Since I don't know much about monks, maybe you could tell me why that is.I personally think that monk flurry drastically increases in value if you take the monastic weaponry feat (which is admittedly not very good for a fighter on its own)
this could be an interesting sidenote
Monastic Weaponry enable Monks to use their flurry of blows with all Weapons which have the Monk tag (which includes a small number of advanced weapons) and use their unarmed prophiciency progression for them
when you learn the 10th level monk dedication flurry of blows you can use one action to attack two times
there are fighter feats for it but this enables to do it with a single weapon or weapon who need 2 hands
Under weapon critical specialization effects I don’t see a rating for polearms. What rating do you give it?
Thanks for catching the oversight. I rate it ORANGE. Moving the enemy is nice, but it's not great.
Monastic Weaponry enable Monks to use their flurry of blows with all Weapons which have the Monk tag (which includes a small number of advanced weapons) and use their unarmed prophiciency progression for themI just looked it up on AON, and I didn't see any Advanced monk weapons. The weapons are:
Simple – katar.
Martial – bo staff, fighting fan, kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, temple sword.Even if there were advanced monk weapons (perhaps added in later sourcebooks), Monastic Weaponry doesn't help much with those - it only gives you training with simple and martial monk weapons.
In addition, it does not specifically let you use unarmed proficiency with these weapons. It makes you trained with them, and when you reach expert and master proficiency in unarmed you also get to increase them to that rank – but it says no such thing about legendary proficiency.
It does let you use flurry of blows with these weapons though, and that can be pretty neat in itself.
Okay you're right, I've checked it
That makes that feat line of course almost useless to fighters
I thought that the scaling was just linked to unarmed prophiciency
First of all, I enjoy your guides very much. I finished the wizard guide and I am working through the fighter guide now.
My main point is a small one, but I believe is an important clarification.
In "5.1.2.2.2 5th level Elf Ancestry Feats" for Forest stealth you wrote "Forest Stealth (Expert in Stealth) - Can Hide in underbrush and foliage. Honestly, I didn’t know everyone couldn’t do that." Everybody can do that, but it's normally two actions to accomplish, 1 action - Take Cover, 2nd action - Hide. This feat reduces the task down to one action as noted in its entry on page 27 LOCG.
This feat is also listed in your wizard guide the same way. I think it would be rated higher for the wizard as it would be another use for their third action each turn. Hope this is useful.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hi, folks! Thanks for your continued input.
Right now I'm working on a guide to the 2e Rogue. It was nearly finished when the APG dropped and I was very nearly set back to Square One. When I'm finished with that, I will update the Wizard and Fighter guides for the APG and your recent comments. That could be a little while...
Looking forward to your taken on the APG Content. I am excited to see what you think about the Marshal. :)
I love the Marshal and the Mauler and several others. I've just finished my update of the Rogue and Wizard and now onto the Fighter!
In section 7.2.15, you say that GMs should make a house rule allowing Scrolmaster/Spellmaster/Swordmaster Dedications to be taken as follow-on feats to the Pathfinder Agent Dedication. I may be confused, but I think this is already handled by this bit in LOCG.
The following archetypes are uncommon, but are available to members of the Pathfinder Society (see page 65 for more information). Qualifying characters with the Pathfinder agent archetype (Lost Omens World Guide 23) can select one of these dedication feats even if they have not gained three feats from the Pathfinder agent archetype, and each of these archetypes’ feats fulfills the Pathfinder Agent Dedication’s special requirement despite not being from the Pathfinder agent archetype.
I think marshal works with two hand fighters. For the other styles, you are giving up stances that give +2AC to do a marshal stance
Only for people with greatswords and the like. If you're here for reach games, you really want Lunging Stance.
My Orc Neck Biting, shield wearing Marshal seems to be just fine.
Giving up a +2 bonus to AC or the ability to lunge is serious loss, but what the Marshal gives is a serious gain, so I think there is no clear right answer. It comes down to personal preference.
In section 7.2.15, you say that GMs should make a house rule allowing Scrolmaster/Spellmaster/Swordmaster Dedications to be taken as follow-on feats to the Pathfinder Agent Dedication. I may be confused, but I think this is already handled by this bit in LOCG.
The following archetypes are uncommon, but are available to members of the Pathfinder Society (see page 65 for more information). Qualifying characters with the Pathfinder agent archetype (Lost Omens World Guide 23) can select one of these dedication feats even if they have not gained three feats from the Pathfinder agent archetype, and each of these archetypes’ feats fulfills the Pathfinder Agent Dedication’s special requirement despite not being from the Pathfinder agent archetype.
Got it. Thanks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay! I have just uploaded a fairly massive post-APG update. Enjoy!
Minor quibble in the Weapons section ... you have the scorpion whip as a nonlethal weapon. Given where it is in your list, I think you mean just the standard whip there?
It does seem so, yes. Thanks.
Okay! I have just uploaded a fairly massive post-APG update. Enjoy!
Okay! I have just uploaded a fairly massive post-APG update. Enjoy!
Reading through this (after reading through your 2nd Edition Rogue guide) -- it's like a new guide.
Found a couple of proofreading problems:
In Archetypes, Archaeologist is missing its section heading (and the corresponding entry in the Table of Contents sidebar).
In Builds: Blessed One: "A warrior blessed by Sarenrae to bring hope to the downtrodden and swift steel to the wicked. The" -- missing a piece of something here. (Speaking of Blessed One, it seems that Pathfinder 2nd Edition now has all 3 choices of Paladin (or other Champion), Multiclass Paladin, and Prestige Paladin.)
Fighter Strategies: Combat Roles: Defense: Change "roll" to "role".
{. . .}
Thank you for all the work.
+1 on this. Great guide series! I see that Advanced Player's Guide really inflated everything more than 2-fold -- impressive to get all that in for 3 guides.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am playing a Leshy Fighter. For some reason I thought they only got three ancestry feats, at 1st, 5th, and 9th levels. Today I relized they also get ones at 13th and 17th levels. But they have no higher level ancestry feats.
Having a note that you must select a lower level feat would be nice.
Pointing out best picks after your initials would be better.
If there is something else you can swap for an ancestry feat, that woud also be good.
This would apply to all ancestries without full levels of feats.
/cevah
Edits needed in the guide:
12.4.2.1: Quick Squeeze
This is referring to wizards, not fighters.
14.2.1: Notes on Armor
The speed penalty is not reduced to -5, but by -5.
/cevah
I am playing a Leshy Fighter. For some reason I thought they only got three ancestry feats, at 1st, 5th, and 9th levels. Today I relized they also get ones at 13th and 17th levels. But they have no higher level ancestry feats.
Having a note that you must select a lower level feat would be nice.
Pointing out best picks after your initials would be better.
If there is something else you can swap for an ancestry feat, that woud also be good.
This would apply to all ancestries without full levels of feats.
/cevah
Yes it would be nice if there were more Leshy options. But you can take Adopted Ancestry if you run out of good options.
Reading through this (after reading through your 2nd Edition Rogue guide) -- it's like a new guide.
Yeah! There was a lot in the APG!
In Archetypes, Archaeologist is missing its section heading (and the corresponding entry in the Table of Contents sidebar).
Weird! Fixed.
In Builds: Blessed One: "A warrior blessed by Sarenrae to bring hope to the downtrodden and swift steel to the wicked. The" -- missing a piece of something here. (Speaking of Blessed One, it seems that Pathfinder 2nd Edition now has all 3 choices of Paladin (or other Champion), Multiclass Paladin, and Prestige Paladin.)
Fighter Strategies: Combat Roles: Defense: Change "roll" to "role".
Thanks!
Why is paragon's guard green and duelist dance blue? Just due to reactive shield existing?
Well first of all, because it's hard to be perfectly consistent across 260 pages of material. But second because I'd argue that raising a shield is a must-have for a shield user while parrying is merely a very good idea for a swashbuckler type.
For dhampir heritage the two spell casting feats seem like red tier. Maybe I misunderstand how innate spells work. Since you have no spellcasting DC progression they'll both just be at trained level, right? Even if you're taking charisma for skills or something it will likely be behind point or two there as well, leaving the save DCs at pretty terrible levels. Charm also has the incapacitation tag and is level 1, making it even worse since pretty much everything will get a success step boost against it.
You're not wrong. Still, they're cool for flavor.
I am playing a Leshy Fighter. For some reason I thought they only got three ancestry feats, at 1st, 5th, and 9th levels. Today I relized they also get ones at 13th and 17th levels. But they have no higher level ancestry feats.
Having a note that you must select a lower level feat would be nice.
But this is a guide, not a rules compendium. I presume you've read the rules and I'm merely here to point out my opinion on good or bad choices.
Pointing out best picks after your initials would be better.
That's the point of the color-coding system.
If there is something else you can swap for an ancestry feat, that woud also be good.
Adopted Ancestry will let you do it. But that, of course, is not an Ancestry feat. Only humans have an Ancestry feat that lets you choose a General feat.
Edits needed in the guide:
12.4.2.1: Quick Squeeze
This is referring to wizards, not fighters.
I read that about four times before I remembered that this was my fighter guide, not my wizard guide. Right you are!
Great job on all your guides, I love them all! I have a question regarding the suggested eldritch archer build, it levels up Intelligence as the mental stat and leaving Charisma at 10.
I know you use your attack stat for the roll but isn't the +CHA on damage for cantrips worth it?
Yes, you're right. Having done my wizard guide first I probably forgot that if you don't already have spellcasting, you use Charisma as your casting stat. I'll fix it.
5.1.5.2.2 Cultural Adaptability: Adopted Ancestry only gives access to common Ancestries, not all. So the reference to a leshy feat does not belong here.
/cevah
One more minor correction. 7.2.43 about Staff Acrobat. You mention having to give up reach if you want Whirlwind Stance, which is locked to the Bo Staff. While I agree with your rant, there is the irony that the Bo Staff actually has reach, while the Staff doesn't -- so Whirlwind Stance does let you have reach.
Re: the Human 13th level ancestry feat Unconventional Expertise. For a fighter using an advanced weapon, this is actually a pretty good feat. When you get Weapon Legend, also at 13th level, you can use this to have legendary proficiency in any weapon group and also have it with your unconventional advanced weapon. Pretty sweet.
Eh... I upgraded it to orange. Still not a great use of two feats, in my opinion.
5.1.5.2.2 Cultural Adaptability: Adopted Ancestry only gives access to common Ancestries, not all. So the reference to a leshy feat does not belong here.
Fixed. Thanks.
One more minor correction. 7.2.43 about Staff Acrobat. You mention having to give up reach if you want Whirlwind Stance, which is locked to the Bo Staff. While I agree with your rant, there is the irony that the Bo Staff actually has reach, while the Staff doesn't -- so Whirlwind Stance does let you have reach.
Slaps forehead. Oh, for the love of... They gave it Reach, too? It's the shorter staff!
Alright, thanks for the catch!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
DISARM is generally regarded as a less useful option because it requires you to critically succeed to achieve your aim, but I believe this misses the point. A regular success imposes a -2 on your enemy’s attacks for a round and makes your next attempt at disarm that much more likely to succeed.
Disarm - without additional feats to improve it - is absolutely awful. Spending feats to improve an awful feature is usually equally awful. Your reported success result for Disarm is wrong.
Success You weaken your target's grasp on the item. Until the start of that creature's turn, attempts to Disarm the target of that item gain a +2 circumstance bonus, and the target takes a –2 circumstance penalty to attacks with the item or other checks requiring a firm grasp on the item.
(emphasis mine)
So if you get a success on a disarm attempt then, unless he uses a reaction attack before his next turn, the bad guy has zero negative effects.
Also note that the Disarm action is an attack and sufferers the Multi-Attack Penalty. So you can add that +2 circumstance bonus to the -5 MAP giving you a -3 to your next attempt. Happy crit fishing.
Quite honestly the only class or archetype that should be messing around with disarm is the swashbuckler which offers a level 1 feat
It's harder for your foes to regain their grip when you knock their weapon partially out of their hands. When you succeed at an Athletics check to Disarm, the circumstance bonus and penalty from Disarm last until the end of your next turn, instead of until the beginning of the target's next turn. The target can use an Interact action to adjust their grip and remove this effect. If your swashbuckler's style is gymnast and you succeed at your Athletics check to Disarm a foe, you gain panache.
(emphasis mine)
Not quite the only class or archetype. Abilities like Disarming Block that apply a disarm during the target's turn have got some use, as well, since applying an extra -2 if they make further attacks that turn is a worthwhile benefit.
The Firebrand Braggart section (7.2.17) is all kinds of messed up.
The initial Firebrand Braggart Dedication not only gets you into the club but it is an action which you have described under Boaster's Challenge. It should be rated orange because while the action is quite horrible it is the feat tax to get to better stuff.
Boaster's Challenge (deception, diplomacy, intimidation check to get bonus damage) has its function described under Daring Act and I agree with your blue rating.
Daring Act (athletics or acrobatic check to stride without provoking) has its function described under Bravo's Determination. I agree with your green rating.
Bravo's Determination is a reaction to being dropped to 0 HP where you make a deception check to possibly be left with 1 HP instead. Success = orc ferocity and crit success doesn't wound you. If you were crit when dropped to 0 then your deception results get lowered by 1. I'd rate this green/blue.
The rest of the feats are correct.
Not quite the only class or archetype. Abilities like Disarming Block that apply a disarm during the target's turn have got some use, as well, since applying an extra -2 if they make further attacks that turn is a worthwhile benefit.
Good point. This is going to require you to 1) be attacked by a monster with a weapon 2) monster has to hit you 3) you have to have a reaction to spend on a shield block 4) you have to be willing to take shield damage 5) you must get a success on the disarm (athletics) roll 6) monster must attack again that round. It definitely can happen. I don't think it's going to happen enough to justify picking Disarming Block over another level 4 fighter feat like Knockdown which also uses an athletics roll but to much greater effect.
Eh, if you're the type of fighter that shield blocks things and playing in a game where you fight a significant number of weapon using enemies it's reasonably common to meet all if those conditions. (And, of course, if you rarely fight enemies with weapons,nothing can make disarm not be extremely situational for you).
Here's something that has been bugging me for the last few days. In Pathfinder 1st Edition, several weapons (especially Spears) had the Brace property, which let you set them against a charging opponent to do extra damage. It wasn't class-restricted or feat-gated, although Phalanx Soldier Fighter had a class feature that enhanced the action economy of doing this, and I may have missed something else along those lines. But 2nd Edition doesn't seem to have the Brace mechanic at all. I would have figured that if it was going to get class-locked like several other cool combat things, that the 2nd Edition Fighter would be the one class to still have this, but I can't find a trace of it.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
That's because there is no charge mechanic per se, just feats that are called XXX Charge, and those feats are indeed part of a Barbarian's, Fighter's or even Witch's class feats list. Or belong to archetypes (Scout's Charge).
But yeah, no overall charge mechanic to be found, so no class feats that interact with one.
Well, that explains that. Although Witch's Charge doesn't have anything to do with Charging.
So what's the closest thing to replicating the Pathfinder 1st Edition Charge mechanic in Pathfinder 2nd Edition (Fighter or otherwise)? Closest things I could find are Cavalier's Charge/Trampling Charge (and the guide says Cavalier is a fine archetype for Fighter to take), but those feats don't come very close.
Well, that explains that. Although Witch's Charge doesn't have anything to do with Charging.
So what's the closest thing to replicating the Pathfinder 1st Edition Charge mechanic in Pathfinder 2nd Edition (Fighter or otherwise)? Closest things I could find are Cavalier's Charge/Trampling Charge (and the guide says Cavalier is a fine archetype for Fighter to take), but those feats don't come very close.
Sudden Charge (Fighter/Barbarian 1) is the closest, yet how close is a matter of opinion. The three-actions system sort of shut down the need for PF1 charging and the crit/fail system has limited how many bonuses get doled out, yet if you want to move as much as possible and Strike, it's Sudden Charge (which pairs well with Raise Shield, Stride before or after, or a Press). It doesn't need to be linear, so in that way it's better, but it doesn't get the bonus to attack either.
Rhino Hide (+1d8 damage w/ Sudden Charge) seems a nifty bonus, at least for a Barbarian w/o heavy armor proficiency or a Fighter built to skirmish more than play tank (i.e. an Elf).