Theories about Goblin Inclusion

[Wermut]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Wermut wrote:

But thats the whole point of the messageboard. Discussing things one only knows a part of. You could go through all the threads discussing released information and post "We will see how that works, regarding possible mechanics/information not released yet. /thread".

I actually do precisely this when people are getting really angry or unpleasant about something that only might be true. Reminding people that they may be worrying over nothing is useful when it's actually the case. I would also absolutely suggest that we not talk about other stuff that's already been discussed to death. Beating a dead horse seldom has useful results.

Speculation can be fun and interesting, and if we were just floating various theories about what explanation Paizo would come up with for Goblin PCs, I'd be totally on board. Indeed, I was on board when such discussions occurred. About seven weeks ago.

But at this point, after every point has been discussed several times already, and no new information has been released, that's not what these threads on Goblins wind up doing any more (if they ever did). They become a seemingly very angry argument about whether Paizo should even have done this in the first place. One where we lack the information to clearly even argue about what's really going on, only what we assume to be going on.

In short, having harsh arguments is not usually productive, and even when it is, all the arguments on this topic already happened. At least twice. Almost two months ago. Rehashing them is not useful.

Wermut wrote:

If someone would be disinclined to discuss a certain topic, one could always ignore it? Or are there other reasons to try to shutdown such a discussion?

I like it when the message boards are a nice, relatively civil, place where we can have discussions of new information that hasn't already been discussed to death 80 times. These threads do not, at this point, aid in making that the case. Or provide much of anything else productive.

While I certainly haven't partaken in all those discussions, I also have read some discussions about Goblins. I still do, maybe because I'd like to read an actual theory how goblins could be redeemed, that factors in all known problems. Of course I'd read such a theory as a critic, looking for problems, but thats my personal stance on the topic. So there is still "value", at least for me.

And you have to admit, the goblin thing isn't nearly so bad as the p a l a d i n thing (pronounce every key separately, intelligence is usually their dumpstat).

Still, others might be in a position where they haven't had their chance to "visualize" the topic. So I would always the topic to be relevant. PF2 also aims to widen the playerbase.

[Deadmanwalking]

Wermut wrote:

While I certainly haven't partaken in all those discussions, I also have read some discussions about Goblins. I still do, maybe because I'd like to read an actual theory how goblins could be redeemed, that factors in all known problems. Of course I'd read such a theory as a critic, looking for problems, but thats my personal stance on the topic. So there is still "value", at least for me.

The thing about that is that the only one that really matters is the one Paizo uses, and I'd bet any amount of money they've already decided on it, so discussion here just doesn't seem productive until we know what it is.

Wermut wrote:

And you have to admit, the goblin thing isn't nearly so bad as the p a l a d i n thing (pronounce every key separately, intelligence is usually their dumpstat).

This is true. If someone brings one of those threads back in 6 weeks I will also say 'Can we please not?'

Wermut wrote:

Still, others might be in a position where they haven't had their chance to "visualize" the topic. So I would always the topic to be relevant. PF2 also aims to widen the playerbase.

I'm not against reading old threads. Having the same discussion again just doesn't seem helpful.

[Weather Report]

Ryan Freire wrote:

They're basically adding kender to pathfinder and kender are trash.

Depends on the kender, the one I had back in the day was more of an NPC, a spacefaring, plane-hopping, gunslinging, adventure seeker, not pilfering the parties possessions and such. The problem was some players of the race, and the almost urban legend that has built up around them, few have probably had any actual experience with the race.

[Neriathale]

Just as a thought experiment on the 'how does the world change' question. I'm working with the following assumptions about Pathfinder campaigns set on Golarion.

1. Most people, when they start a campaign (AP or homebrew plot) create completely new characters for it.

2. The events of the previously played campaign do not have a major impact on the current campaign, and the new PCs don't know the old PCs.

3. When 2e comes out people will start a new campaign rather than converting their 1e ones across.

If all of that is correct, then each campaign exists in its own slightly different timestream/alternate reality/whatever you want to call it. It just so happens that future campaigns will take place in timestreams where goblins (or at least some goblins) are better socialised.

[Seisho]

Neriathale wrote:

Just as a thought experiment on the 'how does the world change' question. I'm working with the following assumptions about Pathfinder campaigns set on Golarion.

1. Most people, when they start a campaign (AP or homebrew plot) create completely new characters for it.

2. The events of the previously played campaign do not have a major impact on the current campaign, and the new PCs don't know the old PCs.

3. When 2e comes out people will start a new campaign rather than converting their 1e ones across.

If all of that is correct, then each campaign exists in its own slightly different timestream/alternate reality/whatever you want to call it. It just so happens that future campaigns will take place in timestreams where goblins (or at least some goblins) are better socialised.

basically what I tried to tell - and if someone doesn't like it they got their timelines where goblins are still a bunch of pyromaniac d***s

[The Raven Black]

Ryan Freire wrote:

I'm honestly not interested in their explanation of why it happens. They'll be banned from my home games and i wont play in games where they're allowed. They're basically adding kender to pathfinder and kender are trash.

The problem always lied in how the Kenders were portrayed and played comforted by how the official rules presented them

I 100% trust Paizo to avoid the latter, which should help rein in the former. Anything after that is a GM or player thing that can happen with any character no matter the ancestry

[gustavo iglesias]

Ryan Freire wrote:

To view them as heroes you have to overlook that they're all NE and one specifically likes to torture small helpless animals to death.

That bolded part is what it is not true, and it's the part that the second edition will probably expand the explanation on.

Only outsiders (and other [Alignment] tagged creatures, like dragons) are bound by their alignment "genetics". Everyone else can be raised in different aligments, if they get themselves surrounded by the proper social communities. Even half-outsiders, like tieflings, can be of any aligment. There are good communities of orcs in Belkzen, who follow Saerenrae, and the orcs of Garund are reportedly non-evil.

[Wermut]

Seisho wrote:

Neriathale wrote:

Just as a thought experiment on the 'how does the world change' question. I'm working with the following assumptions about Pathfinder campaigns set on Golarion.

1. Most people, when they start a campaign (AP or homebrew plot) create completely new characters for it.

2. The events of the previously played campaign do not have a major impact on the current campaign, and the new PCs don't know the old PCs.

3. When 2e comes out people will start a new campaign rather than converting their 1e ones across.

If all of that is correct, then each campaign exists in its own slightly different timestream/alternate reality/whatever you want to call it. It just so happens that future campaigns will take place in timestreams where goblins (or at least some goblins) are better socialised.

basically what I tried to tell - and if someone doesn't like it they got their timelines where goblins are still a bunch of pyromaniac d***s

Glad to on one hand get a point on the other hand how one would deal with. If it weren't wrong of course. The adventure paths and their outcome are afaik canon. Also a world needs a cohesive history or else it won't develope. There is no possibility to ignore canon without leaving the world and then why play in Golarion at all?

It is completly fine to ignore any established world and to make changes for ones own group. It's not a solution though. Because a group of people prefers adventuring in the "official" Golarion. As long as such a group exists it must be attended too, especially with PFS which requires canon/world building above all else.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Here’s an actual theory about goblin inclusion.

We now know that the last 1E AP will be “Tyrant’s Grasp”, a Whispering Tyrant AP.

What if, as part of that AP, the nations of Avistan all join together to fight back the undead hordes, and a bunch of goblins show up to fight on the side of the living?

Helping to save the world from the undead apocalypse would certainly soften their image, and the contact with more civilized allies could explain the cultural shifts producing more heroic goblins.

[Ryan Freire]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Ryan Freire wrote:

To view them as heroes you have to overlook that they're all NE and one specifically likes to torture small helpless animals to death.

That bolded part is what it is not true, and it's the part that the second edition will probably expand the explanation on.

Only outsiders (and other [Alignment] tagged creatures, like dragons) are bound by their alignment "genetics". Everyone else can be raised in different aligments, if they get themselves surrounded by the proper social communities. Even half-outsiders, like tieflings, can be of any aligment. There are good communities of orcs in Belkzen, who follow Saerenrae, and the orcs of Garund are reportedly non-evil.

Dude you quoted out of context. That was in response to the "heros" of we be goblins. They're ALL NE and one specifically likes to torture small animals to death.

[The Sideromancer]

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Here’s an actual theory about goblin inclusion.

We now know that the last 1E AP will be “Tyrant’s Grasp”, a Whispering Tyrant AP.

What if, as part of that AP, the nations of Avistan all join together to fight back the undead hordes, and a bunch of goblins show up to fight on the side of the living?

Helping to save the world from the undead apocalypse would certainly soften their image, and the contact with more civilized allies could explain the cultural shifts producing more heroic goblins.

I read that and thought "I would have preferred the undead getting a redemption arc instead."

[Corrik]

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Here’s an actual theory about goblin inclusion.

We now know that the last 1E AP will be “Tyrant’s Grasp”, a Whispering Tyrant AP.

What if, as part of that AP, the nations of Avistan all join together to fight back the undead hordes, and a bunch of goblins show up to fight on the side of the living?

Helping to save the world from the undead apocalypse would certainly soften their image, and the contact with more civilized allies could explain the cultural shifts producing more heroic goblins.

Then why did no other race get a core promotion? Orc armies not useful enough? Kobolds are too clever and made the dwarfs jealous? Even if only goblins helped, why does that not change the views of the other monsters? I mean, if people were wrong about goblins? Then there is the fact that kobolds, orcs, and others are better suited and better placed to advance in the world. So why do only goblins get the PR upgrade? No matter the answer provided for goblins, it has an impact on the greater story. Which is why simply hot gluing goblins to the old core race line up doesn't work.

[Kalindlara]

Given that orc armies were the Whispering Tyrant's living troops the last time around (and may be this time too), they might not have the same opportunities. And kobolds seem like a perfect fit for "too cowardly to fight en masse, and too weak to make a significant contribution". That said, if the goblin thing changes how the Inner Sea's people see every ancestry's "innate evil", I'd be all for it.

I have my own theories about what happens, based on some things of which I am aware. But until it happens, I'm afraid I can't say for certain either. ^_^

[Malk_Content]

Corrik wrote:

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Here’s an actual theory about goblin inclusion.

We now know that the last 1E AP will be “Tyrant’s Grasp”, a Whispering Tyrant AP.

What if, as part of that AP, the nations of Avistan all join together to fight back the undead hordes, and a bunch of goblins show up to fight on the side of the living?

Helping to save the world from the undead apocalypse would certainly soften their image, and the contact with more civilized allies could explain the cultural shifts producing more heroic goblins.

Then why did no other race get a core promotion? Orc armies not useful enough? Kobolds are too clever and made the dwarfs jealous? Even if only goblins helped, why does that not change the views of the other monsters? I mean, if people were wrong about goblins? Then there is the fact that kobolds, orcs, and others are better suited and better placed to advance in the world. So why do only goblins get the PR upgrade? No matter the answer provided for goblins, it has an impact on the greater story. Which is why simply hot gluing goblins to the old core race line up doesn't work.

Space. I reckon if they could give every humanoid race the upgrade they could. But that would be a book as big as the CRB itself.

[gustavo iglesias]

Ryan Freire wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Ryan Freire wrote:

To view them as heroes you have to overlook that they're all NE and one specifically likes to torture small helpless animals to death.

That bolded part is what it is not true, and it's the part that the second edition will probably expand the explanation on.

Only outsiders (and other [Alignment] tagged creatures, like dragons) are bound by their alignment "genetics". Everyone else can be raised in different aligments, if they get themselves surrounded by the proper social communities. Even half-outsiders, like tieflings, can be of any aligment. There are good communities of orcs in Belkzen, who follow Saerenrae, and the orcs of Garund are reportedly non-evil.

Dude you quoted out of context. That was in response to the "heros" of we be goblins. They're ALL NE and one specifically likes to torture small animals to death.

My fault. Yes, I came late to the thread and I undertood it wrong, thought you were talking about goblins in general. I apologize for it

[MidsouthGuy]

Here's my theory as to Goblins in PF2:

Paizo only wants to include their weird little homicidal mascots in the core rules as a way to get more brand recognition, but now so many people are saying that it doesn't make any sense and that Goblins wouldn't be allowed at their table that they won't actually make it into the PF2 Corebook.

Or at least that's what I'm hoping for.

[ENHenry]

Paizo apparently did TOO good of a job painting goblins as nasty buggers - the genocial hate in the Paizo fan base on an imaginary race is pretty darned intense!

I personally DON’T CARE! They’re as real as elves and orcs! Orcs rape their enemies to death with such frequency that humans adjacent to Belkzen have special knives to KILL THEMSELVES with before they get captured — and yet some people would be happier with full blood orcs as a core race.

[Natan Linggod 327]

ENHenry wrote:

Paizo apparently did TOO good of a job painting goblins as nasty buggers - the genocial hate in the Paizo fan base on an imaginary race is pretty darned intense!

I personally DON’T CARE! They’re as real as elves and orcs! Orcs rape their enemies to death with such frequency that humans adjacent to Belkzen have special knives to KILL THEMSELVES with before they get captured — and yet some people would be happier with full blood orcs as a core race.

Aren't there orc tribes outside of Belkzen? One's that aren't evil, though still primitive?

[Deadmanwalking]

Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

Aren't there orc tribes outside of Belkzen? One's that aren't evil, though still primitive?

Yes. Hell, there's one tribe with a CG leader in Belkzen itself.

[Felinus]

While I am not a fan of PC goblins, particularly when there is greater justification for Core Tieflings, there is one potential explanation...

Cantorian Supremacy

[UnArcaneElection]

^Although that description is really brief, it doesn't sound like it would make things better . . . .

[The Raven Black]

ENHenry wrote:

Paizo apparently did TOO good of a job painting goblins as nasty buggers - the genocial hate in the Paizo fan base on an imaginary race is pretty darned intense!

I personally DON’T CARE! They’re as real as elves and orcs! Orcs rape their enemies to death with such frequency that humans adjacent to Belkzen have special knives to KILL THEMSELVES with before they get captured — and yet some people would be happier with full blood orcs as a core race.

I think centuries of hatred and propaganda can readily explain this kind of tradition

[Jurassic Pratt]

I remember a post by Jason saying that there was a decent sized part of the reason that Goblins are now core that he couldn't reveal yet. I'd wager that something happens in either Return of the Runelords or the final PF1 AP that will have this make a lot more sense.

My bets are either the final AP goes to another continent and we find tribes of goblins with a very different culture there, or that time travel in Return of the Runelords messes with some stuff.

[Fuzzypaws]

Is time travel an actual confirmed thing for that adventure path? Because goblins aside, that raises questions about the AP as a whole; very few authors can manage time travel in a logically consistent way that doesn't trip over itself.

[graystone]

Jurassic Pratt wrote:

I'd wager that something happens in either Return of the Runelords or the final PF1 AP that will have this make a lot more sense.

LOL I'll think they'll TRY to do something to justify socially acceptable goblins... I wouldn't take a bet that it'll make sense to me.

My 'vote' is time traveling space goblins that crash into the planet after a mind control doomsday weapon changes them sane. And the sanity is contagious to other goblins! ;P

[gustavo iglesias]

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

[Mbertorch]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

[graystone]

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

They poison their laser guns? ;P

[gustavo iglesias]

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

That's pretty easy.

Quadratic wuxia-level martial goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria without alignment that use at-will and encounter powers fueled by spell points instead of vancian magic who use wands of cure light wounds that weight 1 bulk.

[Mbertorch]

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

That's pretty easy.

Quadratic wuxia-level martial goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria without alignment that use at-will and encounter powers fueled by spell points instead of vancian magic who use wands of cure light wounds that weight 1 bulk.

They should probably be Huge size, too. Maybe four arms?

[graystone]

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

That's pretty easy.

Quadratic wuxia-level martial goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria without alignment that use at-will and encounter powers fueled by spell points instead of vancian magic who use wands of cure light wounds that weight 1 bulk.

They should probably be Huge size, too. Maybe four arms?

Is it dishonorable if you bombard something from space with galactic rail guns?

[Mbertorch]

graystone wrote:

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

Mbertorch wrote:

gustavo iglesias wrote:

I hope they introduce hero goblins in a time-traveling AP about goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria.

I keep trying to think of a way to make this more controversial... Ha

That's pretty easy.

Quadratic wuxia-level martial goblin paladins with laser guns from Numeria without alignment that use at-will and encounter powers fueled by spell points instead of vancian magic who use wands of cure light wounds that weight 1 bulk.

They should probably be Huge size, too. Maybe four arms?

Is it dishonorable if you bombard something from space with galactic rail guns?

Not if you tell it you're going to beforehand...?

[Doktor Weasel]

Fuzzypaws wrote:

Is time travel an actual confirmed thing for that adventure path? Because goblins aside, that raises questions about the AP as a whole; very few authors can manage time travel in a logically consistent way that doesn't trip over itself.

Sadly, this does seem to be a confirmed point of the AP. James Jacobs mentioned it in his banquet speech, and it's been mentioned elsewhere. Time travel is very rarely done well, and using it as justification for a retcon is basically the absolute worst possible choice in my opinion. "They have more nuance than previously shown" would be a far superior choice than some time-travel deus ex machina nonsense.

[Deadmanwalking]

There's time travel confirmed, yeah, but based on his speech it's all in the last few years (ie: you time travel in the later bits to stuff in the early bits, or go back to when Queen Ileosa died, not back centuries or millennia), so it isn't a retcon of the sort people seem to be worried about here.

[graystone]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

There's time travel confirmed, yeah, but based on his speech it's all in the last few years (ie: you time travel in the later bits to stuff in the early bits, or go back to when Queen Ileosa died, not back centuries or millennia), so it isn't a retcon of the sort people seem to be worried about here.

For myself, it'd be easier accept if it WAS a time traveling retcon... martian androids from the future going back in time to inject goblins with sanity juice would at least explain the 180 degree turn in 10 years far better than the other less campy reasons I've seen.

[Deadmanwalking]

I'm merely striving to accurately report events as they occurred. :)

[UnArcaneElection]

^Don't you mean to report events as they will occur, or maybe I should say will have occurred . . . wait, how does it go . . . ?

[Doktor Weasel]

Deadmanwalking wrote:

There's time travel confirmed, yeah, but based on his speech it's all in the last few years (ie: you time travel in the later bits to stuff in the early bits, or go back to when Queen Ileosa died, not back centuries or millennia), so it isn't a retcon of the sort people seem to be worried about here.

Yeah, I've since seen some other things suggesting that they aren't using the time travel element for that kind of retcon. That's a relief. I'm a huge opponent of major overnight shifts in a setting, and using time-travel to do it is basically the laziest most ham-handed way to do it. Thankfully it looks like they aren't going that route. And I'm hoping they won't have a big overnight change either.

[AnimatedPaper]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^Don't you mean to report events as they will occur, or maybe I should say will have occurred . . . wait, how does it go . . . ?

Go home And sleep it off, Chromie.

[johnlocke90]

Time travel would make more sense than people suddenly deciding to trust goblin, who were literally trying to kill and eat them a year prior.

[Wermut]

johnlocke90 wrote:

Time travel would make more sense than people suddenly deciding to trust goblin, who were literally trying to kill and eat them a year prior.

Not a fan of time travel, but yes thats the point. The problem isnt if Goblins could turn good. The problem is that people have no time change their believes?

Oh and another point: is a good goblin still goblin enough or just a gnome with body issues?

[Mystic Lemur]

Wermut wrote:

Oh and another point: is a good goblin still goblin enough or just a gnome with body issues?

According to Goblins of Golarion "Goblins enjoy inflicting misery and causing pain, and a goblin who doesn’t isn’t truly a goblin—he’s some sort of freak’s freak." So, no.

Seriously, you can't spend 10 years telling us that goblins are the next best thing to demons at being chaotic evil, and then expect us to willingly accept them being made into a core race. I don't have a problem with goblin PCs who are willing to roleplay being an exception to the rule. What I have a problem with is expecting goblins as a whole to somehow suddenly become as accepted as even half-orcs.

[Rysky]

Mystic Lemur wrote:

Wermut wrote:

Oh and another point: is a good goblin still goblin enough or just a gnome with body issues?

According to Goblins of Golarion "Goblins enjoy inflicting misery and causing pain, and a goblin who doesn’t isn’t truly a goblin—he’s some sort of freak’s freak." So, no.

Seriously, you can't spend 10 years telling us that goblins are the next best thing to demons at being chaotic evil, and then expect us to willingly accept them being made into a core race. I don't have a problem with goblin PCs who are willing to roleplay being an exception to the rule. What I have a problem with is expecting goblins as a whole to somehow suddenly become as accepted as even half-orcs.

And where was it stated that they would?

[Corrik]

Rysky wrote:

Mystic Lemur wrote:

Wermut wrote:

Oh and another point: is a good goblin still goblin enough or just a gnome with body issues?

According to Goblins of Golarion "Goblins enjoy inflicting misery and causing pain, and a goblin who doesn’t isn’t truly a goblin—he’s some sort of freak’s freak." So, no.

Seriously, you can't spend 10 years telling us that goblins are the next best thing to demons at being chaotic evil, and then expect us to willingly accept them being made into a core race. I don't have a problem with goblin PCs who are willing to roleplay being an exception to the rule. What I have a problem with is expecting goblins as a whole to somehow suddenly become as accepted as even half-orcs.

And where was it stated that they would?

In the Inner Sea Guide. However for the sake of argument, let's say you are right and they aren't as accepted or wide spread as even half-orcs. Why are they a core race then?

[The Raven Black]

Because Paizo wishes it so

[Rysky]

Petty muh, being “Core” means... absolutely nothing of what’s been posited so far. It simply means this is a race they want to focus and will get more mechanical support. That’s it. It doesn’t mean they’re auto-Good now, it doesn’t mean everybody loves them.

[AnimatedPaper]

And because it lets them keep pumping out "We Be Golbin" adventures with interesting and varied characters without having to wait for the Ancestery/Monster Codex supplement or taking up space in the beastiary.

[The Raven Black]

TBH Goblins are pretty much everywhere near the Inner Sea and especially in Varisia

Not having them as a Core race before is actually stranger given how often they featured in APs and other adventures

[Weather Report]

It's the first foray, outside of the half-orc, into a more typically evil and/or monstrous race (goblinoids, orcs, gnolls, etc) to be in the core rules for a D&D/PF edition. Most people are familiar with goblins, in some way, so it makes sense to include them off all the normally evil humanoids.

[Ssalarn]

Corrik wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Mystic Lemur wrote:

Wermut wrote:

Oh and another point: is a good goblin still goblin enough or just a gnome with body issues?

According to Goblins of Golarion "Goblins enjoy inflicting misery and causing pain, and a goblin who doesn’t isn’t truly a goblin—he’s some sort of freak’s freak." So, no.

Seriously, you can't spend 10 years telling us that goblins are the next best thing to demons at being chaotic evil, and then expect us to willingly accept them being made into a core race. I don't have a problem with goblin PCs who are willing to roleplay being an exception to the rule. What I have a problem with is expecting goblins as a whole to somehow suddenly become as accepted as even half-orcs.

And where was it stated that they would?

In the Inner Sea Guide. However for the sake of argument, let's say you are right and they aren't as accepted or wide spread as even half-orcs. Why are they a core race then?

That's not quite right. The Inner Sea World Guide describes the core races as being "The most expansive and populous of Golarion's races[...]" which goblins absolutely are. Goblins actually significantly outnumber several of the core races; half-orcs in particular are nowhere near as numerous, and goblins outbreed dwarfs by a ludicrous factor, since dwarves rarely have more than 2 children and reach adulthood at 40 years, while goblins breed continuously and reach adulthood in only 5 years. Goblins can also be found throughout Golarion, including across the Inner Sea region, throughout Tian Xia, and across the caverns of the Darklands. "Populous and expansive" is not even remotely the same as "generally well-liked by others".