Creative Burst's page

Ok we had four of the spell list revealed. For those who do not like this change what are your thoughts one those schools.

With the changes I think to what Mark Shifter said when this change was announced. That them being specialist in 8 spell school made it that you had to make sure they were good at each one and had a similar range of options. That had to be maintained whenever they added new spell. Yes with the new schools have a limited list but I think it good for the health of the wizard. Each school has a strong theme and we will get more which we wouldn't have gotten before. I think of it as a one step back to go two steps forward.

That why I think most evil deities are safe except for Zon-Kuthon because there is a greater evil that corrupted him that could possible step into replace. And there is a narrative tragic that you could spin it as the brother Shelyn so long try to free is died.

It is important to remember that will Asmodeus is the most D&D of the core 20 he still comes from Abrahamic religions and is in the public domain. He has some accept of Satan being the leader of Hell in D&D. That not enough to make him unique enough to be a problem for Paizo, as Satan stand in are a dime a dozen.

I gave it some thought and put the core dieties in 3 categories whether I think they are likely, somewhat, or not going to die.

Likely to die

Zon-Kuthon- He might be one of the most interesting to die as we would learn how he became corrupted which would be a big reveal. His death would have an effect on Nidal and Shely. I think it would be played as something tragic and likely the being who corrupted an evil from outside reality would take his place on the Pantheon.

Pharasma- Her death I could see being the reason for the war as the one person everyone trusts to be a partial arbiter of souls is gone and the war ends when a successor is in place.

Nethys- God of Magic is dead would have a major effect on the world and can be an interesting story to tell but DnD has told the story of the god of magic dying plenty of times that puts it into question.

Gorum- His death would have an interesting impact as violence would become less prevalent and if it does happen for both those seeking to inflict pain and those seeking to do good. If he dies I imagine there would be this kind of stagnation as conflicts exist but remain unresolved till a new war god ascends.

Gozreh- Would be very interesting if not possibly world ending as it will affect nature itself and seeing how the literal world of Golorian adapts and changes because of it could be very interesting.

Somewhat Likely to die

Urgathoa- I do not think she will die as the undead are an important point of the meta of happenings in Golarion and I think that will be dealt with more in the end of 2e.

Shelyn- Her dying could have an effect as love is something everyone feels but there deities take her place quickly enough that I think damage would be minimal and I think with the story between her brother I think it would be more interesting if he died.

Norgorber- I don’t think he will die as it will mainly affect the criminal element which is not the shake up I think we are going to see. Plus righting a story about a god who keeps practicality everything about him secret would remove his majesty as you need to reveal so much.

Irori- I think the biggest impact would be on the Vundri people as their head god dies but not much outside of that so very unlikely.

Erastil- I don’t think he will die as he is a deity that keeps to the small scale. His death would have ramication as he is a god of community but he is one other the least likely to be involved in a war as he keeps to himself and his family.

Desna- This is one of if not the favorite of James Jacob which lessons the likelihood that she will die. If she did die it would affect travel and nightmare would become more prevalent and if she died the Black Butterfly would likely take her place.

Calistria- She would have some impact on elves and how they deal with relationships and those seeking revenge but I think it would be very little as most people only turn to her when they have a need for her. So her death would not be impactful to other deities.

Lamashtu- The idea of her dying is interesting but in the sense that it will shake up the Abyss but I when it comes to Golorian it wouldn’t have as much as others.

Cayden Cailean-The god that is very connected to the idea of being an adventure would be an interesting choice. As it would affect the player character and adventuring would become harder in a meta sense. Though I feel that which deity dies will be replaced and depending and I think other gods getting replaced has more interesting implications.

Abadar- James Jacob killed him when he was just his homebrew deity so at least he might be the inspiration of what will happen but I don’t think it will be him. (He explored what happens to civilization when the god of it dies.)

Torag- His death will affect dwarves and crafts has a similar problem to Shelyn as his void could be filled quickly as his wife and children could easily fill the void as they are all working towards a common purpose already. Though why he dies and how that affects Dwarves would be a good story with interesting ramifications

Asmodeus- There is a meta reason for him to die as Paizo with the Remaster is moving away from DnD even getting rid of non OGL things to distinguish them more.And will he be in public domain in TTRPG space he is very D&D. His death would have ripple so he is a possibility.

Not going to die

Rovagug- In a cage because they couldn’t kill it, not going to die.

Sarenrae- Not going to die linked to cleric Iconic

Iomedae- Not going to die linked to champion Iconic

Not according to James Jacobs who brought in Drow and involved in there implementation in Pathfinder and worked on them for D&D. I trust him when he says they are very much like D&D Drow and have no reason to disbelieve him because he should know better then anyone else.

Other in the fantasy industry have done it because there dark elves are not inherently Drow and that is not the case for Pathfinder. Pathfinder 2e has had dark elves in the carven elf heritage and will continue and be a better way to represent there kind of subterrain elf. Because they would have to change the Drow so much to not be recognizable and that would come with baggage and is better to have a clean slate.

And now they will finally receive specific lore in the setting.

Unwavering Mien, Otherworldly Magic, and Elven Weapon Familiarity are feats that would be useful and any other pf1 feature could be made into a feat as a pf1 races feature were turned into feats so it not a hard to do or just outright covert the Drow into its own ancestry.

Creative Burst wrote:

Temperans wrote:

Paizo did this for Golarion Drow, Salvatore did this for the general concept of drow. DnD didn't really do this.

Literally just look at all the dark elves through out fantasy to see that not every "dark elf" is just the DnD version. Golarion's dark elves are not the same as DnD dark elves. Sharing two or three things does not make Golarion and DnD drow the same when they have 10 differences.

Its like the meme of the woman saying its the same picture, but only against Drow.

James Jacob clearly stated that when Drow besides there origin were DnD Drow and before January had somethings since there first intro to differencing them but not enough for them to be distinct from Dnds.

Yes there can be many types of dark elves. Cavern Elves will be for Golorian nots something Drow like that could get them sued.

Yes. In that comment its me saying "It would had been great if they took the last few steps to finish the separation. Like with a previous comment were I suggested accelerating the timeline to how the Drow arrived in Apostae and took over that planet. Or adding in a new big bad that destroys them without just saying "it never happened".

As has been stated before there no good place for those. Plus Starfinder the gap is a signifier of a separation from Pathfinder something that keeps them narratively separate. Bringing them Apstae would ruin that. Also killing an entire people group especially one as popular as Drow would still make people upset but be deeply distasteful.

They only had two option Paizo had were just outright change them so much that they couldn't be recognized as Drow or remove them. One is a lot more work and will still cause backlash and if your changing something so rapidly it easier just to swap it with something else. Which is what they are doing.

Paizo did this for Golarion Drow, Salvatore did this for the general concept of drow. DnD didn't really do this.

Literally just look at all the dark elves through out fantasy to see that not every "dark elf" is just the DnD version. Golarion's dark elves are not the same as DnD dark elves. Sharing two or three things does not make Golarion and DnD drow the same when they have 10 differences.

Its like the meme of the woman saying its the same picture, but only against Drow.

James Jacob clearly stated that when Drow besides there origin were DnD Drow and before January had somethings since there first intro to differencing them but not enough for them to be distinct from Dnds.

Yes there can be many types of dark elves. Cavern Elves will be for Golorian nots something Drow like that could get them sued.

Verbal, somatic, and material as tag was just a way to imply certain traits and those traits are just going to be shown outright. It not a change in how things are presented not in how they spells work.

Eric Mona on the Roll for Combat Q&A already said that rogues is getting martial proficiency and wizards are getting simple.

How does Iomedae think of Aranzi?

keftiu wrote:

Gisher wrote:

The Daikyu now has a reload of "0" rather than "–" and it now has the propulsive trait.

That's fun; you take a Composite Longbow and trade out losing Deadly d10 for not having to deal with Volley at all. I don't know if it's a great trade (is Volley a big deal? I don't feel like I've ever heard about it), but at least the Daikyu has an identity now.

Avoiding volley without needing access to point-blank shot seems nice, but I'm not clear how you get access to a Daikyu. It's weird that it still lacks the monk trait. I thought it was intended for use with Monastic Archer Stance. (It's also weird that this line is still in the description despite the fact that the game doesn't have any rules for facing: "Using a daikyu while mounted limits its ring range to your left side.")

It uncommon because it sense it a real world Japanese weapon and would be from Tian Xia not the Inner Sea.

Do we know when it's going to be released?

They not giving a specific date because things can change but they are well into making the character creator and expect to show off some of it soon.

Those are just bad gm and I think the hierarchy of importance of the code is very clear. It starts with the tenants of good or evil which has your deities anathema at the top. So a liberator of Cayden Cailean would be:

I won't waste alcohol, be mean or standoffish when drunk, own a slave, or willingly commit an evil act, such as murder, torture, or the casting of an evil spell.
I will never knowingly harm an innocent, or allow immediate harm to one through inaction when you know you could reasonably prevent it.
I must respect the choices others make over their own lives, and you can’t force someone to act in a particular way or threaten them if they don’t
I must demand and fight for others’ freedom to make their own decisions. You may never engage in or countenance slavery or tyranny.

My two sense of the matter.

Arcane know through study so intelligence

Occult is about stories and narratives. These things are created and manipulated through charisma but when studying these things your breaking down into patterns and component parts, so it is intelligence.

Nature is the most strange as it in are world is actual science but it more spiritual. I think the most common way of understanding nature is through a spiritual connection those nature is wisdom and more scientific is covered in lore skills.

Religion is mostly understood through constipation interpatient. It not just memorization but understanding the application and the fact that there is more then one interpretation, so wisdom.

I don't like how the road least traveled for bards is to pour all their points into Charisma and Performance and never touch Intelligence or Occultism. I also think that the defining class for a spell list should be a prepared spellcasting class because an occult class can make use of the entire list rather than a select subset of spells.

Witch has the right ability spread and spellcasting style, but is an any list caster who derives their power from their patron, not their understanding of or connection to the subject of their tradition. Wizards fall under the former category: clerics and druids the latter. (No, abberations and spirits are not the subject of occultism any more than dragons are the subject of Arcana.)

Psychics are a spontaneous spellcasting class like the bard, and psychic magic is presented as a specialized subset of occult magic common only in select regions, which rubs me the wrong way.

It feels like if I want to play as a seer or a medium I have to take some kind of back door. Either a. become a performer, b. make a pact with some mysterious and powerful entity, or c. become a psychic. D, where you intuitively understand the threads of fate or the world of spirits and are a scholar of the weird and inexplicable is currently not an option, and I wish it were.

Bard with Enigma muse seem very much like they would want intelligence as they have most inventive compared to the other muses and even then it does mean they completely ignore it. Bards can be scholars and in fact songs and stories are common ways people pass these things down things bard would study and flavor paragraph of the bard says that they can be scholars. Also a witch can be a scholar or any class. You don't have to get magic through study to be a scholar and most I would say seek a deeper understanding of there magic that is why they are trained in the skill. So your D option is not about having a class similar to the wizard but how you portray your character.

I also disagree on your point on prepared caster vs spontaneous. Yes prepared have an easier time preparing other spell but no class uses all the spells on there list.

I’d be very interested in this service if I were just getting started with 2E so my initial book purchases were “compatible,” but I’m a day-one whole-line subscriber to 2E, so if I were going to jump into this, at least the way I understand the pricing, I have to either drop several hundred dollars at once to be able to use content I’ve already purchased or I’d be buying into a hobbled system. Neither of those appeals to me.

I can only assume I’m not the target market, because if I am and this is how they’re targeting me it’s a big miss. On the other hand, I’m not sure I understand how wise it is to not target folks who are deeply invested in the game your product supports.

In either event, unless I totally misunderstand the pricing structure or, in the alternative, some other pricing structure appears, I’ll be staying away from this service, and every product that I purchase outside this service will push me farther away. That said, I wish them luck.,

One thing to remember is that it is not official launch. With the compendium being free it even clear then it already was that we are paying for features and not all of them are out yet. And yes at this stage you would have to pay for the whole book but later you can just buy parts.

For I would check out the features through the free primer see how you like there tooltips and the character sheet when they get that up and running. Decided passed on that if it worth investing in and by that point you should be able to buy parts individually and can just get what you need at that moment.

There is something I would like clarified, as it stands now the FAQ heavily implies that you lose access to the free pdf if you delete your nexus account as it was not "purchased directly from paizo" but given freely by nexus.

I don't think it implies as the question for there digital content the pdf is provided by Paizo not Demiplane. It is up to Paizo not Demiplane what would happen to the pdf.

I didn't say that Shelyn would consider crude Art to not be Art.

What I'm claiming is the concept that some art is crude and some isn't, the idea that some art is greater than other art (stated outright in her Anathema) strongly implies to me that there IS an objective standard (or something closely approximating one) by which the relative merits of different pieces of Art can be measured.

So yeah, maybe everything that anybody considers to be Art IS Art. But a lot of it may be pretty bad art.

I think crude art is more referring to skill of the artist. Shelyn admires all creative endeavors no matter the skill level. Crude to me is not ref

I actually going to school to become a Graphic Designer, so I have an opinion on what is consider art. Art to me is about bring a ideas to life. An interesting art piece to me is One and Three Chairs a conceptual art piece as it challanges what makes something something. There are so many beautiful ways to create an express yourselves and that is what Shelyn care about. I also don't think she distinguish think crafts are not art as that itself is separation only found in western culture in our world and I would consider only in Avistan in Golorian. SO weather you making a quilts, a pots, representational art oil painting, abstract expressionism, and everything beyond and in-between.

The only art I can imagine Shelyn being against is artistic endeavors intended to hurt and disadvantage others.

Just because you don't like Maurizio Cattelan style of conceptual art pieces (as modern art is technically it own style period I now it stupid) or any kind of style or medium. They are artist that have there own way of expression and not everyone will gel with every style.

Erastil is also more home focus and in are career focus society for the longest time the home has been regulated to women and that perspective was accidently put into him.

I do believe that a place that James Jacob to put correction as he has mentioned that he think there should be a lore errata page.

Below is a post by staff on Demiplane forum about the pricing
____________________________
Thanks for the feedback, and I will be straightforward and transparent with our response to it - the economics of our licensing agreement make this the case.

For all future releases, you will be able to take advantage of the Pathfinder Nexus + PDF pricing. For those previous purchases, we have to make those adjustments based on the way our licensing works.

We (naturally) felt it was still very worthwhile to allow for as much of a discount as possible on those previous purchases instead of the alternative of providing no discount.

Thanks again!
_____________________________

The pricing of 29.99 is for unavoidable economics of them needing a license from Paizo. Also have a physical copy and a digital one are two different and only the price is comparable. It should also be noted when buying your also paying for the integration of the tools which should become a better and better deal over time.

captivator architype is going to have an errata as there is problem with dedication and another feat being first lvl. Which is a mistake according to Mark.

A book in the Lost Omens Line.

Despite that, the Eidolon entry also says:

...each draws upon a particular tradition of magic and manifests from related essence.

Meaning that you are not bringing the creature but "creating" it.

It also say:
"Though a true angel, your angel eidolon’s link to you
as a mortal prevents them from casting the angelic
messenger ritual, even if they somehow learn it."

"Your eidolon is a lost soul, bound to the mortal world
by undying anger or a bitter grudge."

"Your eidolon is a demon, born of mortal sin
congealed amid the chaos and evil of the Abyss,
using its link to you to spread chaos at your side."

"Because dragons have a strong connection to magic,
their minds can often leave an echo floating in the
Astral Plane. Such an entity is extremely powerful but
unable to interact with the outside world on its own.
Dragon eidolons manifest in the powerful, scaled forms
they had in life;"

Each Eidolon types gives a description of what it is or how it came to be.

Sheyln has two skills offer performance and crafting. If your a cleric and background makes you trained in one do you have to pick the other or can you just pick a skill like normal if you got the skill from somewhere else?

They hope to here update from last item (tech revolution) in next hour an likely create order this afternoon and start shipping tomorrow or Wednesday.

They hope to here update from last item (tech revolution) in next hour an likely create order this afternoon and start shipping tomorrow or Wednesday.

I think for TN tenants of preservations I think would work. Pharasma want to protect the cycle of life and death, Gozreh wants it for nature, and Nethys to protect and spread magic. Brigh cares about protecting and expanding artificial life.

It should be noted the shipping estimate have not changed.

One his main goal is the expansion and growth of society and teaches that wealth and comfort are a way to achieve happiness. Neither of these things are good or evil. He cares about wealth and the health and expansion of city's and not much else.

"Magus now have Hybrid Studies instead of synthesis: Two handed, laughing shadow which is high movement and free hand, Shield sword and board, archer, staves."

Got this from a reddit post that went over what was revealed in the secrets of magic panel.

Reddit Post.

August release schedule thread us up they said not all products are in the warehouse don't know if Secret of Magic is one of them but we should not if there are any changes to release on Thursdays.

August new release thread..

It has already been delayed twice I think the push back to expecting at the 25th because of shipping issues.

I have work so, I'll will catch it on Youtube.

Unless you manually put it in you have to buy it on Roll20. Once you buy Foundry you own it and don't have to pay again. There are tech requirements to run it (they are on their website).

Most casters named here are BBEG. A Druid BBEG is a bit more complicated to motivate than a Wizard. And a Cleric BBEG is only a servant for their evil deity.

Not to mention that Evil theocracy seems to be a theme absent from Golarion.

Nidal says hi

The errata includes rules that drawing a tool to use them in an action as part of that action, so the psychic battle medicine is dead.

CRB 287 "You can make a set of tools (such as alchemist’s tools or healer’s tools) easier to use by wearing it. This allows you to draw and replace the tools as part of the action that uses them."

Midnightoker wrote:

Perhaps I’m wrong on healers tools, I just assumed all kits use two hands and the worn items text on tools worn in that way describes them as being usable with one hand (and you’re limited to 2Bulk tools worn in this way)

Yes, kits use 2 hands: full stop. Nothing under worn reduces this number that I can see. Worn alter only the number of actions to draw it but does nothing to number of hands.

This means battle medicine is untenable for the majority of characters I'd want it on as they don't have 2 hands free.

bugleyman wrote:

248: To reflect the clarification on healer's tools allowing you to draw them as part of the action if you're wearing them, change the Requirements to "You are holding healer's tools, or you are wearing them and have a hand free"

Cool but that doesn't override the 2 hands needed to use the tools that this says in the errata "This means you need to use your healer's tools for Battle Medicine, but you can draw and replace worn tools as part of the action due to the errata on wearing tools on page 287." As I said, unless they've changed how many hands you need to use the healers tools, that errata quote means it needs 2 hands.

My logic in how it is one had is that it either holding or wearing in a bandolier has it a bandolier is like holding it in two hands and so you only need a hand to take it out. That's is how I interpret it.

Creative Burst wrote:

Have you redownload it because I did and mine does.

Yep - I redownloaded the pdf. I'm looking at a pdf with "2nd printing" in its filename. I'm seeing on page 288 there is no mention of an item called "bandolier," which makes me believe I'm looking at the updated pdf. And then on pages 75 and 76, I'm seeing armor mastery / expertise class features that only name light armor and unarmored defense, with no mention of medium armor. The list of class features on page 72 also only mentions light armor proficiency increases at 13th and 19th levels.

Look on page 71 and yea the proficiency increases are not there.

Have you redownload it because I did and mine does.

graystone wrote:

Xenocrat wrote:

So you need a hand free to use a worn item, right?

Yes. Worn just changes how many actions it takes to draw/retrieve it.

PS: I also wanted to note that the FAQ page is VERY hard to read, possibly because of my colorblindness. Any chance of swapping the color to easier to read ones?

And does this actually settle battlefield medicine?

Yes

I think it more of the fact that the CRB is the core rules and everything else is an add-on. So I think for non-society it more on what books the GM has allowed and CRB that there assuming is generally used. For Society, I think sense, not every player will have every book this system is to help balance between a player who has all the books and one who just made it with CRB.

Rysky wrote:

Again, distinction without a difference.

I'm beginning to think you don't understand what that phrase means as there ARE very clear and distinct differences between the two specifically put in place to make an eidolon NOT a summoned creature. An eidolon can, for instance, "summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost" where a summoned can't. They can't be banished or targeted but effects that work on summoned. THEY ARE NOT SUMMONED CREATURES and act and react differently to the game world: as such it isn't semantics and far from irrelevant to point out that they and summoned are NOT the same. Do you think Circle of Protection, Antimagic Field, Protection works on them like a summoned creature? If not, it's NOT summoned. Do you think Final Sacrifice works on them? If not, they are not a summoned creature.

Summoned
Source Core Rulebook pg. 637
A creature called by a conjuration spell or effect gains the summoned trait.

Manifest eidolon
Playtest
Your eidolon doesn’t have the summoned or minion trait

I think this a yes but no situation. Mechanically speaking it not a summon as it does have the tag or limitation of a summon. But thematically it is a creature that is summoned making it a summon in that since.

KrispyXIV wrote:

Verzen wrote:

There is a 25% chance of creating the exact same Eidolon at level 1.

And a 100% chance of creating an Eidolon that feels practically the same at level 1 since every single Eidolon feels the same. Their level 1 ability is meh and doesn't really change much of the feel of them.

Vezren, I just laid out the mechanical differences in Eidolons at level 1. Theres a ton of them.

And I didnt even have to pull out the "in a roleplaying game, descriptive differences of appearance, personality and being are all fully relevant whether you like it or not".

Its simply factually not true that any Eidolons are identical, unless their creators intend for them to be so.

No. There isn't. Show me where there is customization with the Eidolon itself aside from "picking an Eidolon package"

There isn't. No. Skills do not count. Eidolons suck at all skills and have zero skill feats.

Using your imagination to say well, their attacks are different. No. They aren't. They ALL deal 1d8 damage. They have zero crunch. I don't know how else I can explain this to you.

Skills an Eilodolns can be good at

Also I think there is a chance Eilodolns could have varied ability scores but I don't know by how much. I think they're so similar in the palytest is so it a constant in the data.

I hope they re-think this before release. No matter how many people want to make summoner fans believe they need some kind of blood bond with their eidolon, that is not what the majority of PF1 summoner fans wanted in a summoner class. Summoning a pet or minion is about having a powerful creature under your control that will die for you if necessary, not with you.

Honestly, I don't get this point of view there are plenty of ways to summon minions in this game.The idea of Eidolon being another minion only meant to serve is boring to me. Plus I think if and Eidolon was regulated to being a minion it would have all the restrates that all other minions have. Which would make it much weaker. We don't need a bond techically the summoner does need to be a class it could have been an archytype. But the bond themanicically interesting to me. This may not be interesting to you. Plus you can't speak for all summoner player PF1 no one can.

Martialmasters wrote:

KrispyXIV wrote:

-Poison- wrote:

manbearscientist wrote:

Had they been playing a 6 HP per level class with a 6-8 HP per level Eidolon that demanifested when unconscious, they would have gone down and the fight probably would have been lost. This is even worse than just being an 8 HP druid in that scenario, as not only class HP important to survive but the animal companion can still act a little while he's dropped.

Or you could be a 6HP caster that's able to lifelink the 10HP Eidolon the health it needs to tank the hit instead; a more flavorful and elegant solution in the mind of many.

And just straight up massively more powerful, as it's literally two character's worth of hp with no drawbacks.

Thats not balanced.

Last I checked a animal companion is a d8 creature? Maybe d6. And a ranger is a d10 class. Witch amounts to 10+ con and 6/8+con worth in classes. That's not even discussing a barbarian taking the beast master dedication.

And I do not believe the druid with animal companion is the fairer option just because you have 4 slots.

So a 6hp summoner with 10hp eidolon is not past the curve by any stretch of the imagination. Because you are not a full caster, but part of you is technically a full martial, just without any feats.

Would the life link have an action cost? If not, it just sounds like you're building a frontliner with d16 Class Hit Die and 2x Con, which is much different from an Animal Companion who regularly runs max HP somewhere between 50-75% that of a Martial.

@krispy do you know which thread the Seifter quote about exploration is in? Its how I assumed it worked but the confirmation is always welcome.

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs436gn?Exploration-and-the-Summoner

For Ranger and Druid an animal companion is optional and they are completely functional without one. The same for any class with the beast master. Eidolon is not and is integral to the summoner so how they are balanced together as the core of class are these two working together.

You know you could always just let players pick how HP works without costing a feat. But so many of you are very against even having evolution points because they are "too many choices".

So I don't know anymore.

The problem with the evolution system is balancing it against the feats. If eidolon it will affect the kind and how many feats we have or the power of the class could rise too quickly. Having evolution be tied to feat is better as it a system of power progression already integrated into to system. The way familiar works won't work here as an eidolon is meant to be in combat. If we got evolution points I think we get a lot fewer feats which I think will be a bad thing.

Creative Burst wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

And that's where the agree to disagree begins. Life Link was a choice to sacrifice personal life force to have the Eidolon maintain its connection to the Material Plane. The Summoner was not bound to do so whatsoever other than because they wanted to (or were dominated to for some reason, who knows, but beside the point).

Compare that to "You share the same HP, and anything that affects one affects the other, which stacks," and you are talking about a completely different mechanic that does not even closely match the intent or capability of Life Link in PF1.

Again, saying you liked Lifelink more is valid.

Saying being able to share HP doesn't make sense but you were fine with Lifelink is not, it's hypocritical.

It's hardly hypocritical, any more than saying you like the Shield Cantrip, but not like wielding a Sturdy Shield.

You can have all kinds of different reasons to dislike things that have differences, such as not requiring a free hand (or speaking), liking the automatic scaling hardness that doesn't eat into your WBL, being straight-jacketed into one shield type and nothing else because they break too damn easy, and so on.

We're taking something too much at face value and not taking into account the significant differences they possess, and the ramifications and consequences behind those differences. You want shared HP? Fine. Now you're being nuked twice by the same higher-level Fireball. I really doubt players find that to be a fun or enjoyable mechanic unless they are on the dealing end of that exchange.

You don't get nuked twice you get once just like everyone else because you take the worse result and there is 10th lvl feat that makes you take the better.

Okay, so it's not unlike playing a game of Chess, except instead of having a King and a Queen, you now have 2 Kings. It's objectively twice as easy to Checkmate you, and...

Except your part of a party, it not just your eidolon but your fellow player to have your back. Playing each other strengths and covering weaknesses is part of the game. Summoner may have a lower ac but so does wizard and cloistered cleric and just like them they expect other character to help keep them from harms way.

Rysky wrote:

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

And that's where the agree to disagree begins. Life Link was a choice to sacrifice personal life force to have the Eidolon maintain its connection to the Material Plane. The Summoner was not bound to do so whatsoever other than because they wanted to (or were dominated to for some reason, who knows, but beside the point).

Compare that to "You share the same HP, and anything that affects one affects the other, which stacks," and you are talking about a completely different mechanic that does not even closely match the intent or capability of Life Link in PF1.

Again, saying you liked Lifelink more is valid.

Saying being able to share HP doesn't make sense but you were fine with Lifelink is not, it's hypocritical.

It's hardly hypocritical, any more than saying you like the Shield Cantrip, but not like wielding a Sturdy Shield.

You can have all kinds of different reasons to dislike things that have differences, such as not requiring a free hand (or speaking), liking the automatic scaling hardness that doesn't eat into your WBL, being straight-jacketed into one shield type and nothing else because they break too damn easy, and so on.

We're taking something too much at face value and not taking into account the significant differences they possess, and the ramifications and consequences behind those differences. You want shared HP? Fine. Now you're being nuked twice by the same higher-level Fireball. I really doubt players find that to be a fun or enjoyable mechanic unless they are on the dealing end of that exchange.

You don't get nuked twice you get once just like everyone else because you take the worse result and there is 10th lvl feat that makes you take the better.