After two difficult games in which the players got increasingly aggravated at not receiving additional hero points (which would have gone a long ways towards making things easier), I set a reminder on my phone so that it would chime in the middle of the game with the question "Have you given out hero points today?"
Sadly, my phone was in "do not disturb mode," and I never heard the chime.
Now my players are livid and ready to give up on me and the adventure (admittedly, there are a few other issues too, it's not just the hero points).
So, I ask, nay--I plead desperately--what do you do to remind yourself to give out hero points?
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There's a couple of different things I've all used. I'm not deeply committed to any particular method.
- Tell your players that it's fine for them to remark "shouldn't we get another hero point by now".
- Give one after each nontrivial encounter (including some of the harder minigames).
- Wait until just before the most dangerous looking encounter and then give all pending ones. I use this one a lot in PFS scenarios where I know some encounter is important and hard and I don't want people blowing them on trivial stuff before that.
- If someone is in trouble, remark, "hey, I haven't given out any points in a while, why don't you take one".
- Mark in my adventure at the top of an encounter "HP time!"
What I haven't tried yet:
- If you know how long the session is going to last, just give out all the hero points for the whole session at the start (so people start with more than 1) and recovering from Dying doesn't use up all your pool, just 1. Lazy but practical.
In PFS you have the odd phenomenon that at higher level play, the proportion of GMs who are playing is higher. Every GM glyph you gain for GMing a lot allows you to give one hero point at the start of the session, but each character can gain only one HP that way. Often, everyone just starts with 2. So the more experienced tables also start with more HP.
The interesting thing though is that these plentiful HP don't make the game less fun. So I guess the lesson is, it's okay to be generous.
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I guess I would add a Hero Point recovery step during the 10 minutes + of recovery time after an encounter.
And tell my players about it so that they remind me if I forget.
Of course, sometimes the Hero Points gained are zero. But the step being always there helps build a routine.
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If the players really want them, give your players permission to ask for them. Remembering them is a 2 way street.
I use a physical object. I mean, I used to before the pandemic. But passing them out and taking them back when spent engages my brain more and helps me remember.
But mainly, I state to my players that my brain is full of things to keep track of and they won’t offend me by reminding me to hand out hero points.
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If the players really want them, give your players permission to ask for them. Remembering them is a 2 way street.
I use a physical object. I mean, I used to before the pandemic. But passing them out and taking them back when spent engages my brain more and helps me remember.
But mainly, I state to my players that my brain is full of things to keep track of and they won’t offend me by reminding me to hand out hero points.
Yeah this very much. Some GMs think it's a grave offense to beg for hero points. I don't agree. I got a lot on my mind and if people ask in a normal (not whiny or demanding, just normal) way then I'm quite happy to offload this one thing I have to think about.
I made hero cards for our table. I hand out 3 at the start of the session. One is the stabilize card and the other 2 are random cards. If they use the random cards on another players actions then at the end of the encounter they get the card back. If they use the random card for one of their own actions, they lose the card for the rest of the session. So far its worked out quite well :)
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The PFS system of "now's a good time award a hero point" in the scenario text was highly useful to me in building the habit. If you're running APs or home brew, I would do the same. Go through your notes/material and add reminder text/sticky notes/whatever works for you at estimated 1 hour points. You'll get pretty good at pacing without the notes after running ~10 sessions with the notes.
And just being time aware, its easier online than off to have a clock visible on your screen or desk, than sometimes at a venue. You're able to check it periodically to tell how you're doing pacing wise. This might be more important for PFS and/or convention play where you need to finish in the set time, rather than a home game/AP that just runs to time.
As a GM (primarily PbP): I keep the Hero Points tally on the same page where I ask everyone to put their Perception modifiers. Every time I go to click that page, I see the Hero Points.
In a F2F game, I print out the scenario, and have color coded highlighting on it - I have a special color to remind me to hand out a Hero Point.
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I haven't played F2F for a while (Hero Point usage used to be a lot smaller before GMs started getting glyphs), but as a player, I often forgot that I have Hero Points, even when the GM hands out physical tokens in a F2F game. In PbP, I've stuck it into my tagline to I see it now and then; in F2F, I may never have used any.
I'm more likely to lobby for someone else getting a Hero Point than to use my own.
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I don't think asking for Hero Points is bad in general, but I think the way that players ask can be bad.
There's the type of request where the players (or one player) has done something special and everyone (or at least several people) feel that the GM would have initiated a Hero Point but forgot, so it's a reminder that's in line with other instances of Hero Points being handed out.
On the other hand, there's the type of request where primarily one player feels the GM is being a stingy Grinch, and is trying to convince the GM to hand out a Hero Point where the GM has decided not to. If you have a stingy GM, the time to address that is at the beginning of the session, not mid-combat when you just failed a Will save and are out of Hero Points for a reroll.
I think the "bottlecap" system on the Glass Cannon Podcast strikes the right balance between GM-initiated Hero Points and player-initiated.
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Now my players are livid and ready to give up on me and the adventure (admittedly, there are a few other issues too, it's not just the hero points).
If the distribution of Hero Points is the proverbial straw that's about to break the camel's back, I would probably initiate a global review of everything.
I mean, if you forgot to put your dishes away after dinner and your spouse started screaming about divorce ... to say there's a "few other issues" is a gross understatement.
I think that fixing only the Hero Point issue is going to calm your players down from "livid" to "seething." And then the next petty issue that comes up will also be blown way out of proportion as well.
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As a GM who tends to forget about Hero Points a lot, I have two solutions.
One is to check after every fight if there's cause to offer points.
The other, which I recommend, is to encourage your players to call out Hero Points for each other.
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Mostly, what I do is:
-Give em out after every non trivial encounter
-Give em out whenever the player cleverly subverts part of my plans
-Most importantly, let my players nominate themselves and others to get hero points.
I also bought a case of poker chips to represent hero points and actually have a fistful of chips in front of me behind the screen at all times. Even in the days of online gaming, the physical reminder helps me
In my Iron Gods campaign from 2015 to 2017, I was bad about giving out hero points. I explained that whenever a PC did something heroic, I became distracted figuring out the enemy's reaction to the action.
Therefore, my wife invented a system. After the game session, I would give out a hero point to the Most Valuable Player (MVP). We gradually developed a system where we would talk about the amazing stunts pulled by the players and decide on the MVP. If the MVP was at maximum hero points, I would give the hero point to someone else. If the session was particularly busy, I would give out two.
Talking about accomplishments gave a nice opportunity to praise our fellow players.
When we started a PF2 game last year, converting Ironfang Invasion to the new rules, we liked the MVP system so much that we decided to stick to PF1 rules for hero points, because awarding a hero point right before it vanished at end of game session would have been useless. The only change we made to adapt PF1 hero points to PF2 was that hero points could no longer give a +4 or +8 to rolls but could instead give a reroll.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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I set up a house rule for my Edgewatch game where I put hero points entirely in the hands of the players. Specifically, they can nominate other players, but not themselves, for a hero point 1/hour.
So far, it does not seem to be working very well, but they don’t blame me if no one gets a hero point :)
Mine isn't that I forget, it's that I need to come up with more reasons to award them.
I usually give them out for clever puns in game, heroic deeds, great ideas, thinking out of the box.
It just seems like I don't have that stuff come up enough.
On Nothing Ventured Nothing Gamed podcast, the GM has to give a hero point if he calls someone out by their player name instead of their character's name.
I've had problems with forgetting Hero Points, myself. In my experience, the best thing for me is to have a physical pile of Hero Points in front of me (I use poker chips that I carved symbols onto the center section of with a Dremel engraving bit, but it definitely doesn't matter what they are).
Unfortunately, that's only a meatpacking solution and doesn't translate well to online play. Some VTTs have got other features that can be used similarly (like making a card deck of hero points to deal to players in a Roll20 table), and that helps me some, but not as much as a physical pile does. Still, having the hero points be a thing that's in my field of vision is big, as a reminder.
Something I've tried once or twice (and which is similar to some things that have been said) that I picked up from another GM was to ask players at the end of an encounter who they thought did the most Hero Point-worthy thing. Results I saw on how well that went varied a lot with different players, but it might work for your group,and does make it a part of the routine, at least.
I've asked my players to help me remember. They have more incentive to remember than I do. :)
And if none of us remember, well then it's partly on them! lol
The more I've been reminded and gotten used to it, the more I've remembered to check the clock to see how much time has passed so I remember to give them a Hero Point per hour.
I've asked my players to help me remember.
*laughs nervously* Yeah, I tried that too...
Just found out that one player actively sabotaged my efforts by instructing the other players not to remind me, just so he could lord it over me later when I inevitably forgot again.
Like, WTF? Who does that? Has anyone else ever encountered behavior like that before?
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Rav, from this and other threads it sounds like at least some if not all of your players have significant un-fun behavioral problems. If I were you I would tell them that you can't tolerate this BS anymore and that they'll have to find another DM.
Now, about this specific thread: I too often forget to give out hero points, and my players generally forget to spend them. I've done several things to improve the situation:
1) If I have forgotten to award hero points in the previous session (as is usally the case) I begin the session with two hero points per player.
2) I distribute hero point coins to each player so that they have something physical to remind them. If we are playing on a VTT, that isn't possible, so I pointedly remind them that they have 2 hero points each and what they can use them for (rerolls, primarily).
3) Each time we complete an encounter (combat or non-combat) I pointedly distribute hero points, to a maximum of 3 points per player, and remind them again what they can use them for.
Once they get in the habit of using hero points, and I get in the habit of distributing them, we will try to return to the baseline of one hero point awarded per hour of gameplay.
It's all a question of habit, really. Players need to get in the habit of using their points for rerolls, and I need to get in the habit of handing them out. For us, it's still a relatively new system, and for this new system to work, both players and the DM need to change our habits and adapt to using the hero points system.
The other issues with your players don't have an easy solution. Either they get on board and accept that they have to work with you, the DM, to make the game work for everyone, or they don't. You, as the DM, only have one button to push, and you can't be afraid to push it. Your one button is the "game over" button. If they continue to have disruptive, anti-fun behavior, you push the "game over" button and say, "sorry, this isn't working out, I can't continue to play the role of DM in these circumstances. Thanks for coming, but you'll need to either find a new DM or change your behavior."
There is no magic wand to change your players' behavior. Either they get with the program, or you refuse to continue tolerating their antics.
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hero points
First let me say that your rash of recent threads has me at a loss for why you continue to tolerate your player's attitudes. Granted we are only getting a small peek into your games, but they seem to be confrontational with little to no respect for the GM. If that is even remotely true, I would encourage you to look for new players. Our current state of online gaming is outstanding for recruiting new players. I just started a new home campaign with a group of five "new" players who I met in org play and seemed like fun folks. That is in addition to two other campaigns I run (one is in hiatus) for people I have met through org play. Some live across country from me and I almost had a player from Europe join (the timing just didn't work out). Life is too short not to enjoy it, and gaming is a significant part of your free time. Don't let it go to waste with "bad" players just because they might be your friends or because its more convenient than looking for alternative. Good Luck!
I digress. My sessions tend to run 3-4 hours and like you I often find I forget to give out Hero Points. I especially don't like interrupting encounters to do so and some can run quite long. I ran one last night where one complex encounter ran into a another one so the whole thing lasted about an hour and forty-five minutes. It was intense and I wouldn't have wanted to interrupt it.
So, I just give every player a hero point at the start of each session. I can remember to do that and it means I can focus on the gameplay. I have five players so the rate of issue is a bit more frequent than the recommended one per hour, but it hasn't created a problem for us. Plus, it helps players know that if we are coming to the end of a session and they are hording three HPs, they should spend one or lose out on the new one issued new session. I also allow the player to take the better of the two rolls than the reroll replacing the original. This also works to encourage them to use the HPs more often. Sometimes, unexpectedly. Like to "crit fish."
Whatever you decide, make sure it is fair for everyone and convenient for you as a GM. You already have a ton on your digital plate. Anything you can do to lessen that burden is good for everyone.
Just found out that one player actively sabotaged my efforts by instructing the other players not to remind me, just so he could lord it over me later when I inevitably forgot again.
That's not even passive aggressive. That's straight up aggressive.
That would be enough for me to stop dealing with someone IRL. For a game, it would be a no brainer to boot them, no matter how extensive the friendship.
If that's his idea of "fun", I suspect you and he are never going to agree about what makes a game 'fun'.
I don't, this is actually the biggest reason I moved to the players receiving 1 + Half-Charisma-Mod-Rounded-Down on daily preparation hero points. I forget, and the default reward-structure-but-also-this-many thing feels bad to me, this also front loads them so people are more willing to use them, and adds something to charisma that makes anyone want a little, like all the other stats have.
Oh, and honestly I don't think your players are respecting or appreciating you, I get from the other thread that you want to give them the benefit of the doubt, but honestly with the added context of the one player sabotaging... I think you've crossed the rubicon in terms of your players being wangrods, never mind the player that did that (which should be an instant kick in my opinion) but even the other players enabling it was messed up.
I've read your posts on the game, and the care you put into GMing, you deserve better than this dude.
I've already proffered a few house rule options I've seen other GMs using, such as awarding 3 hero points at the start of every game, or having unused points roll over into the next game, but thus far they've all been rejected by my players.
Thus far I've gotten the impression that they prefer to play close to the RAW.
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Thus far I've gotten the impression that they prefer to play close to the RAW.
Well, you are the GM and at some point, you have to decide what to do. If the players are going to be uncooperative and disrespectful, and place demands on you, you are not prepared to meet, I would cancel the game and look for new players. Otherwise tell them to suck it up and follow the rule as you intend to implement it or don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.
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Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?
I told my players "You all are going to gain one hero point at the start of the game, plus a hero point for each 2h we play. "
When the game starts at 19h they begin the session with one point, they got one hero point at 21h and another at 23h. If we ever play past 01h, they gain another one.
In my games you can use a point after the roll to get a reroll, you can use a point before the roll to guarantee that you roll at least a 11 on a d20, or you can use two points to make a character survive a scene no matter what. Characters can give their own points to another character.
Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?
*sighs* Because they're jerks I've known for over 25 years. Jerks though they sometimes be, more still are they like brothers to me and mine. (And what brotherhood does not traditionally come with some low-level form of abuse?)
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Remind me again, why are you playing with jerks ?*sighs* Because they're jerks I've known for over 25 years. Jerks though they sometimes be, more still are they like brothers to me and mine. (And what brotherhood does not traditionally come with some low-level form of abuse?)
Well, the real question, and only you can answer it, is "are you actually having fun playing with them ?". Honestly ?
If you do despite the abuse, that's one thing.
But if you don't (and the fact that you posted not one, but two threads to adress the issue makes me think you're more distressed than you say), then to hell with them. Life is too short to bother with "friends" who make you feel bad.
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And what brotherhood does not traditionally come with some low-level form of abuse?
The healthy kind.
Write hero points down in your loot tables. "You find 500 gp on the bandits and a hero point."
At my home game, I keep a pile of poker chips in front of me and see it all the time, so remembering the Hero Points and giving them out in physical form isn't hard to remember. Problem is the -players- never remember they have them. Not my problem!
In PBP it is much harder to remember!