I'm considering a Warpriest for an upcoming campaign and looked through the APG for things to help him do his thing, i.e. kill stuff. Party composition also seems to lack a dedicated "tank", so that's also something I'd try to cover. Mostly in the "can take a beating" sense. Not as in "stops enemies in their tracks".
Here's what I got so far:
Warpriest of Ragathiel
Human, Aasimar, Background undecided
Str 16, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 12
Yes, even as Warpriest I value Wisdom much higher than Charisma. Increases go to Str, Con, Wis and Cha.
Ancestry Feats: 1- Natural Ambition - Destruction Domain, 5- Clever Improvisor, 9- Celestial Wings, 13- Celestial Strikes, 17- Eternal Wings
Class feats:
2- Emblazon Symbol
4- Sentinel Dedication. Also Steel Skin as skill feat.
6- Bastion Dedication. Also Armor Specialist as skill feat to fulfill the 3-feat requirement for the second Dedication.
8- Emblazon Energy
10- Mighty Bulwark
12- Align Armament
14- Extend Align Armament
16- Quick Shield Block
18- Replenishment of War
20- Maker of Miracles
The idea is to mix up Spells and Strikes liberally. Reactive Shield from the Bastion Dedication allows me to Raise my shield when it really counts. And makes my shield work even when I can't spare an action to Raise it during my turn. Quick Shield Block comes late, but I'm more concerned about having a decent AC than absorbing some damage.
Attack Bonus will be low as usual for Clerics but I hope to cover that with Buffs and Flanking. AC will be 1 behind a Martial in Medium Armor, but I do have the shield to make up for it. Getting +4 to all Reflex saves from Mighty Bulwark also seems VERY good. Might also get Reflex to master at the highest levels via Canny Acumen.
Damage goes up to 4d8+7 +1d6+1 good +1d6 sonic. That's about as much as a fighter on an average roll (speaking purely damage, without taking his much higher hit and crit chance into account).
So ignoring the lower attack bonus, I feel like this could work out quite well. Espcially since he also got 10th level spells.
Any glaring weakness or room for improvement I've missed?
Warpriest of RagathielAttack Bonus will be low as usual for Clerics but I hope to cover that with Buffs and Flanking.
Have you considered using True strike with Channel Smite (as a lvl 8 feat)? It could give you quite some burst damage when needed. Ragathiel is one of those deities with True strike. It's a nice addition to your arsenal.
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True Strike/Channel Smite is only good for CHA Warpriests, since it enables one to compensate for lower WIS and casting proficiency.
WIS Warpriests should take Harming Hands and Cast Down and just bad touch instead. It's reliable and inflicting prone is excellent.
Have you considered using True strike with Channel Smite (as a lvl 8 feat)? It could give you quite some burst damage when needed. Ragathiel is one of those deities with True strike. It's a nice addition to your arsenal.
True Strike is absolutely something I'm going to use. But I don't like Channel Smitr. It's a bit too much hit-or-miss, literally. I get the same effect for the same number of actions if I just do Strike + Harm, and that doesn't fail completely if a single roll goes awry.
But your suggestion did make me double check and realize that Ragathial actually allows Healing or Harming font. That's very good to know. So thanks!
WIS Warpriests should take Harming Hands and Cast Down and just bad touch instead. It's reliable and inflicting prone is excellent.
I don't know about "should". It's a good way to play a Warpriest, but hardly the only one.
I might still try to fit Cast Down in there somehow and see how it goes. Not sure I'll easily find a spot for it, though, especially not early on.
I am not sure the Align Armament is worth it, especially at such a high level?
The reason for suggestion True Strike was because the character sounds more like a "I hit you with a sword" type than an "I'll tap you gently on the arm to hurt you" type.
The advantage of Channel smite with True Strike is a much smaller change to miss and a bigger chance to crit, doubling the damage. While separately, you can still get a crit on the hit and a crit fail on the save, true strike gives you the option to roll two dice for the one effect.
Yes, Ragathiel has both fonts, but you can smite with both font spells and normal spells. The prereq to have a font only means that clerics can use channel smite, no other classes, as it's tied to having a font.
I am not sure the Align Armament is worth it, especially at such a high level?
Just like Emblazon Armament/Energy, it mostly serves to close the damage gap to the martials.
I wouldn't use Align Armament often without the Extend feat, which is why I take them both in direct succession, around the time when the Martials get Greate Weapon Specialization. Basically, they get +3 damage, I get +1d6. Paying with two feats while they get it for free hurts a bit but hey, I'm still a 10th level caster.
It's still 1d6 extra damage for one minute, so it can even be used as a pre-buff if you know a fight is coming. And since my Weapon is "only" d8, Align Armaments is nearly as good as an upgrade to a Striking rune and nobody would say no to that.
The reason for suggestion True Strike was because the character sounds more like a "I hit you with a sword" type than an "I'll tap you gently on the arm to hurt you" type.
The advantage of Channel smite with True Strike is a much smaller change to miss and a bigger chance to crit, doubling the damage. While separately, you can still get a crit on the hit and a crit fail on the save, true strike gives you the option to roll two dice for the one effect.
True Strike would make Channel Smite somewhat reliable a few times per day, that is true. Still not convinced it's worth a feat and I'm honestly not sure where to even put it in the build. Probably at level 10, taking Mighty Bulwark (if at all) at 16 instead of Quick Shield Block.
Food for thought either way. Thanks!
Yes, Ragathiel has both fonts, but you can smite with both font spells and normal spells. The prereq to have a font only means that clerics can use channel smite, no other classes, as it's tied to having a font.
Oh, I know that. But it looks like we'll have at least two other characters with healing abilities in the party so I can probably get away with using my Font slots for Harm.
Well Emblazon Energy is always on, and sound (with Destruction domain) is almost always efficient.
For a tank, Replenishment of War earlier could be useful.
I'm also fond of fast channel, as an aoe heal for 2 actions, it's a good panic button.
I started a thread about that a couple weeks again, and it seems to me this kind of build would be better served with a cloistered cleric chassis, since you plan to strike + harm.
If you go human, you can take twice Armor proficiency at levels 1 and 3, then Sentinel dedication at level 4 like you did, and you'll have the exact same armor.
So it's basically a choice of getting expert weapon at 11 instead of 7, versus getting legendary spellcasting.
Also, I'd take Harming Hands (more dps) or Versatile Font (more flexibility) over Emblazon armament any day ^^
I started a thread about that a couple weeks again, and it seems to me this kind of build would be better served with a cloistered cleric chassis, since you plan to strike + harm.
If you go human, you can take twice Armor proficiency at levels 1 and 3, then Sentinel dedication at level 4 like you did, and you'll have the exact same armor.
I considered going Cloistered but that would burn through my general feats rather quickly, especially since I also need Shield Block to qualify for Bastion. I could just stick with medium armor but that would lower my AC slightly and kill my Reflex save. Also slightly less value from Armor Specialisation.
This Cleric is not really meant to do mostly Strike + Harm. More like Strike + Spell. That's why I didn't consider Harming Hands or any of the Harm Metamgics.
So it's basically a choice of getting expert weapon at 11 instead of 7, versus getting legendary spellcasting.
Also, I'd take Harming Hands (more dps) or Versatile Font (more flexibility) over Emblazon armament any day ^^
Warpriest also comes with better Fort Saves - in addtion to saving me 3 general feats. And Emblazon Armament gets me to the same +4 damage bonus a martial character has and unlocks Emblazon Energy which is basically my subsitute for the martials' weapon specialization.
My main problem with playing martial casters is usually that their weapon damage isn't much better than a Cantrip. The Warpriest rectifies this somewhat with Emblazon and Align Armament - IF you're willing to pay the price.
Still, I'll consider your suggestions. Thanks :)
As a warpriest you only get medium armor. Bump your dex by 1.
You max at master spell proficiency. And your font is reliant on charisma. Put charisma to 14 or 16 and lower wisdom to bump up either charisma or con.
Spell selection. Very simple. Avoid all save and spell attack roll spells and instead focus on buffing, healing and utility.
The ability to run a 2 hand weapon and use the shield cantrip is nice.
Without free archetype even a single dedication can be a steep price. And taking 2 dedications just spreads you thin. At best heavy armor will result in you having a +1 ac from what you'd normally have and a shield is an effective option if you don't plan on big channel smite hits.
If you want strike+spell you want cloistered cleric.
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As a warpriest you only get medium armor. Bump your dex by 1.
That bump is completely wasted once I hit level 5 (when I get the Strength to wear full plate without penalty). I'm resonably sure I'll survive the first 4 levels with one-below-optimal AC. Might have to raise my shield a bit more than on later levels, though.
You max at master spell proficiency. And your font is reliant on charisma. Put charisma to 14 or 16 and lower wisdom to bump up either charisma or con.
Except I want my regular spells to have at least a half-decent chance to do something. Capping at Master isn't ideal and +2 is a lot in PF2, but it's not the end of the world if you can live with failure. Lowering Wis below 18 would however make spells too weak to be even worth bothering.
Spell selection. Very simple. Avoid all save and spell attack roll spells and instead focus on buffing, healing and utility.
I'll definitely throw some offensive spells in the mix. It's just more fun this way. And probably much more effective than hitting when I'm up against multiple foes.
The ability to run a 2 hand weapon and use the shield cantrip is nice.
True, but not what this build is supposed to do. The idea is to Raise the Shield with Reactive Shield as to not waste an action on it when it won't matter anyway.
Without free archetype even a single dedication can be a steep price. And taking 2 dedications just spreads you thin.
Seeing how I can "pay off" the first dedication with Skill feats (even though admittedly one of them doesn't do a whole lot for me), that's not really an issue.
At best heavy armor will result in you having a +1 ac from what you'd normally have
Also Bulwark, access to Mighty Bulwark which is a literal +4 to ALL Reflex saves without the need for a single Dex Boost. Also gets me some Slashing Resistance from Armor Specialization.
And if the -2 from only Master Casting Proficiency is such a big deal, a +1 AC bonus seems rather good, no?
and a shield is an effective option if you don't plan on big channel smite hits.
And the shield becomes even more effective if I take the Bastion archetype. Seriously, I consider Reactive Shield to be one of the best defensive feats in the game. Access to Quick Shield Block doesn't hurt either.
If you want strike+spell you want cloistered cleric.
Delays my weapon proficiency by a bit, doesn't (easily) get heavy armor, Shield Block or master Fortitude, making the "Strike" part of this strategy quite a bit harder to pull off.
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What you say has its merits, mind you. It's just completely different from what I'm trying to do.
I think what you are trying to do makes it a poor warpriest but to each their own! You don't have to make optimal characters to have fun.
That's why I've played an alchemist lol.
I think what you are trying to do makes it a poor warpriest but to each their own! You don't have to make optimal characters to have fun.
That's why I've played an alchemist lol.
I've seen full casters work with 16 in their casting attribute, so I figured Wis 18 and master proficiency can't be THAT much worse, right? :D I might end up disappointed, but at least I've tried. And hey, maybe I'll be positively surprised!
I'm fully aware that this is not the most optimal Warpriest. But it is one of the most martial one, having as much AC as possible while also dealing good damage with his weapon. Unless my math is off, I'm literally hitting as hard as a longsword fighter at level 20 - again, ignoring chance to hit/crit and any special attacks. That has to count for something.
Might still switch some feats around to make room for stuff like Cast Down as the others suggested. Your suggestions aren't bad by any means, but would come VERY close to a complete re-work, which I want to avoid. :)
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I made a Executioner warpriest that was fun.
Great axe. Harm font. Shield cantrip and guidance.
Stats largely as I stated.
16str, 16 Cha, 12 dex, rest into con. Wisdom was at 12. I didn't want to start going first as it is as id rather come in behind the martials.
Level 1-3 my harm wasn't great because so many would save. But I'd still do 2d12+3 per swing and at level 1 my chance to hit is only 1 behind the other martials (magic weapon).
Level 4 I get channel smite. My swing's now look like 2d12+3+2d10. 7-45 in a single hit.
Take versatile font or healing don't depending on campaign.
I liked it. But your basically doing a variation of power attack.
Unless you plan on doing much with Cha, other than Font Slots, I’d bump Con up to 14. My Ranger started with a 14 Con; and even with a higher Class HP and a high AC, w/no shield; you can still go down really quick. A Shield might skew things into your favor though.
Replenishment of War I would grab asap at level 10, and bump the line of feats down one. Would probably recommend grabbing Toughness.
Staves can help; not just in combat, but outside of combat as well, as basically free scrolls so you can keep your Spell Slots mostly consistent.
Bless is also a good spell to use that can also help other frontline members.
Unless you plan on doing much with Cha, other than Font Slots, I’d bump Con up to 14. My Ranger started with a 14 Con; and even with a higher Class HP and a high AC, w/no shield; you can still go down really quick. A Shield might skew things into your favor though.
I got both to 12 with the four free boosts during character creation. There's no way for me to get the charisma boost into con. Well, not unless I take voluntary flaws and drop Int to 8 as well, which I really don't wanna do.
Replenishment of War I would grab asap at level 10, and bump the line of feats down one. Would probably recommend grabbing Toughness.
Yeah, delaying Replenishment so much is one of the things I dislike about the build. Guess I'll put it at 10 and push Mighty Bulwark down to 12 or even 14. The Align feats will either have to wait or be cut.
Toughness is absolutlely one of the first general feats I'll pick up, probably the very first.
Staves can help; not just in combat, but outside of combat as well, as basically free scrolls so you can keep your Spell Slots mostly consistent.
Handling Staves in Combat is probably a bit awkward if I already wield a sword and a shield. They are still useful, of course, but it'll largely depend on what we can get our hands on. Also looks like we'll have 2 full-time caster in the party. They should probably have priority when it comes to staves.
Bless is also a good spell to use that can also help other frontline members.
We may or may not have a Bard in the group. I'll have to wait and see how that's turning out before considering Bless.
Thanks for the input!
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i would for sure cut down the Align feats in favor to bump way down more "pressing" feats:
While 1d6 damage is not neglible, when you plan on usually attacking only once a round, i think having 4 levels earlier access to Replenishment and Quick shield block will mean so much less damage.
Takeing less damage directly means you can spend more time smacking things and less tme healing yourself back up, which means more damage overall. I feel it will overall boost your damage way more than an 1d6 on your attack would.
That's true, especially if I really happen to be the only frontliner who can actually take a beating.
Something like this should work:
10- Replenishment of War
12- Quick Shield Block
14- Mighty Bulwark
16-
18-
20- Maker of Miracles
I could get the Align feats at 16 and 18. Or switch them out for something else. It seems likely that the rest of the party won't play buffing classes, so even Eternal Blessing could be pretty good. Doesn't stack with Herosim of course but it's unlikely I'll have heroism up and running all the time. Blessing also helps the other melee guys.
Or I could go for a late Channel Smite and/or Cast Down or something. Should take a long time to even get there. We'll see.
Thanks!
This thread is from 2025, a lot has changed since then, the warpriest himself gained access to heavy armor, it gained proficiency in the favored weapon even if it is an advanced weapon, archetypes like the Avenger, Vindicator and Battle Harbinger were added and so on.
It is better to detail what you want than to try to take advantage of something from this thread.
For example, why would you want to tank a warpriest and not a champion if you don't also intend to be a healer? Why do you want to tank with this class? How do you intend to keep your enemies' aggro on you so that they don't attack your allies (usually this means, what do you do to make yourself seem more threatening or to hinder enemies to the point of becoming a primary target)? Why can't your tank be a champion or a monk, which are more defense-focused classes?
Got it. Thanks for explaining, so let's get to the problems.
In a TTRPG, unlike an electronic RPG or an MMORPG, your opponents are managed by a rational human being (the GM) who will interpret them with a more logical intention. Usually making intelligent creatures, when they want to win a fight, focus on what seems to be the most threatening point of the party or the easiest to take down, which are usually those that appear to be less armored, more frail, that cause a high value of damage and that are not preventing you from acting or being efficient in any way.
This means that, with the exception of GMs who play randomly and sometimes when interpreting irrational creatures, your GM will make your opponent focus primarily on the most "glass cannon" characters until your GM realizes that you have a healer, where normally the creatures controlled by your GM will turn against this healer since the healer is preventing these creatures from winning this fight.
This usually allows for a safe build of a warpriest with a tanking role, since the warpriest's healing becomes a hindrance to enemies and therefore often ends up becoming the priority target (thus calling it "aggro"). But since you said that there is already another healer in the party, you will hardly be able to get this aggro alone, especially if this healer seems to be defensively weaker than you. So your tanking role here is already partially compromised, since it will also depend on whether your healer ally will also build a character that is as defensively strong as you.
From what I understand, you also don't intend to act as a healer, preferring to focus more on DPR, which means that you will become even less interesting as a primary target. So if your goal was to deal damage without drawing too much attention to yourself due to your high defense, this would make sense. But since it isn't, then you need something else.
The other interesting point is that now after the cleric remaster, the sentinel archetype no longer makes sense for the warpriest since you get proficiency in heavy armor through the feat Warpriest’s Armor which also treats the armor as lighter in terms of bulk. It’s not worth locking into an archetype just for that.
An interesting alternative that the warpriest has always had, even because the warpriest is the class least affected by the archetype’s anathema since the divinity anathema will exist anyway, is to invest in the champion archetype instead of sentinel or bastion. This way you will get the same access to heavy armor (the Champion Dedication gives you this in the same way as the sentinel one), but mainly, especially now that you are level 8, the Champion's Reaction feat that will allow you to use your reaction to protect nearby allies (15 feet, can be doubled later via feats) reducing any damage they take by 2+your level while applying some punishment to the enemy depending on your chosen Cause.
This reaction "pulls aggro" because, in addition to similarly to healing, it prevents enemies from killing other party members, it also punishes them for trying to do so, forcing them to consider you a greater threat to their victory and effectively helping you in the tank role, even if an ally also draws attention by healing. This also helps solve a problem with the offensive warpriest build, which is the lack of a reliable reaction.
So my recommendation would be this: do your build as you planned, but take the champion archetype instead of the sentinel or bastion archetype and take the archetype's Champion's Reaction feat, as this will ensure that your tank role will work with a much lower risk of being ignored and, if it is the reaction, you will be constantly punishing your enemies and protecting your allies from it while you continue to focus on attacking them normally.
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Any update on how this turned out Blave? Curious because I am building a Warpriest currently at level 8 and I will be the only tank. The party has a healer already.
Didn't expect to see a 4+ years old thread if mine reappear, so sorry for the late response.
As Yuri has mentioned correctly, A LOT has changed since I was last discussing this. I ultimately ended up playing another character altogether but if I were to rebuild a warpriest now it would look very different from what the original idea here.
I'd absolutely go Bastion if possible. The ability to raise a shield as a reaction takes a lot of strain from your action economy.
Another somewhat unusual thing I'd seriously consider is going Magus archetype. Grabbing Shielding Strike is another amazing action economy enhancer and Spellstrike is a much more versatile option than Channel Smite.
Getting both Magus and Bastion in a timely manner requires free archetype and a permissive GM, of course. I usually have both in my group, fortunately.
But for regular play, I agree with Yuri that champion is great. Heavy armor and the reaction alone make this a very powerful archetype. The new remaster feat Defensive advance is an action economy enhancer similar to what Bastion or Magus can provide.
If you can muster the required charisma, I'd go champion over sentinel without hesitation. Mighty Bulwark is ultimately just a +1 to reflex saves most of the time, and not worth the feat investment. Reflex targeting stuff that doesn't deal damage is too rare as the sole reason for sentinel. And you likely have Raise Symbol, so it's not like your saves are terrible either way.
Can I get Raise Symbol and use it with my Shield without having to get Emblazoned Armament?
That's something you have to ask your GM. I don't think there's a RAW way to treat a shield as a religious symbol other than Emblazon Armament. There's a specific magic shield somewhere that counts as Symbol of Torag, but that's about it.
Can I get Raise Symbol and use it with my Shield without having to get Emblazoned Armament?That's something you have to ask your GM. I don't think there's a RAW way to treat a shield as a religious symbol other than Emblazon Armament. There's a specific magic shield somewhere that counts as Symbol of Torag, but that's about it.
Guardian Shield could also work. It's "engraved with the symbol of a good diety."
https://2e.aonprd.com/Equipment.aspx?ID=1572
Can I get Raise Symbol and use it with my Shield without having to get Emblazoned Armament?
I don't see a problem with it. I let the player put their symbol on their shield. Not sure why it would be a problem with any DM. Pretty easy to put a symbol on a shield and bless it without Emblazon.