DPR Olympics - Low level edition


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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While I've seen a lot of DPR contests for level 10 and up, there seems to be a lack of disgustingly optimized beginner adventurers. So let's see what kind of third level shenanigans people can come up with instead of focusing on levels people may not even get to play at.
The contest will include three specific rounds of combat which are scenarios you should encounter pretty often. An approaching enemy, an engaged enemy, and a distant enemy. These three rounds are part of the same encounter.

====

Build Rules:
Character level 3.
All Paizo content is available, but no monstrous races or obviously overpowered ones (like Drow Noble).
20 Point Buy, two character traits, and standard wealth by level (3000 gp).
You build must be capable of dealing with the three rounds of combat during two separate encounters on the same day.
All saves must have at least a +2 bonus.
A minimum AC/HP isn't required, although you get the "Viable" stamp of approval if you actually survive the three rounds.

Pre-Buffing:
You are allowed two buffs before combat begins, but their duration must be at least 10 minutes.

====

Your opponent will be the Dire Ape. It has 10 ft reach, an AC of 15, and a CMD of 20. It uses its Bite attack for charges and standard actions attacks.
Any other relevant statistic such as saving throws and touch AC is in the description, although we're pretending it has unlimited HP for our calculations.

Round 1:

O.O.O.O.A.A
O.O.O.O.A.A
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
.O.C.C.O.O.O
.O.C.C.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.Y.O
O.O.O.O.O.O

The Ape is standing 30 ft away from You. It is clearly visible and you're fairly certain it will charge you on it's next turn. To your left you have Cover in the form of a giant stone.
Remember to add the charging bonus/penalty if relevant.

***

Enemy actions: It will prioritize charging before a standard action attack. It will never ready an action.

====

Round 2:

O.O.O.D.O.O
O.D.O.D.O.O
O.D.O.A.A.O
D.O.O.A.A.O
D.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.Y.O.O
O.D.O.O.O.O
O.D.D.D.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O

Either You or the Ape used the previous turn to approach the other. You are 5 ft away from each other. There is Difficult Terrain nearby. Neither of you suffer an AC penalty from charging.

***

Enemy actions: Full-attack if possible, otherwise move and standard action attack.

====

Round 3:

O.O.O.O.O.O
O.Y.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.F.O.O
O.O.O.O.O.O
O.O.O.A.A.O
O.O.O.A.A.O
O.O.O.O.O.O

You are standing 20 ft away from the Ape and your Friend is engaged with the beast.

***

Enemy actions: Full-attacking your ally, or move and attack if you manage to move your ally out of its reach. It is blind with rage, and would not care about provoking Attacks of Opportunity.

====

Your "contest DPR" is the average of your three rounds.


PFS legality?


Human
Zen Archer Monk

Traits:
Reactionary
Deadeye Bowman

Feats:
1*. EWP (Orc HornBow)
1*. Improved Unarmed Strike
1*. Perfect Strike
1*. Point Blank Shot
1. Improved Initiative
2*. Weapon Focus
2*. Dodge
3*. Point Blank Master
3. Dedicated Adversary (Dire Ape)

Can't crunch the numbers while at work, but it's a good start.


The dire ape is too easy; archers just shoot it from extreme range while sitting on a cheap store-bought riding animal, easily retreating if necessary, since, with a move of only 30, the ape can never catch them.

~ ~ ~

My favorite low-level martial (note: not necessarily the most extremely damaging in a paper contest, but loaded with all-around flexibility and general imperviousness):

STR: 15
DEX: 14
CON+ 16 race: dwarf, 20pt buy
INT: 12
WIS+ 16
CHA- 5

traits: Glory of Old (regional), Berserker of the Society (combat)
01 Barbarian1 [Savage-Technologist], Steel Soul
02 Cleric1 (Rowdrosh, domains: Animal[Fur], Travel)
03 Fighter1 [Combat Reflexes], Extra Rage

Saving throws vs magic or poison are Fort+12, Reflex+9, Will+10 while raging at 1st-level, because dwarves rock. Move is 40, 50 with Longstrider going, 60 with a swift-action -- in plate.

Pick up a bardiche, guzzle a potion of Enlarge, and let the freebies roll in.


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Anyway, on to DPR maximization at the cost of bugger all else....

Quote:

All Paizo content is available, but no monstrous races or obviously overpowered ones (like Drow Noble).

20 Point Buy, two character traits, and standard wealth by level (3000 gp).
You build must be capable of dealing with the three rounds of combat during two separate encounters on the same day.
All saves must have at least a +2 bonus.
It is blind with rage, and would not care about provoking Attacks of Opportunity.

No, we are blind with rage....

STR++ 22
DEX: 14
CON: 12 (Orc, 20pt array: 18,14,12,12,8,7)
INT- 6
WIS- 10
CHA- 5

Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Bestial Wrath
01 Barbarian1 [Wild Rager], EWP: Butchering Axe
02 Barbarian2 [Wild Fighting][rage power: Animal Fury]
03 Fighter1 [Quick Draw], Power Attack

relevant gear: 2x MW bardiche, MW butchering axe (in Scabbard of Vigor), wetstone, potions of Enlarge Person & CLW

On-going buffs of 10+ minute duration: Heroism (+2 to attack),
...bardiches are sharpened with wetstone (+1 damage, one time only)

Hitpoints are mediocre, and AC is utter trash, but that ape has an over 90% chance of dropping from full-up in any single round of combat with us, let alone three -- and not to mention we have the Orc Ferocity racial trait.

We have seven rounds of rage (bringing our low saves up to +2 or more) per day, just enough for two 3-round combats.

Round 1:
- move action: drink potion of Enlarge Person
- standard action: brace bardiche to receive a charge
- free action: rage (bringing all saves to at least +2)
...the ape then charges, getting skewered for double-damage
Enlarged raging power attack bonus w/MW: +14, vs ape's charging AC of 13
[.95][2][23]+[crit.1][.95][23]+[.95x1] = 46.835

(We could, alternatively, step forward 5' after having grown 5' closer as well, and just smack the ape, then take the AoO when it charges, but this results in slightly lower damage versus the 2x brace attack because there are two .95 die rolls involved rather than only one.)

Round 2: full-attack +12/+12/+6(bite) vs AC15
...set Scabbard bonus to +4 (butchering axe is now a 4d6+4 weapon)
[.95][2][33]+[crit.05][2][.95][33]+[.55][7.5]+[.05][.65][7.5] = 70.20375

Round 3:
...quickdraw second bardiche and full attack:
[.95][2][23]+[crit.1][.95][23]+[0.9975] = 46.8825

Total: 163.92125

Not counted: DPR from slaughtering our ally should we go berserk after failing a will save and splick them too. (Like we care about that wanker...unless he's the cleric. Oh fudge, why did we kill the cleric? Our rage is almost up....)


Catfolk Hunter, Big cat companion.
Take cats claws for 1d4/1d4 claws.
Traits: Dirty fighter (+1 damage vs flanked foes), Called (Reroll 1 nat 1, 1/day).
Feats: 1) Catfolk exemplar: Sharp Claws, they are now 1d6/1d6.
2) Free teamwork: Outflank.
3) Evolved companion: Pounce (On our big cat companion).
3) Free teamwork: Distracting Charge.

STR 16, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 8, WIS 12, CHA 13.
SAVES are all at least +2.

Begin with swift action animal focus self tiger, companion will have bull at all times. Hunter does distracting Charge ape, eating AOO, strike with claw for 1d4+3.
This triggers teamwork feats, companion charges to flank position getting off +4 outflank, +2 from charge, +2 from teamwork distracting charge. Then pounces for 1d6+3, 1d4+3, 1d4+3.
2nd round, swift action STR focus, then full attack Claw/Claw, 1d6+7/1d6+7. Companion: 1d6+3/1d6+3/1d6+3. Plus if any attacks crit, free AOO from the other.

With limited prebuffing we could get magic fang, savage maw, lead blades, or acid maw, but duration is less than 10min/level.
We can use frostbite as a touch spell to fatigue ape if necessary.


It's not clear whether you go first or whether the ape does, or if initiative is rolled.

Also I think these are 3 different dire apes so you can't set an ape up one round, then murderise it the next. If I'm wrong let me know.

I've got a couple of ideas mulling but more development is required.


Secret Wizard wrote:
PFS legality?

Nah, go wild.

avr wrote:
It's not clear whether you go first or whether the ape does, or if initiative is rolled.

Initiative isn't rolled, and you always go first in all three rounds.

Secret Wizard wrote:
Also I think these are 3 different dire apes so you can't set an ape up one round, then murderise it the next. If I'm wrong let me know.

Three different Dire Apes, since I'm pretty much assuming they'll get shredded one after the other. If you have a build that absolutely depend on it, you can treat the Apes from round 1 and round 2 as the same Ape.


Quote:
Your opponent will be the Dire Ape. It has 10 ft reach, an AC of 15, and a CMD of 20. It uses its Bite attack for charges and standard actions attacks.

Why kill monsters when there's good money to be had selling them to the arenas?

traits: Artist of Battle in All Forms(Grapple), Defender of the Society
01 Fighter1 [FEAT*], Shield Focus, EWP:Mancatcher
02 uMonk1 [Improved Grapple] (...switch alignment to neutral at 3rd)
03 Barbarian [SavTech], Quick Draw
*feat retrained to Bull-Catcher Style at 2nd (cost 200gp)

gear: +1 heavy armor (breastplate + armored kilt, 1470gp), +1 heavy steel shield (1170gp), 160gp in variety nonmasterwork weapons (mancatchers in several sizes + bounty hunter list of proficient items, etc), potion of enlarge person, waveblade, shurikens

Armor class: With Defender of the Society, Shield Focus, a +1 heavy shield, and +1 (7+3) armor, our man has a raging AC of 26 at 3rd. The dire ape is +6 to attack. The ape will need nat20s to get anything through the fighter's armor normally, or an 18 on a charge or while our man is Enlarged. So, our man doesn't care about DPR. He'll use a mancatcher to snare it, and then, while it's held fast 20' away, flurry-pepper it with shurkens until it's unconscious (we don't want to inadvertently bomb it to neg-Con with highly-damaging weapons).

Pre-combat: ready-action declared to drink potion. (No buffs, to make it a challenge.)

Tactics: first round, drink readied potion and get big (mancatcher reach is now 20'), quickdraw mancatcher, activate Bull-Catcher Style as a swift-action, and ready to grapple an adversary moving toward us. (Bonus to grapple using this feat, with an 18 Str and Improved Grapple, is +13 versus the charging ape's dumped & worthless touch-AC, and we'll be successful rolling a 2. Once caught, the ape will need a nat-20 strength check to snap the mancatcher to free itself that way. Not to worry, as we have spares.)


Slim Jim wrote:

Anyway, on to DPR maximization at the cost of bugger all else....

Total: 163.92125

Impressive, but a couple things are off.

The Scabbard of Vigor can only be used once per day, so you don't fulfill the "two separate encounters" requirement. You've also chosen Heroism as one of your ongoing buffs but have no way to benefit from this spell.


Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:

Anyway, on to DPR maximization at the cost of bugger all else....

Total: 163.92125

Impressive, but a couple things are off. The Scabbard of Vigor can only be used once per day, so you don't fulfill the "two separate encounters" requirement.
It's only used in the second of the three encounters, the 10' apart slugfest (labeled as 5' apart, but there's a clear square between the combatant). The first and last contests use the polearm, not the axe, which is why they're doing 46ish rather than 70.
Quote:
You've also chosen Heroism as one of your ongoing buffs but have no way to benefit from this spell.

It augments attack-bonus, helping to offset the -2 Wild Fighting penalty. ...speaking of which, I see that my #3 numbers are slightly on the high side, as that's a +12/+12 full-attack, not a +14 single, versus ape AC15. So the .95s should be .9s, as 2s also miss. (This reduces my total by 2.415, to 161.50625)


Slim Jim wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
Impressive, but a couple things are off. The Scabbard of Vigor can only be used once per day, so you don't fulfill the "two separate encounters" requirement.
It's only used in one of the three encounters, the 5' apart slugfest; the first and last contests use the polearm, not the axe.

Facing the three rounds of combat is one encounter. You must be able to deal your three-round damage twice per day.

Quote:
You[sic] build must be capable of dealing with the three rounds of combat during two separate encounters on the same day.

This is mostly to prevent people from splurging on consumables. I'm not really interested in a build that takes the Rich Parents trait to afford a scroll of Glimpse of the Akashic to get a +16 to Attack/Damage.

====

Wonderstell wrote:
avr wrote:
It's not clear whether you go first or whether the ape does, or if initiative is rolled.
Initiative isn't rolled, and you always go first in all three rounds.

Hm. Yeah now I see where the confusion came from.

From the start I had the idea that it was the same Ape during all three rounds, which is why the readied action could have been important for what happens in round 2. But now the mention of readied actions just implies that you aren't automatically going first.
So ignore that, if you would.


Wonderstell wrote:
Facing the three rounds of combat is one encounter. You must be able to deal your three-round damage twice per day.
To be fair, your OP's last sentence only asked for damage from one encounter, not that the damage from two three-round encounters be averaged.
Wonderstell wrote:
This is mostly to prevent people from splurging on consumables.

Since this is a 3rd-level contest, I'd suggest getting rid any of all item-buffing above 1st-level consumables. PCs just don't budget that kind of money for expensive one-shots except maybe a CMW or Invisibility potion (i.e., defensive items).


Race: Goblin
Class: Alchemist
Archetype: Toxicant/Vivisectionist
Discovery: Fire Brand
Toxic Secretion: Bleed
Traits: Firebug & Focused Burn
Feats: Burn! Burn! Burn! & Rapid Reload
Weapon: Stonebow
Armor: Mithral Shirt
Items: Hybridization Funnel, Alchemists Fire, Acid, Alchemical Sling Bullets
Stats: Str 8 Dex 22 Con 14 Int 18 Wis 10 Cha 8

Downtime prepwork: Hybridize Alchemist Fire & Acid, fill Alchemical Sling Bullets with the new hybrid splash weapon, apply toxic secretion poison to bullets.

Damage 2d6+1d4+4 Fire, 1d6+4 Acid, 1d6 Burn, on failed DC 15 fortitude save Poison 4 damage + 1d6 Bleed ... and an extra 2d6 if Sneak Attack. For an average of 24.5 + 7.5(poison) + 7 Sneak Attack, minimum of

If it were level 4 the damage could be pushed to absurdity with Explosive Missile for an additional 2d6+1d4+6 Fire... but due to level 3 restriction that’s off the table...

For your scenarios:
Prebuff: imbibe Toxic Secretion (24 hour duration)
#1 move behind Cover, Swift action Fire Brand, free action load alchemical sling bullet (alchemist Fire - acid), standard action attack. If the dire ape survives and lands an attack it is affected by toxic secretion’s poison again.

#2 move back behind rough terrain as far away as possible, accepting an AoO possibly poisoning the dire ape, swift action Fire Brand, Free Action load, Standard action attack.

#3 same routine, but this time no movement needed. Due to alchemical sling bullets there is little to no risk of friendly fire as the alchemical splash weapons become direct hit only.

With an average of 24.5~32~39 DPR the dire ape won’t survive past 1 round of combat usually. If it does survive it suffers additional damage when it attacks, and is suffering continual damage each round from Bleed and Burn.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I guess I'll take a similar angle. There's probably a lot more refinement to be done.

Race: Half-Elf
Class: Alchemist (Metamorph) 1 / Bloodrager (Id Rager) 1 / Shifter (Adaptive) 1
Traits: Accelerated Drinker + *any*
Feats: Half-Elf Bonus (Exotic Weapon Prof), 1st Level- Dedicated Adversary (animals), Power Attack from Id Rager (anger emotional focus), 3rd level- Spirit Oni Master

Items: +1 dragonhide breastplate, 2x butchering axe, 2x potions of bulls strength.

Base Stats: 18 / 12 / 14 / 10 / 14 / 8
In-Combat Stats: 34 / 10 / 18 / 8 / 14 / 8
AC: 18
HP: 35 ish
Saves: +10/+4/+4

Attack Line w/ power attack: bite +14 (d6+16 x2), claw +14 (d6+16 x2), claw +14 (d6+16 x2), gore +14 (d6+16 x2), tail slap +9 (d6+9 x2)
-and/or-
Attack Line w/ power attack while moving: butchering axe +14 (4d6+23 x3)

-----
Explanation:

Metamorph Alchemist gets 1 hour of alter self, once per day. Due to the long duration, I've counted this as lasting both fights. Alter Self is used to polymorph into a troglodyte for bite/claw/claw. It grants a +2 size bonus to strength. Mutagen is imbibed before combat for 10 minutes of +4 strength, -2 int, +2 nat armor. All are alchemical bonuses.

Id Rager gets bloodrage for +4 morale bonus to strength, plus another +2 untyped Str from the Anger aspect, and a -2 penalty to dex. 6 rounds of bloodrage is enough for both fights.

Adaptive Shifter grants a tail slap attack, as well as the ability to enlarge person as a swift action 6x per day. Str bonus from enlarge person doesn't stack w/ alter self.

Total Strength: 18 base, +2 size, +4 alch, +4 morale, +4 enh, +2 untyped = 34!

Round 1: Start with butchering axe in one hand and other with potion of bull's strength. Delay until after the ape . 5ft step out of its reach, move action drink potion of bulls strength (+4 enh bonus to str), swift action enlarge person, free action bloodrage, make a power attack with the axe. Avg damage this round: 38.7

Round 2: Drop butchering axe and full power attack with claw/claw/bite/gore/tail slap. Avg damage this round: 87.6

Round 3: Move forward, draw and power attack with 2nd butchering axe. Avg damage this round: 38.7

Avg across 3 rounds: 55 DPR


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The reason I was thinking of setup was that throat slicer is, after all, the maximum damage possible on a standard action. Anyway, there's other means of getting that online so:

Awesome Annie, gnome heavens oracle 2 / summoner 1
Str 10-2=8, Dex 14, Con 12+2=14, Int 10, Wis 7, Cha 18+2=20
Saves F+2, R+2, W+3
Revelations: awesome display
Feats: persistent spell, spontaneous metafocus
Traits: both the metamagic reducers (color spray)
Gear: spell component pouch
Spells: (Oracle, 6/day) cure light wounds, color spray (save DC 17), 2 others.
(Summoner, 3/day) mage armor, rejuvenate eidolon

Bob, biped eidolon
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 11
Attack +5, Damage 2d6+6
AC 19 (Armor +4, NA +2, Dex +1, Shield +2)
Saves F+4, R+2, W+3
Skills: Acrobatics +2 (+6 to move thru a threatened area)
Evolutions: Slam, improved damage (slam), improved ability (strength)
Feat: throat slicer
Gear: +1 buckler, cloak of resistance +1, belt of tumbling

The plan: AA moves to an appropriate location (a 5' step back in round 2) and casts persistent color spray at the ape, then Bob moves in and punches the ape in the throat (coup de grace via throat slicer). If the ape makes the save then Bob just moves in and punches normally, trying to avoid the AoO of course. With 6 color sprays spellcasting endurance will not be an issue.

The numbers: The ape needs a 13 to make the color spray save, twice. Its chance of doing so is 0.4*0.4 = 16%. A coup de grace auto-hits and auto-crits, doing 4d6+12 damage. If the 4d6 roll totals 6 this means a 10% chance of not dying, 5 means 15%, 4 means 20%, otherwise the ape needs a nat 20. The total chance of making the Fort save is about 6%.

Therefore that's 0.84*0.94= about 79% infinite damage (instant death), 0.84*0.06 = about 5% chance of average 26 damage (1.3) in the case of failing the will and making the fort save, 0.16*(0.55 + 0.55*0.05) * 13 average damage = 1.2 damage in the case of making the will save and just getting punched. Total 0.79*infinity + 2.5 damage.

Would I ever play this? No. Why did I make this? Basically because there's an odd belief that spellcasters come online in effectiveness late, and I wanted to point out how color spray can dominate from the start. Also infinite damage is nice to have on your resume.

A mounted build's coming up next.


Slim Jim wrote:
Since this is a 3rd-level contest, I'd suggest getting rid any of all item-buffing above 1st-level consumables.

Good idea. Let's see what people come up with first, though.

===

"Chell Raighn wrote:
With an average of 24.5~32~39 DPR the dire ape won’t survive past 1 round of combat usually. If it does survive it suffers additional damage when it attacks, and is suffering continual damage each round from Bleed and Burn.

Huh. This is actually the most alchemist alchemist build I've ever seen. Impressive.

===

Cellion wrote:
Metamorph Alchemist gets 1 hour of alter self, once per day. Due to the long duration, I've counted this as lasting both fights.

I'll allow it. But Mutagen requires a full hour to brew which means you wouldn't be able to activate mutagen in the second encounter. But I believe you currently hold the most damage.

And FYI, Dedicated Adversary (Animals) isn't a legal choice. You'd have to take Dedicated Adversary (Dire Ape) since the feat is much more specific than the Favored Enemy class feature.

===

avr wrote:
Also infinite damage is nice to have on your resume.

It really is.


Swarming Knight

Stats: Strength 16, Dexterity 14, Constitution 10, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 11
Race: Ratfolk
Traits: Dirty Fighter
Class: Rogue(1), Cavalier(1), Monk(1)
Archetype(s): Sohei(monk)
Feats: Scurrying Swarmer(1st), Accomplished Sneak Attacker(3rd)
Bonus Feats: Precise Strike(2nd), Mounted Skirmisher(3rd)
Wealth: 2,308 / 3000
Gear: +1 Sansetsukon (2,308gp)
Mount: Wolf
Fight Sequence: Turn 1: Have mount move up to and power attack enemy, Flurry (2 attacks) for 1d8+3+1+1+2d6+1d6 each (40 avg total) + Wolf attack 1d6+1+3 (7 dmg avg). Total Dmg = 47 which should be enough to drop a normal dire ape in one round.

Since the same tactic will work all 3 times and it was stated that the 1st and 2nd apes could be treated as being the same creature I can activate challenge against them which adds another 2 points of damage per round per those fights

Total damage: 49+49+47 = 145
145/3 = 48 DPR


LordKailas wrote:
Swarming Knight

It's a nice straightforward build that can go on the whole day, but I think you may have made a mistake with the attack bonus, no?

I'm having trouble seeing how it reaches 0.95 accuracy.

3 (Str) +2 (Flanking) +1 (BAB) +1 (Size) +1 (Enhancement) -1 (Flurry)
= +7/+7


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OK, mounted. Here we go.

Aaron Oakbrain, human cleric of some odd philosophy 1 / fighter 1 / gendarme cavalier 1
Str 16+2=18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7
Plant/growth subdomain, nobility domain
Charge attack, enlarged: attack +11 (+2 BAB, +2 charge, +5 Str, -1 size, +1 enhancement, +2 sacred) (+13 to confirm crits), damage 6d6+42
Normal attack, enlarged: attack +9, damage 2d6+14
Charge attack, normal size: +11 (+13 to confirm crits), damage 3d8+39
Saves F+7, R+2, W+5
Feats: mounted combat, ride-by attack, spirited charge, power attack, furious focus
Traits: deft dodger, orc impaler
Gear: +1 lance, banded mail, warhammer
Buffs: Ceremony (augmented), ant haul on mount

Horse animal companion
Feats: undersized mount
Gear: leather barding, military saddle

Round 1: Enlarge (his long-suffering mount can take it), then charge. Lances have reach so he doesn't charge far. Hits on 4+, confirms crits on 2+, but the crit only adds 4d6+28. (0.85 * 63) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 42) = 55.545 damage on the charge, then if our infinite HP ape moves in to attack do 0.75 + (0.75*0.05*2) = 17.325 damage, total 72.87

Round 2: Move 10' away (taking an AoO; it's OK, Aaron's tough), enlarge, attack, then take an AoO as the ape approaches. 2* (0.75 + (0.75*0.05*2))*21 = 34.65 damage. If taking an AoO would risk taking him out he won't do it. Probably.

Round 3. The ape's too close to lance-charge while enlarged; if he can do a normal-size lance charge without squashing his friend (possible I think) then (0.85 * 52.5) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 35) = 46.2875, otherwise enlarge, 5' step in and attack for 17.325.

The average of these comes to 51.27 or 41.62 depending on that round 3 ruling. Less than Cellion's monster either way sadly.


Wonderstell wrote:
LordKailas wrote:
Swarming Knight

It's a nice straightforward build that can go on the whole day, but I think you may have made a mistake with the attack bonus, no?

I'm having trouble seeing how it reaches 0.95 accuracy.

3 (Str) +2 (Flanking) +1 (BAB) +1 (Size) +1 (Enhancement) -1 (Flurry)
= +7/+7

That's fair I didnt consider my bonus to hit. ive reworked the build and taken bonus to hit into cobsideration. my damage output is lower awsuming the wolf always misses.

Swarming Knight

Stats: Strength 16, Dexterity 14, Constitution 10, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 10, Charisma 11
Race: Ratfolk
Region: numeria
Traits: Dirty Fighter, Ancestral Weapon(cold iron)
Class: Cavalier(2), Monk(1)
Archetype(s): Sohei(monk)
Order: Order of the Blossom
Feats: Scurrying Swarmer(1st), Dedicated Adversary[Dire Ape](3rd)
Bonus Feats: Precise Strike(2nd), Mounted Skirmisher(3rd)
Wealth: 2,550 / 3000
Gear: MW cold iron Sansetsukon (free), Potion of Heroismx3 (2,250). whet stone(2cp), wildblood x 3(300gp)
Mount: Wolf
Attack Bonus: +3 (bab) +3 (str) +2 (flnk) +1 (MW) +1 (size) +2 (DA) -2 (Flry)+2(hrsm)+1(awp)
Fight Sequence: prep: drink potion of heroism and drink wild blood concoction. Turn 1: Have mount move up to and power attack enemy, Flurry (2 attacks) for 1d8(wp)+3(str)+2(DA)+1(DF)+1d6(SA)+1d6(PS)+2(hrsm)+2(WB)+0.5(WS) each (43 avg total) & wolf power attacks likely missing Total Dmg = 43 which should be enough to drop a normal dire ape in one round.

Since the same tactic will work all 3 times and it was stated that the 1st and 2nd apes could be treated as being the same creature I can activate challenge against them which adds another 4 points of damage per round per those fights

Total damage: 47+47+43 = 137
137/3 = 46 DPR


This probably isn't as competetive as some other builds on here, but I like it. Also this takes a standard action to activate, but I think it'd be a pretty viable archer build for low levels.

Race: Elf/Half-Elf/Half-Orc/Human.

Stats: S:12 D:18 C:12 I:16 W:10 C:07 (Elf gets 12 WIS)

Classes:
- Magus 2 (Eldritch Archer)
- Occultist 1 (vanilla)

Feats:
- Point Blank Shot
- Rapid Shot
- (Human gets Precise shot, doesn't change DPR for this but would be useful in a real game).

Equipment:
- Composite Longbow +1 (Half-Orc gets an Orc Hornbow, but I won't include that in the DPR)
- Transmutation Implement, gives +2 to one physical stat (which brings us to 20 DEX).

Round 1 - Buff: Swift Action Arcane Pool, Standard Action Legacy Weapon for Animal Bane, gives a total of +3 to hit and 2d6+3 damage per hit.

Round 2 - Attack: Spell-Combat (Ray of Frost) + Rapid Shot = 3 attacks (at -4 to hit).

Attack: 1 (BAB) +5 (DEX) +1 (Arcane Pool) +2 (Bane) +1 (Point Blank Shot) = +10
Or +8/+8 (with Rapid Shot OR Spell-Combat)
Or +6/+6/+6 (with Rappid Shot AND Spell-Combat).

Damage: 1d8 (bow) +1 (STR) +1 (Arcane Pool) +2 (Bane) +1 (Point Blank Shot) +2d6 (Bane-bonus-dice) = 1d8+5+2d6 ~=16.5 damage per hit, or ~=35.5 damage on a crit (2d6 bonuse bane dice not multiplied on crits).

Attack Routine: +6/+6/+6 - 1d8+5+2d6 damage

Average DPR vs the Dire Ape: (AC15, 30HP)
1 shot = 13.96 (not great, but sometimes you need to move)
2 shots = 24.43 (not sure when you'd ever do this, but I thought I'd include it)
3 shots = 31.41 (this is why it's good)

Just coz I wanted to check it out, the Half-Orc gets ~36.135 DPR)

At this level this character should have 4 Arcane Pool points and 4 Mental Focus points, meaning this can be done 4 times per day, and the buffs both last 10 rounds (so you get 9 useful rounds from the buffs). The final time each day that you use Legacy Weapon your Resonant Power is used up, so for the final fight you'd lose the +2 DEX (and be at 18 DEX), which would drop your DPR to ~28.7925 (Half-Orc goes down to ~33.12375).

This build would obviously work better if you have someone else in the front-line, so I don't know if it passes the test for this thread.

Also I haven't even looked at traits, and I'm sure someone could do something better with the 3rd feat from human to make this better.


MrCharisma wrote:
(Human gets Precise shot, doesn't change DPR for this but would be useful in a real game).

Oh but it does. In the last round the Dire Ape threatens your ally, which means they're engaged in melee.

MrCharisma wrote:
This probably isn't as competetive as some other builds on here, but I like it. Also this takes a standard action to activate, but I think it'd be a pretty viable archer build for low levels.

The Occultist is a great dip for any martial, especially at lower levels. I'd check out the Reliquarian archetype for anyone with a weak will save as you base Mental Focus on wisdom and trade out one of your Implements for a Domain.

It is however quite hard to compensate for losing your first standard action.

====

avr wrote:
Round 3. The ape's too close to lance-charge while enlarged; if he can do a normal-size lance charge without squashing his friend (possible I think)

Yah, it should be. The closest square to attack from is directly to the left of your ally.


Wonderstell wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
(Human gets Precise shot, doesn't change DPR for this but would be useful in a real game).
Oh but it does. In the last round the Dire Ape threatens your ally, which means they're engaged in melee.

Well the Human it is (DPR drops to around 20 without Precise Shot, so Human wins hands-down for that round).

Wonderstell wrote:
MrCharisma wrote:
This probably isn't as competetive as some other builds on here, but I like it. Also this takes a standard action to activate, but I think it'd be a pretty viable archer build for low levels.

The Occultist is a great dip for any martial, especially at lower levels. I'd check out the Reliquarian archetype for anyone with a weak will save as you base Mental Focus on wisdom and trade out one of your Implements for a Domain.

It is however quite hard to compensate for losing your first standard action.

I love the Occultist, it's my new favourite class.

It's especially good early with the Magus, because you can get Bane online earlier than most due to your Arcane Pool (Legacy Weapon needs a +1 before special enchantments), and you get more Bane attacks with Spell-Combat.

Relequarian is nice, but for this I wanted the INT synergy. Also personally I prefer the flavour of the vanilla Occultist, but that's just me.

Oh I should have said the saves for this character would be:
Fort: +6
Ref: +5
Will: +5 (+6 for Elf)
(Half-Orc could get +8/+7/+7 with Sacred Tattoo + Fate's favoured)

Hitpoints wouldn't be great, ~22HP (including FCB Magus).

AC should be ~19 without any buffing (chain shirt plus DEX)

As I said, better in a group, but good enough to 1-turn the Dire Ape.

Also I forgot to add the damage for Ray of Frost, but it's only ~0.94 average DPR or something, so it wouldn't make that much difference.

Silver Crusade

Wonderstell wrote:
The Occultist is a great dip for any martial, especially at lower levels. I'd check out the Reliquarian archetype for anyone with a weak will save as you base Mental Focus on wisdom and trade out one of your Implements for a Domain.

Unfortunately, as written, the Reliquarian still uses Int as it's casting stat. Wisdom only affects mental focus. :(

Reliquarian wrote:
Divine Focus (Su): A reliquarian uses her Wisdom modifier, rather than her Intelligence modifier, to determine the amount of mental focus available to her each day. This ability modifies mental focus.

I'm not aware of any errata that changed this. I agree that the archetype would be much better balanced if the casting stat was changed to wisdom.


Wonderstell wrote:
"Chell Raighn wrote:
With an average of 24.5~32~39 DPR the dire ape won’t survive past 1 round of combat usually. If it does survive it suffers additional damage when it attacks, and is suffering continual damage each round from Bleed and Burn.
Huh. This is actually the most alchemist alchemist build I've ever seen. Impressive.

Why thankyou, I’m actually playing an alchemist with a very similar build to what I posted in a campaign even. We’re only level 3 so far and I’m the second highest damage in the party (when I can afford my alchemical supplies) behind the half-ogre barbarian... so I had some first hand experience of how potent this sort of alchemist build can be and figured I’d see about maximizing its potential for your topic... (in campaign I’m playing a gnome not a goblin, and more focused towards crafting than damage)... in practice it is a very expensive build at low levels, but at higher levels the cost tapers off comparatively. (50~75% WBL to ammunition at low levels, 5% or less at higher levels)


PCScipio wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
The Occultist is a great dip for any martial, especially at lower levels. I'd check out the Reliquarian archetype for anyone with a weak will save as you base Mental Focus on wisdom and trade out one of your Implements for a Domain.
Unfortunately, as written, the Reliquarian still uses Int as it's casting stat. Wisdom only affects mental focus. :(

Yeah, unfortunately it's a very MAD archetype if you're single-classed.

But as a 1-level dip you only need 12 int to fully benefit from the spellcasting (two spells per day), which is easily affordable. And even if you've dumped intelligence (as some martials are prone to do), your wisdom is still getting you Legacy Weapon, a +2 enhancement bonus to a physical ability score, and a domain with a separate pool of uses from your mental focus.

===

Chell Raighn wrote:
in practice it is a very expensive build at low levels, but at higher levels the cost tapers off comparatively. (50~75% WBL to ammunition at low levels, 5% or less at higher levels)

I'd say the breakpoint is at level 5, when you qualify for Master Alchemist and can craft ten times as fast. With a little downtime you can craft all your alchemical items yourself and even make a profit.

===

Slim Jim wrote:

No, we are blind with rage....

Round 1:
[.95][2][23]+[crit.1][.95][23]+[.95x1] = 46.835

I've just noticed, but you know you'd get an AoO when Bracing, right?

Even without the Scabbard trick and Heroism attack bonus, you should still get around 170 damage over three rounds. Which is more than your original DPR, actually.


I think I have to revise AO slightly. On the upside whetstones are a thing, on the downside I suspect the Ceremony (nobility) spell bonus only lasts for one attack. The damage drops to 46.7 average over the 3 rounds.

Aaron Oakenskull:
Human cleric of some odd philosophy 1 / fighter 1 / gendarme cavalier 1
Str 16+2=18, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 7
Plant/growth subdomain, nobility domain
First charge attack, enlarged, nobility ceremony bonus: attack +11 (+2 BAB, +2 charge, +5 Str, -1 size, +1 enhancement, +2 sacred) (+13 to confirm crits), damage 6d6+45
Normal attack, enlarged: attack +7, damage 2d6+12
Charge attack, normal size: +9 (+11 to confirm crits), damage 3d8+33
Saves F+7, R+2, W+5
Feats: mounted combat, ride-by attack, spirited charge, power attack, furious focus
Traits: deft dodger, orc impaler
Gear: +1 lance, banded mail, warhammer, 2 whetstones
Buffs: Ceremony (nobility, augmented), ant haul on mount

Horse animal companion
Feats: undersized mount
Gear: leather barding, military saddle

Round 1: Enlarge (his long-suffering mount can take it), then charge. Lances have reach so he doesn't charge far. Hits on 4+, confirms crits on 2+, but the crit only adds 4d6+28. (0.85 * 66) + (0.05 * 0.95 * 44) = 58.19 damage on the charge, then if our infinite HP ape moves in to attack do 0.75 + (0.75*0.05*2) * 19 = 15.675 damage, total 73.865

Round 2: Move 10' away (taking an AoO; it's OK, Aaron's tough), enlarge, attack, then take an AoO as the ape approaches. 2* (0.65 + (0.65*0.05*2))*21 = 30.03 damage. If taking an AoO would risk taking him out he won't do it. Probably.

Round 3. The ape's too close to lance-charge while enlarged; a normal-size lance charge does (0.75 * 46.5) + (0.05 * 0.85 * 31) = 36.1925

The average of these comes to 46.7 damage.


Wonderstell wrote:
Slim Jim wrote:
[.95][2][23]+[crit.1][.95][23]+[.95x1] = 46.835
I've just noticed, but you know you'd get an AoO when Bracing, right?

Well, you know those Wild Ragers are prone to forget important things. (See also: Remembering who your allies are. Do not kill the cleric!)


Killing with Kindness:
Urban Id Rager (Kindness) 1 / Mutagenic Mauler Brawler 1 / Reliquarian Occultist 1

Human, 20 PB
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7

Racial Traits / Character Traits:
Bonus Feat, Heart of the Fey / Accelerated Drinker, Empathic Diplomat

Feats and Class Features:
1 Extra Rage, Friendly Switch, Skill Focus (Diplomacy) (B), Fast Movement, Controlled Bloodrage, Opening Strike
2 Mutagen
3 Power Attack, Legacy Weapon, Travel Domain

Abilities with a limited amount of uses per day:
Controlled Bloodrage: 11 rounds (Free)
Legacy Weapon: 3 minutes (Standard)
Agile Feet: 5 rounds (Free)

====

Items:
+1 Lucerne Hammer (2315)
Breastplate (200)
Potion of Enlarge Person x6 (300)

2815/3000 GP

====

Offense:
Enlarged, Legacy Weapon

+1 Bane Lucerne Hammer: +13 (3d6+21, 20/x2)+2d6

Attack: 10 Strength, 2 BAB, 3 Enhancement, -1 Size, -1 PA
Damage: 15 Strength, 3 Enhancement, +3 PA

Defense:
Enlarged, Controlled Bloodrage, Mutagen

HP 24
AC 18, Touch 11, Flat 17, CMD 24
Fort +8, Reflex +4, Will +5

Movement 35: 30 +10 (Fast Movement) +10 (Travel Domain) -15 (Medium Armor)

***

Combat:
Ongoing buffs: Mutagen

Round 1: Drink potion of Enlarge Person as a move action and use Legacy Weapon to apply Bane (Animals) as a standard action. Start raging and wait for the AoO.

[0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] = 38.07 DPR.

Round 2: Standard action attack, and if it hits then we use Opening Strike to attack again as a swift action (cheesy, but we're treated as both Spiritualist and Phantom so it should work).
Move action away, through difficult terrain if necessary with Agile Feet, and wait for the AoO. We do eat the Dire Ape's AoO, but that's better than taking a full-attack.

Standard + Swift + AoO: [0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] + 0.95[0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] + [0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] = 112.3 DPR

Round 3: We approach and as part of our movement use Friendly Switch to displace our ally two squares diagonally up to the left, forcing the Dire Ape to provoke if it wants to reach them. Then we eat an AoO as we use the rest of our movement to retreat and leave the Dire Ape without anything within full-attack distance. After that, same routine as in Round 2.

Standard + Swift + AoO: [0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] + 0.95[0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] + [0.95*(31.5*1.05+7)] = 112.3 DPR

***

Contest DPR: 87.6

This build is pretty much just the combined efforts of Slim Jim, Cellion and MrCharisma. Accelerated Drinker with a reach weapon, an Id Rager level and Mutagen, and of course Occultist for Legacy Weapon.


It feels as if the contributions have slowed down a bit. I'm thinking of entering the next phase, which would be character level five against an Emperor Cobra (AC 18, CMD 23, Reach 10).

Changes to the rules:

No consumables over spell level 1.
You may have one additional ongoing buff before the encounter starts, with a duration of 1 minute/level or higher. But it must have at least a 2 minute duration.


I just finished putting this together for the previous entry. I had built others, but saw no reason to post them since they weren't as good as what I'd previously done. This was the only one I came up with that was competitive with my previous build.

Double Archer

Stats: Strength 16 Dexterity 18 Constitution 10 Intelligence 10 Wisdom 10 Charisma 10
Race: Half-elf
Racial Traits: Ancestral Arms, Thinblood Resilience
Traits: Adopted[Kasatha]->Covered Sniper, Deadeye Bowman
Class: Fighter(2), Monk(1)
Archetype(s): Eldritch Guardian(Fighter), Monk(Zen Archer)
Familiar: Wallaby
Familiar Stats: Str 8, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 4
F. Archetype: Mauler
Feats: Dedicated Adversary[Dire Ape][c](1st) Rapid Shot[c](3rd)
Bonus Feats: Exotic WP [Hornbow, orc][c](1st), Perfect Strike[c](3rd), Point Blank Shot[c](3rd)
Wealth: 2662 / 3000
Gear: Medium Sized MW Orc hornbow(+3)[730gp], Small Sized MW Orc Hornbow(+0)[430], 40 Arrows(2gp), Potion of Heroismx2(1500)
Attack Bonus: Character: +3 (BAB) +4 (Dex) +1(PBS) +2 (DA) -2 (RS) +1 (MW) +1(CS) = +10 (80%)
Wallaby: +2 (BAB) +2 (Dex) +1(PBS) +2 (DA) -2 (RS) +1 (MW)+1(size) = +7 (70%)
Fight Sequence: Prebuff: Familiar activates Battleform and carries orc hornbow #2 and quiver of arrows.
Character and familiar each drink a potion of heroism. Familiar Stands Next to the character.
Round 1: Character takes a 5 foot step backward behind the familiar (giving soft cover), Then uses Flurry (2 attacks at +12(90%) for 2d6+3(str)+1(PBS)+2(DA)+2(Hrsm)= 15x2 dmg. Then the familiar does rapid shot (2 attacks at +10(80%) 1d8+0(str)+1(PBS)+2(DA)+2(Hrsm)= 9x2 dmg. Total Damage = 30*.90+18*.8 = 41.4
Round 2: Same as Round 1 Total Damage = 41.4
Round 3: Character takes a 5 foot step backward behind the familiar (giving soft cover), Then uses Flurry (2 attacks at +10(80%) for 2d6+3(str)+1(PBS)+2(DA)= 13x2 dmg. Then the familiar does a rapid shot (2 attacks at +3(45%) 1d8+0(str)+1(PBS)+2(DA)= 7x2 dmg. Total Damage = 26*.80+14*.45 = 27.1

Total Damage across all 3 rounds is 109.9 so avg DPR is 36.63


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Wonderstell wrote:
(...) Urban Id Rager (Kindness) 1 (...)

Note that Kindness is not one of the available emotional focuses for Id Rager. You must pick from : anger, dedication, despair, fear, hatred, jealousy, remorse, or zeal.

Friendly Switch is incredible. Surprised I've never across the feat until now. Forcing the Ape to trigger AoOs for additional full BAB attacks is probably the right strategy for this one.


Against animals, specifically, if we have such foretold knowledge that we can take Dedicated Adversary "that guy" in preparation...

I would either acquire poison use, or pay for it...

Tongue Twist poison on arrows or bolts.

Take the Killer trait, have a x4-crit-pick, and take the Throat Slicer feat.

Shoot it until it is unconscious, then coup de grace...

There are plenty of different builds/ways to repeatedly pull this off by level 5 against the cobras.

If you want to test a single level 5 PC against a single CR5 opponent in the Grand Olympiad of low-level Damage Per Round, then the contender is the common Troll.

This cuts out a lot of the shenanigans and gets down to business.

Beat a troll, mono e mono, using the original Dire Ape positioning.


I'm not sure how to do all the math, but I have a possible build.

Half-Orc with alternate racial trait Toothy. +2 into Str for 18 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 9 Int, 10 Wis, 7 Cha.

Traits:
Axe To Grind: +1 trait bonus on damage against foes who are threatened by only you.
Brute Orc: Whenever you score a critical threat, you add (but not multiply, in the case of a confirmed critical hit) an amount of damage equal to your weapon’s critical modifier.

Classes:
2 levels of Feral Champion Warpriest
One level of Shifter using alternate natural attack rules - Stag for Gore and Hoof.

Feats:
Weapon Focus Hoof (assuming archetype can make sacred weapons as vanilla warpriest)
Toughness

Weapons:
2x claws, 2 hoofs, bite, and gore. All at 1d6 base damage, all but hoofs at full BAB. Hoofs also have +1 Atk and Dam due to feat.

Equipment: +1 Chainmail, 1850 gold left.


Heather 540 wrote:

I'm not sure how to do all the math, but I have a possible build.

Half-Orc with alternate racial trait Toothy. +2 into Str for 18 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 9 Int, 10 Wis, 7 Cha.

Traits:
Axe To Grind: +1 trait bonus on damage against foes who are threatened by only you.
Brute Orc: Whenever you score a critical threat, you add (but not multiply, in the case of a confirmed critical hit) an amount of damage equal to your weapon’s critical modifier.

Classes:
2 levels of Feral Champion Warpriest
One level of Shifter using alternate natural attack rules - Stag for Gore and Hoof.

Feats:
Weapon Focus Hoof (assuming archetype can make sacred weapons as vanilla warpriest)
Toughness

Weapons:
2x claws, 2 hoofs, bite, and gore. All at 1d6 base damage, all but hoofs at full BAB. Hoofs also have +1 Atk and Dam due to feat.

Equipment: +1 Chainmail, 1850 gold left.

If this level 3 player was to continue, theoretically playing into a campaign past this encounter, right now you have:

BAB +2
BASE SAVES +5/+2/+3

If you were level 5, where does this particular character go for the CR5 Cobra or a Troll?


Well, the WBL at level 5 is 10500. He can afford an Amulet of Might Fists and put Flaming on it. That would help with a Troll's regeneration. Staying with Warpriest, he'd be able to cast a single second level spell per day. Thought there don't seem to be too many directly attacking spells on the spell list. And not many 10 minute buffs, either.


Heather 540 wrote:
Half-Orc with alternate racial trait Toothy. +2 into Str for 18 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 9 Int, 10 Wis, 7 Cha.

You can't cast spells (except Orisons) with a WIS score that low.

Maybe drop CON to 15 and up your WIS? Or just give in and dump INT?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Cellion wrote:
Wonderstell wrote:
(...) Urban Id Rager (Kindness) 1 (...)
Note that Kindness is not one of the available emotional focuses for Id Rager. You must pick from : anger, dedication, despair, fear, hatred, jealousy, remorse, or zeal.

To every rule there's an exception. Check out the description of kindness from archives of nethys.

Kindness wrote:
In addition, a bloodrager with the id rager archetype can select kindness as his emotional focus.

***

Cellion wrote:
Friendly Switch is incredible. Surprised I've never across the feat until now. Forcing the Ape to trigger AoOs for additional full BAB attacks is probably the right strategy for this one.

It's one of my favorite feats. It's just so much better than the Swap Places teamwork feat since Friendly Switch requires no action and doesn't penalize your ally in any way.

***

LordKailas wrote:
Then the familiar does rapid shot (2 attacks at +10(80%) 1d8+0(str)

Slight nitpick, but why would the familiar not deal 2d6 dmg? If you have a small Hornbow and the familiar enlarges itself, you just need a quiver of medium sized arrows to deal 2d6 dmg.

If the familiar can enlarge itself anywho, why not just buy it a medium sized Hornbow?

***

VoodistMonk wrote:
Shoot it until it is unconscious, then coup de grace...

If you want to share such a build you're welcome to do so. But your DPR will just be the auto-crit from a Coup de Grace attempt, so it won't really matter for the contest.

I did consider the Troll but it has lower than average AC of only 16 compared to the Emperor Cobra's 18.


Wonderstell wrote:


LordKailas wrote:
Then the familiar does rapid shot (2 attacks at +10(80%) 1d8+0(str)

Slight nitpick, but why would the familiar not deal 2d6 dmg? If you have a small Hornbow and the familiar enlarges itself, you just need a quiver of medium sized arrows to deal 2d6 dmg.

If the familiar can enlarge itself anywho, why not just buy it a medium sized Hornbow?

That was my original build out. However, I realized that since only my fighter levels count for the familiar in terms of progression it only gets 2 levels for purposes of determining what abilities it gets. Battleform is gained at level 3. Since mauler basically isn't giving me anything at this point it should probably be swapped out for figment. Unfortunately, by the time I realized it I only had time to edit the post to fix the math.


I like psionics, so I'll do a psionics character for fun and a DPR Olympics legal character later :P This build includes feats from the Dreamscarred Press book Psionics Augmented: Wilder.

Level 3 Human Student Surge Wilder

7 Str
12 Dex
12 Con
12 Int
11 Wis
20 Cha (18+2racial)

HP: 3d8+3 = 16.5 HP (+15 Temp HP)
PP: 11Wilder + 7ChaBonus + 1+1+1CogCrystals = 18 +1+1+1pp
AC: 13
Saves: F2, R2, W3

Traits:
Psigifted (Mind Thrust +1ML)
Reactionary (+2 Initiative)

Feats & Powers:

Level1:
Power Chosen: Mind Thrust
Student Surge Bonus Feat: Psicrystal Affinity
Feat: Overchannel (+1ML for 1d8 dmg to self)
Human Bonus Feat: Biokinetic Feedback (allows Overchannel + Wild Surge, and allows me to take HP damage in lieu of PP damage during Psychic Enervation)

Level2:
Power Chosen: Vigor

Level3:
Feat: Vent Agony (causes Overchannel damage and Wild Surge Psychic Enervation to affect enemy)

Purchases:
x3 Cognizance Crystal 1pp (1,000g each)

I have 3 ML, but I get a +1 ML from Overchannel and a +1ML to Mind Thrust from Psigifted, plus an additional +2ML from Wild Surge, so 7ML total. Dire Ape has a Will Save of +4 so he has a 70% chance to fail his save.

The Math:

7ML = 7d10 Mind Thrust + 1d8 damage Overchannel, DC: 10+5cha+4MTaugment = 19DC

(.70)[(7*5.5)+(4.5)] = 30.1 dpr
When I do hit, it's: 7*5.5 = 38.5 + 4.5 = 43 avg dmg.

Conclusion:

I can manifest an Overchanneled Wild Surged Mind Thrust for 3pp, so exactly 6 times per day because I have 18pp. At 30.1 dpr (actual 43 dmg), that kills the dire ape with a single manifest of Mind Thrust each round of both encounters (total 6 times) I can use the 1 pp from an individual Cog Crystal and then Wild Surge +2 to manifest Vigor up to 3 times per day for a 15 Temp HP buff for 1min/lvl that lasts 3 mins. So if I buff Vigor before each encounter and manifest Mind Thrust to kill each ape, after both encounters I would still have 1pp remaining in one of my Cog Crystals.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

(Thats what I get for not reading the fine print on the Kindness emotional focus. Always an exception.)

Building off my earlier concept here, here's one for 5th level:

Me and My Mammoth: A Build
Vivisectionist Alchemist 2 / Id Rager (anger) 1 / Adaptive Shifter 1 / Sohei Monk 1.
Human for extra feat

BAB +3
STRmod +11 (+4 base, +2 alchemy, +2 rage morale, +1 untyped, +1 size, +1 enhance)

Buffs: Mutagen 20 mins (w/ feral mutagen discovery for claw/claw/bite), Enlarge person extract 2 mins.
Feats (starred feats are bonus feats): Power Attack*, Spirit Oni Master, Dedicated Adversary (Emperor Cobras), Mounted Skirmisher*, Extra Discovery (Infusion), Friendly Switch.
Equipment: Combat Trained Mammoth (2.25kgp), Belt of Giant Strength +2 (4kgp), ???

The concept here is to use the Sohei Monk's completely busted ability to pick up any mounted combat feat as a bonus feat to pick up Mounted Skirmisher. This allows for full attacking if the mount moves up to one move action's distance. The mount here is a combat trained mammoth, a CR10 creature that costs only 2.25k gp. It doesn't take much more to be able to nail the DC10 ride check to fight with a combat trained mount, letting yourself get your attacks while your mammoth is doing its own.

As before, Id Rager and Dedicated Adversary top up our accuracy and damage. There's probably better synergies to be had with the mount and better ways to use feats for more natural attacks. This is a basic first pass.

Mammoth Attack Line: gore +19 (2d6+11), slam +19 (1d8+11), 2 stomps +17 (2d6+5)
PC Attack Line: bite +14 (2d6+14 x2), claw +14 (d8+14 x2), claw +14 (d8+14 x2), gore +14 (d6+14 x2), tail slap +9 (d6+8 x2)

Combat:
Round 1:
Since we're going first, the cobra should be flatfooted, so vivisectionist sneak attack damage could be applied and the cobra's AC is 16. Swift action Stretching Form to increase our reach 5ft via Adaptive Shifter, Bloodrage as free, Fight w/ combat trained mount as free, Mammoth moves and readies a gore once the cobra is in range (18.8 dmg), PC full attacks (103.6 dmg). PC has 15ft reach, so cobra provokes on the way in, eating a bite (19.6 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 1: 142.0 DPR

Round 2:
Sit and full attack with both mount (58.9 dmg) and PC (78.2 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 2: 137.1 DPR

Round 3:
Move to displace ally with mount, then back up enough to get the AoOs like in Round 1. Math works out the same as round 1, but without the sneak attack damage and vs. non-flatfooted cobra AC. Mammoth readies gore (18.8 dmg), PC full attacks (78.2 dmg). PC has 15ft reach, so cobra provokes on the way in, eating a bite (19.6 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 3: 116.6 DPR
---
TOTAL DPR: 131.9


@Cellion: Anyone can make a full attack while mounted if the mount moves up to one move action. Mounted skirmisher lets you do so if the mount moves further than that.


It seems a waste to use a creature with 30' climb speed and 30' swim speed as a land-bound mook. Also by level 5 you should have some basic ability to handle other environments. Hence my level 5 challenge, the all-terrain version (Level 5A).

Your enemy is a emperor cobra as with Wonderstell's level 5 challenge. Same rules except you'll want a +4 Fort save (the jungle's not safe) to qualify.

Round 1:
The cobra is 30' immediately above you in the jungle. There's enough leaves, branches, insects & stuff in the way to give concealment (20% miss chance & safety from AoOs) unless you're adjacent or have greensight. It will move down to attack you using its reach on its action. DC 15 to climb up if you're so inclined.

Round 2:
There are 3 cobras menacing you. If you can damage more than one the damage is added together and totalled for this round. Initial positions are
O.O.O.O.O.O.D.D.D
O.A.A.O.A.A.D.D.D
O.A.A.O.A.A.D.D.D
O.O.O.O.O.D.D.D.D
O.A.A.O.Y.D.D.D.D
O.A.A.O.O.D.D.D.D
O.O.O.O.O.D.D.D.D

D's are difficult terrain, O's are open terrain, A's represent the cobras, Y is you.

Round 3:
There's a lake with a snake in it and your friend jumped in to take it on. Feel free to join them.

O.O.O.w.w.w.w.w.w
O.O.Y.w.w.w.w.w.w
O.w.w.w.w.W.W.w.w
O.w.w.w.W.F.W.w.w
O.w.w.w.W.W.W.w.w
O.w.w.W.W.W.A.A.w
O.w.w.w.W.W.A.A.w
O.O.O.w.W.W.W.W.w

O's are open terrain, F's the friend, Y is you, w is 5' deep water, W is 10' deep water, A is the snake (entirely submerged in 10' deep water).


avr wrote:
@Cellion: Anyone can make a full attack while mounted if the mount moves up to one move action. Mounted skirmisher lets you do so if the mount moves further than that.

you're thinking of ranged attacks

Combat while Mounted wrote:
If your mount moves more than 5 feet, you can only make a single melee attack. Essentially, you have to wait until the mount gets to your enemy before attacking, so you can’t make a full attack. Even at your mount’s full speed, you don’t take any penalty on melee attacks while mounted
Combat while Mounted wrote:
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.


@avr

The three cobras scenario confuses me with the underlying principles of this thread.

As a single level 5 character, ALONE, finding myself menaced by THREE emperor cobras... I withdraw.

Oh brave Sir Robin, he bravely runs away!

Damage per round is zero when dead.

An alive dog is capable of more than a dead lion...


Really? Because looking at the actual numbers of the cobra there I thought 'a lot of these won't just win, they'll slaughter the poor snakes'. The entries in this thread are unlikely to include the weaker level 5 characters. I wanted to include one scenario where multiple target offence could matter too. You think I should use three apes for round 2 there VM?

& yes brain fart there LK, Cellion, my bad.


Cellion wrote:
Me and My Mammoth: A Build

Round 1 and Round 3 are a bit problematic.

The Cobra has 10 ft reach so if you stay 15 ft away and full-attack the Cobra can simply 5-foot step within range at its turn, avoiding any AoO.
I'd also say that getting the Mammoth to move and stop exactly outside of the Cobra's reach to ready an attack is a more complicated maneuver than the DC 10 Ride action would allow. It would probably try to charge unless you make one or two Handle Animal checks to tell it otherwise.

Handle Animal wrote:

Action

Varies. Handling an animal is a move action, while “pushing” an animal is a full-round action. (A druid or ranger can handle her animal companion as a free action or push it as a move action.)

===

@avr

Great initiative. I'll see if I can whip something up.


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hmm good points, how about this then to remove the reliance on complicated mount positioning/actions?

See Previous Post for what this build is based on
Replacements shown with a ->
Feats: Friendly Switch -> Racial Heritage (Frost Giant), Extra Discovery -> Born of Frost
Gear: Adding Amulet of Mighty Fists (Bane: Animals) for 4k. This should put total gear cost just under the budget for a 5th level character.
Class Levels: Adaptive Shifter 1 -> Dragonblood Shifter 1

Born of Frost grants 1d6 bonus cold damage on all the PC's natural attacks, bane (animals) on an amulet of mighty fists is a cheap pickup that grants a pile of damage and more accuracy, and Dragonblood Shifter's alternate natural attacks option lets us pick up a tail attack and wing attack instead of the single tail attack from adaptive shifter.

Attack lines are now:
Mammoth Attack Line: gore +19 (2d6+11), slam +19 (1d8+11), 2 stomps +17 (2d6+5)
PC Attack Line: bite +16 (2d6+17 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6), claw +16 (d8+17 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6), claw +16 (d8+17 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6), gore +16 (d6+17 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6), tail slap +11 (d6+11 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6), wing +11 (d6+11 x2 +1d6 cold +2d6)

Combat:
Round 1:
Since we're going first, the cobra should be flatfooted, so vivisectionist sneak attack damage could be applied. Bloodrage as free, Fight w/ combat trained mount as free, Mammoth moves and gores the cobra (18.8 dmg), PC full attacks (185.4 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 1: 204.2 DPR

Round 2:
Sit and full attack with both mount (58.9 dmg) and PC (161.7 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 2: 220.6 DPR

Round 3:
Same thing as round 1, just move in and attack. Math works out the same as round 1, but without the sneak attack damage. Mammoth attacks with gore (18.8 dmg), PC full attacks (161.7 dmg).

TOTAL ROUND 3: 180.5 DPR
---
TOTAL DPR: 201.8


What follows is a level 5 revision of my Rat Knight build.

Flurry Knight
Stats: (20 PB) Value Cost
Strength 20 17
Dexterity 12 2
Constitution 10 0
Intelligence 10 0
Wisdom 12 1
Charisma 10 0
Race: Human
Racial Trait: Eye for Quality (int)
Traits: Dirty Fighter, Ancestral Weapon(cold iron)
Class: Cavalier(1), Monk(1), Hunter(3)
Ability Score Increase: Wis +1
Archetype(s): Sohei(monk), First Mother’s Fang(Cavalier)
Feats: Power Attack(1st), Dedicated Adversary[Emperor Cobra](3rd), Escape Route(5th)
Bonus Feats: Combat Expertise(1st), Pack Flanking(1st), Exotic Weapon Prof[Seven Branch Sword](1st), Exotic Weapon Prof[???](1st), Mounted Skirmisher(2nd), Outflank(4th), Precise Strike(5th),
Wealth: 8,601 / 10,500
Gear: +1 animal bane cold iron Seven Branch Sword(8,000), whet stone(2cp), wildblood x 6(600gp), whet bone(1 sp)
Mount: Riding Constrictor
Snake Stats: Str 24(26), Dex 16, Con 17, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 2; (with Aspect of Bull)
Snake Feats: Dirty Fighting, Armor Prof(Light), Improved Grapple
Attack Bonus: Character: +4(bab) +6(str) +4(flnk) -2(flry) +1(AWp)+3(bane)-2(PA)+2(DA)=+16 of +16
Mount(Attack): +3(bab) +8(str)+4(Flnk) =+15 of +16
Mount(CMB-Grapple): +3(bab) +8(str) +4(Grb)+1(Size)+2(IG)+4(Flnk) =+22 of +22

Fight Sequence: Prep: both drink a wild blood concoction. Cast Lead Blades
Combat: Have mount move up to and attack enemy,
Bite(+15[90%]) for 1d4(wp)+12(str)+1d6(PS)+1(WhtB)+2(WBld)=21*[95%]= 19.95 dmg, w/ free grapple at (+22[95%]) for 1d4(const)+12(str) +2(WBld)=16.5*[95%]= 15.67 dmg

Character swift action to activate Aspect of Bull for self, then flurrys (+16[95%) for 2d8(wp)+6(str)+1(DF)+1d6(PS)+2(WBld)+2(DA)+6(PA)+3(bane)+2d6(bane) +0.5(WhtS) (80 total avg) = 80*[.95%] = 76

Total = 111.62 DPR

The above sequence is the same in all 3 scenarios as I can simply move up to the enemy without provoking and attack.

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