Can you full attack with both melee and ranged, and if so, what about unique ranged attacks of monsters?


Rules Questions


The first question is simple, but not the reason I’m making this. I just couldn’t find a ruling on this. But assuming the answer is yes, then I have the following questions:

So I was wondering if something like a Manticore could do a full attack with its melee natural weapons and its spikes attack. I believe the spikes are a natural weapon, since the Boreal Manticore, a Manticore with the Boreal Creature template, has the extra cold damage on its spikes attack, but the Boreal template only adds that to natural weapons.

But what about, say, Mogaru and his firebolts attack? Could he do this with a full attack alongside his melee attacks? The change here is that firebolts is a Su ability, whereas spikes is an Ex ability.

If a Manticore can full attack with spikes and melee, but Mogaru could not with firebolts and melee, would that change if it was an Ex ability?


Both of those attacks are Standard Actions, so they can't perform the attack action or full attack action with them.


If it's a natural attack (manticore spikes), they can be used during a full attack (though spikes would provoke AoOs from any creatures that threaten the manticore).

If it's an ability that says it's a standard action to use (mogaru firebolts) or an SU, or SLA, it is its own action.

Edit: Diego has the right answer.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You need to look at what kind of action is each attach. If the attack has a specific action requirement it can interfere with a full attack.

Manticore wrote:
Spikes (Ex) With a snap of its tail, a manticore can loose a volley of four spikes as a standard action (make an attack roll for each spike).

The spike attack is a standard action and can't be used together with a full attack, that is a full round action.

Mogaru wrote:
Firebolts (Su) As a standard action on any round immediately following the use of his breath weapon, Mogaru can fire bolts of red energy from the glowing spines along his back. These bolts are ranged touch attacks with a range of 1,200 feet. When Mogaru uses this ability, he must choose between firing one firebolt, three firebolts, or six firebolts. If he fires one, it deals 20d6 points of damage on a hit. If he fires three bolts, each deals 8d6 points of damage on a hit. If he fires six bolts, each deals 5d6 points of damage on a hit. Half of the damage caused by any one firebolt is fire damage, the other half is force damage. Firebolts deal full damage against objects, and ignore the first 10 points of hardness possessed by an object.

Again, a standard action.

To work the way you want the attack should be a free or swift action, or it should be something that can be done as part of an attack, without specifications about the action used.

To make an example with a player character, if you have Quick draw, a bow in hand and two attacks because your BAB is +6 or more, it is possible to take a full attack, fire an arrow, drop the bow, Quickdraw a sword and attack someone in melee.


Well, I have two different answers now. Great.


Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Well, I have two different answers now. Great.

No they had the right of it, I didn't see the standard action line in spikes.


willuwontu wrote:
Reksew_Trebla wrote:
Well, I have two different answers now. Great.
No they had the right of it, I didn't see the standard action line in spikes.

Oh. Okay then. Thank you all for the help.


I concur that the standard action language means "can't be combined with a full attack".

But a PC, holding a short sword and a repeating hand crossbow who is eligible to make 3 attacks in a full attack, can make any combination of 3 attacks with those two weapons in whatever order they choose.


Yeah, barring language to the effect that says a type of attack is a standard action, like the mantifcore spikes, you can combine ranged and melee attacks.


Usually, a creature will have all its attacks listed in its offense writeup. If it can perform ranged actions as part of its melee full attack, it will usually say so. Since the Manticore lists it as two different attacks, they can't be combined.

Usually, enemies can use one attack per offensive limb (wolves have multiple limbs, but only its head is capable of offense). That's either a natural attack, or a weapon attack, if they're wielding weapons. An Ettin has has a flail in each hand, and a backup javelin. He has the following attacks:

Melee 2 flails +12/+7 (2d6+6)
Ranged 2 javelins +5 (1d8+6)

Two arms, two attacks (and iteratives), just like a PC would if they had Two-Weapon Fighting (except the Ettin has a special ability, that's not relevant here). If the Ettin has a flail in one hand, and a javelin in the other, it could theoretically attack like this:
flail +12/+7 (melee), javelin +5(ranged). Hell, if it had Quick Draw, it could grab a second javelin and throw it at a +0. As long as each limb is used only once per attack, you can do with it whatever you want.


The Hound Archon provides a good example of a relevant attack block:

Quote:
Melee bite +8 (1d8+3), slam +8 (1d4+1) or mwk greatsword +9/+4 (2d6+3), bite +3 (1d8+2)

It shows two options, either two attacks which are a bite and a slam, in any order or - this is an exclusive or - three attacks, two strikes with a greatsword and a bite, combined in whichever order.


You can mix and match ranged and melee attacks in a full attack action as you see fit. As others have noted, you must make sure that any special attacks can be done as part of a full attack sequence.

Take an unchained monk as an example. At 11th level his full attack (flurry) is +11/+11/+11/+6/+1. He starts in melee and drops his foe with his first 2 hits. He still has 3 attacks left, but no one within melee range. But he can continue to attack using shuriken (they have the monk trait).

Or take an archer with a bite attack. If he starts 10' away from an enemy he can make his usual ranged full attack and then 5' step and bite.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Can you full attack with both melee and ranged, and if so, what about unique ranged attacks of monsters? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.