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Hey folks!
Our sneak peek of the Pathfinder 2E Gamemastery Guide is tomorrow at 4 p.m. Pacific! Designer Logan Bonner and Editor Leo Glass will be sitting with you folks this Pathfinder Friday to showcase what they've been working on for the Gamemastery Guide.
They have a lot to talk about. Including the process of designing a book such as this. But I wanted to open a thread to allow folks to ask some initial questions. I can't guarantee that we can answer all of them. But I personally love to keep a tally of these questions so we know how to approach certain subjects in the future.
Once more you will find us LIVE on 9/6/2019 at 4 p.m. Pacific on the official twitch page: https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo
Hope to see you all there!
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What kind of downtime activities will be in it?
How are you seeing the creation of custom monsters with special abilities? Is there guidance in creating level appropriate actions?
I'm quite interested in the idea of removing +level from proficiency, as I play and run D&D 5e and I quite like the bounded accuracy for some (but not all) styles of games. It's quite easy to do in theory, as you can subtract monster levels from their bonuses and get some reasonable numbers. In practice, however, it really messes up how critical successes and failures work, as you now have about the same chance to critically succeed or fail against everything whereas it makes far more sense for critical chances to still scale with level.
So would the optional subsystem take that into account as well?
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Are there rules for removing alignment from games in the GMG? If so, how do those rules work with spells, abilities and other things that directly interact with alignment in a mechanical level?
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I'm quite interested in the idea of removing +level from proficiency, as I play and run D&D 5e and I quite like the bounded accuracy for some (but not all) styles of games. It's quite easy to do in theory, as you can subtract monster levels from their bonuses and get some reasonable numbers. In practice, however, it really messes up how critical successes and failures work, as you now have about the same chance to critically succeed or fail against everything whereas it makes far more sense for critical chances to still scale with level.
So would the optional subsystem take that into account as well?
To piggyback on that, will there be guidelines on balancing encounters when you remove level from proficiency?
Will there be options to tinker with the game to get the style of campaign we want -- say, a low-magic campaign? Or removing +X magic items?
Can we have some guidelines on how to customize monsters? "Adding class levels", or adding feats, or adding monster abilities? I want to surprise my players -- a troll is not always a troll is not always a troll...
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What might we expect in terms of kingdom building, running our own businesses, or commanding mass armies?
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Are there rules for removing alignment from games in the GMG? If so, how do those rules work with spells, abilities and other things that directly interact with alignment in a mechanical level?
I've been doing without alignment in my PF1e Eberron and Dark Sun games for years without a hitch, by simply counting all non-outsider creatures as true neutral for all alignment effects. Outsiders have alignments, but I use the weapon rune names for them instead, so it doesn't really have as much of a moral implication. Most celestials are still benevolent, but saying they're "holy" rather than "good" allows a bit more leeway in their actions. And of course, allows for celestials to act as villains without having to make up an excuse.
Although I do wonder if there's a codified variant in the GMG. It would be really useful to be able to point to an official section of the rules.
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Will there be more details about what minions do during downtime? Or exploration mode?
I think the big thing I want to know about is, for variants without +Level added to things, what is an appropriate thing to give PCs to compensate them for the fact that without adding level to accuracy, all of your defenses, and the skills you care about... you really don't get very much when you level.
So how do we account for this? Double feats maybe?
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Will there be additional guidance and examples on how to apply the stealth, perception, detection, ready action, and initiative rules (moving from exploration to encounter mode) in situations such as an ambush, breaking down a door, etc.? These rules are scattered all over the CRB and there aren't many examples on how to apply them to common situations.
I think the big thing I want to know about is, for variants without +Level added to things, what is an appropriate thing to give PCs to compensate them for the fact that without adding level to accuracy, all of your defenses, and the skills you care about... you really don't get very much when you level.
So how do we account for this? Double feats maybe?
More ability score increases might also work.
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My question-
I'm really interested in using proficiency gating beyond untrained/trained. This already exists in terms of things like "there are expert locks, people without expert thievery cannot attempt to pick them", but is there any guidance on extending this to all skills? Can I have a diplomacy check which requires master proficiency to attempt?
My question-
I'm really interested in using proficiency gating beyond untrained/trained. This already exists in terms of things like "there are expert locks, people without expert thievery cannot attempt to pick them", but is there any guidance on extending this to all skills? Can I have a diplomacy check which requires master proficiency to attempt?
This is standard part of the Minimum Proficiency rules:
Sometimes succeeding at a particular task requires a character to have a specific proficiency rank in addition to a success on the check. Locks and traps often require a certain proficiency rank to successfully use the Pick a Lock or Disable a Device actions of Thievery. A character whose proficiency rank is lower than what’s listed can attempt the check, but they can’t succeed. You can apply similar minimum proficiencies to other tasks. You might decide, for example, that a particular arcane theorem requires training in Arcana to understand. An untrained barbarian can’t succeed at the check, but she can still attempt it if she wants-after all, she needs to have a chance to critically fail and get erroneous information!
(Technically it only lists trained here, but it is in a paragraph comparing it to the Thievery proficiency gates which can be Expert-Legendary - I think it's safe to assume the system doesn't distinguish between those tasks based on that.)
Will there be guidelines for building gods for use by clerics and paladins? Like, the number of domains, and etc.
WILL IT HAVE MAGIC ITEMS?
I NEED MY GLOVES OF SHAPING BACK ASAP!
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In PF1, I felt there were a lot of "unspoken rules" that a new GM might not know about if they didn't comb through message boards or see the small print in each book (such as certain magic items being expected for players for the math to work out or that player characters for APs were expected to be built with 15 point buy). With new emphasis on empowering GMs, can we expect more transparency in the base expectations of the game for the smoothest play experience? A Game Mastery Guide seems like it would be a good place for this.
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Will there be rules for towns and cities? There is a very small mention of it in the core rulebook, mentioning settlement levels.
What will this interact with? Just task levels, or stuff like spellcasting, item level, etc?
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I would love to see on this book..
- rules for monsters as PCs
- rules for lowering the importance of magic items, something like the Automatic Bonus Progression from PF Unchained.
- Some official rules to return a bit of the lose power for magic.
- A bit more details on rituals; price, how many to give…
Finally, I know is not for this book, but, is there any idea when will be the non-Good champions? I would really need them for some campaigns.
Add me to the list of people interested in stronghold, kingdom, business rules and et cetera. The Core rulebook was very focused on exploration and encounter mode, I'm really hoping for some meat to go with downtime mode.
Also things like retainers, hirelings, et cetera. Right now I'm cribbing from PF1 rules for this, but it's a bit of a bad fit for obvious reasons. Obviously leadership (as we knew it) went away and while Age of Ashes has some stronghold stuff, it seems (from first glance) to be very specific towards that campaign.
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Hey folks!
Our sneak peek of the Pathfinder 2E Gamemastery Guide is tomorrow at 4 p.m. Pacific! Designer Logan Bonner and Editor Leo Glass will be sitting with you folks this Pathfinder Friday to showcase what they've been working on for the Gamemastery Guide...
Will there be rules for creating NPC characters that do not have a traditional class such as Fighter, Cleric, or Rogue? Something like Commoner, Expert, Aristocrat... but not terrible?
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I really hope the book will include some discussion on how to design and use skills in encounters (combat and non-combat) that utilize 4 tiers of success to make for more interesting situations than a. The party climbs the wall, or b. the party doesn't climb the wall.
It would be awesome for y'all to discuss the complexities of transitioning as a GM from PF1 to PF2 in terms of designing adventures for your players beyond combat.
How much of the book is dedicated to GM advice and how much is dedicated to optional rules.
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I am interested mostly in NPCs. How to make them. How to convert them. And I'd like to have several pre-made. Can't wait for an NPC codex for PF2.
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How much of the book is dedicated to GM advice and how much is dedicated to optional rules.
That is a really good, but simple question I really hope they cover.
I'm also interested in the Monster Creation rules/guidelines, which I believe were scheduled to come out in it. Are there any really simple things you can spoiler on them quickly that might help some of us right away.
Are there rules to help better deal with character concepts that are more potentially minion-centric, be it summoners, characters with trained animals, or the classic lieutenant who has some soldiers they are responsible for ordering around [since that actually is a very classic integral story trope for instance]. The current rules doesn't officially really allow for minions to have their own mind or instincts.
Are you including any optional rules potentially like Starfinder's Stamina system, to make it so that when characters get badly injured it takes more time and resources to get them back up to full, compared to just partially injured.
I really have very little interest in all the talk of completely removing level from things, but originally I would have at least been interested in contemplating dropping down to 1/2 level for things, so I hope whatever optional rules talk about adjusting that mechanic aren't just all or nothing discussions. Can you verify these will be included, and they won't just be talk of completely reducing, but potentially discussion lowing the ratio of advancement per level.
Will there be listed any of the more strict goalposts for classes/items/feats/ancestries. Things like don't grant expert in normal skills before 2nd level. Don't grant more than 1/2 level in resistance as a constant ability. I don't know, things like that that the developers planned in because they felt it was an important guidepost other's shouldn't pass without intentional thought.
I'm hoping it has guidelines for building sensible Domains for clerics and Bloodlines for Sorcerer's and such. Are there recommendations for building custom ancestries/heritages?
Are there going to be any rules in it that would be considered core rules that would be relevant for PFS and such? Or will it all be material for the GM, and options to customize your game to your local interests and preferences of your participants?
How much of the book is dedicated to GM advice and how much is dedicated to optional rules.
Yes, this: past that any and all possible info they can give on the optional rules. At the very least, I'd love to get a general overview of optional rule section and what rules are in it.
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I missed most of it. Anybody have a summary?
This was an awesome session! The GMG looks like it is going to be pretty awesome. It almost feels like a cross between the old GMG and Unchained, with a dash of ultimate campaign. Looking forward to it.
Out of interest we’re any questions from this thread answered?
A friend who watched mentioned “deep backgrounds?”
A friend who watched mentioned “deep backgrounds?”Seems to be some sort of customizable "let's go through step by step what happened in your background" sort of thing some rpg systems have
Sounds fantastic.
Out of interest we’re any questions from this thread answered?
Yes, as was mentioned above. Additionally, I’d say about 75% of the show was answering questions from both forum and Twitch chat.
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I missed most of it. Anybody have a summary?
Topics that will be covered (not an exhaustive list, because my memory is going):
*Chapter 1: GM advice - most of the advice will be here, the rest will be options and tools to modify and play the game*Managing initiative
*Running a game for "special circumstances" such as PFS, fewer players
*Some talk about time sensitive skill checks
*Structuring campaign
*Drawing maps
*Adjucating rules
*Dealing with problems in games
*Running exploration
Other topics that will be included:
*NPC building - quite. Bit of time was spent here, so I'll elaborate. Basically it'll be like the unchained rules, but a little more granular. They also specifically mentioned that NPCs can be built so that a baker might be a -1 combat encounter, but a level 5 baking encounter if for some reason your PCs are facing off against him in "Last Wall Bake Off".
*NPC gallery. Many NPCs have combat options that mirror their profession, such as a surgeon weilding a scalpel and having the ability "medical malparactice"
*NPC templates to modify the gallery NPC
*Removing +level (both in and out of combat)
*Building traps/hazards. Also, new traps, hazards, and haunts will be included.
*Building magic items (best practices, judging level, item quirks)
*Building relics, such as we saw in the War for the Crown AP
*Intelligent items
*Downtime activities - including creating new ones
*Removing, changing, augmenting alignment
*Artifacts
*Vehicles (sort of based on starfinder's rules, including the pricing on them), vehicular combat
*Victory point subsystems (think chases)
*Dual-classing (gestalt classes)
*Modyfing the number of feats for players (more or less class feats per character, free archetypes, etc)
*Running Duels
*Creating planes
*Deep backgrounds
*Level 0 characters. AB is official!
*Starfinder style Stamina system
*Afflictions
*Skill points
*Ability point buy
*Getting rid of magic items
*Art objects
*Reputation/Leadership
*Rarity
Not included (usually due to room)
*Kingdom building
*large of amount of advice on setting D.C.'s
*gloves of shaping, desk of many things
*post-20 level challenges
*advise specifically on switching feats between classes
*puzzles
*creating new feats, class features, spells
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Out of interest we’re any questions from this thread answered?At least a handful were.
Niceto see. Thanks :)
And wow. This GMG sounds far superior to PF1’s version!
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Deep Backgrounds sounds fantastic!
Was anything mentioned regarding creature creation?
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NPC and Monster creation is the same thing now, so yes.
Well, you have the option of building an NPC using PC rules, and it sounds like there will be a bit of advice there, but the assumption is you’ll use monster rules.
Also, to clarify on this point:
post-20 level challenges
There will be level 20+ monsters and hazards, but playing the game past level 20 isn’t really a topic.
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NPC and Monster creation is the same thing now, so yes.
Well, you have the option of building an NPC using PC rules, and it sounds like there will be a bit of advice there, but the assumption is you’ll use monster rules.
Also, to clarify on this point:
post-20 level challengesThere will be level 20+ monsters and hazards, but playing the game past level 20 isn’t really a topic.
They also specifically mentioned that Lvl 25 creatures were not *supposed* to be beatable without some extra help from OP Artifacts or a high number of high level NPCs to help, or other special divine boon or something like that.
Wow. So I now wonder if all the kingdom building rules will be only in the Kingmaker AP that should come out late 2020.
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I wonder if this means we'll still be seeing monsters in the 21-30 range like in PF1E, or if they are going to trim it down to 25 or simply ax higher-level threats entirely.
Treerazer in the Bestiary is a level 25, and he's a demon lord (grants spells and everything). I'm not sure there's going to be anything you're ever going to be supposed to fight that's tougher than a demon lord.