's a rumor that Zon-Kuthon might have always been Dou-Bral, that ZK was also from the previous universe, and arranged for something in the new universe to be his vessel for his reincarnation. A larva, if you will. Given some of the oddities of the timeline regarding Dou-Bral and Shelyn, I have come to like this theory.
And yet, given what is found in the Dark Tapestry, the DT does seem infinitely older. But it can't be older than the Prime Material plane, which is much younger than the universe, can it?
I can't say I have a true favorite deity, as I have a lot more fun twisting around the meanings of each one.
One of my favorite present PFS characters is an Inquisitor of Razmir (actually Sivanah).
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And yet, given what is found in the Dark Tapestry, the DT does seem infinitely older. But it can't be older than the Prime Material plane, which is much younger than the universe, can it?
As a matter of fact, I believe that before the material universe existed as we know it, there was a vacancy in the centre of the cosmos. The Dark Tapestry could well have existed long before the gods turned their attention to drawing up schematics in the First World, nevermind before they started putting that planning into action.
I don't think there's any lore about this, but in my head I've kind of imagined that the beings of the dark tapestry came from outside the cosmos, that during the moment of inception they managed to infiltrate the void of the material like cosmic parasites.
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And yet, given what is found in the Dark Tapestry, the DT does seem infinitely older. But it can't be older than the Prime Material plane, which is much younger than the universe, can it?As a matter of fact, I believe that before the material universe existed as we know it, there was a vacancy in the centre of the cosmos. The Dark Tapestry could well have existed long before the gods turned their attention to drawing up schematics in the First World, nevermind before they started putting that planning into action.
I don't think there's any lore about this, but in my head I've kind of imagined that the beings of the dark tapestry came from outside the cosmos, that during the moment of inception they managed to infiltrate the void of the material like cosmic parasites.
I like this one too.
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Manasaputras also survived from a previous multiverse (in some cases more than one).
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The first character I ever made was a worshipper of Desna, and I still like her quite a bit. Shelyn is probably my favorite of the core deities, though, because she's just so damn wholesome. Outside the core deities, Arazni and Nocticula are at the top of my list. I've been playing a cleric of Arazni in PFS ever since Gods & Magic came out, and it's been a very interesting tightrope to walk in terms of roleplay and mechanics and the like. She's very relatable in a way that most deities aren't and I like the idea of what she can represent to people even if she doesn't want to.
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I also really like Arazni after learning a bit more about her. Love that she reclaimed her agency, love that she's a goddess that doesn't want to be worshiped, but is still inspiring enough that people will do so anyway. Love that there's space for her to be angry and vengeful about what happened to her. Also, Arazni's Anathema including "insult Arazni" is hilarious.
I just noticed that in 2nd Edition, Arazni doesn't tolerate Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil worshippers, but tolerates Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, and Chaotic Good (in addition to Neutral and Neutral Evil which are held over from 1st Edition).
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Arazni can tolerate you if you adhere to the law, but only if you care more about the law than whether you help others, and not if you're going to use it to hurt people. Meanwhile she doesn't mind you being selfish and hurting people but only if you happen to line right up with her own outlook. Finally, if you just want to break free of the shackles of society without being particularly mean about it, she thinks you're cool.
It's definitely one of the weirdest follower alignment grids, but I actually really like it because it's a snapshot of a deity who is in the middle of trying to figure out who she is now, after being used by the holy knights of the Shining Crusade and the tyrant Geb alike, searching for her own freedom while still also being an undead monster whose base impulses tend to selfishness and consumption.
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Arazni can tolerate you if you adhere to the law, but only if you care more about the law than whether you help others, and not if you're going to use it to hurt people. Meanwhile she doesn't mind you being selfish and hurting people but only if you happen to line right up with her own outlook. Finally, if you just want to break free of the shackles of society without being particularly mean about it, she thinks you're cool.
It's definitely one of the weirdest follower alignment grids, but I actually really like it because it's a snapshot of a deity who is in the middle of trying to figure out who she is now, after being used by the holy knights of the Shining Crusade and the tyrant Geb alike, searching for her own freedom while still also being an undead monster whose base impulses tend to selfishness and consumption.
I think I read somewhere that the alignments allowed are not a choice of the deity but a matter of being sufficiently in synch to be able to channel the deity's divine energies.
Like Asmodeus would love having all kind of devoted Clerics. But he is so completely LE that only LE worshippers can channel his blessings and be his Clerics.
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Arazni can tolerate you if you adhere to the law, but only if you care more about the law than whether you help others, and not if you're going to use it to hurt people. Meanwhile she doesn't mind you being selfish and hurting people but only if you happen to line right up with her own outlook. Finally, if you just want to break free of the shackles of society without being particularly mean about it, she thinks you're cool.
It's definitely one of the weirdest follower alignment grids, but I actually really like it because it's a snapshot of a deity who is in the middle of trying to figure out who she is now, after being used by the holy knights of the Shining Crusade and the tyrant Geb alike, searching for her own freedom while still also being an undead monster whose base impulses tend to selfishness and consumption.
I think I read somewhere that the alignments allowed are not a choice of the deity but a matter of being sufficiently in synch to be able to channel the deity's divine energies.
Like Asmodeus would love having all kind of devoted Clerics. But he is so completely LE that only LE worshippers can channel his blessings and be his Clerics.
Even if that is so, it may not be all of column A or column B. To the extent that a deity chooses their own moral stance, what they allow for follower alignments may still be partly a choice. To have no nongood clergy can be as much because you're a paragon of goodness as a choice to be the kind of good that causes moral ambiguity to bounce off your divine frequency.
Meanwhile I don't think it's exactly true that Asmodeus would take worshippers of any alignment. Speaking of his lay followers who have no divine powers, certainly he desires conformity to his will and faith from creatures if every kind, but when it comes to those chosen to channel his power, I expect his standards of conduct are much much higher, which lends equally to LE whether it's a choice or merely a matter of attunement.
This is a hard question, because there's so many really good deities in Pathfinder. I think it's one of the best parts of the setting/worldbuilding.
If I had to pick just one it would be Sarenrae. I love sun gods and redemption gods so combining both into one package is a guaranteed win for me. Her backstory fighting Rovagug is also very badass.
I would give Sarenrae a favored spot on my list if only she actually did a good job of redeeming things. Both Shelyn and Desna seem to do better in that department -- not a huge number of examples, but at least they have done something. And then Sarenrae seems to have had a quite corrupt church up until 2nd Edition time.
There's a lot of honourary mentions as well. Caiden Cailen is such a cool concept as the "accidental god". Milani is a big one for me since I always love liberators of any kind. And ever since playing the Wrath of the Righteous CRPG I've been a big fan of Nocticula as well. And finally I have to mention Iomadae because I love Paladin gods.
Cayden Cailean is indeed an accidental god . . . and if he had been described as Chaotic Neutral, I'd be fine with that, but he's described as Chaotic Good, yet he promotes drunkenness (although reportedly only up to a point, but still).
Agreed on Milani and Nocticula (hey, she partly redeemed herself), and even Iomedae (she seems to have undergone some redemption of her own after Wrath of the Righteousness).
I think I read somewhere that the alignments allowed are not a choice of the deity but a matter of being sufficiently in synch to be able to channel the deity's divine energies.
Like Asmodeus would love having all kind of devoted Clerics. But he is so completely LE that only LE worshippers can channel his blessings and be his Clerics.
Really? I headcanonned the reverse. Like, asmodeus is so completely LE that he doesn't deem any non LE individual as worthy of weilding his power, from the devil "book of the damned" it seemed logical, the man consider anything non lawfull as an abomination, and anything non evil as a pathway to the non lawfull (and thus an abomination). Pretty sure he doesn't mind about his follower posing as good or neutral individual, or posing as more "morally flexible" than they trully are, but in the end they just have to be lawfull evil.
Also, I thought that sarenrae had pretty recently cut off all true neutral followers from her power (as a reaction to how bad the dawnflower cult had been), wouldn't that be impossible if the deity had no say in who get their power?