The Leshy Glide feat takes an action to activate, but since falling is instantaneous, how would someone ever use the feat before hitting the ground (barring falling incredibly long distances)?
Shouldn't the feat function as a reaction at the start of a fall or high point of a jump, then additionally allow you to spend an action on successive rounds to keep gliding?
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I think it's supposed to work as the glide a parachutist will do with those aerodynamic suits, which means that you only do that when you want to go from high ground to lower ground, which makes it very restrictive.
I do agree with you, this gliding would make more sense as something one could do as a snap reaction to falling on top of controlled descent.
I see it as jumping from some height and then gliding. Which sounds appropriate for a 5th level feat.
CRB 463: You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling and about 1,500 feet each round thereafter.
I imagine you're not going to encounter too many drop point opportunities that are greater than 500 feet in height.
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I see it as jumping from some height and then gliding. Which sounds appropriate for a 5th level feat.CRB 463: You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling and about 1,500 feet each round thereafter.
I imagine you're not going to encounter too many drop point opportunities that are greater than 500 feet in height.
I believe the jump action ends before any subsequent fall begins. So, action Jump followed by action Glide should work perfectly well. You will be gliding from the start of the fall. Not only after a first round of falling.
That's not the way it works though.
You walk off a cliff, then you fall, then you activate Glide (if you didn't go splat).
Same thing happens if you jump. Jump. Fall. Splat or Glide.
If you could spend an action BEFORE you conclude the falling results, then tbeted be no point in numerous feats and abilities like Sudden Leap or Wall Jump.
Until this feat can be errata'd or clarified, I think I'm going to rule that it takes effect automatically when falling or jumping (assuming the player wishes it to) and that the action expenditure is for successive rounds in my games.
I gave a quick search and didn't find anything. When do you resolve the fall and take subsequent damage? On your turn if you leap off something, you could move 10 or 15 feet horizontally. If there is not a surface after those distances, you would begin to fall? So do you fall, resolve the fall and damage, and get your remaining action or can you resolve your remaining actions, then resolve falling? If you can do the latter, it seems easy enough to use the feat.
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There's no Wile Coyote situation where you resolve your move or other action, then fall.
You fall precisely when the conditions for falling have been met (immediately, regardless of initiative).
I gave a quick search and didn't find anything. When do you resolve the fall and take subsequent damage? On your turn if you leap off something, you could move 10 or 15 feet horizontally. If there is not a surface after those distances, you would begin to fall? So do you fall, resolve the fall and damage, and get your remaining action or can you resolve your remaining actions, then resolve falling? If you can do the latter, it seems easy enough to use the feat.
Immediately after the action. Which means that by the rules, there's not the old "I jump and then attack the enemy" used by martial characters, you either have the feat or you're land-locked and must use your ranged options. It greatly increased the value of the abilities that let a character Jump and Strike during the same activity.
Immediately after the action.
Earlier than even that oftentimes.
As I indicated above, if you Stride 25 feet off a cliff 10 feet away, you don't start falling 15 feet away from the cliff, you fall after 10 feet of movement, even though you haven't completed your Stride action.
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Why do you say immediately? Is that written anywhere?
Falling says "You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling" - emphasize on round. We know a round is defined as "A round is a period of time during an encounter in which all participants get a chance to act. A round represents approximately 6 seconds in game time." To me this indicates that falling may not be instantaneously.
There's no Wile Coyote situation where you resolve your move or other action, then fall.
If we want to bring cartoon logic into this, the two extremes are, 1) as you mentioned, someone hovering midair completing whatever they want to do and then falling or 2) someone falls 500 ft (over 6 seconds) and everyone watching with bated breath hoping that they either use a reaction to grab an edge or the spell-casters cast feather fall, then the onlookers resume whatever they were doing. When in reality (dangerous for a fantasy game, I know) they are falling over a period of time while the world moves around them. So given it is not explicit written in the rules, I don't see a problem letting a Leshy use their feat during a fall when they have an action to do so. Rules are unclear and that is the most fun.
Immediately after the action. Which means that by the rules, there's not the old "I jump and then attack the enemy" used by martial characters, you either have the feat or you're land-locked and must use your ranged options. It greatly increased the value of the abilities that let a character Jump and Strike during the same activity.
I do think it is a good idea to look at the sudden leap feat or even the jump spell to try and infer what the intentions are. I concur that they lean in the direction of resolve fall first and foremost. Nevertheless, nothing is explicitly written so I think it lands in the GM fiat territory.
Though I agree that the action on this should reconsidered. The first option is the feat should be a reaction when falling or an action when already gliding. This would probably be the easiest. Or perhaps it was set to an action to specifically only to be used on the Leshy's turn and not as reaction to something outside their control.
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Or perhaps it was set to an action to specifically only to be used on the Leshy's turn and not as reaction to something outside their control.
So they would spend an action to "assume the position" with Leshy Glide, then jump or drop off with another action? I could see that I suppose.
Or perhaps it was set to an action to specifically only to be used on the Leshy's turn and not as reaction to something outside their control.So they would spend an action to "assume the position" with Leshy Glide, then jump or drop off with another action? I could see that I suppose.
This is how I feel it should be done. It is basically two actions. I won't get picky about the order of glide/start fall or start fall/glide. One action to get off the the Leshy off its "platform" (cliff, balcony, treebranch, etc) and one to glide. Or if they want to flavor it has assuming the glide position, then stride/leap/step, fine by me.
I think in PFS, though I don't run PFS games so take it with a grain of salt, I could see expecting to do what HumbleGamer laid out
2 actions > Ready action > glide while falling
1 action > step, stride, jump, leap out of a cliff.
Basically 2 actions to use the ready activity to ready Leshy glide, then an action to move off the platform, and then the reaction to glide. I think burning 3 reactions and a reaction feels like a lot, so why at home I have no problems allowing a player to getting off the a platform and glide using 2 actions total. Though I do think I wouldn't allow it to be used as a reaction as written. As it is written to be an action, there seems to be some intentionality required. Though if a Leshy fell over 500 feet and found themselves still falling at the start of their turn, a single action to start gliding.
If you fall from less than 500ft after your first action, do yo still get your remaining actions for after you hit the ground ?And if you fall 501 ft and spent your whole round falling, then where did your remaining actions go ?
This is what I was trying to get at. I think no matter what you get your remaining actions. It is just a matter of what order you resolve the fall and remaining actions. And I'd leave it up to a GM because it isn't explicitly written anywhere. Personally I agree I wouldn't let a player hang out midair and complete their actions, then fall, but if it was something they could do while falling, I'd entertain it. Most players probably want to fall a short distance, complete the fall, and then take their reactions, and I don't have a problem with this either.
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This feels like an oversight where 1 Action was printed in place of Reaction.
I'm having a hard time understanding the intent of the Feat otherwise, especially as a 5th level option because I highly doubt the intent of this was to only be helpful if you need to descend over 500 feet or 100 squares.
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IMHO it actually doesn't make sense if it's not an action. Perhaps I am wrong but when I read the feat I took it as obviously modeled on the Fly action. I find this especially likely given the 'if you spend at least 1 action gliding' language suggesting that, at the very least, the action symbol and the text agree what kind of action they assume this ability takes.
Leshy Glide needs to be an action so that you can choose to spend multiple actions on your turn moving through the air. It does not need to be a reaction more than the Fly action needs to be a reaction in order for your to fly from a cliff. The only area where this doesn't work as you'd expect is gliding away from an unexpected fall, in which case a fly speed doesn't allow you to do that either, and to have this feat you already have automatic benefits of Arrest a Fall (provided you fall within your Cat Fall range) so I see this as working entirely as intended (if not necessarily as expected).
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The only way to USE it as an action to initiate the Glide is to USE the Action which affects a specific amount of movement in place of the normal falling rules. Using this action while on solid ground does nothing at all.
So you'd need to move off a ledge > Fall 500 ft > Leshy Glide to move 5 ft down and 25 ft forward > Use your 3rd Action > Maybe us another Stride or Strike if you have Haste applied to you
You're right though, it's absolutely written from the perspective of using on your own turn... it's just a problem in that you're using a specific Action to get a specific effect that it itself self-enclosed to the Action and you can't even "pre-use" this Action before leaving solid ground. It's almost like it's missing some rules indicating that you can use this Action immediately as soon as you WOULD fall during your own turn provided that you have Actions remaining to spend.
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Valid, the feat action should probably have been given the move trait. To me it seems clear that you start the action standing at the edge of a cliff and simply glide as a part of that action off the cliff, moving your first 5' off the edge of that cliff, but you are technically correct.
I don't think it needs any language regarding reactions or immediate actions, perhaps only a line that clarifies that you can start the action while either clinging to a wall or cliff face (in the case of my vine leshy) or standing next to a drop of at least 5'. It doesn't feel like it should need highly mechanical terminology when what it's supposed to do (let you move horizontally 25' while only falling 5' through the air as an action) is fairly intuitive.
Do you technically have to be airborne to start gliding?
So long as they end up 5 ft down, and up to 25 ft. over, would anyone let a leshy start gliding from solid ground? (e.g. standing on the edge of a cliff).
I suppose I would, primarily because I don't see how else it could work as written.
Note that the Ready action ends one's turn.
So I believe Sibelius has the right of it, you launch yourself over edges.
As it says in the book, abilities should work, and this seems an interpretation that works with only a minor tweak.
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I would if they use an action first to leap or step or stride. Note that the Leshy Glide action does not have the Move trait.
Yeah, going by the text I'd say it is an alternate form of movement action - like Stride, Burrow or Fly. You could stand at the edge of a cliff and the use Glide as your movement going 25ft forward and 5ft down. It even has a similar one-action-per-round-to-continue rule as Fly.
It is just missing the Move trait like all other forms of movement. Maybe an oversight, maybe it is designed like this so it doesn't trigger reactions...
But I'd treat it as a movement basic action like the others. Maybe houserule it to have the Move trait. That way it is usable and similar in usage to Fly.
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Today I had these same questions about Glide Action in general (Glider Form, Leshy Glide, Iruxi Glide etc). One of the alternatives I came up with was to use the rule from the Gamemastery Guide book: Splitting and Combining Movement. Taking a stride/leap action (move trait) off a cliff + Glide Action (Another Move trait).Combining these two moves into a two-action activity.
The only problem with this is that while all feats have the same description, only Glider Form has a Move Trait according to Archives of Nethys. But I wouldn't say it's a big problem, it would just need an errata adding Move trait.
Resurrecting this thread as now I'd like to know how the Gliding armor rune works in conjunction with things like an awakened flying animal's Take Flight feat. Gliding appears to have similar wording to Leshy Glide, unfortunately.
If needing to spend an action is an unintended oversight with the falling rules, then it's being propagated into all sorts of similar abilities.
EDIT: Grippli Glide, Iruxi Glide, Leshy Glide, and the gliding armor rune all seem to have near-identical wording.
Effect You glide slowly toward the ground, 5 feet down and up to 25 feet forward through the air. Provided you spend at least 1 action gliding on your turn and haven't yet reached the ground, you remain in the air at the end of your turn. Otherwise, you fall.
Requirements You must have at least one hand free.
Effect You can use your webbed feet to guide your fall. You glide slowly toward the ground, 5 feet down (10 feet if you don't have both hands free) and up to 25 feet forward through the air. As long as you spend at least 1 action gliding each round and have not yet reached the ground, you remain in the air at the end of your turn.
Effect You glide slowly toward the ground, 5 feet down and up to 25 feet forward through the air. As long as you spend at least 1 action gliding each round and haven't yet reached the ground, you remain in the air at the end of your turn.
Effect Using your own leaves, you can control your descent. You glide slowly toward the ground, 5 feet down and up to 25 feet forward through the air. As long as you spend at least 1 action gliding each round and have not yet reached the ground, you remain in the air at the end of your turn.
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I think the more important question is why Grippli Glide requires a free hand to "use your webbed feet". :P
Resurrecting this thread as now I'd like to know how the Gliding armor rune works in conjunction with things like an awakened flying animal's Take Flight feat.
Since it is your own thread, that is acceptable. The mention of its resurrection is appreciated as well.
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The difficulty here seems to be with the Simultaneous Actions rule. It means that you have to finish your action that causes you to fall before you can do another action - including the falling part since most actions like Leap say that they that the landing is part of the action. So there is no mechanical time to do glide actions when you leap of an edge, high jump, or release your grip on an edge before you fall the full listed distance.
It is a fairly simple thing to just rule that it works anyway for actually playing the game with. Being pedantic about it is only amusing for having rules discussion about.
I think it's intended that you spend the Glide action first, and then use a separate action to walk off the cliff or jump real high, or what have you.
For example, you could activate glide for one action (which does nothing at the moment), then Take Flight with your second action, choose to fall rather than land, then start gliding at the end of the second action instead of falling. For every 5 feet you fall, you move laterally 25 feet.
So if you Take Flight, you could launch yourself straight up 5 feet (since going up is considered difficult terrain), then glide laterally for 25 feet.
If you have Strong of Wing, you could launch yourself 10 feet in the air, then glide 50 feet. If you don't have enough movement to cover the distance, you remain suspended in the air in between turns and can resume gliding with another new action each turn.
That's my current theory anyways.
I think it's intended that you spend the Glide action first, and then use a separate action to walk off the cliff or jump real high, or what have you.
That works. But it feels like a workaround or retrofit to the rules as they are actually written.
If that concept of pre-spending the glide action before falling was intended, then the concept would have been much better represented in the rules by writing something more along the lines of:
◆ Prepare to Glide
You get yourself/your equipment in the proper configuration for gliding. The next time you would fall this round, you instead only drop 5 feet and move laterally up to 25 feet.
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But that isn't what is written.
Yes, we can just do what is literally written. "Activate ◆ command; Effect You glide slowly toward the ground, 5 feet down and up to 25 feet forward through the air" ? Well, read that and make this literally happen, and that will work.I think it's intended that you spend the Glide action first, and then use a separate action to walk off the cliff or jump real high, or what have you.That works. But it feels like a workaround or retrofit to the rules as they are actually written.
Literally, you can't fall 5 feet while you are still on the ground.
I wonder if this allows for any maneuvering, or if it's always in a straight line?
For example, could you glide off a tall cliff of a canyon, and then corkscrew your way down to the bottom, rather than crashing into the cliff face of the far side?
Many of the creatures that get access to glide abilities have other abilities that negate falling damage. That means glide abilities are useless for getting down from a height. Therefore their strength MUST be the additional mobility options that they grant.
If you can only ever use it whilst standing on the edge of an elevated surface, I don't really see it coming up ever. Particularly in an adventuring party where you're likely the only one who can glide; it's generally rude to leave your allies behind. That would make it TBtbT.
It must be a propagated error. It literally doesn't work as written, unless you're over 500 feet up (you generally go splat before you can spend the action).
"Read the whole phrase as it was supposed to be read" means to add in the part that you didn't write about being on rising ground and that this item is a very niche use ability that relies on the GM being very descriptive with their terrain.
Lovely. I guess that was my bad on misreading that.
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i think most of the issues can be bypassed if we assume what I've said 2 years ago about that issue:
Treating having the ability to Glide as if you had the ability to Fly.
If you have the ability to Fly, you don't immediately drop, but you drop at the end of your turn that you didn't Fly.
Similarily, Glide does have the same language as Fly about "if you don't spend 1 action Gliding you fall" so I would treat it the same:
If you have the ability to Glide, you can spend the action before the end of the turn to Glide downwards instead of immediately falling.
That looks like a clean workable solution to me.
Isn't that essentially what I proposed a few posts above?
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So the solution is just to ignore the "instantly move 500 feet down" thing that no one can even find a rules citation for in the first place?
That kind of makes this whole endeavor feel a little silly in hindsight.
Isn't that essentially what I proposed a few posts above?
Ah, never mind. I see now that it is not.
So the solution is just to ignore the "instantly move 500 feet down" thing that no one can even find a rules citation for in the first place?
If you fall more than 5 feet, when you land you take bludgeoning damage equal to half the distance you fell. Treat falls longer than 1,500 feet as though they were 1,500 feet (750 damage). If you take any damage from a fall, you land prone. You fall about 500 feet in the first round of falling and about 1,500 feet each round thereafter.
You make an impressive leap and swing while you soar. Make a Leap, High Jump, or Long Jump and attempt one melee Strike at any point during your jump. Immediately after the Strike, you fall to the ground if you’re in the air, even if you haven’t reached the maximum distance of your jump. If the distance you fall is no more than the height of your jump, you take no damage and land upright.
You can use your momentum from a jump to propel yourself off a wall. If you’re adjacent to a wall at the end of a jump (whether performing a High Jump, Long Jump, or Leap), you don’t fall as long as your next action is another jump. Your previous jump gives you momentum, letting you use High Jump or Long Jump as a single action, but you don’t get to Stride as part of the activity.
You can use Wall Jump only once in a turn, unless you’re legendary in Athletics, in which case you can use it as many times as you can use consecutive jump actions in that turn.
If you could take an action before gravity took hold, there would be no need for abilities such as these.
So still nothing even after several years.
If you could take an action before gravity took hold, there would be no need for abilities such as these.
No matter how you run falling, Sudden Leap still provides action compression, a jump height increase, and mitigates falling damage.
Besides, you yourself yesterday identified four abilities that are essentially nonfunctional in all but the most niche scenarios with instant falling. If we're really playing the "How does this impact other mechanics" card, that seems somewhat more significant than two feats that remain functional regardless.
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No matter how you rule the falling timing
The last sentence say
As long as you spend at least 1 action gliding each round and have not yet reached the ground, you remain in the air at the end of your turn.
so you just need to use it before you jump of the cliff, there is no requirement that you need to be falling to activate it. (if anything since its not a reaction its intended to be used before falling)
So you activate it on the cliff edge and can then safely jump off.
and as someone have said, you can even legally use the movent from it if you stand at the edge since the first 5ft down can be diagonally off the cliff.
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That sounds fine to me Nelzy, but how does that interact with movement Speed limitations? Say someone has a land sped of 20 feet and a limited Fly Speed of 15 feet (such as an awakened flying animal PC with Take Flight), does their glide stop its forward momentum at 15 feet, 20 feet, 25 feet, or 500 feet at the end of the first round? Is it limited by your movement modes at all?
If someone can Take Flight straight up 10 feet with Strong of Wing then Glide 50 feet laterally during the fall for only a single action, then I'd almost call that busted (if not for the investment costs).
By the time someone gets something to increase their temporary altitude (such as Cloud Jump), gliding essentially becomes single action at-will short-range teleportation in any location without low ceilings.
You just kind of Superman leap over everyone.
Conversely, if it's limited to 25 feet or by your Speed each round, then it's hardly worth taking.
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Is it written somewhere that any glides interact with any speeds in any way? I don't see any such thing. So no, they don't.
I would agree with that.
A listed granted fly speed (you gain a Fly speed of 50 feet) is not impacted by your land speed.
But these glide distances aren't even speeds. They have a fixed maximum distance and somewhat behave like a speed, but I wouldn't even have them be affected by something like Swashbuckler Panache (you gain a +__ bonus to your Speeds ...).