I see everyone talking about how good the Paladin is, what's the best 25 point buy Paladin build you can make?
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What kind of goal do you have? Healer? Combat monster? Face?
Paladins, for all their restrictions, have a lot of versatility. Archetypes (including oaths) make many variations exist.
Personally, I like an oath of vengeance demon-slayer. One thing about paladins is they can go with esoteric feats as not so many are required.
STR 16 (10)
DEX 12 (2)
CON 14 (5)
INT 10 (0)
WIS 8 (-2)
CHA 16 (10)
Pre-racial could give you a strong fighting-heavy platform. Human and Angelkin Aasimar are fun to try for this.
I want a healer tank powerhouse.
EDIT: Can withstand a lot of damage, its focus is on healing, and has a lot of damage output via melee or ranged.
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My experience with a paladin tends to be best off focusing on self healing. My personal favorite is a Pitborn Tiefling using the alternate favored class bonus from ARG, taking Fey Foundling at level 1. Upon your second level of Paladin, your Lay on Hands heals you for 1d6+4 as a swift action, which could be a third to half your hit points depending on your Con. Having been screwed by the dice more times than I can count, those bonus points have saved my hide a bunch.
Focus mainly on charisma to get the most uses of lay on hands, take power attack at third level to boost your melee damage, go Oath of Vengeance for the option of burning your spare uses of LoH for extra smites, and start picking up Extra LoH for bonus healing/damage.
Alternatively, you can go human. You lose some static healing bonuses, but make up for it with the extra feat. Fey Foundling and Power Attack at level one can get scary, especially with good party tactics and a reach weapon.
My experience with a paladin tends to be best off focusing on self healing. My personal favorite is a Pitborn Tiefling using the alternate favored class bonus from ARG, taking Fey Foundling at level 1. Upon your second level of Paladin, your Lay on Hands heals you for 1d6+4 as a swift action, which could be a third to half your hit points depending on your Con. Having been screwed by the dice more times than I can count, those bonus points have saved my hide a bunch.
Focus mainly on charisma to get the most uses of lay on hands, take power attack at third level to boost your melee damage, go Oath of Vengeance for the option of burning your spare uses of LoH for extra smites, and start picking up Extra LoH for bonus healing/damage.
Maybe add Greater Mercy, but otherwise I agree, this build just rocks.
I want a healer tank powerhouse.
EDIT: Can withstand a lot of damage, its focus is on healing, and has a lot of damage output via melee or ranged.
For ranged, the Divine Hunter paladin archetype ain't bad. Surprise everyone: level dip ranger 2 for the crossbow focus then switch to Divine Hunter. Use Gravity Bow as much as possible. It's cheesy, but I have a large heavy crossbow, which becomes huge when I enlarge while holding it. I have huge size crossbow bolts, to defeat the restriction on enlarged ammo. Put that with Gravity Bow and Vital Strike, and you become a death machine, all without relying on Strength bonuses. Focused this way, let Strength slide a little. With Vital Strike, you're only using full BAB anyway, so you don't even need that much Dex. A large size weapon only gives you a -2 attack roll. This will give you freedom to put more points in CON and CHA. Charisma will help you heal yourself and others. Look at crossbow and archery feats for your warrior stuff, and look at healing based feats for your healing role. You'll be effective, unconventional, and fun. Maybe too unconventional , though. ;)
Maybe add Greater Mercy, but otherwise I agree, this build just rocks.My experience with a paladin tends to be best off focusing on self healing. My personal favorite is a Pitborn Tiefling using the alternate favored class bonus from ARG, taking Fey Foundling at level 1. Upon your second level of Paladin, your Lay on Hands heals you for 1d6+4 as a swift action, which could be a third to half your hit points depending on your Con. Having been screwed by the dice more times than I can count, those bonus points have saved my hide a bunch.
Focus mainly on charisma to get the most uses of lay on hands, take power attack at third level to boost your melee damage, go Oath of Vengeance for the option of burning your spare uses of LoH for extra smites, and start picking up Extra LoH for bonus healing/damage.
Greater Mercy was always one I wanted to add in, but my groups tend to be weak on ranged support, so I usually pick up Deadly Aim with my builds instead.
a similar self-healing build using a core race. (human 20 point buy, ideally)
Really, the basic build is similar no matter what race you use, just trades off priorities. If I were going a core book race for a paladin, especially a self healing build, I'd go human. With any paladin build, you aren't going to have any room to buff your intelligence, so the extra skill point makes a big difference to me, and as I said above, the ability to snag Fey Foundling and Power Attack at level 1 is entirely too good to pass up. For stat builds, it just goes on your priority route. My paladins tend to prioritize Cha > Str > Con > Dex = Int = Wis. You'll want some Dex for AC and ranged attacks, but you don't need a bunch. If I get my charisma high enough, I put Int above Wis, otherwise I value the boost to my Will saves more than the skill point.
Feats wise, Fey Foundling and Power Attack at level once, then it's your choice of Greater Mercy, Extra Lay on Hands, Improved Initiative, or pretty much anything that boosts your offense. The biggest key is being enough of a threat that the enemies see a legitimate point to beating on you, otherwise all the self-healing in the world doesn't do jack for you. First build I did along these lines went sword and board, and I jacked up all my defenses so high I was nigh-unhittable, but ended up wasting all the resources I spent on improving my healing simply because I wasn't taking damage.
Depending on how the campaign looks/is going, I also tend to dip either Sohei, Rogue, or Ranger. It puts your healing a level behind, and I wouldn't dream of doing it until level 3 or 5, but each has a pretty valid reason to grab in my opinion. Sohei takes a hit to your offensive capabilities to net you a bonus to ALL of your saves, a smattering of skills that, let's be honest, you probably suck at, and the ability to always act in the surprise round. Rogue boosts your weakest save and gives you a bunch of skills we know you suck at, and Ranger boosts your offensive abilities vs a specific enemy, boosts your strongest and weakest saves, and gives you a smattering of skills that you probably suck at.
Can you tell my overall opinion of low Reflex saves and skill points from that paragraph? Lol.
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Sounds like you just want a thought exercise.
In this case you can refer to the Guide to the Builds and scroll down to Paladin.
You can also try the Guide to Class Guides, which is stickied in this very forum.
Sounds like you just want a thought exercise.
In this case you can refer to the Guide to the Builds and scroll down to Paladin.
You can also try the Guide to Class Guides, which is stickied in this very forum.
It doesn't really tell me much there. I'd like to expand my horizon by seeing what the people have to say.
Well, those are very potent paladins and they cover "tanky healer powerhouses" quite well, showcasing powerful feats and spells.
It doesn't really tell me much there. I'd like to expand my horizon by seeing what the people have to say.Sounds like you just want a thought exercise.
In this case you can refer to the Guide to the Builds and scroll down to Paladin.
You can also try the Guide to Class Guides, which is stickied in this very forum.
Here's the thing...the Paladin class doesn't have a whole lot of room for expanding horizons. The class has enough valid options that it could fill several different roles, but the core things it does well are hardwired into the class. You don't get expanded feat selection, you don't get world-altering spells. You're going to be some type of physical damage dealer that's predominantly focused on staying alive.
Want to be a big damage dealer? Pick up a greatsword and snag Power Attack, maybe switch out to a falchion and grab Improved Crit. Archer? Check out the archer archetype, grab a longbow, snag Deadly Aim and maybe Rapid Shot. Healer? Pick up Fey Foundling, Extra Lay on Hands, maybe Greater Mercy. Smite Monkey? Oath of Vengeance. DM only throwing enemies that attack your AC? Pick up a shield and Shield Focus. Miss skills? Dip another class, you can handle a one level delay.
Honestly, the main choices you get are going to be your feats at 1, 3, 5, 7, and maybe 9. Those are the bread and butter of any build, and 4-5 choices don't give you a lot of room for nitpicking, you pick up whatever will give you the biggest return for investment.
Yes, I can understand, I just thought there were some random feats that would fit into a combination together or something along those lines.
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** spoiler omitted **
Paladins were my first love and JasonCain's advice is very sound - if allowed, Tieflings make the best Paladins due to their favored class bonus and a few other tricks, especially if you dip Lore Oracle for a single level to grab Sidestep Secret - I'm playing a not terribly dissimilar build through Wrath of the Righteous as we speak.
Having said that, my favorite pure Paladin build is this one, using the Human race and a 20 point build:
Human 20th level Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Focused Study
Attributes:
STR - 15 (+2 racial bonus, +1 @ 4th level)
DEX - 14
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 8
CHA - 14 (+1 @ 8th, 12th, 16th & 20th level)
Traits:
Omen
Carefully Hidden
Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Skill Focus: Intimidate
3rd - Power Attack
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Extra Lay on Hands
8th - Skill Focus: Diplomacy
9th - Furious Focus
11th - Dreadful Carnage
13th - Greater Mercy
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
16th - Skill Focus: Knowledge - Religion
17th - Extra Lay on Hands
19th - Divine Interference
Skills:
Diplomacy (1-20)
Intimidate (1-20)
Knowledge: Religion (odd levels)
Ride (even levels)
On the Tiefling I go a different direction, taking the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Orcish bloodline (though I re-flavor it as aspects of his demonic heritage), and that's a very viable option as well.
The above build has no legitimate ranged aspect, but it takes full advantage of the free action Intimidation offered by Dreadful Carnage - the Focused Study option could easily be replaced by taking Power Attack at 1st and Deadly Aim at 3rd, but I find its nice to be good at something outside of combat and this option makes for a very viable face. With this sort of a build, Extra Lay on Hands is of immeasurable benefit as those bonus Lays can be turned into bonus Smites, making it one of the most potent and versatile feats in the game. In the endgame the feat Divine Interference will save your party members from that crucial critical that could cascade into a TPK - there's more than one way to Tank, after all.
Hope this helps. Take the bonus hit points as your favored class bonus, use a nice reach weapon like the Bardiche and make sure you always keep a pair of Heroic Defiance's handy. Good luck!
Take Cornugon Smash and a Cruel weapon if possible.
Cornugon Smash lets you make a Free Action Intimidate against everything you hit with Power Attack. Then you hit the Shaken target again, and the Cruel weapon (refluffed to taste) makes them Sickened on top of it. That's some powerful debuffing for no action cost.
Dreadful Carnage is nice, and there's no reason you can't take it as well. Furious Focus is a good feat, one you may have wanted to take anyways. The area of effect is good against multiple opponents.
However, Cornugon Smash requires no other feats (a major consideration for a Paladin), it's available earlier, and it doesn't require you to get killing blows.
Also, Intimidating Prowess may be better than Skill Focus. A Paladin with 25 point buy will almost certainly start with 18 Strength, and he will surely have 22+ by level 10.
If you're going to take Skill Focus, use the Focused Study alternate racial for Humans, so you get two more feats for the price of one. You can take Skill Focus Intimidate at level 1, and Skill Focus Survival at level 8 to pick up Eldritch Heritage (Orc Bloodline). Then you can take Quicken Spell Like Ability to make the 1st level power usable on yourself.
This approach only really pays off at high levels though. You won't be able to take Power Attack until level 3, if you still want Fey Foundling.
Here's what this build would look like:
H1: Skill Focus (Intimidate)
1: Fey Foundling
3: Power Attack
5: Greater Mercy
7: Cornugon Smash
H8: Skill Focus (Survival)
9: Eldritch Heritage (Orc)
11: Improved Eldritch Heritage
13: Quicken SLA (Touch of Rage)
15: Extra LOH or Divine Interference
H16: Skill Focus (Whatever)
17: Greater Eldritch Heritage
19: Extra LOH
Fewer LOH's (and by extension, fewer Smites) than other builds. On the other hand, you have powers that help you in all combats, not just against evil targets. And you can stack them up for absurd amounts of berserk rage Righteous Fury.
Divine Interference is a very, very good feat. You won't have the spells to use it all day, or put a major dent in attack rolls, but it's great for making enemies reroll natural 20s.
Also, good call on the Lore Oracle dip for Sidestep Secret. Just keep in mind that it's still subject to Max Dex from Armor. Like you needed any more reasons to wear Celestial Armor. Legalistic seems to be the least bad Curse to take, since its downside is one that you already have for being a Paladin.
@Atghaleon
All of this is obviously good advice and should be considered. For me personally, while I recognize the benefits of Cornugon Smash, in my experience anything that a Paladin hits more than once is probably going to be dead before those conditions can give you any solid returns (especially since he's probably not the only one hitting him). If you're facing a BBEG, you're probably Smiting and if you're facing something less dangerous than that, then the debuffs are more or less wasted on them for the brief period of time they're going to be alive. Dreadful Carnage affects all the foes you haven't had a chance to get to yet, even if its just one - Dreadful Carnage and Divine Interference are just two good examples of alternate ways to tank against foes you haven't even engaged yet without ever slowing down.
I agree that in a direct comparison you'll probably get a slightly bigger benefit from Intimidating Prowess, but with the Human option to gain multiple Skill Foci, three for one, you'll definitely see more overall benefit from going that route instead.
As I mentioned, I went EH myself on the character I'm currently playing, but having all the Smites, Mercies and swift-action self-heals you can use simply can't be overestimated. ESPECIALLY if you expect the majority of your play to take place below 15th level. Prior to that you're really burning a lot of feats and a lot of benefits for very little return. Also, I've seen some pretty compelling arguments that abilities like Touch of Rage that don't exactly mimic existing spells can't be Quickened. I don't agree with that at all and if ruled legal it becomes an incredibly powerful option, but I've seen enough discussion and disagreement on the matter that I can't include it in a recommended build. Its worth noting too that even after taking the Skill Focus feat, the initial Eldritch Heritage feat and the Quicken SLA feat, you can still only take advantage of that combo 3/day.
One last thing - can't recommend the trait Omen too highly. Perfect for this kind of a build. If you were to go with a Tiefling, strongly consider the Suicidal trait as well.
He also has a Ring of Protection +2 I believe and recently picked up a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier to go along with his Fate's Favored trait. The other trait being Magical Knack(Paladin). Oh and a helm of teleportation, though its not always in use because I havent had time to combine the helm and the jingasa yet.
No offense, but there's almost nothing about that character I'd recommend as part of even a semi-optimized build. It looks like the majority of its effectiveness is centered around gear rather than ability and I almost never include gear as part of my builds. Looks like you're having fun with it though and that's all that matters.
I didn't catch that part about Quicken SLA. In that case, since it is a morale bonus, take Community Minded as your second trait. Touch of Rage would still be a Standard Action, but it would persist for two rounds afterwards.
Or if Quicken SLA works, take them both.
I think it's useful, but not incredibly powerful. If you pick up Eldritch Heritage at level 9, your effective Sorcerer level would be 7, making your bonuses +3. Welcome, but not broken. At higher levels the bonus starts to really stack up, but by then the full casters are running away with the game anyway.
I didn't catch that part about Quicken SLA. In that case, since it is a morale bonus, take Community Minded as your second trait. Touch of Rage would still be a Standard Action, but it would persist for two rounds afterwards.
Or if Quicken SLA works, take them both.
I think it's useful, but not incredibly powerful. If you pick up Eldritch Heritage at level 9, your effective Sorcerer level would be 7, making your bonuses +3. Welcome, but not broken. At higher levels the bonus starts to really stack up, but by then the full casters are running away with the game anyway.
Does Community Minded work on you if it specifies your allies? If it doesn't it's still a great trait, one I was unaware of and will probably work into some of my builds (like my Orcish bloodline mounted Summoner or my Glory Evangelist) - if it does work on you then it becomes an immediate no-brainer.
Personally I like to stack the archetypes Sacred Servant (Travel Domain) and Oath of Vengeance. Abadar is the best deity for this combo.
I am also a big fan of the feat Unsanctioned Knowledge, since it allows me to pick up some real good spells that enhance my character's utility. Depending on how often you need it, the build can take the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, which gives you access to a pounce-like full attack.
Most common builds revolve around a BFS and no shield. Sword and Board is a good style, but eats up a lot of feats. TWF obviously has the best DPR.
Most of the time you will see racial options based on what kind of build you want. Gnomes and Halflings make for great mounted paladins as their mount becomes medium sized and can traverse dungeons. Tielflings make the best tanks because they get the boost to healing. A lot of people like the Aasimar for its stat boosts, and the Angel Wings feat line. Humans are always a solid choice.
It really depends on what you want from your paladin.
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Does Community Minded work on you if it specifies your allies? If it doesn't it's still a great trait, one I was unaware of and will probably work into some of my builds (like my Orcish bloodline mounted Summoner or my Glory Evangelist) - if it does work on you then it becomes an immediate no-brainer.I didn't catch that part about Quicken SLA. In that case, since it is a morale bonus, take Community Minded as your second trait. Touch of Rage would still be a Standard Action, but it would persist for two rounds afterwards.
Or if Quicken SLA works, take them both.
I think it's useful, but not incredibly powerful. If you pick up Eldritch Heritage at level 9, your effective Sorcerer level would be 7, making your bonuses +3. Welcome, but not broken. At higher levels the bonus starts to really stack up, but by then the full casters are running away with the game anyway.
You do indeed count as your own ally.
Here we go again: Traits are supposed to equal half a feat, but here's yet another powerful effect that can only be gained with a trait.
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With Oath of vengeance, extra lay on hands can also become smites, that is why it is worth taking multiple times. Which means every extra LoH can be converted on the fly to an extra smite per day. On standard pally builds, not so much.
Also, you don't count equipment on builds when recommending them because you have no idea what sort of magic or power levels are happening in someone elses game. Maybe the GM is stingy or maybe he is overly generous. An average build with double the WBL for a character is going to be at least as strong as a slightly better build.
With Oath of vengeance, extra lay on hands can also become smites, that is why it is worth taking multiple times. Which means every extra LoH can be converted on the fly to an extra smite per day. On standard pally builds, not so much.
Also, you don't count equipment on builds when recommending them because you have no idea what sort of magic or power levels are happening in someone elses game. Maybe the GM is stingy or maybe he is overly generous. An average build with double the WBL for a character is going to be at least as strong as a slightly better build.
Agreed. Either you have absolutely no idea what gear you're going to get - in which case there's no point in planning at all - or your GM allows you to get anything you want in which case anyone could buy the exact same things. I also find that very often including gear in a pre-planned build becomes a crutch to cover design flaws - builds should always be about what characters can DO, not what they can BUY. Finally, I think it's important to design a character who is effective at all levels of play rather than fixating on what he'll be able to do at 20th - so little gameplay takes place after 20th level after all.
Unfortunately our GM's find giving away gold and magic items take away interest in gaming...a dubious logic, I know, yet these things are hard to argue.
On the topic at hand, is the Inquisitor a good dip for a Paladin as well?
Unfortunately our GM's find giving away gold and magic items take away interest in gaming...a dubious logic, I know, yet these things are hard to argue.
On the topic at hand, is the Inquisitor a good dip for a Paladin as well?
Generally if you're dipping you're doing it for a very specific reason, such as Sidestep Secret. Don't ever dip in PF just to do it. As for Inquisitor it's a class I have little experience with, but I don't know of a worthwhile reason to give it a dip.
Not counting gear hardly makes any sense, unless you're only building more levels 1-4. And no offense but I'm not sure taking Extra Lay on Hands four times is any more optimal than my build. Nor is wasting feats on skill focus. I mean against a smited enemy with my buffs I'm hitting at +42/+42/+37/+32 and dealing 2d4+2d6+41+1d6 and a 15-20 Crit Range with +4 to confirm crits. I think Im optimally dealing a lot more damage and therefore not needing so many LoH do to enemies not living as long.
No offense, but there's almost nothing about that character I'd recommend as part of even a semi-optimized build. It looks like the majority of its effectiveness is centered around gear rather than ability and I almost never include gear as part of my builds. Looks like you're having fun with it though and that's all that matters.
Skill Focus is only there to qualify for Eldritch Heritage, otherwise don't bother with it. Intimidating Prowess should be all you need for Intimidate.
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Skill Focus is only there to qualify for Eldritch Heritage, otherwise don't bother with it. Intimidating Prowess should be all you need for Intimidate.Not counting gear hardly makes any sense, unless you're only building more levels 1-4. And no offense but I'm not sure taking Extra Lay on Hands four times is any more optimal than my build. Nor is wasting feats on skill focus. I mean against a smited enemy with my buffs I'm hitting at +42/+42/+37/+32 and dealing 2d4+2d6+41+1d6 and a 15-20 Crit Range with +4 to confirm crits. I think Im optimally dealing a lot more damage and therefore not needing so many LoH do to enemies not living as long.
No offense, but there's almost nothing about that character I'd recommend as part of even a semi-optimized build. It looks like the majority of its effectiveness is centered around gear rather than ability and I almost never include gear as part of my builds. Looks like you're having fun with it though and that's all that matters.
I stand by my assertion that Skill Focus: Intimidate + Skill Focus: (whatever) + Skill Focus: (whatever) is a better choice than Intimidating Prowess alone. It does, however, force you to use that first level feat specifically which could be problematic for some builds.
There's an insinuation there though, in EsperMagic's post above, that the use of skills in a non-combat arena is considered a 'waste'. If true, it would explain his character's focus on attack bonuses, damage, saving throws, AC and little else. If you're building and playing a Paladin like a Fighter with good saves, in my opinion you're really missing out.
Maybe something like this:
Traits:
Community Minded
Omen
Feats:
1st - Fey Foundling
1st - Skill Focus: Survival
3rd - Power Attack
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Eldritch Heritage: Touch of Rage
8th - Skill Focus: Intimidate
9th - Furious Focus
11th - Dreadful Carnage
13th - Improved Eldritch Heritage: Strength of the Beast
15th - Extra Lay on Hands
16th - Skill Focus: (Diplomacy, Knowledge - Religion or whatever)
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage: Power of Giants
19th - Divine Interference
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@OP:I think that nobody can actually show you the "Best" paladin. After all, Paladin is one of the classes that, as long as you understand the basic mechanics [Smite Evil, Lay on Hands, Auras], you really can't fail.
I will say that This is the best paladin IRL. Believe me, I should know.
Generally if you're dipping you're doing it for a very specific reason, such as Sidestep Secret. Don't ever dip in PF just to do it. As for Inquisitor it's a class I have little experience with, but I don't know of a worthwhile reason to give it a dip.Unfortunately our GM's find giving away gold and magic items take away interest in gaming...a dubious logic, I know, yet these things are hard to argue.
On the topic at hand, is the Inquisitor a good dip for a Paladin as well?
i dont think so. If you have 8 wis there would be no benefit to dipping. Btw i do have inquisitor experience, and i must say they can be quite powerful, much more flexible and versatile than pally and long term easier to play(no falling as inquisitor;-) ).
i dont think so. If you have 8 wis there would be no benefit to dipping. Btw i do have inquisitor experience, and i must say they can be quite powerful, much more flexible and versatile than pally and long term easier to play(no falling as inquisitor;-) ).Generally if you're dipping you're doing it for a very specific reason, such as Sidestep Secret. Don't ever dip in PF just to do it. As for Inquisitor it's a class I have little experience with, but I don't know of a worthwhile reason to give it a dip.Unfortunately our GM's find giving away gold and magic items take away interest in gaming...a dubious logic, I know, yet these things are hard to argue.
On the topic at hand, is the Inquisitor a good dip for a Paladin as well?
And Wisdom is one of the Paladin's only real 'dump stat'.
I've heard good things about Inquisitors, just never really stuck with me - and for the record, Paladins are pretty easy to play if you actually chose a Paladin because you wanted to play like a Paladin ;-)
Personally I like to stack the archetypes Sacred Servant (Travel Domain) and Oath of Vengeance. Abadar is the best deity for this combo.
I am also a big fan of the feat Unsanctioned Knowledge, since it allows me to pick up some real good spells that enhance my character's utility. Depending on how often you need it, the build can take the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, which gives you access to a pounce-like full attack.
I think that would be a great combo - Sacred Servant and Oath of Vengeance - but since they host change the spell-casting aspect of the class, I'm not sure its technically legal.
Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely popular, but I personally have never thought it was worthwhile - my Paladin spell slots are all spoken for.
Personally I like to stack the archetypes Sacred Servant (Travel Domain) and Oath of Vengeance. Abadar is the best deity for this combo.
I am also a big fan of the feat Unsanctioned Knowledge, since it allows me to pick up some real good spells that enhance my character's utility. Depending on how often you need it, the build can take the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, which gives you access to a pounce-like full attack.
I think that would be a great combo - Sacred Servant and Oath of Vengeance - but since they host change the spell-casting aspect of the class, I'm not sure its technically legal.
Unsanctioned Knowledge is definitely popular, but I personally have never thought it was worthwhile - my Paladin spell slots are all spoken for.
I like it for the purpose of Dimension Door for the Dimensional Dervish feat chain, or for Divine Power for additional damage and attack.
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I want a healer tank powerhouse.
EDIT: Can withstand a lot of damage, its focus is on healing, and has a lot of damage output via melee or ranged.
@OP: I'm slightly shocked no one has mentioned the Oradin build (Paladin / Life Oracle). That perfectly fits the bill. Usually I would avoid multi-classing, but in this case the synchronicity is terrific. It's even possible to play Oradin-style while remaining a single-classed paladin, once you have access to Shield Other.
I've not played an Oradin, but I've GMed for several. They can withstand a lot of damage, they make great healers, and they can inflict a lot of martial damage. All at the same time. Add flavor with several suitable archetypes.
The Oradin build concentrates on action efficiency. They use Life Link and/or Shield Other to heal allies (automatic), Lay on Hands (swift action) to heal themselves, and they have used neither a Standard nor a Move action to do so. They usually take Quick Channel (channel as a Move Action), in case additional team healing is required. That still leaves their Standard Action free for whatever they want, usually an attack.
The Oradin is a durable front line combatant able to go toe to toe with the toughest foe. The Oradin is a pretty good healer. The Oradin can effectively do both at the same time. Sounds like what the OP asked for.
In all fairness my campaign is on book 6 of Kingmaker and we already have a bard as party face, and a wizard as a skill monkey so yes, combat was my main focus as Im literally the only frontline damagedealer in the whole four person party.
There's an insinuation there though, in EsperMagic's post above, that the use of skills in a non-combat arena is considered a 'waste'. If true, it would explain his character's focus on attack bonuses, damage, saving throws, AC and little else. If you're building and playing a Paladin like a Fighter with good saves, in my opinion you're really missing out.
That's fair - you were just touting your Paladin as the 'best ever', not 'the best ever for book 6 of Kingmaker if you already have a party face and a skill monkey'. ;-P
Seriously though, you might want to look at the above build. At 17th level between Strength of the Beast and Power of Giants he'll have a 30 Strength, deal large weapon damage with double reach and be able to give himself +8 attack and +8 damage for three rounds to start every combat. He'll also pretty much automatically put the Shaken condition on every person on the battlefield with his first kill (-2 attack, -2 saves). And that's without any magical gear whatsoever. Once I start adding gear, look out!
I think I'll type him up at 20th level (or a different level if you prefer) with gear just to see what his stat bonuses look like.
I probably should have taken eldritch heritage, but my character before the paladin had that build and I didn't want to repeat it...
I'm not 100% sure I'm reading your character sheet right, but if I am it lists you at 15th level. If that's right, I'd highly recommend that you pick up Bracers of the Merciful Knight by the next level - by advancing your abilities to 20th level all of your Lay on Hands will be maximized. That's a big deal.
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Just remember, and never forget
A Paladin is Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent.
I took Bracers of the Avenging Knight for the bonus smite damage instead.I probably should have taken eldritch heritage, but my character before the paladin had that build and I didn't want to repeat it...I'm not 100% sure I'm reading your character sheet right, but if I am it lists you at 15th level. If that's right, I'd highly recommend that you pick up Bracers of the Merciful Knight by the next level - by advancing your abilities to 20th level all of your Lay on Hands will be maximized. That's a big deal.
16th level would be a good time to switch. Even though you haven't elected to invest much in your heals, maximizing your lay on hands is a pretty big deal, certainly moreso than +4 damage when Smiting - and 17th through 20th you'll lose the benefit of those Bracers anyway as there is no class level higher than 20.
I want a healer tank powerhouse.
EDIT: Can withstand a lot of damage, its focus is on healing, and has a lot of damage output via melee or ranged.
@OP: I'm slightly shocked no one has mentioned the Oradin build (Paladin / Life Oracle). That perfectly fits the bill. Usually I would avoid multi-classing, but in this case the synchronicity is terrific. It's even possible to play Oradin-style while remaining a single-classed paladin, once you have access to Shield Other.
I've not played an Oradin, but I've GMed for several. They can withstand a lot of damage, they make great healers, and they can inflict a lot of martial damage. All at the same time. Add flavor with several suitable archetypes.
The Oradin build concentrates on action efficiency. They use Life Link and/or Shield Other to heal allies (automatic), Lay on Hands (swift action) to heal themselves, and they have used neither a Standard nor a Move action to do so. They usually take Quick Channel (channel as a Move Action), in case additional team healing is required. That still leaves their Standard Action free for whatever they want, usually an attack.
The Oradin is a durable front line combatant able to go toe to toe with the toughest foe. The Oradin is a pretty good healer. The Oradin can effectively do both at the same time. Sounds like what the OP asked for.
Why is Life Link automatic. Doesn't it take a Standard Action to use it?
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Halfling rogue2/paladinX...bloody damned invulnerable and decently skilled.
16,15,14,14,12,07 25pt array:
STR-12
DEX+18
CON:12
INT:14
WIS:07
CHA+17 (all bumps)
00 02 05 -1 ...traits: Dangerously Curious, (anything else)
01 04 05 01 pala1, Smite 1/day, Weapon Finesse
02 04 07 01 rogue1 SA+1d6
03 04 08 01 rogue2 Evasion, Point Blank Shot, [Combat Trick: Rapid Shot]
04 09 12 06 pala2 CHA>18 [divine grace]
05 09 13 06 [aura of courage], FEAT, ...etc
Main skills: Use Magic Device, Diplomacy, Disable Device; other skills: Sense Motive, Perception, Knowledge:Local
Note: IMO the Divine Hunter archetype's benefits do not outweigh its forfeitures; I'd rather be a CRB paladin without Precise Shot if that's what the choice boiled down to.
Low-level equipment: wand of Longstrider, rapier, crossbow
Mid-level equipment: Oathbow, Agile/Keen rapier, Celestial Armor
Mid-level tactics: Manyshot things with a Weapon-Bonded Oathbow, then switch to high-threat melee weapons as appropriate.
...while low-DEX, straight-class, heavy armor paladins spend feat slots upping their Lay on Hands (because every magical opponent is going to plaster them with AoE and ray spells), the high touch-AC + Evasion halfling waltzes right through it.
...build trick: base will save of +6 by 4th level even though wisdom was dumped max at creation.