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I'm curious how we are all building are the summoner and what ability scores we feel are most important to building one.
I have made a one with Gnome/Assimar with the emissary background.
Stats Str -8 Dex 12 Con 12 Wis 14 Int 14 Cha 18
I built mine with the focus on skills with my summoner handling mental and eidolon on physical. I wanted a good spell dc and improve social skills so I went all-in on charisma. I plan for my summoner to be far away from combat but didn't totally want my AC total neglected so instead of having a 14 on con I put a boost in dex.
I chose angelkin as my 1st ancestry feat, so I have a lot of languages for flavor and range of skills. One of the benefits of a summoner is having two stat blocks but balancing the limited resource have.
Regardless of whatever else I'm doing, I want as much CON as possible.
The shared HP pool isn't a problem, but given that the Summoner's constitution is doing work for two bodies, we want as much as we can get.
Regardless of whatever else I'm doing, I want as much CON as possible.
The shared HP pool isn't a problem, but given that the Summoner's constitution is doing work for two bodies, we want as much as we can get.
Orc with d12 ancestry hp, Str 10, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10. I'm not auto crit when attacks come around, we have coon hp and saves are fine and a sprinkle of int for an extra skill and language.
Duskwalker Gnome, level 1 stats were Str 8, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 16. Ancestry feats were Unexpected Shift, Lifesense, Fortuitous Shift, Resist Ruin. Occult Eidolon.
Class Feats were Reinforce Eidolon, Tandem Movem, Marshall Dedication, Inspiring Marshall Stance, Transpose, Transmogrify, Resilient Evolution.
I don't remember my general and skill feats, but I definitely took toughness and some diplomacy feats.
Mine is a Tiefling, stat priority is Cha > Int > Con > Dex > Wis > Str, at least until 18 Int.
Its a Extinction Curse character, so Circus stuff is taking up several character options.
I took Medic Dedication at 2, Magical Evolution at 4 (for Shield Cantrip), Reinforce Eidolon at 6.
I'm the party healer, so I'm hard into Medicine and Heal spells. We also lack a true tanky type person, which is why I'm hard into being able to add some defense onto my Eidolon via stacking Shield and Reinforce.
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Look at all these thin summoners. Pathetic. How do you plan to play wrestle with your eidolon when you can barely carry any Bulk? Hit the gyms.
One of my players is currently playing a god caller in my homebrew campaign set in Sarkoris. She's currently running her stats as [16-12-14-10-10-16] I believe. She's a level 3 human aasimar Beast Summoner with a Champion (Liberator) archetype, worshiper of Pulura from her clan's history with the Shimmering Maiden.
Essentially she's a second meat shield on the field for her team that supports her Eidolon. She was previously an Oracle/Beastmaster before the release of the Summoner playtest.
Mechanically the only thing that has happen so far is for her and her Sarkorian god to be run over by a giant beetle. It wasn't a good day for the god or god caller.
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You only get 3 skills to legendary and the eidolon doesn't share face skills well.
I tanked Cha and boosted dex and con and wisdom. Boosting stealth, acrobatics and Athletics (for the eidolon).
16dex,16con.
I chose beast eidolon with a piercing primary(horn) and slashing secondary attacks.For race I choose orc to get some nice reactions and more HP to start. Start with 25hp at level 1.
For feats.
2- reinforce eidolon.
4- tandem move
6- hulking evolution
8- ranged evolution
10- transpose
12- summoner's call
14- towering evolution
16- spell guard evolution
18- resilient evolution
20- eternal boost
Idea is he gets big to take advantage of whirlwind maul and he draws attention when he's huge so reinforce, spell guard, towering, spell devourer (orc), ferocity (orc).
He has a ranged attack so he has some engagement versatility.
Summoners call reaction means he can charge and I can as a reaction call him to me. If I get caught in a bad position I can jump across.
Transpose means I can do weird things like have my eidolon climb then transpose to get the summoner to the top then he can climb his ass up again.
Or summoner's call means I can have him do something really risky that could get us killed and recall him to my position.
In actual play, it's incredibly boring and clunky. Because boost eidolon.
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Built a dwarf angel summoner.
2nd: Champion Dedication (Paladin)
4th: Champion's Reaction
I set him up to use his Champion's Reaction to protect the eidolon and provide an extra attack of opportunity unaffected by the shared MAP.
This made the eidolon very durable. Dwarf Con bonus. I picked the tough dwarf with more hps and the ancestry feat that gave him more hps.
Eidolon was very durable. The champion's reaction further boosted his durability.
None of the eidolon feats really mattered much.
Rounds consisted of a very simple routine:
1. Act Together: Boost Eidolon and attack.
2. Attack
3. Attack
Eidolon gets hit. Reaction Paladin protection. Reduce damage.
I bought ranged reprisal feat. Then a returning spear. I threw my returning spear.
Even with this combination, my damage paled in comparison to the barbarian who raged his way around the field with sudden charge and obliterated creatures. Barbarian is a tiefling with fiendish wings for flight once a day. He uses a Greatpick to smash things. He is Giant Instinct Rager who obliterates things.
Eidolon stood there fighting a Bullette alone at lvl 9. He wasn't ever in danger. Did fine. Damage was slow and steady much like a monk. It was effective, but exceedingly boring.
If you want to play a very good tank, I recommend the build. With your summoner spells you have heals. Your champion's reaction reduces his damage. You can avoid Shared MAP with the attack from Paladin reaction.
It's a MAD class that requires strength and dex on the Summoner as well. You don't really use Charisma for much as a summoner. In it's current iteration it's best to avoid actions that require spell attack rolls and save DCs given how slow your caster DC rises. Even eidolon class abilities won't have a very high save.
So focusing on martial capability combined with healing seems the most optimal way to build the eidolon-summoner path. The eidolon lacks effective versatility. You should build it like a martial with a very simple attack routine where the summoner PC doesn't do much.
No matter how many people tell you differently, the summoner and eidolon do not play as a separate character for combat. They play as a single character with all the penalties of a single character in battle.
For combat purposes:
1. Hit points like one character.
2. MAP like one character.
3. Shared actions.
4. Eidolon cannot act independently. You control all its actions and if you as a summoner cast a spell or some other action, your eidolon will stand there doing nothing.
The current iteration of the summoner is a martial character in two bodies when it comes to combat. You should build accordingly.
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I've built a party of 4 Summoners at this point, only thing I still am considering making a whole unique build for at this point is a character that enters combat alongside their Eidolon, but idk how possible that is outside of constructing and testing my own homebrew.
Current builds are all heavily archetyped.
Gourd Leshy Beast Summoner/Bard MC, Inspire Courage spammer and Spellcast-oriented, also happens to have Intimidation support.
Tengu Phantom Summoner/Loremaster, has the most Summoner feats with Tandem Move and Ranged Evolution to contribute from midrange, only one not running 18 Con by level 8 which is how far I built them out to. Uses Recall Knowledge as an Act Together option.
Hold-Scarred Orc Dragon Summoner/Beastmaster, utilizing Double Pet Power for some awesome blender turns. Has Distracting Summon Spell, but might drop it since its almost impossible to actually pull off. Uses Act Together to Command an Animal, loosely based off of V from DMC.
Unbreakable Goblin Divine Summoner/Medic/Herbalist, went all in on 1-Action Healing through Elixirs of Life and Doctor's Visitation as as an Act Together.
From the few fights I've done, class seems like its fun enough, just not sure I like how easy it was for me to dump class feats for Archetype feats. That said, Beastmaster Summoner had one of my favorite single turns Ever, so the class is definitely doing something right somewhere.
Play experience and sheets are being logged in the following thread:
4 Summoners vs PFS 1-25, Grim Symphony
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I posted my summoner in his own thread, Cirieo Thassaddin, Summoner. I am the GM of my PF2 Ironfang Invasion campaign, so I converted an NPC into a summoner.
I posted my summoner in his own thread, Cirieo Thassaddin, Summoner. I am the GM of my PF2 Ironfang Invasion campaign, so I converted an NPC into a summoner.
I'm going to be GMing a PF2 game in two weeks, so NPCs and opponents is the only chance I'll have to test this with my group.
The player for my playtest one-shot went for a dragon that did very well with its frenzy. He had 10-16-16-14-10-19 at level 8. That Charisma only came into play when the dragon used its breath weapon, but it was pretty good at finding a position and blasting in a cone.
This is what I'm doing with my Summoner
Summoner Goblin Level 8
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 19
Charhide Goblin
Burn It
Goblin Scuttle
Animal Whisperer
Toughness
Armor Proficiency
Intimidating Glare
Continual Recovery
Battle Cry
Train Animal
Plains Lore
Skills
Initimadtion, Nature (exp), Stealth, Medicine, Athletics
Beast Eidolon
STR 18 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 14, CHA 12
Spells:
Electric Arc, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Tangle Foot, Guidance
Flaming Sphere/Haste, Fireball, Aerial Form, Heal
Feats
REINFORCE EIDOLON
TANDEM MOVE
OSTENTATIOUS ARRIVAL
ALACRITOUS EVOLUTION
Equipment
Crossbow +1 Striking, Flaming
Leather Armour +1 resilient
They will try to set the beast up in the first round. Then Fireball/Atack on their second round.
Not a lot happening here with reactions. But the NPC party will be two of these plus a Cloistered Cleric-Marshall who will be buffing and using To Battle a lot, plus a Fighter Rogue.
Summoner Goblin Level 8
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 20
Am I missing something? How did you get Charisma to 20 at level 8?
Am I missing something? How did you get Charisma to 20 at level 8?Summoner Goblin Level 8
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 20
GM can do anything. Fixed
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This is what I'm doing with my Summoner
Summoner Goblin Level 8
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 19
Charhide Goblin
Burn It
Goblin Scuttle
Animal Whisperer
Toughness
Armor Proficiency
Intimidating Glare
Continual Recovery
Battle Cry
Train Animal
Plains LoreSkills
Initimadtion, Nature (exp), Stealth, Medicine, Athletics
Beast Eidolon
STR 18 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 14, CHA 12Spells:
Electric Arc, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Tangle Foot, Guidance
Flaming Sphere/Haste, Fireball, Aerial Form, HealFeats
REINFORCE EIDOLON
TANDEM MOVE
OSTENTATIOUS ARRIVAL
ALACRITOUS EVOLUTIONEquipment
Crossbow +1 Striking, Flaming
Leather Armour +1 resilientThey will try to set the beast up in the first round. Then Fireball/Atack on their second round.
Not a lot happening here with reactions. But the NPC party will be two of these plus a Cloistered Cleric-Marshall who will be buffing and using To Battle a lot, plus a Fighter Rogue.
I did finally get to run the summoners, as an encounter against my PCs. They preformed moderately but not really well. There opponents were PCs of the same level 8, Rogue/Monk/Fighter(ArcaneArcher)/Fighter(Ape)/Wizard. So outnumbered 5:4
They had reasonable durability because of the cleric. The most damage I did was when a summoner managed to get 4 PCs in a Fireball including a Critical Failure.
Ostentation Arrival was cool but not a lot of damage. The players didn't appreciate that they got no saving throw.
The party was fairly mobile, so Beast's Charge was good.
But the bottom line for me is that the Summoner had little that they were really good at. The Eidolon just did not do enough damage to justify its existance. The PCs were pulling off manevers for big bonuses, The Eidolon just had basic strike. Its just not enough.
The battle turned when the Arcane Archer did 81 points of damage in a critical hit, and the cleric went down. Ouch.
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This is what I'm doing with my Summoner
Summoner Goblin Level 8
STR 10 DEX 16 CON 18 INT 10 WIS 12 CHA 19
Charhide Goblin
Burn It
Goblin Scuttle
Animal Whisperer
Toughness
Armor Proficiency
Intimidating Glare
Continual Recovery
Battle Cry
Train Animal
Plains LoreSkills
Initimadtion, Nature (exp), Stealth, Medicine, Athletics
Beast Eidolon
STR 18 DEX 18 CON 16 INT 8 WIS 14, CHA 12Spells:
Electric Arc, Produce Flame, Ray of Frost, Tangle Foot, Guidance
Flaming Sphere/Haste, Fireball, Aerial Form, HealFeats
REINFORCE EIDOLON
TANDEM MOVE
OSTENTATIOUS ARRIVAL
ALACRITOUS EVOLUTIONEquipment
Crossbow +1 Striking, Flaming
Leather Armour +1 resilientThey will try to set the beast up in the first round. Then Fireball/Atack on their second round.
Not a lot happening here with reactions. But the NPC party will be two of these plus a Cloistered Cleric-Marshall who will be buffing and using To Battle a lot, plus a Fighter Rogue.
I did finally get to run the summoners, as an encounter against my PCs. They preformed moderately but not really well. There opponents were PCs of the same level 8, Rogue/Monk/Fighter(ArcaneArcher)/Fighter(Ape)/Wizard. So outnumbered 5:4
They had reasonable durability because of the cleric. The most damage I did was when a summoner managed to get 4 PCs in a Fireball including a Critical Failure.
Ostentation Arrival was cool but not a lot of damage. The players didn't appreciate that they got no saving throw.
The party was fairly mobile, so Beast's Charge was good.But the bottom line for me is that the Summoner had little that they were really good at. The Eidolon just did not do enough damage to justify its existance. The PCs were pulling off manevers for big bonuses, The Eidolon just had basic strike. Its just not enough.
The battle turned when the Arcane Archer did 81 points of damage in a critical hit, and the cleric went down. Ouch.
The eidolon's attack routine is super boring. If they make the summon creatures supporting it viable, I'd give that a shot. But at the moment the eidolon's are reskinned images of what they're supposed to be with very generic stats and nothing to make them seem like the creatures they are other than a few powers they get, which you could emulate with a spell, potion, weapon rune, or feat. They don't feel special or fantastic like they did in PF1. Their stats are very weak and exactly the same. Their attacks are all exactly the same. Their movement exactly the same.
The summoner went from one of the most versatile and interesting classes in the game with eidolons that were immensely customizable with a plethora of choices to a generic template eidolon with a few thematically appropriate powers tacked on.
This class is so hard to balance in PF2 and make interesting at the same time.
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Took my concept to level 20. A orc beast summoner. That uses buff spells and focuses on the eidolon.
This concept worked fine until high level where it completely feel apart due to eidolon no longer being viable for you capping it's str at 20, no apex items, etc. I became truly a weak bard with a awkward pet at that level.
This means that my concept won't last, it works prior to high level fine.
If a concept doesn't scale, it's a fail. I shouldn't have to change my character concept that was working fine just because you didn't factor in this.
Since then, after multiple tests, I've scrapped the summoner for this and multiple other reasons. I'll wait hopeful for the released version but the one as it currently stands is unable to sustain a single concept without falling apart as you level. Much like warpriest.
If warpriest and swashbuckler becomes the benchmarks for new classes over time, I'll be home brewing alternatives that don't disappoint so much. Good day.
Kobold summoner with a Dragon Eidolon, level 4 to solo through "Little Trouble in Big Absalom".
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, Wis, 12, Cha 18
Picked Synthesis and Magical Evolution, as I basically played a Weredrake. Really would have like to had the ability to boost my eidolon, but alas, the RP made other demands.
Eidolon Cantrips came in handy, as did the breath weapon. Set snares (and crafted myself potions) as a summoner, let the enemy get tripped up, and went to work.