'BLOOD LORDS' Adventure Path

[W E Ray]

'Blood Lords' AP

Zombie Feast .... Mike Kimmel

Graveclaw .... Jason Tondro

Field of Maidens .... Jenny Jarzabski

The Ghoul's Hunger .... Leo Glass

A Taste of Ashes .... Brian Duckwitz

GhostKing's Revenge .... Jessica Catalan

[W E Ray]

I am really interested in this one.

Here’s my big question: Ron Lundeen mentioned that there is quite a bit of intrigue in this AP – though maybe he was specifically referring to volume one, Zombie Feast. Can any of the developers or authors give us a bit more than that? Are parts of this super heavy roleplay with guile and innuendo and Skill Check gambits with very little combat? Does it have the ROLEplay vibe that large chunks of CotCT and WftC have? Is it so much more urban adventure and NPC development than classic dungeon crawl and wilderness adventure? ….If so, I am WAAAAY more ‘All In.’ A heavy intrigue/ roleplay/ guile/ urban setting AP – all in the backdrop of an Undead kingdom – is really awesome.

[W E Ray]

A question on a couple of the volume titles:

Is Vol 4 going to be “The Ghoul’s Hunger” or “The Ghouls’ Hunger”? ….Seems like it would be plural ghouls rather than one particular Ghoul (since “GhostKing’s Rage” indicates one BBEG, Geb) and a volume in the AP where PCs deal with a community of hungry ghouls they have to roleplay through – or ‘rollplay’ through) seems apropos. And fun.

I can’t wait for 5: “A Taste of Ashes” – such a great title. And I want to see if “The Taste of Ashes” really is weaker of a title than ”A”.

[James Jacobs]

Personal preference: "THE" at the start of a title almost always makes it a weaker title.

[Yakman]

This seems really cool.

And 'Ghouls Hunger' is better than 'The Ghoul's Hunger' or 'Ghoul's Hunger' or 'The Ghouls Hunger'

Also, and I don't think Mona addressed this, but will this be an evil-friendly AP? Gotta player who loves being villainous...

[James Jacobs]

Yakman wrote:

This seems really cool.

And 'Ghouls Hunger' is better than 'The Ghoul's Hunger' or 'Ghoul's Hunger' or 'The Ghouls Hunger'

Also, and I don't think Mona addressed this, but will this be an evil-friendly AP? Gotta player who loves being villainous...

We've addressed it a few times, most notably in the Adventure Path seminar, and we'll continue to do so...

This is NOT an "Evil adventure path," but it is also very much NOT the "overthrow Geb" Adventure Path.

Good characters are going to find it difficult to find a reason to play in this Adventure Path, I suspect, but evil characters will not.

So, not so much an "evil Adventure Path" ais it is a "non-good" one.

Of course, I've heard of folks running goblin parties through Rise of the Runelords, Iomedan Crusaders in Hell's Vengeance, Asmodean awfulness in Hell's Rebels, and paladins in Skull & Shackles. Likewise, I expect to hear about groups running all good parties in Blood Lords. Like the previously mentioned ones, though, the GM will have to do a LOT of work in that case.

[Yakman]

James Jacobs wrote:

Yakman wrote:

This seems really cool.

And 'Ghouls Hunger' is better than 'The Ghoul's Hunger' or 'Ghoul's Hunger' or 'The Ghouls Hunger'

Also, and I don't think Mona addressed this, but will this be an evil-friendly AP? Gotta player who loves being villainous...

We've addressed it a few times, most notably in the Adventure Path seminar, and we'll continue to do so...

This is NOT an "Evil adventure path," but it is also very much NOT the "overthrow Geb" Adventure Path.

Good characters are going to find it difficult to find a reason to play in this Adventure Path, I suspect, but evil characters will not.

So, not so much an "evil Adventure Path" ais it is a "non-good" one.

Of course, I've heard of folks running goblin parties through Rise of the Runelords, Iomedan Crusaders in Hell's Vengeance, Asmodean awfulness in Hell's Rebels, and paladins in Skull & Shackles. Likewise, I expect to hear about groups running all good parties in Blood Lords. Like the previously mentioned ones, though, the GM will have to do a LOT of work in that case.

good to know. i'm super lazy.

evil it is!

[keftiu]

Yakman wrote:

Also, and I don't think Mona addressed this, but will this be an evil-friendly AP? Gotta player who loves being villainous...

I asked about this on the Events server, and was told it’s not specifically an Evil AP, but it’s not going to be a great fit for a lot of Good folks.

[W E Ray]

On Alignment, it never bothered me personally. There is SO MUCH out there to play and DM that, for example, when the group is finally in the mood for pirates you can grab S&S; when the group is in the mood for evil PCs, you can grab HV.

You're not ever going to run out of published material to use either As-Is or 'with Homebrew modification.'

And if you only want (or prefer) traditional, mercenary-like good(ish) PCs in an Evil setting, well, I mean really, how different does Blood Lords sound from 'good'(ish) PCs charging through whole communities of 'evil'(ish) monsters, slaughtering them and taking their stuff? Seriously.

Of course, we haven't seen Blood Lords yet but, ...I just flat out don't see how the exact same (standard) group of PCs from Mummy's Mask or Serpent's Skull or Kingmaker or Skull & Shackles would be any different at all from a standard PC concept in Blood Lords. I bet one could take the exact same (standard) PC he or she used in Strange Aeons or Second Darkness and use it for Blood Lords.

[Perpdepog]

Next to somehow getting to play a Worm that Walks, being a playable undead has been one of my biggest hopes for a long while now. I'm super hyped for this AP!

[mikeawmids]

I'm getting strong 'Streets of Zobek' vibes from this AP.

[Kevin Mack]

W E Ray wrote:

'Blood Lords' AP

Zombie Feast .... Mike Kimmel

Graveclaw .... Jason Tondro

Field of Maidens .... Jenny Jarzabski

The Ghoul's Hunger .... Leo Glass

A Taste of Ashes .... Brian Duckwitz

GhostKing's Revenge .... Jessica Catalan

I feel like weve had the 5th book title before (Or at least something very similair?)

[James Jacobs]

Kevin Mack wrote:

W E Ray wrote:

'Blood Lords' AP

Zombie Feast .... Mike Kimmel

Graveclaw .... Jason Tondro

Field of Maidens .... Jenny Jarzabski

The Ghoul's Hunger .... Leo Glass

A Taste of Ashes .... Brian Duckwitz

GhostKing's Revenge .... Jessica Catalan

I feel like weve had the 5th book title before (Or at least something very similair?)

Crimson Throne, part 4, was called "A History of Ashes," inspired a bit by the title of "A History of Violence."

I suspect that the title for this one's part 5 is a coincidence. Turns out if you do titles for adventures every month for hundreds of months, some of them will end up sounding similar. So far we've avoided duplicating a title at least! :-)

[Grankless]

There's also Carrion Crown's "Ashes at Dawn", also a book 5! You guys love ash at that point in the story.

[The Raven Black]

Just before the regrowth/rebirth.

[logic_poet]

Although I mentioned it a thread on what themes you want in an AP, I'll say it again here. After the two APs immediately prior to this one, I'm going to want to see some "high culture." By which I mean things like fancy ceremonies with rococo furnishings and finery; the sorts of luxuries that a culture with an economy close to subsistence cannot afford; and manners and customs that a bunch of gun-toting outlaws would ignore. As an example, you could have another courtroom scene like the defense of the Beast from Carrion Crown, but this time, the PCs are the prosecution and the defendant is too powerful to face in a fight, leading to the party pursuing a legal process.

The titles look promising for this request, but I thought I'd make it here just in case.

[keftiu]

Very excited to see Jessica Catalan at the helm of the final volume - she’s been behind a lot of my favorite 2e stuff.

[Deriven Firelion]

I like Horror APs. Hopefully will be fun.

[keftiu]

I've wanted to play a Dhampir Investigator for a while now, and this might be the place for her... but my heart's really set on getting Inquisitor back, so I can play a servant of Arazni.

[Rysky]

keftiu wrote:

I've wanted to play a Dhampir Investigator for a while now, and this might be the place for her... but my heart's really set on getting Inquisitor back, so I can play a servant of Arazni.

Depending on how the AP is you could play a Liberator of Arazni (who multiclasses into Investigator) :3

[Uchuujin]

I think I need to read a lot of Edgar Allen Poe before creating a character for this one, to get a proper tragic hero. Raven familiar optional.

[Yakman]

anyway, I'm running a campaign and had to come up with the titles for GEB.

Just in case anyone wants to roll these out:

"Haty-a of Geb, Nomarch of Mechitar, Master of Smoke and Scepter, the Crowned and Uncrowned Hakim, Raiser of the Faithful, Archmagos of the Cinerarium, High Thaumaturgist of Geb, Grand Counselor ex-officio of the Blood Lords of Mechitar, Enactor and Defender of the Dead Laws, Sculptor of the Field of Maidens, Foremost of the Departed and Remained, and Holder of Titles Unsaid and Unknowable!"

[belgrath9344]

I hope Geb himself gets a statblock in the final book!

[The Raven Black]

belgrath9344 wrote:

I hope Geb himself gets a statblock in the final book!

That is the secret why Aroden died. I do not wish it on Geb.

[keftiu]

belgrath9344 wrote:

I hope Geb himself gets a statblock in the final book!

I doubt the AP about defending his country will involve destroying him.

[Perpdepog]

Also, there is a reasonable chance he has stats above 25th level, and the game's current cap hits that point. I could be misremembering but I believe higher-level foes are being held off on until there are mythic, or mythic equivalent, rules in place to let PCs face them.

[James Jacobs]

Perpdepog wrote:

Also, there is a reasonable chance he has stats above 25th level, and the game's current cap hits that point. I could be misremembering but I believe higher-level foes are being held off on until there are mythic, or mythic equivalent, rules in place to let PCs face them.

It's a little trickier. The math for the NPC/monster side of the game works fine, and we can use that math right now to build anything up past level 25 with no problem at all. The tricky part is that once you go that high, the numbers go beyond extreme for a 20th level party, and until we know how or even IF we want to build something that lets players gain more power than the current level cap—be that a 2nd edition version of Mythic, a mere expansion of the level cap, or something else no one has thought of yet—for statting up foes above level 25 things are kind of in a "what good would that even do" phase.

[Deriven Firelion]

Killing a god would be fun.

[mikeawmids]

Being killed by a god, not so much. :p

Is it a sure-fire TPK? I'm pretty sure I once read about a 9th level party in D&D5e taking down a Tarrasque with good tactics and luck.

[Perpdepog]

mikeawmids wrote:

Being killed by a god, not so much. :p

Is it a sure-fire TPK? I'm pretty sure I once read about a 9th level party in D&D5e taking down a Tarrasque with good tactics and luck.

Not a sure-fire one, but PF2E's math is tighter than 5E's is, at least I think it is since I'm not very expert at 5E. I've read threads on here of a level 20 party taking on Treerazor, for example, though it took a lot of builds being just so, and the terrain favoring them in order to pull it off.

That being said I have also read a few posters pointing out that the -4/+4 scaling of 2E's encounters gets more forgiving the higher up the party goes, and the more resources and things they have to draw upon.

[PossibleCabbage]

I don't care about not playing good, I just want to leave Geb a nicer place than I found it.

[belgrath9344]

James Jacobs wrote:

Perpdepog wrote:

Also, there is a reasonable chance he has stats above 25th level, and the game's current cap hits that point. I could be misremembering but I believe higher-level foes are being held off on until there are mythic, or mythic equivalent, rules in place to let PCs face them.

It's a little trickier. The math for the NPC/monster side of the game works fine, and we can use that math right now to build anything up past level 25 with no problem at all. The tricky part is that once you go that high, the numbers go beyond extreme for a 20th level party, and until we know how or even IF we want to build something that lets players gain more power than the current level cap—be that a 2nd edition version of Mythic, a mere expansion of the level cap, or something else no one has thought of yet—for statting up foes above level 25 things are kind of in a "what good would that even do" phase.

the if leaves me sad knowing thiers a good chance we'll never get 2e stats for tar baphon the 4 horsemen or geb. mythic rules/ lvl 20+for 2e are the ONE thing I want above anything else for a future 2e release :( as for what good it would do? allow story's & Campaigns were pcs mechanicly can be children of gods & take on cool things like Heralds of the apocalypse & master liches & necromancers!

[keftiu]

I fully expect “whoop Tar-Baphon” to be the final AP of 2e, whenever that is.

[mikeawmids]

keftiu wrote:

I fully expect “whoop Tar-Baphon” to be the final AP of 2e, whenever that is.

... and then in PF3e, Paizo can play the "Somehow Tar-Baphon retuned" card. :D

[PossibleCabbage]

mikeawmids wrote:

keftiu wrote:

I fully expect “whoop Tar-Baphon” to be the final AP of 2e, whenever that is.

... and then in PF3e, Paizo can play the "Somehow Tar-Baphon retuned" card. :D

Nah, the big bad of 1e was kind of the Runelords, now it's Tar-Baphon. For 3e maybe the Algollthu got organized again??

[W E Ray]

keftiu wrote:

I fully expect “whoop Tar-Baphon” to be the final AP of 2e, whenever that is.

mikeawmids wrote:

... and then in PF3e, Paizo can play the "Somehow Tar-Baphon retuned" card. :D

.

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Nah, the big bad of 1e was kind of the Runelords, now it's Tar-Baphon. For 3e maybe the Algollthu got organized again??

.

Yeah, I'm with Cabbage here, Pathfinder had RuneLords, PF2 has Tar Baphon, my first guess for PF3 would be NEX! Of course. But certainly the return of the Aboleth would be almost as good.

[keftiu]

PF3 is /obviously/ gonna be when they pivot away from the Inner Sea entirely and we spend the whole edition afraid of some Tian sorcerer or Razatlani demigod... in my wildest dreams, anyway.

I certainly wouldn't mind seeing that Golden Road algollthu plotline (from LO: Legends) go somewhere in an AP, though. Anti-aberration espionage across the fantasy MENA region? Yes, please.

[Perpdepog]

Someone like Nex feels more likely as a big bad than the Algollthu, mostly because he's got a name. Pathfinder big bads are interesting at least in part because of their personalities, and that is harder to get across when said big bad is an organization ... and also arguably not a person in the human sense.

[PossibleCabbage]

I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.

[keftiu]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.

Fingers tightly crossed Arazni makes some appearance in Blood Lords and gets some love in LO: Knights of Lastwall. I adore her; she's my favorite major canon character by far.

[James Jacobs]

keftiu wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.

Fingers tightly crossed Arazni makes some appearance in Blood Lords and gets some love in LO: Knights of Lastwall. I adore her; she's my favorite major canon character by far.

From the office of expectation management, I'm 99% sure Arazni has nothing to do with the Blood Lords Adventure Path. Ron's the dev for that Adventure Path so he'd know more than me, but from my knowledge about the thing and what we've got planned for Arazni, her story in Geb is mostly done; what's next for her is elsewhere and will focus on her as the primary character rather than a side character. Eleanor and I have been working on getting something started there but it might be a year or two before it sees print.

[keftiu]

James Jacobs wrote:

keftiu wrote:

PossibleCabbage wrote:

I feel like the Nex/Geb/Arazni/Tar-Baphon storylines are all intertwined, and should constitute the major metaplot for 2e.

Fingers tightly crossed Arazni makes some appearance in Blood Lords and gets some love in LO: Knights of Lastwall. I adore her; she's my favorite major canon character by far.

From the office of expectation management, I'm 99% sure Arazni has nothing to do with the Blood Lords Adventure Path. Ron's the dev for that Adventure Path so he'd know more than me, but from my knowledge about the thing and what we've got planned for Arazni, her story in Geb is mostly done; what's next for her is elsewhere and will focus on her as the primary character rather than a side character. Eleanor and I have been working on getting something started there but it might be a year or two before it sees print.

This is nothing but good news to me! That's terribly exciting.

[CorvusMask]

It does make sense since Arazni's main connection to Geb was "its where she was held against her will". She is from Arcadia and more connected to Inner Sea region from her work as Aroden's herald and through grudge towards Tar-Babhon for killing her in first place.

[Ian G]

Gonna be honest, I love Aranzi. Her "I spit on your grave" attitude and the way she comes off as mad at the whole world for everybody constantly failing, using, and/or abusing her is compelling as Hell.

I just want her to get some therapy. Maybe with the help of morally grey PCs she brought under her wing by helping them with personal payback in exchange for their help getting her personal payback?

[Kasoh]

Ian G wrote:

Gonna be honest, I love Aranzi. Her "I spit on your grave" attitude and the way she comes off as mad at the whole world for everybody constantly failing, using, and/or abusing her is compelling as Hell.

I just want her to get some therapy. Maybe with the help of morally grey PCs she brought under her wing by helping them with personal payback in exchange for their help getting her personal payback?

I'd like to see Iomedae make an effort at reconciliation. Not to steal Shelyn's niche or anything, but I imagine Iomedae and Arazni being cool with each other is more likely than Zon-Kuthon giving up the spikes.

[PossibleCabbage]

CorvusMask wrote:

It does make sense since Arazni's main connection to Geb was "its where she was held against her will". She is from Arcadia and more connected to Inner Sea region from her work as Aroden's herald and through grudge towards Tar-Babhon for killing her in first place.

It feels to me like Arazni does want to settle some business with Geb, but Tar-Baphon takes priority and that's gonna take as long as it is gonna take.

[Ian G]

Kasoh wrote:

Ian G wrote:

Gonna be honest, I love Aranzi. Her "I spit on your grave" attitude and the way she comes off as mad at the whole world for everybody constantly failing, using, and/or abusing her is compelling as Hell.

I just want her to get some therapy. Maybe with the help of morally grey PCs she brought under her wing by helping them with personal payback in exchange for their help getting her personal payback?

I'd like to see Iomedae make an effort at reconciliation. Not to steal Shelyn's niche or anything, but I imagine Iomedae and Arazni being cool with each other is more likely than Zon-Kuthon giving up the spikes.

Iomedae needs some PR anyway IMO, after the damage her rep took from Wrath of the Righteous. (in the CRPG she's significantly less of a jerk and a paladin who worships her will straight up tell her she's being a jerk if you're an Angel)

But I was thinking, "you all play people who have been deeply personally abused by one of the main villains of each adventure. Arazni is helping you out [with some kind of geas or infernal pact] to get your own back at them, and at the end you help her get her own back." You could have three endings--PCs decide revenge is hollow and convince Arazni to focus on moving forwards, PCs decide revenge is hollow and have to fight Arazni when she gets angry at them for being ungrateful bastards, or PCs decide "screw it, I just want to hurt these bastards" and help her get her bloody payback.

It would probably be difficult given the format but it would be a neat story IMO.

[The Raven Black]

Isn't that kind of what happens in Tyrant's grasp ?

[Perpdepog]

The Raven Black wrote:

Isn't that kind of what happens in Tyrant's grasp ?

Yeah, at least to an extent. The party gets to interact with her for a book or so, I believe.

Spoiler:

The party I'm running for scored some major points with her when they stranded all the pursuing members of the Council Libertine in a secret chest so they would all be stranded in the Ethereal Plane, for example.

[PossibleCabbage]

I genuinely hope that Blood Lords is written with "Screw it, we just want to hurt [whoever is most loathsome in the vicinity]" as a potential outcome.

Our Hell's Vengeance game kind of imploded when the entire party collectively decided we hated our employers more than our ostensible enemies (personal grievances outweigh alignment, particularly when you're evil jerks.)