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People like Magus and Summoner in PF1 because of how those classes played.
They were not asking for Magus or Summoner to get some weird classes that dont come anyway near to how those classes felt to play. And actively going against that feeling is equivalent of spitting in the face of all those players who were asking for those classes.
As it stands neither of these two classes are the Magus or Summoner. They are phonies at best and at worst false advertisement (bait and switch).
PF1 Summoner was basically 2 characters: The Summoner and the Eidolon. 2 characters are equivalent of a character 2 levels above. So, for the Summoner to be balanced, both the Eidolon and the Summoner should be level -2 creatures. I already made the calculations somewhere before, but it means ending at Trained Proficiency for Armors, Weapons, Saves, Expert Proficiency for skills and Master Proficiency for spellcasting. Basically, you're playing 2 big piles of boo. I'm not sure anyone would have fun playing that even if it plays "like in PF1".
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PF1 Summoner was basically 2 characters: The Summoner and the Eidolon.
'Basically' is generous. The original, not Unchained Summoner was better than many pairs of characters.
The Summoner themself had an accelerated spell progression and an idealized wish-list spell list that was absolutely bonkers, focused on two of the best spell lists for buffing and wrecking encounters.
The Eidolon, was with zero effort, better than non-optimized Martial characters. With reasonable effort, it was beyond insane.
The Unchained Summoner presented a significant nerf to both, but the results you could achieve were still essentially two decent characters, and it was only balanced relative to something like a Druid with an animal companion... something which was also over the top.
No wonder people 'enjoyed how they played'.
Give me this playtest version any day after those. At least my friends will enjoy playing games with me.
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Any class with maximum Int/Wis and access to a roll twice focus power and/or a "boost your result" feat is better than a summoner and his eidolon because the summoner can't max a recall knowledge attribute and the eidolon lags heavily in mental stats. An investigator with knowledge domain power or the enigma bard reroll can crush these.And yet Bidi is objectively correct here - no one else can roll Recall Knowledge better than a summoner and an Eidolon, whose recall knowledge DCs get harder slower and whom can roll a second check after failing.
First, the Summoner can have near max Int/Wis as he doesn't have any important stat besides Constitution (Charisma can be dumped).
Second, the Summoner can also have a reroll.
Third, 2 rolls is better than a rerolled one. If both rolls succeed you get 2 pieces of information, which is the equivalent of a critical success (even if the DM can choose to give you the same information twice, but most DM I've played with tend to give different information if they can).And more rolls mean more critical failures implies it's best to never roll a check ever.
It's very easy to increase int and wis on both the Eidolon and the Summoner. The Summoner can increase Dex, Con, Wis and Int, and the Eidolon Dex, Str, Wis and Int, both ending at 18 in their stats which should mean no crit failures outside natural 1s.
You are making some serious assumptions here.
The Summoner has some top level spells slots, plus cantrips. Yes you can sack it. But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.The eidolon start with 10 in INT/CHA/WIS thats a big penalty. I know the Summoner doesn't have to do that.
However the summoner and eidolon share hitpoints and saves in a lot of scenarios. They basically get disavantge on area of effect saves. Neglecting any of their defensive stats is very dangerous. I'd probably still take the Eidolons CON to 18 even though it doesn't affect their hitpoints.
The eidolon has no skill feats.
The summoner doesn't have any extra skills. But yes picking up a few from Ancestry options seems a good approach. I just don't see them being able to pick up a large range.
Considering the Summoner and an Eidolon as an aid another pair, without considering that the rest of the party can aid each other, is just not reasonable. It's a contrived situation.
But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.
I had assumed that, but discussion elsewhere indicates I may be crazy.
It appears to be the minority of playtesters that sees value in preserving their high charisma value.
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PF1 Summoner was basically 2 characters: The Summoner and the Eidolon. 2 characters are equivalent of a character 2 levels above. So, for the Summoner to be balanced, both the Eidolon and the Summoner should be level -2 creatures. I already made the calculations somewhere before, but it means ending at Trained Proficiency for Armors, Weapons, Saves, Expert Proficiency for skills and Master Proficiency for spellcasting. Basically, you're playing 2 big piles of boo. I'm not sure anyone would have fun playing that even if it plays "like in PF1".
Balance is the biggest issue Paizo faces.
Nope because they share actions and hit points, level -2 would be deeply unfair. This summoner and eidolon is, for many purposes, one character.
Flavour and Fun come first. Balance is most definitely third. We loved PF1 for the Flavour, we coped with the Balance issues.
A Balanced boring game is a game that is just not played. It has to inspire and excite us first.
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No one wants to play a boring game.
Much less when there are much better thing to donwith your time.
I'm beginning to believe you care only about the game, and not the roleplaying.
I'm playing roleplaying games because its a social activity with friends, which is also fun.
But the first part of that statement is whats important for having fun. The mechanics are essentially irrelevant without the social aspect.
But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.I had assumed that, but discussion elsewhere indicates I may be crazy.
It appears to be the minority of playtesters that sees value in preserving their high charisma value.
You can do that but why?
Sometime the Eidolon will not be in the right position or able to be effective. I want to have reasonable cantrips to fall back on.
It is likely that there is buffing and healing elsewhere because there is a bard or a cleric in the party, why wouldn't you want to use those top level spell slots for something offensive and spectacular. Your Eidolon can chill for a round while you cast Meteor Swarm. Or maybe something action efficient like Implosion, which combines well with your Eidolon.
CHA is a good stat. Bon Mot, Scare to Death, Battle Cry, Battle Prayer, Evangelise..... works with your tandem action. Remember you probably won't be using a weapon due to MAP.
I guess that is the thing. I see offensive cantrip as essential as I don't tactically like the summoner with a weapon.
To me the summoner is a great user of bard dedication. The extra action they get is great for casting a composition cantrip, and I don't think anything can compete with that. Casters can't take advantage of the boost, martials don't have the actions or feats to spare often. They can also switch off being a mediocre martial and mediocre spell caster as situation requires.
Also they are very powerful when an enemy is next to the eidolon so they can get a full power attack, cast a spell, and inspire courage.
I hope they get worse at taking bard dedication, but better without it.
Maybe. But I can see that this summoner will be like the old one in that you want to spend every resource that you can on the Eidolon. So it will be tough to find spare class feats.
MultiTalented ancestry I guess.
But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.I had assumed that, but discussion elsewhere indicates I may be crazy.
It appears to be the minority of playtesters that sees value in preserving their high charisma value.
You can do that but why?
Sometime the Eidolon will not be in the right position or able to be effective. I want to have reasonable cantrips to fall back on.
It is likely that there is buffing and healing elsewhere because there is a bard or a cleric in the party, why wouldn't you want to use those top level spell slots for something offensive and spectacular. Your Eidolon can chill for a round while you cast Meteor Swarm. Or maybe something action efficient like Implosion, which combines well with your Eidolon.
CHA is a good stat. Bon Mot, Scare to Death, Battle Cry, Battle Prayer, Evangelise..... works with your tandem action. Remember you probably won't be using a weapon due to MAP.
I guess that is the thing. I see offensive cantrip as essential as I don't tactically like the summoner with a weapon.
I agree with you fully on this point. There's no way any Summoner I build dumps charisma. Your offensive spell capacity is on point for 50% of the characters life, and its not like Charisma doesn't do an absolute ton the rest of the time.
That said, the way Attribute Boosts work being maxed in Charisma doesn't prevent you from having good Intelligence and Wisdom for most of the game. There are plenty of resources for raising these.
Iirc Distracting Summon is the only thing that assists that, and even then it requires your Eidolon to already be engaged with an enemy from the prior turn and your Summoner to be close enough to drop the summon adjacent to the eidolon's target. Not sure I like having it restrained to a conditional feat.Isn't there a feat to help with that?Act Together currently makes the Summoner hesitant to casting Summon spells as it leaves the Eidolon without an action, something that Druids with Animal Companions do not currently suffer from.
Some people want to play eidolon focused and not mess with summons at all. That kind of boost to a single tactic really should be kept as a feat, if it is not made part of a class path.
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But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.I had assumed that, but discussion elsewhere indicates I may be crazy.
It appears to be the minority of playtesters that sees value in preserving their high charisma value.
You can do that but why?
Sometime the Eidolon will not be in the right position or able to be effective. I want to have reasonable cantrips to fall back on.
It is likely that there is buffing and healing elsewhere because there is a bard or a cleric in the party, why wouldn't you want to use those top level spell slots for something offensive and spectacular. Your Eidolon can chill for a round while you cast Meteor Swarm. Or maybe something action efficient like Implosion, which combines well with your Eidolon.
CHA is a good stat. Bon Mot, Scare to Death, Battle Cry, Battle Prayer, Evangelise..... works with your tandem action. Remember you probably won't be using a weapon due to MAP.
I guess that is the thing. I see offensive cantrip as essential as I don't tactically like the summoner with a weapon.
Due to how the eidolon recieves bonuses from the summoner and your reduced spell progression you are better off maxing your dexterity and taking a bow. You will do better than with a cantrip.
Its a "roleplaying game" if I wanted to larp or do fantasy improv I would do so. But I play "roleplaying games" because they are games.
I am shy when I have nothing to talk about and am naturally introverted. Acting is hard for me so I focus on the parts that I can and find fun. Which is making interesting characters with interesting abilties.
Glad that you are able to enjoy the social aspect of the game with your friends. Let me enjoy the mechanical aspect of the game the best I can.
For me the social aspect is irrelevant without the mechanics. So dont come at me from your ivory tower.
Having significant aspects of the game tied to narrative and description does not remove the 'game' from things. There's a balance to be reached, and that balance is aided when you leave things for players to determine which don't need to be locked into mechanics.
Save mechanics for when they're important, and you'll have a sleeker, more narrative and 'fun' game because you aren't wasting time with unneeded minutia.
Oh wow you lost all but 4 spell slots or all your interesting martial abilities for the circumstantial ability to sometimes maybe spend 2 actions for a reroll that only gives an effective +1 over any other character. In like 3 skills.
Much wow such amazing.
*sarcams*
Have you read my post? You don't lose on anything but the ability to cast offensive spells. Buff and healing work fine and complement Eidolons abilities nicely.
And as I said, I'm speaking of increasing the skills outside the Summoner class. The Summoner has unique skill based abilities but you need to invest on them. A Rogue Dedication can give you undisclosed levels in half a dozen of skills. Nice for a character who's not supposed to be a skill monkey.The Summoner has some top level spells slots, plus cantrips. Yes you can sack it. But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.
It depends on the spell list. Giving up on the Divine offensive spells is... not a big loss.
Nope because they share actions and hit points, level -2 would be deeply unfair. This summoner and eidolon is, for many purposes, one character.
That was the whole point of my post: You can't get PF1 Summoner because it would be boring as hell. So Paizo has to make up a new Summoner and it's easier to say than do.
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I'd be more okay with sharing HP if we ALSO gained the Eidolons con bonus in HP per level. This would provide us a little bit more cushioning and make con actually useful to increase on the Eidolon.
COUNTERPROPOSAL -
The first time you manifest your Eidolon after your daily preparations, it you gain Temporary HP equal to its level times con modifier.
That way you're not just straight up getting two stats to your effective HP?
I don't feel this is in any way necessary, but would something like that address your concerns?
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I'd be more okay with sharing HP if we ALSO gained the Eidolons con bonus in HP per level. This would provide us a little bit more cushioning and make con actually useful to increase on the Eidolon.
I agree, mostly because currently you can dump CON on your Eidolon, which is quite weird for a martial character.
6/8+Con+Eidolon Con would be nice.Also, 10+Con is for martials, and the Summoner is no martial.
I'd be more okay with sharing HP if we ALSO gained the Eidolons con bonus in HP per level. This would provide us a little bit more cushioning and make con actually useful to increase on the Eidolon.COUNTERPROPOSAL -
The first time you manifest your Eidolon after your daily preparations, it you gain Temporary HP equal to its level times con modifier.
That way you're not just straight up getting two stats to your effective HP?
I don't feel this is in any way necessary, but would something like that address your concerns?
That's actually terrible unless summoning your eidolon became a free action.
That's actually terrible unless summoning your eidolon became a free action.
I'd be more okay with sharing HP if we ALSO gained the Eidolons con bonus in HP per level. This would provide us a little bit more cushioning and make con actually useful to increase on the Eidolon.COUNTERPROPOSAL -
The first time you manifest your Eidolon after your daily preparations, it you gain Temporary HP equal to its level times con modifier.
That way you're not just straight up getting two stats to your effective HP?
I don't feel this is in any way necessary, but would something like that address your concerns?
?
The action required to summon your eidolon could be 3 hours, and it wouldn't matter because there's no duration.
You refresh it once in the morning, and you never have to do it again throughout the day.
That's actually terrible unless summoning your eidolon became a free action.
I'd be more okay with sharing HP if we ALSO gained the Eidolons con bonus in HP per level. This would provide us a little bit more cushioning and make con actually useful to increase on the Eidolon.COUNTERPROPOSAL -
The first time you manifest your Eidolon after your daily preparations, it you gain Temporary HP equal to its level times con modifier.
That way you're not just straight up getting two stats to your effective HP?
I don't feel this is in any way necessary, but would something like that address your concerns?
?
The action required to summon your eidolon could be 3 hours, and it wouldn't matter because there's no duration.
You refresh it once in the morning, and you never have to do it again throughout the day.
Totally my bad I missed that part
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One could explore a shorter cooldown. Something like level x CON with a cooldown of an hour means it'll be available most fights. Though that might be too much.
With the current Eidolon stats, it'd be 6 extra HP at 2nd level, which is probably fine, and 80-100 extra HP at 20th level, which is a LOT. It also puts a lot of pressure into investing into Constitution.
There's probably a happy middle ground. CON for every two levels (almost like a cantrip)?
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One could explore a shorter cooldown. Something like level x CON with a cooldown of an hour means it'll be available most fights. Though that might be too much.
With the current Eidolon stats, it'd be 6 extra HP at 2nd level, which is probably fine, and 80-100 extra HP at 20th level, which is a LOT. It also puts a lot of pressure into investing into Constitution.
There's probably a happy middle ground. CON for every two levels (almost like a cantrip)?
We need to stop requiring more actions from the action strapped class.
Just give them d12hp at a minimum. That amounts to a wizard with an animal companion.
The topic was mostly dropped now but wanted to put in my two cents. If your eidolon dies, the summoner should die too. It's already one of the best scouts of all time, with the summoner staying 100ft away, stealthed if need be, and can summon it back for a couple actions. There needs to be some sense of danger. As is, the eidolon could speed through almost a whole dungeon under the right circumstances, even if there are enemies, if the summoner casts the focus spell that lets them move as far away as they need to. A minute is a long time if all the eidolon is doing is moving
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If your eidolon dies, the summoner should die too.
It feels somewhat disingenous, when people saying that the Summoner doesn't have anything going for it are attacking the items other players identify that it has going for it.
The fact that the Eidolon is is a semi-disposable, low risk scout that is still intelligent is awesome. Its a unique benefit that is directly tied to the nature of the character and the class.
It should be embraced, not attacked. Its something a Summoner could do that no one else can.
It is HIGHLY abusable. Just have it run through a dungeon, trigger all the traps, have a dedicated healer, then once everything is tripped, just unsummon the Eidolon, rest, come back to the dungeon after resting and NO MORE TRAPS! Why even bring a rogue?If your eidolon dies, the summoner should die too.It feels somewhat disingenous, when people saying that the Summoner doesn't have anything going for it are attacking the items other players identify that it has going for it.
The fact that the Eidolon is is a semi-disposable, low risk scout that is still intelligent is awesome. Its a unique benefit that is directly tied to the nature of the character and the class.
It should be embraced, not attacked. Its something a Summoner could do that no one else can.
What is the relationship between traps and Rogues?
Rogues are amazing at a range of skills, and can outspecialize anyone.
Anyone can be a trapfinder - Summoner's having a unique take on it is fine.
This whole trapspringer angle is weird to me. Probably best to just stop bringing it up, honestly. I haven't had a classic trap filled dungeon in nearly a decade, and the traps I did include were auto resetting or environmental hazards for surprise combats.
The Eidolon scouting is... an option, not really great or bad, certainly not as good as a witch's familiar.
I just don't see it as a big feature one way or another.
Where is the +1 from?
Reroll on a D20 is worth +3.325.
Calculation is here https://imgur.com/Fojig3C
Thanks. It must be a bit less as the second roll is at -1, but yes, it's close to a +1.
Which is awesome, first because PF2 maths are really tight and because I'm comparing the Summoner to the best character in the domain. So, he's better than the best which... makes it the best!Summoners are really good at skills and compete with Rogues and Investigators if you invest in them (if you don't invest in skills, rerolling Trained skills is not very interesting).
Often it's not even a +1 as Perception check can be individual affecting ones, like finding a hidden creature or Disbelieving Illusions, so it can't be looked at like a Recall check where you're competing for the same info.
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i hardly believe the only 2 listed benefits ive seen of a summoner are even intended, but if they are indeed unintended, im highly upset at even the notion that it could be used as weight against improving the class on a mechanical level.
The Summoner has some top level spells slots, plus cantrips. Yes you can sack it. But I suspect that they will want to preverse their spell DCs as much as possible. Giving up on all offensive spell use is a big thing.It depends on the spell list. Giving up on the Divine offensive spells is... not a big loss.
Have you read the divine spell list? There is a lot of offensive magic in there. Maybe half are necromantic but they will still be open to most clerics. Calm Emotions, Spirit Blast, Eclipse Burst ....
You only have to be a healbot if you want to be (mostly unnecessary BTW as out of combat healing is so cheap its almost free).Yes the divine cantrips are not so great, but its simple to use ancestry feats to pick up a better cantrip from elsewhere.
Nope because they share actions and hit points, level -2 would be deeply unfair. This summoner and eidolon is, for many purposes, one character.That was the whole point of my post: You can't get PF1 Summoner because it would be boring as hell. So Paizo has to make up a new Summoner and it's easier to say than do.
A PF1 summoner had at its heart a number of really serious problems. It had to go. What we have here is a reasonable attempt to get something with the same flavour without the over the top problems.
Paizo don't have it totally right yet, hence the playtest.
It is HIGHLY abusable. Just have it run through a dungeon, trigger all the traps, have a dedicated healer, then once everything is tripped, just unsummon the Eidolon, rest, come back to the dungeon after resting and NO MORE TRAPS! Why even bring a rogue?In my experience, players walk into traps on purpose anyway, so it's no different from using an Eidolon.
Unless you have old school players you can't put a fatal level trap into a dungeon these days, so they'll just steamroller them and heal up afterwards using the amazing out-of-combat healing in PF2. Maybe they'll have to rest up afterwards but players also hate timed adventures, so what does it matter if rhey take an extra day?
I tend to put traps and monsters together, which makes traps not useless without making them OP (the monsters can shoot while the PCs climb out of the pit), but then I have to deal with how the monsters don't set them off themselves. Just like landmines, traps are nobody's friend.
This is precisely what summoned creatures are for. I do feel let down that the eidolon is not quite so expendable as before.
BTW have you read Reckless Abandon Perfect for characters who like to play like that.You can put fatal traps in dungeons. But its probably a good idea to have them sign posted. Especially for new players.
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A PF1 summoner had at its heart a number of really serious problems. It had to go. What we have here is a reasonable attempt to get something with the same flavour without the over the top problems.The base system of MAP and 3 action fixes that. They threw the baby out with the bath water when they removed the customization.
Not all of the issues had to do with Pounce and Natural attacks.
The fact that customization was open led to large numbers of players making Eidolons not because they were cool, flavorful, or appropriate to campaigns but because they had the freedom to choose all of the best options regardless of if the result was a nonsensical ball of tentacles.
This was distastful for many players and GMs.
Removing these builds was also a goal of the Unchained Summoner, which restricted Eidolons to things that were actually reasonable in most settings.
The topic was mostly dropped now but wanted to put in my two cents. If your eidolon dies, the summoner should die too. It's already one of the best scouts of all time, with the summoner staying 100ft away, stealthed if need be, and can summon it back for a couple actions. There needs to be some sense of danger. As is, the eidolon could speed through almost a whole dungeon under the right circumstances, even if there are enemies, if the summoner casts the focus spell that lets them move as far away as they need to. A minute is a long time if all the eidolon is doing is moving
I realy don't understand your point. You share HitPoints with your Eidolon. Its not that expendable. If it drops to zero hitpoints so do you and it unmanifests.
There is a small disconnect there but in what way is it a disposable scout?
The topic was mostly dropped now but wanted to put in my two cents. If your eidolon dies, the summoner should die too. It's already one of the best scouts of all time, with the summoner staying 100ft away, stealthed if need be, and can summon it back for a couple actions. There needs to be some sense of danger. As is, the eidolon could speed through almost a whole dungeon under the right circumstances, even if there are enemies, if the summoner casts the focus spell that lets them move as far away as they need to. A minute is a long time if all the eidolon is doing is movingI realy don't understand your point. You share HitPoints with your Eidolon. Its not that expendable. If it drops to zero hitpoints so do you and it unmanifests.
There is a small disconnect there but in what way is it a disposable scout?
The Summoner is standing as much as 100 feet or multiple rooms back, and if the Eidolon is downed by a trap the Summoner is safely with the party for healing.
One Medicine check removes Wounded, and the Eidolon is back 3 actions later.
Most notably, the Eidolon is also "immune" to things like Death effects, that would kill anyone else reduced to zero HP by them.
That may be a rare occurrence, but I had it happen to a player in a published AP.
"Don't worry, you've got a hero point. You just need to not critically fail one of three saves in a row with a reroll."
I felt terrible afterwards.
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A nonsensical ball of tentacles should be a valid Eidolon.
That’s called an aberration. It’s tied to the Occult spell list.
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A nonsensical ball of tentacles should be a valid Eidolon.That’s called an aberration. It’s tied to the Occult spell list.
I think it could also be an Angel, based on some of the more out there depictions.
I'd even say there's good precedent in media for something like that being a Plant. There's a pokemon like that, right?
The key is, it isn't just a random ball of tentacles because that was an optimal mechanic choice.
It has an origin somewhere in the setting that makes it fit and make sense.
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A nonsensical ball of tentacles should be a valid Eidolon.
Yeah, I don't really get the KrispyXIV's argument: What does it matter if you start with the mechanics and let you inform the fluff or start with the fluff and use it to pick the mechanics. If one is distasteful, I'm not sure why it's not as equally distastful for the other side too.
The Summoner is standing as much as 100 feet or multiple rooms back, and if the Eidolon is downed by a trap the Summoner is safely with the party for healing.
That's less that a full movement away for some monsters. 100' is great for a labyrinth but for a fairly straightforward layout, it isn't vary far. You're also separating yourself from your pal and the farther away you are the more likely you'll find yourself in 2 encounters if the location doesn't have 100% static unmoving encounters.
That's less that a full movement away for some monsters. 100' is great for a labyrinth but for a fairly straightforward layout, it isn't vary far. You're also separating yourself from your pal and the farther away you are the more likely you'll find yourself in 2 encounters if the location doesn't have 100% static unmoving encounters.
The fact that its not always amazing in every situation doesn't mean its not great when it matters.
Its also not typical of published adventures - they have great opportunities for this sort of stuff. Generally, its not hard to remain in range but a room or two back or at the very least out of line of site and safe from any fallout of what comes of your eidolon setting off a trap.
Yeah, I don't really get the KrispyXIV's argument: What does it matter if you start with the mechanics and let you inform the fluff or start with the fluff and use it to pick the mechanics. If one is distasteful, I'm not sure why it's not as equally distastful for the other side too.
The key is that you can do a ball of tentacles, even if base forms and types are defined for you. They aren't a restriction on creativity - there's no need for 'complete' freedom. Pick the best fit for your situation.
The fact that its not always amazing in every situation doesn't mean its not great when it matters.
I think the minuses tend to balance out the benefits which seems to be at odds with other posts that make it seems like it IS something that should happen as a default. If ALL the posts have been about it being situationally good, I don't disagree but I think it's also situationally bad too.
Its also not typical of published adventures - they have great opportunities for this sort of stuff. Generally, its not hard to remain in range but a room or two back or at the very least out of line of site and safe from any fallout of what comes of your eidolon setting off a trap.
I don't know how that matters: should the game be based off of current adventures, future adventures or ones made by the DM: IMO, it should be balanced with all those in mind. If it only works in a narrow set of situations, that's bad IMO. You shouldn't have to contrive situations so that the summoner doesn't get attacked while the 'pet' is 100' away 4 rooms away because 'that's how all the adventure do it'.
The key is that you can do a ball of tentacles, even if base forms and types are defined for you. They aren't a restriction on creativity - there's no need for 'complete' freedom. Pick the best fit for your situation.
But you're making it sound like it's BAD if my situation mean pick something for it's mechanics first; "The fact that customization was open led to large numbers of players making Eidolons not because they were cool, flavorful, or appropriate to campaigns but because they had the freedom to choose all of the best options regardless of if the result was a nonsensical ball of tentacles.
This was distastful for many players and GMs." IMO, that is a failure of creativity NOT a result of picking mechanics first. How is not making an attempt to make "cool, flavorful, or appropriate" fluff a failure of the mechanics or choice. It's purely on the people that didn't bother to put in the work.
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You shouldn't have to contrive situations so that the summoner doesn't get attacked while the 'pet' is 100' away 4 rooms away because 'that's how all the adventure do it'.
I'm not contriving anything. I'm basing my position on having played in or run various APs, and my observations from the setups therein.
In published material, situations where you can employ these tactics are all over the place.
I didn't just arrive at this position randomly - its based on actual experiences.