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If a 1,000 year old human with the Longevity universal path ability (Mythic Adventures) walked into an antimagic field, would he suddenly die as his old age caught up with him?
With the VAST majority of mythic abilities being supernatural in nature, it seems to me the best way to kill them is to use an antimagic field and a mob with pointy things.
It would be a good way to shut-down a mythic character, no doubt, but that mythic fighter is still a fighter.
Easier would definitely be relative to the main class and how easy it is to kill a regular one under an anti-magic field.
I don't think this is a rules questions so much as, "Hey Mythic abilities are largely Supernatural and as such don't work in an antimagic field, happy hunting!".
The Mythic individual with Longevity just stops aging. The only way an Antimagic Field would kill him is if he was on his last breath right when he gained Longevity. Even then, if he were Tier 9 or 10 then once the Antimagic Sphere was gone, he'd come back like a bad penny.
The Mythic individual with Longevity just stops aging. The only way an Antimagic Field would kill him is if he was on his last breath right when he gained Longevity. Even then, if he were Tier 9 or 10 then once the Antimagic Sphere was gone, he'd come back like a bad penny.
You still continue to age, and you gain all the benefits to your mental ability scores.
You explicitly do continue to age, it is a potential instant kill for a character with Longevity.
That makes sense: That's how aging worked in things like The Magic Goes Away when old characters get into magic-depleted areas.
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If a 1,000 year old human with the Longevity universal path ability (Mythic Adventures) walked into an antimagic field, would he suddenly die as his old age caught up with him?
With the VAST majority of mythic abilities being supernatural in nature, it seems to me the best way to kill them is to use an antimagic field and a mob with pointy things.
But this is also true of non-mythic PCs. Spellcasters, obviously, but martial classes still have magic swords and armor. I'm thinking of the OotS where Varsuvius is fighting the dragon who casts Antimagic field.
Huh. I missed that bit.
It seems odd that a Mythic character can be killed by a mid-level spell when Karzoug (who is decidedly Non-Mythic from what I've heard several times from several people) would be just fine walking into an anti-magic shell. As GM, I'd rule the anti-magic shell would not kill the Mythic character. After all, why would a normal 20th level wizard be immune to this effect?
Fortunately, each GM is able to rule on this as he or she feels fit. After all, that's one of the first rules of Pathfinder: the GM can change rules to fit his or her needs.
But this is also true of non-mythic PCs. Spellcasters, obviously, but martial classes still have magic swords and armor. I'm thinking of the OotS where Varsuvius is fighting the dragon who casts Antimagic field.If a 1,000 year old human with the Longevity universal path ability (Mythic Adventures) walked into an antimagic field, would he suddenly die as his old age caught up with him?
With the VAST majority of mythic abilities being supernatural in nature, it seems to me the best way to kill them is to use an antimagic field and a mob with pointy things.
What are magic swords and armor going to do in an antimagic field? Against someone who has already planned to fight in an antimagic field--not much. At that point it comes down to who is better prepared and has more training (that is, levels).
I suddenly feel like Lex Luthor after beating up Superman.
It's available much sooner (potentially) than the Wizard or Alchemist capstone abilities that aren't suppressed by an antimagic field. On the other hand I was thinking of making a venerable wizard for WotR and toughing it through the first few levels...but that's a somewhat scarier choice now.
RD, you miss my point.
A great many things in the game, especially at high level, are dependent on magic. Including fighters.
Killing them using antimagic field isn't a revelation: its what that spell is FOR.
"Out to slay a lich? Use an antimagic field."
"Out to slay a demon? Use an antimagic field."
****
The other part of what I'm saying is that, because the PCs are also dependent on magic, antimagic field is a double-edged sword. You might take away the the mythic abilities of that Mythic Cyclops, but it's still a big guy with a club, and you just lost 10 points of AC.
To use your Lex Luthor analogy, it'd be like if kryptonite also shut down his battlesuit. Sure, you just took a lot out of superman, but its not exactly a one-sided battle after.
To use your Lex Luthor analogy, it'd be like if kryptonite also shut down his battlesuit. Sure, you just took a lot out of superman, but its not exactly a one-sided battle after.
It still strikes me as silly that a mob with pitchforks could take out a mythic character without too much fuss and, depending on the GMs interpretation of how immortality works with antimagic field, maybe even keep him dead. Sure, a mid-level fighter could take out half the mob with his masterwork gear, and a high-level fighter a small platoon of highly trained professionals while naked, but it just doesn't seem as mythic when mythic can be taken out easily by what amounts to little more than a well-prepared swat team.
EDIT: On second thought, I could totally see a well-prepared Swat team armed with kryptonite taking out Superman.
Against selected adversaries, using Source Severance
gets damn close to said kryptonite... Paizo needs to start editing its spell additions a bit more closely methinks.
Wow. Just...wow.
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What are magic swords and armor going to do in an antimagic field? Against someone who has already planned to fight in an antimagic field--not much. At that point it comes down to who is better prepared and has more training (that is, levels).I suddenly feel like Lex Luthor after beating up Superman.
If it came down to it, my fighter would be the one casting the antimagic field.
None of her feats or skill at arms go away and she's still wearing full plate armor.
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RD, you miss my point.
A great many things in the game, especially at high level, are dependent on magic. Including fighters.
Killing them using antimagic field isn't a revelation: its what that spell is FOR.
"Out to slay a lich? Use an antimagic field."
"Out to slay a demon? Use an antimagic field."****
The other part of what I'm saying is that, because the PCs are also dependent on magic, antimagic field is a double-edged sword. You might take away the the mythic abilities of that Mythic Cyclops, but it's still a big guy with a club, and you just lost 10 points of AC.
To use your Lex Luthor analogy, it'd be like if kryptonite also shut down his battlesuit. Sure, you just took a lot out of superman, but its not exactly a one-sided battle after.
Against selected adversaries, using Source Severance
gets damn close to said kryptonite... Paizo needs to start editing its spell additions a bit more closely methinks.
That spell is an abomination, but that is acutally one of the reasons that I am not subscribed to the companion line. The Spells and feats tend to swing wildly between, useless and broken.
Antimagic field is what, a 6th level spell? With a super-small radius.(And only castable by the people are affected by it most, I should point out.)
What angry mob has 6th level spells? That's not a well-prepared SWAT team. That's like saying 'an angry mob could kill superman, after he's been hit with a nuclear bomb'.
(And once again, since antimagic field is indiscriminate, your swat team is still just going in with shields and billy-clubs, not assault rifles.)
Mobs can pay adventurers to save their town, but they can't afford 1,650gp scroll? I'd be hard pressed to believe that!
Take a thorp for example...
Right, the average thorp has less than how many people in it? Less than 20.
And LazerX, you need to go re-read the rules of that thorp. That 50gp is not the median price of the items for sale. It is the majority price. That is, it will have 75% of all items, magic and mundane, that are 50gp or less. That means it will have, per rules, any 1st level potion you want to buy. Universal solvents, acid flasks, etc. Ye Olden General Store is fully stocked with 75% of the items in the book under 50gp.
That 1d4 minor magic item entry means exactly what it says, it has 1d4 minor magic items. Minor magic items run from a minimum of 50gp (feather token, anchor) to a whopping 7,500 gp (boots of levitation).
So our tiny 10 (median) person thorp has anywhere from 50gp to a whopping 30,000gp worth of items for sale.
So, the poorest, most remote hatfield/mccoy thorp (you can get 20 people in one family) has access to magic. Up to 30,000gp of magic, and they will sell you 75% of all items that are 50gp or less and buy any item or items 500gp or less.
Again, it doesn't sound like magic is rare in the slightest, by the rules assumptions.
And no, it may not make sense to you, but it apparently does to the Devs, and if you look at any of the Golarion APs, you see casters left and right and magic all over the place (other than Alkenstar).
Surely there is a scroll of antimagic field in there somewhere...at least 75% of the time (and the rest of the time they can sell things until they can afford to get one).
Hiring a spellcaster to cast it is even cheaper! Only 660gp.
I still say you're understating the difficulty here. Antimagic field has a radius of 10 feet.
So SWAT member (Joe) gets the scroll, manages to UMD it and avoid a scroll mishap (none of which are trivial if he's supposed to be low-ish level.)
So now he's carrying the kryptonite.
He runs up and tackles Superman. Superman loses his powers. But Clark Kent is still a pretty big guy, so grappling him and hanging on isn't trivial either.
If Superman can ever get 10 feet away from Joe, he can get his powers back, to either flee into the sky, or murder all the SWAT members who are not standing right next to Joe with his eye lasers. Or both.
And since this is a turn-based game, getting 10 feet ahead of someone, even with the same ground speed, is pretty easy. Or, since we're talking about a Mythic monster or character of some kind, just murdering Joe without using magic and then walk away from the antimagic corpse.
There should be a mythic ability where you count as a 'deity or artifact' and are no longer affected by antimagic field.
That makes sense: That's how aging worked in things like The Magic Goes Away when old characters get into magic-depleted areas.Karzoug's immortality is an exceptional ability, which is how it should be. By comparison, CR 30 Baba Yaga's immortality is written as a supernatural ability - who would go through all the effort of "finding her death and returning it to her body," then actually fighting her and killing her, when a simple 6th-level spell would cause her to crumble into 2,000-year-old ash? The PCs could easily ** spoiler omitted **
It's pretty apparent that immortality is an exceptional ability, not a supernatural one.
Given that Baba Yaga would just reappear 24 hours later with a serious revenge-bend for whoever cast anti-magic field near her, I'd wager that even if a GM allowed that to work, they'd probably have the party dying in pretty short order from a long series of "unfortunate accidents" as Baba Yaga enacts her revenge.
Just sayin.
Given that Baba Yaga would just reappear 24 hours later with a serious revenge-bend for whoever cast anti-magic field near her, I'd wager that even if a GM allowed that to work, they'd probably have the party dying in pretty short order from a long series of "unfortunate accidents" as Baba Yaga enacts her revenge.
Just sayin.Actually I made a mistake: Baba Yaga's immortality ability does not (counterintuitively) let her live forever. Her long-lived ability is what makes her immune to aging, and it too is exceptional. So far, here are the class abilities that grant immortality, and whether they are exceptional or supernatural:
-Monk of the four wind's 20th-level "immortality" ability (supernatural)
-Alchemist's "eternal youth" grand discovery (supernatural)
-Mythic universal path ability "longevity" (supernatural)
-Wizard's 20th-level "immortality" discovery (exceptional)
-Baba Yaga and Karzoug's immortality abilities (exceptional)
-Imperious bloodline sorcerer's 20th-level immortal legend ability (exceptional)The inconsistency is annoying. Immortality should be exceptional, plain and simple. Arbitrarily making it supernatural just adds a massive kill-switch weakness to your immortal alchemist/mythic character/monk of the four winds.
I think it's kind of silly that the Sorcerer and Wizard have Exceptional immortality abiltiies, when a Monk who is far more "Exceptional" gets a supernatural version. I'd say for mechanics it should be all or nothing. Exceptional or Supernatural. At the very least make the Wizard and Sorc one supernatural, since they're essentially LITERALLY magic based.
I agree that immortality should always be exceptional in nature unless it is made absolutely, abundantly clear that ongoing magic is what is sustaining the creature's life force.
There should be a mythic ability where you count as a 'deity or artifact' and are no longer affected by antimagic field.
That would be absolutely incredible/awesome for the one or two times it actually came up in the entirety of the character's career.
I agree that immortality should always be exceptional in nature unless it is made absolutely, abundantly clear that ongoing magic is what is sustaining the creature's life force.
There should be a mythic ability where you count as a 'deity or artifact' and are no longer affected by antimagic field.That would be absolutely incredible/awesome for the one or two times it actually came up in the entirety of the character's career.
Unless, of course, the mythic character adds running around with an antimagic field to his list of tactics.
Where do Wizards get a 20th level "Immortality" discovery? The Core Rulebook has no mention of such a thing.
Why are we assuming that the moment a character's immortality is suppressed that time suddenly catches up to them? When you pause a movie and walk away for 2 hours, it won't suddenly be at the end of the credits when you resume it.
The line about continuing to age is given in the context of continuing to accrue the benefits of the mental stat boosts, not of time paradoxes.
Where do Wizards get a 20th level "Immortality" discovery? The Core Rulebook has no mention of such a thing.
You can find it in Ultimate Magic under the Wizard class entry. Essentially, it replaces a feat and can only be taken at 20th-level.
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Why are we assuming that the moment a character's immortality is suppressed that time suddenly catches up to them? When you pause a movie and walk away for 2 hours, it won't suddenly be at the end of the credits when you resume it.
The line about continuing to age is given in the context of continuing to accrue the benefits of the mental stat boosts, not of time paradoxes.
That's pretty much how I'd run it as a GM.
@Tangent101: It's from Ultimate Magic.
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Why are we assuming that the moment a character's immortality is suppressed that time suddenly catches up to them? When you pause a movie and walk away for 2 hours, it won't suddenly be at the end of the credits when you resume it.
The line about continuing to age is given in the context of continuing to accrue the benefits of the mental stat boosts, not of time paradoxes.
This makes the most sense. Also, the rule is worded a bit weird it's like you can't die from old age but you still get older as in you look physically older but your stats are kept from decreasing.
I take the rule as you are young(restored to peak vitality actually) and don't age physically in any capacity. Mentally you are still learning etc. therefore your mental stats increase as per the standard age rules as that just makes sense to use them.
As for the anti-magic field, I say you continue to age from your peak vitality and then once out of the field you return to that instantly. So if you spent 50 years in the field then bam young and vital as soon as you step out.
(And only castable by the people are affected by it most, I should point out.)Or anybody who invested in UMD and carries a scroll.
At which point we're no longer talking about commoners and pitchforks.
General nitpick, Ex is short for extraordinary, not exceptional.
I think it's kind of silly that the Sorcerer and Wizard have Exceptional immortality abiltiies, when a Monk who is far more "Exceptional" gets a supernatural version. I'd say for mechanics it should be all or nothing. Exceptional or Supernatural. At the very least make the Wizard and Sorc one supernatural, since they're essentially LITERALLY magic based.Given that Baba Yaga would just reappear 24 hours later with a serious revenge-bend for whoever cast anti-magic field near her, I'd wager that even if a GM allowed that to work, they'd probably have the party dying in pretty short order from a long series of "unfortunate accidents" as Baba Yaga enacts her revenge.
Just sayin.Actually I made a mistake: Baba Yaga's immortality ability does not (counterintuitively) let her live forever. Her long-lived ability is what makes her immune to aging, and it too is exceptional. So far, here are the class abilities that grant immortality, and whether they are exceptional or supernatural:
-Monk of the four wind's 20th-level "immortality" ability (supernatural)
-Alchemist's "eternal youth" grand discovery (supernatural)
-Mythic universal path ability "longevity" (supernatural)
-Wizard's 20th-level "immortality" discovery (exceptional)
-Baba Yaga and Karzoug's immortality abilities (exceptional)
-Imperious bloodline sorcerer's 20th-level immortal legend ability (exceptional)The inconsistency is annoying. Immortality should be exceptional, plain and simple. Arbitrarily making it supernatural just adds a massive kill-switch weakness to your immortal alchemist/mythic character/monk of the four winds.
Wait a minute. Isn't this also part of that whole melee / caster disparity issue?
The Monk's Immortality is shut down by Anti-Magic Field, but the Wizard's somehow isn't?
I really feel for the immortal trapped on a null magic plane created by Create Greater Demiplane. Either his abilities are supernatural and he dies, or they are extraordinary and he's trapped forever.
It's available much sooner (potentially) than the Wizard or Alchemist capstone abilities that aren't suppressed by an antimagic field. On the other hand I was thinking of making a venerable wizard for WotR and toughing it through the first few levels...but that's a somewhat scarier choice now.
Come on.... grow a sac! ;)
It's available much sooner (potentially) than the Wizard or Alchemist capstone abilities that aren't suppressed by an antimagic field. On the other hand I was thinking of making a venerable wizard for WotR and toughing it through the first few levels...but that's a somewhat scarier choice now.Come on.... grow a sac! ;)
Hehe, maybe I will, but you kill him and it's going to be another paladin in the party. :)
You know, if I were 1000 years old, I figure I'd be pretty keen to immortal killing tricks like that. I don't know, that just seems like a lot of time to be good at what you do.
You know, if I were 1000 years old, I figure I'd be pretty keen to immortal killing tricks like that. I don't know, that just seems like a lot of time to be good at what you do.
It'd be incredibly easy. Permanent prismatic sphere. Prismatic sphere is explicitly not suppressed by antimagic field. The indigo layer stops all spells. Antimagic field is not described as immune to the indigo layer of prismatic sphere.
You know, if I were 1000 years old, I figure I'd be pretty keen to immortal killing tricks like that. I don't know, that just seems like a lot of time to be good at what you do.It'd be incredibly easy. Permanent prismatic sphere. Prismatic sphere is explicitly not suppressed by antimagic field. The indigo layer stops all spells. Antimagic field is not described as immune to the indigo layer of prismatic sphere.
See! That's the kind of stuff I'd learn in 1000 years. Easy.
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If I were an immortal ascended being, nobody would would know I was immortal or ascended. There are a few path abilities that would allow a mythic character to wander the world in complete anonymity.
Nobody would every know to prepare an anti-magic field.
If I were to build a character to actually live for thousands of years instead just moving from combat to combat, Jacob could fit in anywhere.
At which point we're no longer talking about commoners and pitchforks.(And only castable by the people are affected by it most, I should point out.)Or anybody who invested in UMD and carries a scroll.
*cough* dust of emulation *cough*
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*cough* dust of emulation *cough*At which point we're no longer talking about commoners and pitchforks.(And only castable by the people are affected by it most, I should point out.)Or anybody who invested in UMD and carries a scroll.
Dust of emulation only lets you use UMD to emulate a class feature or a race. It does not work for using a scroll ;-)
Solution:
If you're mythic, make sure to cast Aroden's Spellbane targeting antimagic field. It lasts for hours and negates the named spell within 10 ft. of you.
And if I'm an non-magical immortal, I would probably just hurl my axe (or a 1000lb stone pillar, being godlike in power and all) at the rube trying to antimagic me.
And if I'm an non-magical immortal, I would probably just hurl my axe (or a 1000lb stone pillar, being godlike in power and all) at the rube trying to antimagic me.
Hell, you could just summon a ranged creature and kill the hell out of the commoners that thought to try and overpower you.