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Manual Dexterity: The whole point of having opposing thumbs and why it's so important to humanity is that it allows us to use tools. If Familiars can't use items, then there's nothing a Familiar with Manual Dexterity can do that a Familiar without it can't. RIP Manual Dexterity.
Lab Assistant: The Familiar can Quick Alchemy an item that it can't use. And if it hands it to the Alchemist, it means that you paid one action to Quick Alchemy one item: A feature that every Alchemist has at first level. RIP Lab Assistant.
Independent: The Familiar can use one action in combat without being commanded. But it can't be used with Valet. So it is supposed to be used with...
...
...
... moving? Considering that the only action a Familiar can perform in combat is Valet and you don't need to move to use it, then RIP Independent.
Lab Assistant is now some book space lost. But Manual Dexterity and Independent were among the most common Familiar abilities. So, what's left for a Familiar in combat? Valet... And that's it.
I understand the need for balance. But paying a class feat to draw a light bulk item for free once per round is really that imbalanced? Being able to feed potions (that you pay) and Elixirs (the Alchemist is not exactly the strongest class) is so dangerous that it has to be forbidden?
And if Familiars are not intended to be used in combat, then it shouldn't be a class feat but a skill feat. It shouldn't be an important class feature of both the Witch and the Wizard.
If like me you think that Familiars should be able to feed potions and Elixirs, that the combo between Valet and Independent is not killing the game, then answer to this discussion and upvote my post. If it reaches hundreds of posts maybe Paizo will realize that we like Familiars. Not decorative ones, Familiars that we can use in combat, even for a limited number of actions.
Meh, I'm not sure how everyone else is handling it, but my Alchemist that has a Familiar with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity IS able to administer potions to with one of its actions. You give up one of your actions and you familiar gets two, one to whip up an item and one to feed it to you, or a nearby ally (provide that you spend one of your actions to HURL the damn thing at them).
My familiar is not decoration. It is LITERALLY the only Alchemist feat that I took, specifically for that ability (and maybe bonus cantrips for my dedication feats).
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Meh, I'm not sure how everyone else is handling it, but my Alchemist that has a Familiar with Lab Assistant and Manual Dexterity IS able to administer potions to with one of its actions. You give up one of your actions and you familiar gets two, one to whip up an item and one to feed it to you, or a nearby ally (provide that you spend one of your actions to HURL the damn thing at them).
My familiar is not decoration. It is LITERALLY the only Alchemist feat that I took, specifically for that ability (and maybe bonus cantrips for my dedication feats).
That's nice. Not everyone's GM is so nice. Society play will no longer have that as viable. And many GMs are like mine and will simply default to official rulings and a video from a top developer is as close as it gets to official.
To each their own. I'm not a fan of arbitrarily limiting things that fly in the face of common sense. I've had disagreements with Paizo staff and rulings before, only to have the issue eventually turn around in my favor. I'm content to sit back and wait for the wheel to turn. No skin off my back.
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I've seen numerous groups crying about that. Outside of PFS, I expect to see it largely ignored.
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Extra actions should be pricey IMO, so a 1st/2nd level feat shouldn't be doling them out each round. Yes, familiars are fragile, but they're also giving you other benefits too. Getting a bonus action here or there seems pretty worthwhile on its own, at least at the cost of a low level feat that works while Quickened.
Was it imbalanced? Um, kind of, yes. Imagine having all of those options with a telekinetic force, even one that's susceptible to attacks. Wouldn't that seem OP for 1st level?
PF2 has a lot of cushion for imbalance so no, it wasn't game breaking. Yet it was tasty enough that having a familiar became a default for many. You even call them an important class feature for a Wizard, when if it were balanced it shouldn't be more important than the other 1st & 2nd level feats. (Whether the Arcane Thesis balances becomes a new question though.)
As for Independent, the new ruling simply slows down the familiar's contribution, but it still can contribute in combat. And Valet can still deliver, just not apply. And so forth, as seems appropriate IMO.
Not sure what Paizo intended with some of those other abilities you list. Hmm. But as for combat, the list of familiar and master abilities has dozens of options, with many contributing directly to combat or other dangerous situations, so I disagree familiars should be downgraded to a skill feat.
Though it would be funny to have an Eidelon with a familiar. :)
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Thankfully, familiars bring far more to the table than what was mentioned above. Now, if having a familiar with the aforementioned abilities was necessary for an Alchemist to be competitive, then the problem lies with the Alchemist class.
Witch is supposed to be the Class focused on having a familiar. Not Alchemist.
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Familiars are supposed to be just focus point generators I guess. RIP to the Alchemist.
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I want to know where mark was referencing to in the rules that they can't activate items though.
I have looked at the following
- Traits: Manipulate, Minion, Potion, Consumable
- Activities: Interact, Activate an Item, Command
- Feats: Familiar feats
- Sections: Activating Items, Familiars, Animal Companions and Familiars, Consumables, Alchemical Items, Alchemical item subcategories, Companion Items
The only place that I have seen that mentions disallowing activating items is companion items. I don't see much evidence this was intended to apply to creatures other than animal companions though.
Heck arguably RAW it only applies to creatures with the animal trait, I don't believe there is any indication that familiars gain the animal trait (let alone count familiars that aren't modeled on animals to start with).
And if we are going with broad descriptive reading of animal, player characters can't activate items either :P (yes this is silly, but in RAW discussions silly stuff always comes up)
I am going to go with "Mark is human, probably made a mistake while doing quick research for the episode". If it is intentional and going to come up in a new FAQ (it really should be in the familiar section)Manual dexterity got a huge hit and familiars for alchemists went from being useful to being a waste of time.
Either way, it isn't being run that way at my table -laughs-
EDIT: Actually they are still super useful for alchemists even if they are only withdrawing and holding onto an elixir to deliver to the alchemist's hands via independent or valet. But yeah I am still going to ignore this ruling even if it gets RAW support or is RAI.
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Manual Dexterity: The whole point of having opposing thumbs and why it's so important to humanity is that it allows us to use tools. If Familiars can't use items, then there's nothing a Familiar with Manual Dexterity can do that a Familiar without it can't. RIP Manual Dexterity.
It can do things like opening a door, pick up a paper, ect. It's about as much as I expected from them as they have always been pretty meh.
Lab Assistant: The Familiar can Quick Alchemy an item that it can't use. And if it hands it to the Alchemist, it means that you paid one action to Quick Alchemy one item: A feature that every Alchemist has at first level. RIP Lab Assistant.
I never saw this as an action enhancer. It was mainly for creating things where you aren't. IE, you're throwing bomb at the boss while your familiar is creating and passing out a healing elixir 60' away.
Independent: The Familiar can use one action in combat without being commanded. But it can't be used with Valet. So it is supposed to be used with...
It can do things like Seek and sense motive using your spellcasting modifier and can do the same with recall knowledge or demoralize or steal depending on what Skilled skill you give them.
And if Familiars are not intended to be used in combat, then it shouldn't be a class feat but a skill feat. It shouldn't be an important class feature of both the Witch and the Wizard.
I think something like getting skill actions using your spell casting modifier is MORE than enough: for instance giving a wizard their spell casting modifier to a demoralize or recall nature check or even a seek/sense motive check is pretty sweet.
If like me you think that Familiars should be able to feed potions and Elixirs, that the combo between Valet and Independent is not killing the game, then answer to this discussion and upvote my post. If it reaches hundreds of posts maybe Paizo will realize that we like Familiars. Not decorative ones, Familiars that we can use in combat, even for a limited number of actions.
No thanks. I ALWAYS read them as mighty useless outside a very narrow band of things and this just codifies it. I've seen plenty of dm's rule this way anyway so I never bothered to make a character that relied on what I thought of as an exploit like valet+independent that I never thought should work together. Now I'd be all for them taking familiars back to the drawing board and making them better, like a familiar unchained, but I don't see the dev's making them the action enhancers some people thought they where.
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I really don't get the RIP Alchemist thing going around. The Alchemist is a solid chassis for building whatever you want. It won't be the BEST at doing a particular role that a class who specializes at it will, but it is a great fifth wheel.
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Witch is supposed to be the Class focused on having a familiar. Not Alchemist.
What is really sad to me is that Witch isn't the class that has the best familiar. The class with the best familiar is any class that takes the Familiar Master archetype. There are feats in there that give the familiar more actual power than the Witch can get.
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Lab Assistant: The Familiar can Quick Alchemy an item that it can't use. And if it hands it to the Alchemist, it means that you paid one action to Quick Alchemy one item: A feature that every Alchemist has at first level. RIP Lab Assistant.I never saw this as an action enhancer. It was mainly for creating things where you aren't. IE, you're throwing bomb at the boss while your familiar is creating and passing out a healing elixir 60' away.
Um, no.
It can use your Quick Alchemy action. You must have Quick Alchemy, and your familiar must be in your space. This has the same cost and requirement as if you used it. It must have the manual dexterity ability to select this.
So no having the familiar making elixirs on the other side of the battlefield from you.
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I really don't get the RIP Alchemist thing going around. The Alchemist is a solid chassis for building whatever you want. It won't be the BEST at doing a particular role that a class who specializes at it will, but it is a great fifth wheel.
On this thread at least, the attitude is more RIP Alchemist's Familiar. There is almost nothing that an Alchemist gains by having a familiar.
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I've said Familiars were bad since the release of the Core, and that new supplemental options from future releases would not raise them to be much better. You want a battle minion, get an animal companion. You want a spell battery, get a familiar. It's not complicated, it's not unintended. Raise complaints to your local PETF organization if you're upset Familiars are bad. It's probably the only place you'll find a sympathetic ear to bawl yourself to that Paizo "ruined" Familiars recently.
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Lab Assistant: The Familiar can Quick Alchemy an item that it can't use. And if it hands it to the Alchemist, it means that you paid one action to Quick Alchemy one item: A feature that every Alchemist has at first level. RIP Lab Assistant.I never saw this as an action enhancer. It was mainly for creating things where you aren't. IE, you're throwing bomb at the boss while your familiar is creating and passing out a healing elixir 60' away.
It has to be in your space to use quick alchemy and it is still an action, I guess it could then move. But it can't actually pass an item out other than move over towards a target and sit there I guess, which relegates it to enhanced familiars and witch familiars (requires flight, manual dexterity and lab assistant)
I really don't get the RIP Alchemist thing going around. The Alchemist is a solid chassis for building whatever you want. It won't be the BEST at doing a particular role that a class who specializes at it will, but it is a great fifth wheel.
Alchemists are still a solid class with only some early game hickups imo... Well that and mutagenists who want to melee suffer a bit.
But it hurts not to have that action economy booster.
I've said Familiars were bad since the release of the Core, and that new supplemental options from future releases would not raise them to be much better. You want a battle minion, get an animal companion. You want a spell battery, get a familiar. It's not complicated, it's not unintended. Raise complaints to your local PETF organization if you're upset Familiars are bad. It's probably the only place you'll find a sympathetic ear to bawl yourself to that Paizo "ruined" Familiars recently.
What a terrible take, they weren't bad for everyone prior to this ruling though. Just because you don't like their niche didn't mean that other people didn't find these extra utility options valuable. Hence the complaints.
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Extra actions should be pricey IMO, so a 1st/2nd level feat shouldn't be doling them out each round. Yes, familiars are fragile, but they're also giving you other benefits too. Getting a bonus action here or there seems pretty worthwhile on its own, at least at the cost of a low level feat that works while Quickened.
Was it imbalanced? Um, kind of, yes. Imagine having all of those options with a telekinetic force, even one that's susceptible to attacks. Wouldn't that seem OP for 1st level?
PF2 has a lot of cushion for imbalance so no, it wasn't game breaking. Yet it was tasty enough that having a familiar became a default for many. You even call them an important class feature for a Wizard, when if it were balanced it shouldn't be more important than the other 1st & 2nd level feats. (Whether the Arcane Thesis balances becomes a new question though.)As for Independent, the new ruling simply slows down the familiar's contribution, but it still can contribute in combat. And Valet can still deliver, just not apply. And so forth, as seems appropriate IMO.
Not sure what Paizo intended with some of those other abilities you list. Hmm. But as for combat, the list of familiar and master abilities has dozens of options, with many contributing directly to combat or other dangerous situations, so I disagree familiars should be downgraded to a skill feat.
Though it would be funny to have an Eidelon with a familiar. :)
Wizard is a pretty bad example because all their level 1 and 2 feats are fairly weak, and familiars shouldn't be nerfed just because wizards like to take them.
The class most affected by the change is alchemist, who doesn't have access to improved familiar and has some of the worst action economy for healing.
I disagree with the premise that low-level Wizard feats are all weak.
I also disagree with the premise this is a nerf. Like Graystone, I'd sensed shenanigans so this comes across as a clarification of an already extant rule IMO.
Yes, Alchemists make poor healers in combat. Requiring a familiar seems the wrong direction to go with solving that. If it must be solved that is, as being able to pass out healing items (et al) for everybody to carry has its own perks. I think a better solution would be action economy savers like move/pull/apply in two actions or similar stuff, even throwing healing poultices, syringes (good or bad), or something.
(I find Alchemists in such a deep hole though...)
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I ALWAYS read them as mighty useless outside a very narrow band of things and this just codifies it.
I'm actually curious about this. In my discussions with you previously about familiars I have come to the conclusion that in your games familiars are useless at absolutely everything. The only thing that they are capable of doing is being a battery for cantrips, focus points, innate spells, extra reagents, etc. The familiar itself may as well stay inside a pet cache for the entire game - both in combat and out.
So what narrow band of things can the familiar itself actually do in games you run?
I've said Familiars were bad since the release of the Core, and that new supplemental options from future releases would not raise them to be much better. You want a battle minion, get an animal companion. You want a spell battery, get a familiar. It's not complicated, it's not unintended. Raise complaints to your local PETF organization if you're upset Familiars are bad. It's probably the only place you'll find a sympathetic ear to bawl yourself to that Paizo "ruined" Familiars recently.
Yep, pretty much this.
It has to be in your space to use quick alchemy and it is still an action, I guess it could then move.
Yep you guys are right. I never played the alchemist + familiar thing as I never thought it increased options. I know I've seen someone else do this so it must have been a mistake or a houserule. ;)
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I ALWAYS read them as mighty useless outside a very narrow band of things and this just codifies it.I'm actually curious about this. In my discussions with you previously about familiars I have come to the conclusion that in your games familiars are useless at absolutely everything. The only thing that they are capable of doing is being a battery for cantrips, focus points, innate spells, extra reagents, etc. The familiar itself may as well stay inside a pet cache for the entire game - both in combat and out.
So what narrow band of things can the familiar itself actually do in games you run?
I pretty much said it in my post: you can trade one of your actions to get 2 skill actions [or seek/sense motive] that use your spell casting modifier + level instead of the normal stat + skill proficiency. So can be pretty good at start and then you transition to getting master abilities like spell battery, innate surge, ect.
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What a terrible take, they weren't bad for everyone prior to this ruling though. Just because you don't like their niche didn't mean that other people didn't find these extra utility options valuable. Hence the complaints.
It's not a new ruling, meaning they've never changed Familiars, merely your perception of them has. You can't have Familiars using items or making attacks. This was always intended.
All I see is a bunch of people using Familiars to try and game the rules to make them seem more useful and impressive than what the rules actually say they are. They are bad, they have always been bad, Paizo has said on record that Familiars are not combat pets, Animal Companions are. Trying to use Familiars in combat is like a Fighter trying to cast spells. Other than what abilities say they can, they aren't no Wizard.
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It's not a new ruling, meaning they've never changed Familiars, merely your perception of them has. You can't have Familiars using items or making attacks. This was always intended.
All I see is a bunch of people using Familiars to try and game the rules to make them seem more useful and impressive than what the rules actually say they are. They are bad, they have always been bad, Paizo has said on record that Familiars are not combat pets, Animal Companions are. Trying to use Familiars in combat is like a Fighter trying to cast spells. Other than what abilities say they can, they aren't no Wizard.
Citation please, reference the rule page and section.
The only thing I found (as I stated above) was in the Companion Items section, and that really doesn't seem to apply RAW or RAI.
If you can present something to me that is a bit clearer I would be appreciative though.
As for combat pets, sure they aren't intended to deal damage but there are plenty of abilities they have that suggests that them being around Combat is intentional. Either through specific familiar abilities or familiar abilities.
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I pretty much said it in my post: you can trade one of your actions to get 2 skill actions [or seek/sense motive] that use your spell casting modifier + level instead of the normal stat + skill proficiency. So can be pretty good at start and then you transition to getting master abilities like spell battery, innate surge, ect.I ALWAYS read them as mighty useless outside a very narrow band of things and this just codifies it.I'm actually curious about this. In my discussions with you previously about familiars I have come to the conclusion that in your games familiars are useless at absolutely everything. The only thing that they are capable of doing is being a battery for cantrips, focus points, innate spells, extra reagents, etc. The familiar itself may as well stay inside a pet cache for the entire game - both in combat and out.
So what narrow band of things can the familiar itself actually do in games you run?
Cool. Thanks.
Next question: Why even print all of these other familiar abilities like Manual Dexterity, Valet, Lab Assistant, Master's Form, movement options like Flier, Fast Movement, sensory options like Darkvision, Scent, ... the list goes on. All of these feel like troll options or even trap options with a limiting ruling GM.
And it feels like it is just because of the GM rulings. People decide that familiars are terrible, so the rule against them being able to do anything useful. So lo and behold, self-fulfilling prophecy - familiars can't do anything useful and are therefore terrible.
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Companion Items are the only items that animal companions and familiars can use, and they can't ever use an item that requires activation.
The pertinent line is "Normally these are the only items a companion can use." Which has a GM discretion tag, making this entire thread boil down to "talk to your GM", but RAW means they can't use items at all unless it's a companion item or your GM is kind enough to rule that you can.
It also references animal and beast multiple times, and after mentioning the GM element says activating items is something they can NEVER do.
But, it is in the companion items section which brings up other questions of intent regarding the items in that section and whether they apply to familiars as well.
And if we are using general readings rather than rule RAW readings here and are believing that it applies to any creature that assists you. It doesn't mention minion traits so does this then apply to NPCs or other player characters? :P
I utterly refute that the Companion Items section is clearly intended for familiars and absolutely disagree that it is connected RAW as familiars aren't animals or beasts and other than them assisting you nothing else in the section connects them as far as I can see.
It even says "the only items a companion can use" rather than a "minion can use" or "a companion or familiar can use". Nothing in the familiar section says familiars are companions.
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Cool. Thanks.
Next question: Why even print all of these other familiar abilities like Manual Dexterity
It can open things and such: sounds like a way to find out if that chest is trapped for the witch.
Valet
Seems pretty obvious: puts up to 2 items in your hands for one of your actions.
Lab Assistant
Since you have to have toolbearer [it says you have the same restrictions as if the alchemist used it and they need tools] and manual dexterity to use this, it was pretty pointless before this.
Master's Form
? What changed? The familiar can walk around, talk, open doors, ect. What am I missing? "It only appears humanoid and gains no new capabilities" Seems like it's to gain a 'human' shaped servant: It's not like a tiny one can give you a very good massage but one with a 'human' shape and skill training [lore: massage] could.
movement options like Flier, Fast Movement
They can reach the top shelf easier/faster? It's not like they can scout with needing to be commanded every round.
sensory options like Darkvision, Scent,
Seek and sense motive of course. It's one of their good points and expanding their usage is good.
All of these feel like troll options or even trap options with a limiting ruling GM.
More like favor option than trolling. I can say I looked at the familiars on day one and could see how they worked. It's not like it's hidden.
And it feels like it is just because of the GM rulings. People decide that familiars are terrible, so the rule against them being able to do anything useful. So lo and behold, self-fulfilling prophecy - familiars can't do anything useful and are therefore terrible.
No... Something can just be terrible without someone projecting that on it. It could be the reverse you know: some people wanting PF1 familiars so they EXPECTED the familiar to do lots of cool things and to be super useful and projected that into the PF2 versions so they rule everything that way.
So I understand that a familiar with Manual Dexterity isn't able to pour a potion into my mouth or the mouth of an ally because to do so requires the ability to activate the potion and familiars can't activate items.
My question is can said familiar with Manual Dexterity grab a scroll from my quiver of scrolls and place it my hand?
It can grab them with Valet.
But not with Manual Dexterity?
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My question is can said familiar with Manual Dexterity grab a scroll from my quiver of scrolls and place it my hand?
Yep.
It can grab them with Valet.
Valet gets a MUCH faster rate. A familiar is using it's 2 actions to hand the scroll with manual dexterity [1 to draw 1 to hand] but the valet gets to draw the item and hand it in a single action [normally 2 actions] and gets to do that twice.
Thanks Graystone. If the familiar had Independent and Manual Dexterity and I'd be willing and able to wait a few rounds for my item, my familiar could get me that scroll and place it in my hand. Correct?
But if I'm looking for economy of action and needed things pronto, then Valet is the way to go.
Thanks Graystone. If the familiar had Independent and Manual Dexterity and I'd be willing and able to wait a few rounds for my item, my familiar could get me that scroll and place it in my hand. Correct?
If it's in an easy to get place it takes 2 rounds with independent.
But if I'm looking for economy of action and needed things pronto, then Valet is the way to go.
Yep, but you're not really gaining anything unless the valet hands you 2 things as instead of spending an action to command the familiar, you could instead spend it to crab the scroll.
It's not a new ruling, meaning they've never changed Familiars, merely your perception of them has. You can't have Familiars using items or making attacks. This was always intended.
All I see is a bunch of people using Familiars to try and game the rules to make them seem more useful and impressive than what the rules actually say they are. They are bad, they have always been bad, Paizo has said on record that Familiars are not combat pets, Animal Companions are. Trying to use Familiars in combat is like a Fighter trying to cast spells. Other than what abilities say they can, they aren't no Wizard.
Citation please, reference the rule page and section.
The only thing I found (as I stated above) was in the Companion Items section, and that really doesn't seem to apply RAW or RAI.
If you can present something to me that is a bit clearer I would be appreciative though.
As for combat pets, sure they aren't intended to deal damage but there are plenty of abilities they have that suggests that them being around Combat is intentional. Either through specific familiar abilities or familiar abilities.
Guntermench already has me covered, but I will provide an additional caveat that Familiars are usually once animals themselves:
Familiars are mystically bonded creatures tied to your magic. Most familiars were originally animals, though the ritual of becoming a familiar makes them something more. You can choose a Tiny animal you want as your familiar, such as a bat, cat, raven, or snake. Some familiars are different, usually described in the ability that granted you a familiar; for example, a druid’s leshy familiar is a Tiny plant instead of an animal, formed from a minor nature spirit.
And if we want to argue that non-animal familiars can use items because of companion item rules, then that is a nice niche benefit to non-animal familiars, but good luck promoting that to those who can't do that with their fluffy cat familiar named Mittens.
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Companion Items
Source Core Rulebook pg. 604
You might want to acquire items that benefit an animal or beast that assists you. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally these are the only items a companion can use. Other items can qualify, at the GM's discretion, but an animal can never Activate an Item.
Note it doesn't say 'magic item' but 'item', so it's not limited to just magic items or worn items. Companions [animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures] simply can't use any item unless it's got the companion trait.
I’m going to assume that’s not RAI, but I agree that’s a valid interpretation of RAW.
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I’m going to assume that’s not RAI, but I agree that’s a valid interpretation of RAW.
Well I'm going to assume it's RAI or I can't think of a reason Mark said that familiars can't activate items.
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I’m going to assume that’s not RAI, but I agree that’s a valid interpretation of RAW.
After the video in question I'm not sure there's any reason to think it's not 100% RAI.
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Oh, I don’t mean magical items. But, by Graystone’s interpretation, a companion can’t use a completely mundane ball of yarn.
Or door knob.
Companion Items
Source Core Rulebook pg. 604
You might want to acquire items that benefit an animal or beast that assists you. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally these are the only items a companion can use. Other items can qualify, at the GM's discretion, but an animal can never Activate an Item.Note it doesn't say 'magic item' but 'item', so it's not limited to just magic items or worn items. Companions [animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures] simply can't use any item unless it's got the companion trait.
I'm going to always assume that means magic item and not mundane item. Yes I know its not explicit there. But in the broader context and in other places like Companion items it is clear that in this rule they are talking about magic items, because they talk about investing them.
I mean a horse gets to use a saddle and blanket and bridle right?
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Companion Items
Source Core Rulebook pg. 604
You might want to acquire items that benefit an animal or beast that assists you. These items have the companion trait, meaning they function only for animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures. Normally these are the only items a companion can use. Other items can qualify, at the GM's discretion, but an animal can never Activate an Item.Note it doesn't say 'magic item' but 'item', so it's not limited to just magic items or worn items. Companions [animal companions, familiars, and similar creatures] simply can't use any item unless it's got the companion trait.
I'm going to always assume that means magic item and not mundane item. Yes I know its not explicit there. But in other places like Companion items it is clear that in this rule they are talking about magic items, because they talk about investing them.
I mean a horse gets to use a saddle and blanket and bridle right?
The rider uses those actually.
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Oh, I don’t mean magical items. But, by Graystone’s interpretation, a companion can’t use a completely mundane ball of yarn.
Or door knob.
Well, opening a door is a manipulate action and I don't think familiars are barred from taking those.
Wouldn't be surprised if Paizo clarifies that too though.
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A horse suffers a saddle, blanket, and bridle, it does not use them.