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Put my hope down for the next big bad after the Tyrant is a returned Choral leading a massive army of red dragons to bring about a new draconic kingdom. He's just asking to come back soon, and i can see a whole lot of other nations busy recovering from dealing with the Tyrant as an ample time for him to show up and expand his kingdom (after recovering his old one first).
It does make sense since Arazni's main connection to Geb was "its where she was held against her will". She is from Arcadia and more connected to Inner Sea region from her work as Aroden's herald and through grudge towards Tar-Babhon for killing her in first place.It feels to me like Arazni does want to settle some business with Geb, but Tar-Baphon takes priority and that's gonna take as long as it is gonna take.
True. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if Nex gets a little bit of unasked for (and possibly unwanted) divine aid when he comes back.
Put my hope down for the next big bad after the Tyrant is a returned Choral leading a massive army of red dragons to bring about a new draconic kingdom. He's just asking to come back soon, and i can see a whole lot of other nations busy recovering from dealing with the Tyrant as an ample time for him to show up and expand his kingdom (after recovering his old one first).
This is pretty clearly a hook LO: Legends gestured at, but I don’t know how much the PF2 crowd - devs and fanbase both - would go for something that looked so traditional Western high fantasy. “The big warlord with the dragon stuff” would be hard to make feel fresh.
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I genuinely hope that Blood Lords is written with "Screw it, we just want to hurt [whoever is most loathsome in the vicinity]" as a potential outcome.
Our Hell's Vengeance game kind of imploded when the entire party collectively decided we hated our employers more than our ostensible enemies (personal grievances outweigh alignment, particularly when you're evil jerks.)
It would be better IMO to have employers that while Evil are not jerks any party would want to kill.
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Put my hope down for the next big bad after the Tyrant is a returned Choral leading a massive army of red dragons to bring about a new draconic kingdom. He's just asking to come back soon, and i can see a whole lot of other nations busy recovering from dealing with the Tyrant as an ample time for him to show up and expand his kingdom (after recovering his old one first).This is pretty clearly a hook LO: Legends gestured at, but I don’t know how much the PF2 crowd - devs and fanbase both - would go for something that looked so traditional Western high fantasy. “The big warlord with the dragon stuff” would be hard to make feel fresh.
If done well (which I have no doubt Paizo would do based on their track record) I believe it would be a hit. Western Fantasy has a huge fanbase and i dont doubt it will always find fans. Look at how well abomination vaults is viewed here on the boards and Age of Ashes did in the rankings done by the rankings presented recently.
And after so many big bads being casters (the rune lords, the tyrant, geb, not to mention all the ap bbegs who are or were casters like the sky Pharoah, Ileosah, the ghost arcanist/sorcerer aboleth of Ruins, Belcora in Abomination vaults, Olansa and Sarvel Ever-Hunger being a clerics for an evil god/demon lord in more recent books) I feel an actual straight forward WARLORD would be something new. The ones we have had recently being the Stormtyrant and Azaersi.
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If they do keep humanoids as food in Geb, would it be better go the direction of "camp" instead of "grimdark" by portraying humanoids in the fashion of: minotaur burgers, human pork, elf salad ears, halfling protein shakes, mystery meat, and so on?
Especially when players have the options of being undead with archetypes. Time to bite into another Gary, or drink Diet Gary.
I know it's a good ways out, but it's fascinating that we still don't really know the premise for this yet. Any guesses?
Do we think it's the "war with Nex" AP?
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The Blood Lords are putting together a surprise birthday for Nex and we have to align with a certain one to get the best gifts.
You joke, but I'm desperately hoping this has a "pick-a-patron" element somewhere in it. My favorite thing to do in play is align with factions.
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I think the premise is that in the power vacuum left by Arazni's apotheosis/freedom, Nex is taking control of the city and the people who were previously working under/against Arazni decided they preferred her hand on the wheel, but we can't just murk Geb because he's protecting us from Nex.
It's an AP about managing a toxic executive.
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Yeah, I've been getting kinda bummed out that neither Ron Lundeen nor any of the volume authors have chimed in -- my assumption is that they've been given a (perfectly understandable, even reasonable) directive to not-yet-publicly go into this one with Soooo many other products coming out before this one that Paizo wants to promote first.
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I know it's a good ways out, but it's fascinating that we still don't really know the premise for this yet. Any guesses?
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I think it will be about internal politics .... Geb's situation is unstable, internally. Geb could be having to make concessions to keep his agents here instead of flocking Tar-Baphon's banner while they've also lost the Head of State and no one remembers where Arazni hid the budget.
I think its going to be about exploring the Gebbian culture and keeping it from falling apart.
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I'm really hoping for a ton of intrigue and guile and innuendo -- a real ROLE-play heavy AP that Ron Lundeen suggested could be possible, at least in Vol 1.
Countering Tar-Baphon without creating an opening for Nex to exploit and without making Arazni madder at Geb.
Doesn’t Tar-Baphon mostly hang out on his island in Avistan?
Creative Director
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Yeah, I've been getting kinda bummed out that neither Ron Lundeen nor any of the volume authors have chimed in -- my assumption is that they've been given a (perfectly understandable, even reasonable) directive to not-yet-publicly go into this one with Soooo many other products coming out before this one that Paizo wants to promote first.
No such directives are given to developers to stay quiet. Not every employee is equally active on these forums, and furthermore, we're still quite a ways out from starting to really work toward drumming up interest for Blood Lords anyway.
In fact, since things can and often do change between an outline, an author's writing, and then the development of that author's writing, it's often irresponsible for us developers to go into too much detail about projects too early, because that ends up setting out false expectations, and then I have to pull out Tom Rex to reign things in, and he's sleeping. Tom Rex gets cranky if you wake him up during the cold months.
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I don't know what Tom Rex looks like, but I just read some of the blogs for them and now I have the image of a T-Rex wielding a greatsword or greataxe with its teeny weeny arms in my head.
This pleases me greatly.
zzzzzzzzzzzzSNORT What? Oh... must have been a dream...grrrrrrzzzzzzzzz
I know it's a good ways out, but it's fascinating that we still don't really know the premise for this yet. Any guesses?
Do we think it's the "war with Nex" AP?
Well, I believe one of the books is called Field if Maidens, which makes me think if anything we may be dealing more with Holomog in this then Nex. Though putting my two cents down on theory...
I'm betting something happens and an Undead Mastrien Slash returns with the goal of reviving her now undead army to crush Geb. Some undead vs undead action going on. Maybe not as the main plot to the AP, but definitely at least in a part of it
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I know it's a good ways out, but it's fascinating that we still don't really know the premise for this yet. Any guesses?
Do we think it's the "war with Nex" AP?
Well, I believe one of the books is called Field if Maidens, which makes me think if anything we may be dealing more with Holomog in this then Nex. Though putting my two cents down on theory...
I'm betting something happens and an Undead Mastrien Slash returns with the goal of reviving her now undead army to crush Geb. Some undead vs undead action going on. Maybe not as the main plot to the AP, but definitely at least in a part of it
"Ghost King's Revenge" as the finale does paint a particular portrait, though. There's one person Geb's famous for wanting to get even with, y'know?
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Nex ?
I don't think Geb wants revenge on Nex. I believe he wants to crush him to show how much stronger he is.
I see revenge as a consequence of betrayal. Likely revenge on the AP's BBEG.
If the PCs win that is. If the BBEG wins, maybe it's revenge on the PCs.
I can imagine the finale as both sides making their case in front of the all-powerful Evil undead king with how the PCs did in the AP deciding who will "enjoy" Geb's attention.
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Nex ?
I don't think Geb wants revenge on Nex. I believe he wants to crush him to show how much stronger he is.
I see revenge as a consequence of betrayal. Likely revenge on the AP's BBEG.
If the PCs win that is. If the BBEG wins, maybe it's revenge on the PCs.
I can imagine the finale as both sides making their case in front of the all-powerful Evil undead king with how the PCs did in the AP deciding who will "enjoy" Geb's attention.
This. I have a feeling Blood Lords is going to be a courtly intrigue game far more then we expect. Think Vampire the Masquarade, Golarion edition
All of this sounds awesome, especially the idea of an intrigue-themed undead ap. Makes me think over to the other thread going on about 1e vs 2e aps. It might be neat to use the Blood Lords AP to experiment with an AP built to specifically use milestone leveling. Keep XP and everything for those that like it but... I dunno. Maybe have an icon that is like "this is a NarrativeFocusedChapter TM. +1 level if using milestone leveling." Just to see how it might feel.
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I'm really looking forward to see how it plays out. It's not an 'evil' AP, but undead PCs are allowed, and you're working in the country of Geb... How does this work? I must know.
And I have so many character ideas, but by then I'll have Book of the Dead too!
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I'm really looking forward to see how it plays out. It's not an 'evil' AP, but undead PCs are allowed, and you're working in the country of Geb... How does this work? I must know.
And I have so many character ideas, but by then I'll have Book of the Dead too!
I forget where the post was, but I believe James has described it less as the "evil ap" and more as the "non-good ap", from an alignment perspective. So. Probably a lot of compromising decisions and sacrificing others to manifest your goals.
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I have a feeling Blood Lords is going to be a courtly intrigue game far more then we expect. Think Vampire the Masquarade, Golarion edition
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This is what I think is possible, and what Ron Lundeen mildly suggested -- though he may have only been referring to Vol 1.
It is ALL CONSUMINGLY that for what I am feverishly hoping.
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Synopsis for Zombie Feast just popped up on the Products page;
"Something gnawing at you? The undead nation of Geb gains most of its international trade from the export of food grown on zombie-worked farms, but lately one farm has been the site of a series of strange occurrences. Dispatched to investigate the problem, the player characters discover a grave threat to Geb's minority living population, bringing them to the attention of the insidious Blood Lords who rule the land in the name of their undead wizard-king. Defeating the wicked forces behind the plot is the first step on a long road to gaining influence and power in Geb, but if the investigators can't solve the problem to the Blood Lords' satisfaction, their first step may be their last!
"Zombie Feast" is a Pathfinder adventure for four less-than-good-hearted 1st-level characters. The adventure begins the Blood Lords Adventure Path, a six-part, monthly campaign in which the characters rise from skilled troubleshooters to join the Blood Lords who rule a land of the dead. The adventure also details the Great Factions of Geb, whose favors are key to rising in political influence, and provides a complete gazetteer of the town of Graydirge, where the adventure takes place. New monsters, spells, undead companions, and more round out the bountiful buffet of "Zombie Feast"!"
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This Path sounds much more fun than I first expected!
Just realized this on the product page - isn't channeling positive energy illegal in Geb? I can't imagine they'll enforce that, or else this would be a meatgrinder for living PCs.
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Just realized this on the product page - isn't channeling positive energy illegal in Geb? I can't imagine they'll enforce that, or else this would be a meatgrinder for living PCs.
The key is not to get caught. Presumably, most fights will not be witnessed by foes expected to survive the fight and report you.
Alternatively, the passage of time and the change of editions might force an alteration of that law, as I don't think PF2 has an exact match for channeling energy. In PF1, casting Cure Light Wounds was a very different matter from channeling energy.
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We also have more ways to heal besides poistive energy now.
Medicine, Soothe, and even the undead bloodlines focus spell could all help with ways to heal that aren't positive energy.
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"...a grave threat..."
/giggle
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I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.
I don't think that Tar-Baphon will feature much in Blood Lords. That's one more mythic necromancer in the narrative than there needs to be. We've already seen Tar-Baphon recently but until now we've never seen a close-up of Geb and Gebbite society. I just don't see it happening.
Now, there's been hints that the Whispering Way will be involved in the Nex/Geb conflict, which I think could be fun.
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I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.I don't think that Tar-Baphon will feature much in Blood Lords. That's one more mythic necromancer in the narrative than there needs to be. We've already seen Tar-Baphon recently but until now we've never seen a close-up of Geb and Gebbite society. I just don't see it happening.
Now, there's been hints that the Whispering Way will be involved in the Nex/Geb conflict, which I think could be fun.
Tyrant's Grasp has a healthy heaping of Gebbites. I am running TG now and will probably run Blood Lords as a quasi-sequel....
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I mean, the link between Geb and Tar-Baphon is via Arazni, who has beef with both Tar-Baphon and Geb (and probably the knights of Ozem and Aroden for good measure). She's got a lot of beefs so she's not obligated to intervene everywhere they come up, but she could.
Comparatively more inexperienced deities tend to be more active in the mortal realm, after all. The whole detente between divine powers is also less applicable when the deity in question is ruining the days of specific mortals they have reason to hate from their pre-apotheosis. Like if Arazni tried to kill every Necromancer, Urgathoa would have an issue with that, but if wants to kill a specific necromancer that previously wronged Arazni then Urgathoa might have to shrug that off.
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With the first two product pages up, we now finally have a good grasp of the premise for this: you play Gebbite troubleshooters who stop a threat that would destabilize the whole nation and rise in the political ladder to the very top, presumably dealing with some kind of conspiracy from within. There also seems to be an element of finding a patron faction, which has me VERY excited.