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I am interested in making a character for PFS who wields a shield as their primary weapon. Maybe using 2 shields...one for offense, one for defense (not TWFing and hitting with both).
20 point buy, only PFS legal classes/feats/etc. Prefer half-elf, or maybe human for the race. Also prefer light or no armor (other than the shield obviously).
Brawler is the first class that came to mind (light armor and shield proficiency, flexible feats, etc). The Shield Champion archetype looks interesting, but I'm not really interested in turning the character into a Captain America clone who specializes in throwing their shield, more interested in getting in close and bashing people.
Looking through the shield related feats, it looks like several of them require TWF, not sure if I would be better off dipping a couple levels into Ranger or Slayer to pick it up without having to invest a bunch of stat points into Dex.
Seeing lots of feats, so maybe fighter primary, or dip a couple levels to get some extra feats?
Anyone got any good PFS level shield basher builds?
So the Brawler lets you bypass the Dex requirements for two - weapon fighting. You can pump strength while keeping Dex at a 13 or 14. It lets you attack with the same weapon, so you don’t have to invest in two weapons. You add strength to all the attacks, so you don’t need to get double-slice. Also, you can two-hand the heavy shield. It won’t add extra damage from strength, but it will from power attack. When not making a full attack, wielding the shield two-handed lets you keep up on damage.
Kinda sounds like you want Brawler lol.
The way I understand it, the Brawlers Flurry class feature qualifies you to pick up feats like shield slam and shield Mastery, but they would only “turn on” when making a full attack. So, for instance, if you charged against an opponent and hit them with your shield you would not get a free bull rush against them. If you were able to make a full attack against them the following turn every attack would get the bull rush.
It is hard to say no to shield master at level 6 though.
Leading with slayer or ranger 6 could totally be a thing though, both classes can bypass TWF requirements.
I mean the joy of martials is that by and large (except outside of fighter post AWT/AAT) you don't get screwed over for significant level dips.
Slayer/ranger 6 Brawler shield archetype X
Edit: There's a decent argument for sucking the stat split up and single classing through Viking from UW Rage is good enough to give up weapon training for and offsets the stat split for TWF well, and it also eventually leads to pounce.
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Some combination of Siegebreaker Fighter, Shield Champion Brawler, and Ranger or Slayer seems like it might work.
1-2 levels of Siegebreaker Fighter, 1 level gets you the ability to bull rush and overrun without provoking, a 2nd level gets you a free overrun when you succeed at bull rush.
2 or 6 levels of Ranger or Slayer, early access to shield slam, shield master, access to TWF without needing dex. (Full TWF would allow for all feats to be active even when not flurrying) Any good archetypes for a Ranger/Slayer shield basher? Don't really want an animal companion, so perfectly happy to give that up to a ranger archetype.
1+ levels of Brawler, flurry with a spiked shield, brawlers AC bonus in light armor, martial flexibility, brawlers cunning (13 int for combat feats without having to actually buy 13 int)
The UW Viking is interesting, maybe they will actually add UW to the AR some day, heh.
I like your build Scott, just not what I am looking for. Thunder and Fang just isn't what I was picturing for this character. Thanks for showing it to me though :)
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I played a shield basher in PFS to L12.
Ranger 6/Horizon Walker 3/Viking X (or just go R6/HW X)
IMHO just go high STR and 2H the shield. I originally went with the intent of using Bullrushes...but honestly, 95% it was just better and easier to 2H Power Attack smash something with my shield.
Once I got the Dimensional (X) feats up and running, I would just DimDoor in and smash away. It was never about the damage dice, but the static mods. With the double-dip of armor enchantment as weapon enchantment, it's pretty easy to become a bruiser.
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I have another suggestion: Phalanx Soldier Fighter or the Shield Brace Feat. With Either, you could fight with a Pole Arm in 1 hand and a Shield in the other. You could fight with a Lucerne Hammer: Brace, Reach, Piercing, and Bludgeoning, then use your Shield Slam to Bull Rush away anyone who gets inside your Reach. Or you could fight Halberd and Shield, or any of a combination of things.
I am just wanting to use a shield by itself. Not in combination with another weapon. I just want to run up and bash people with the shield until they stop moving.
honestly, 95% it was just better and easier to 2H Power Attack smash something with my shield.
With the Shield Slam feat, any time you bash something with your shield you get a free Bull Rush on them. Combine that with 2 levels of Siegebreaker Fighter and you get a free Overrun attempt with every Bull Rush...so basically, every time you attack someone with your shield you get a free Bull Rush and a free Overrun on them. Siegebreaker also makes your Bull Rush and Overrun do a bit of damage too, it isn't much, but damage is damage. :)
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If you’re doing the ranger or slayer, you should be aware of the dwarven war shield.
Link
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With the Shield Slam feat, any time you bash something with your shield you get a free Bull Rush on them. Combine that with 2 levels of Siegebreaker Fighter and you get a free Overrun attempt with every Bull Rush...so basically, every time you attack someone with your shield you get a free Bull Rush and a free Overrun on them. Siegebreaker also makes your Bull Rush and Overrun do a bit of damage too, it isn't much, but damage is damage. :)
Oh, I understand. Here's the thing I experienced--it just wasn't worth all the extra CMB rolls and movement. If it's your bag, cool, bash and overrun away!
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If you’re doing the ranger or slayer, you should be aware of the dwarven war shield.
They seem interesting, but not really worth it if you aren't using them in pairs. Especially since they are an exotic weapon. A simple spiked heavy shield does almost everything they can do.
I still feel like you should do something with your other hand, though. Maybe take Quickdraw and Precise Shot and carry around some Throwing Weapons? A couple of short spears, some throwing hammers, some daggers, something: some Ranged ability can only help.
I'll probably use the free hand to get 2 handed damage on the shield most of the time. If I go with the Shield Champion Brawler, I'll be able to throw and ricochet my shield in combat to deal with ranged threats.
Oh, I understand. Here's the thing I experienced--it just wasn't worth all the extra CMB rolls and movement. If it's your bag, cool, bash and overrun away!
The Bull Rush part seems more useful to me, push them into a more advantageous position, push them into a wall and knock them prone, etc.
Right now, I am leaning towards starting off with 6 levels of Slayer, then 2 levels of Siegebreaker Fighter, then finish off with levels in Shield Champion Brawler. Trying to decide between Human and Half-Elf...kind of leaning towards Half-Elf for RP reasons, and the 2 favored class racial trait...but the Human bonus feat is super tempting too.
If you’re doing the ranger or slayer, you should be aware of the dwarven war shield.They seem interesting, but not really worth it if you aren't using them in pairs. Especially since they are an exotic weapon. A simple spiked heavy shield does almost everything they can do.
If you’re going the ranger or slayer route, then you would probably be dual wielding. And you may have missed they are light weapons, which is good for dual wielding. And being able to choose between piercing and slashing can come in useful fairly often. So it’s a fairly decent option for a shield guy. It’s also a definitive way to fight with two shields as some DMs might normally deny that ability as falsely being unrealistic.
I was recently looking to a shield bash character for someone else, and came up with a build that was a little different.
First off, let me say that if you plan on getting Improved Shield Bash, there is no reason to on using two shields. I tried to convince my friend to roll with a heavy shield and a tower shield. The benefit of using the tower shield is that you can set it to get cover and still get the AC from your other shield. Not sure if you want to try to build around that.
Just for you to get some ideas, here's a build that I made a few days ago. It is just a rough draft and needs refined ( and will probably never be played.)
Human SiegeBreaker-Fighter
Feats :
Two-Weapon Fighting (I didn't want to, but it is a pre-req of Shield Slam)
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Slam
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Power Attack (Pre-req)
Improved Overrun
Improved Bullrush (optional, I guess)
Spring-heeled Style
Spring-heeled Sprint
Spring-heeled Reaping
Armor Training:
AT1: Normal
AT2: Advanced Armor Training: Poised bearing
AT3: Imposing Bearing
Weapon Training:
Didn't pick this stuff, nothing seemed immediately relevant
So, this seems complete at level 13. The basic method of play is...
Because of AT, you can travel at full speed in heavy armor. Use your Spring-heeled style to get an attack on two enemies. You have 60 feet to work with without enhancement bonuses. Run up to someone and attack them with a Shield Bash. Shield Bash triggers Shield Slam (Free bull rush). Bull rush triggers Breaker Rush(damage) and Breaker Momentum (free overrun). Your overrun will trigger Breaker Rush again. Then you run up to the next enemy and do it again. The biggest problem was having the required movement involved in all this, which is why I went Spring-heeled style. Another concern was large creatures, so use grabbing Poised and Imposing Bearings will let you bullrush Gargantuan creatures (and with Enlarge Person, you can get Colossal, obviously)
Heavy Spiked Shield at level 13 will be:
Attack: 1d6 + STR + 8 (Power Attack)
Bull Rush: STR + 2 + Armor/Shield Enhancement Bonus
Overrun: STR + 2 + Armor/Shield Enhancement Bonus
Total = 1d6 + STRx3 + Armor/Shield Enhancement Bonusx2 + 12
So, not super great damage, but you will be moving enemies around. If you beat the overrun by 5, you knock them prone. I guess you'll probably want your CMB to be in the mid-upper 20's if you want a shot at the bigger stuff at level 13. You'll need about +10 from magic items to get there.
The focused weapon advanced weapon training is pretty great if you are going fighter.
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Been tinkering around in Hero Lab with a few different variations of the build.
Option 1 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Slayer 4. This method gets Shield Master at level 6, so starts counting the shield enchantment bonus as a weapon bonus at level 6. Fights with 2 shields and heavy armor, does pretty respectable damage and has a high AC.
Option 2 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 4. Same shield master at 6, uses a single shield and heavy armor, similar damage, 1 martial flexibility feat to play with.
Option 3 is Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 10. More expensive, have to pay for weapon and shield enchantments. More versatility from extra brawler levels.
Other options include things like forgetting about the Siegebreaker and Shield Champion archetypes and just going straight up Brawler, Fighter, or Slayer, and just bashing things without worrying about the bull rush and overrun shenanigans. Maybe Slayer 2 for TWF without the Dex requirement, then Fighter or Brawler 10 for the rest?
So many possibilities...
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Been tinkering around in Hero Lab with a few different variations of the build.
Option 1 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Slayer 4. This method gets Shield Master at level 6, so starts counting the shield enchantment bonus as a weapon bonus at level 6. Fights with 2 shields and heavy armor, does pretty respectable damage and has a high AC.
Option 2 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 4. Same shield master at 6, uses a single shield and heavy armor, similar damage, 1 martial flexibility feat to play with.
Option 3 is Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 10. More expensive, have to pay for weapon and shield enchantments. More versatility from extra brawler levels.
Other options include things like forgetting about the Siegebreaker and Shield Champion archetypes and just going straight up Brawler, Fighter, or Slayer, and just bashing things without worrying about the bull rush and overrun shenanigans. Maybe Slayer 2 for TWF without the Dex requirement, then Fighter or Brawler 10 for the rest?
So many possibilities...
I'm being a bit dense here, but how does a Slayer get Shield Master at lvl 6?
The Shield Bearer Human Race Trait is something to consider.
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I'm being a bit dense here, but how does a Slayer get Shield Master at lvl 6?Been tinkering around in Hero Lab with a few different variations of the build.
Option 1 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Slayer 4. This method gets Shield Master at level 6, so starts counting the shield enchantment bonus as a weapon bonus at level 6. Fights with 2 shields and heavy armor, does pretty respectable damage and has a high AC.
Option 2 is Slayer 6, Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 4. Same shield master at 6, uses a single shield and heavy armor, similar damage, 1 martial flexibility feat to play with.
Option 3 is Siegebreaker Fighter 2, Shield Champion Brawler 10. More expensive, have to pay for weapon and shield enchantments. More versatility from extra brawler levels.
Other options include things like forgetting about the Siegebreaker and Shield Champion archetypes and just going straight up Brawler, Fighter, or Slayer, and just bashing things without worrying about the bull rush and overrun shenanigans. Maybe Slayer 2 for TWF without the Dex requirement, then Fighter or Brawler 10 for the rest?
So many possibilities...
Ayers talent > Ranger combat > style sword and shield. It's very very good.
Snowstrider regional trait lets you trip/rush 2 sizes larger,
Human for the feats, and that neat trait,
Siegebreaker for the first two levels,
Sword and board Ranger or Slayer for the rest,
1. Power Attack
1. Improved Bull Rush
1. Spiked Destroyer
2. Improved Overrun
3. Dodge
4. Shield Slam
5. Mobility
6.
7. Spring Attack
8. Shield Master
9. Greater Bull Rush
10.
11. Sliding Dash
12. Bashing Finish
You can probably switch dodge, mobility, and spring attack for Step Up, Follow Up, and Step Up and Strike, respectively, if you feel like it.
Anyways, slide behind your target, bash them back towards your party, hit them with your armor spikes for free.
If you take Skirmisher Ranger you get a couple neat maneuvers, too.
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I've GM'd a few games for one of our locals, playing a Shield Champion. This gets stupidly broken around about level 8, thanks to a combination of the Bashing enchantment, and the increased base damage the brawler confers to weapons, extended to shields by the Shield Champion archetype. At level 8, the base damage goes to 1d10, and Bashing adds 2 size categories to this, which increases the base damage to 3d8. Flurry means a full attack is two attacks at full bab, and one iterative.
For extra damage, he also wields the shield as a two-handed weapon, and power attacks. With an 18 Strength (and pretty sure he has higher), the basic damage for each attack is 3d8+15, and with Furious Focus, he's hitting at full BAB on at least the first one. Even without a haste, his damage capability is up to 117pts a round, with an average closer to about 60.
With the addition of the Throw Shield ability, the character can attack both in melee and at range, without changing weapons, making him quite versatile.
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Except that there's a STRONG chance that it doesn't work.
Bashing increases the damage of the shield to be 2 sizes larger.
Brawler lets you remove the base damage and replace it with your punch damage.
So it's very likely that bashing increases the damage before looking to replace the shields damage with your punch damage.
The Shield Bearer Human Race Trait is something to consider.
Is this a human only race trait? Looking here it doesn't say so. I was hoping to take it on a Dwarf Shielded Fighter.
Speaking of Shielded Fighter, it's never brought up when folks talk about shield bashing characters. Why is that? I mean, I can kind of understand looking at the specs of this archetype. It does really suck that you still have to wait till level 11 for Shield Master. But it does get +1 to attack & damage when shield bashing (per 5 levels). I guess besides this ability, all the others are defensive oriented. It's just kind of weird to see an archetype called Shielded Fighter but it never gets mentioned when it comes to fighting with a shield.
The Shield Bearer Human Race Trait is something to consider.Is this a human only race trait? Looking here it doesn't say so. I was hoping to take it on a Dwarf Shielded Fighter.
It's a Race Trait from Humans of Golarion and requires that you be Ulfen, a human ethnicity, so I'm pretty sure that the race in question is human. d20pfsrd isn't allowed to use terms like Ulfen so I'm guessing that's why the entry is incomplete. Archives of Nethys is a much better source for Pathfinder information.
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After a bit more playing around with various builds and the general consensus that Close Weapon Mastery overrides the Bashing enchantment, I've decided to go straight Shield Champion Brawler. The Martial Versatility and ability to throw the shield if necessary will add a lot of depth to the character. Not getting early access to Shield Master will hurt a little, but will mostly just mean I have to spend more gold to enchant my shield with both weapon and armor enchantments.
Here is the build I am currently looking at.
Race: Human
Alignment: CG
Faction: Liberty's Edge?
Str: 17
Dex: 15
Con: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 10
Cha: 13
Alternate Racial Traits: None
Traits: Shield Bearer, ??
Favored Class: Brawler, HP every level
Items:
+1, Adamantine, Shrinking on shield (6000gp)
+3 Heavy Shield with Reinforcing boss (9050gp)
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (8000gp)
Belt of Physical Perfection +2 (16000gp)
Boots of Speed (12000gp)
Cloak of Resistance +3 (9000gp)
Monk's Robe (13000gp)
Ring of Protection +2 (8000gp)
Total GP = 91150
1. Feat: Improved Shield Bash
Human Bonus Feat: Power Attack
2. Brawler Feat: Shield Focus
3. Feat: Weapon Focus: Heavy Shield
4. +1 Str
5. Feat: Weapon Specialization: Heavy Shield
Brawler Feat: Shield Specialization: Heavy Shield
6. -
7. Feat: Shield Slam
8. +1 Dex
Brawler Feat: Greater Shield Focus
9. Feat: Stumbling Bash
10. -
11. Feat: Weapon Versatility?
Brawler Feat: Bashing Finish
12. +1 Con
With this build I'll be looking at 124 HP with a 35 AC at level 12, attacking at +17/+17/+12/+12/+7 for 2d6+25 per hit. Or I can throw the shield and ricochet it at +20/+15/+10 for 2d6+11
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Kind of thinking of taking Mock Gladiator for my second trait, lets me deal non-lethal when we need to subdue someone instead of killing them, and the occasional free intimidate check is always nice too.
Not too sure about Weapon Versatility at 11...with an adamantine weapon I probably won't need it...any suggestions for something better?
Kind of thinking of taking Mock Gladiator for my second trait, lets me deal non-lethal when we need to subdue someone instead of killing them, and the occasional free intimidate check is always nice too.
Not too sure about Weapon Versatility at 11...with an adamantine weapon I probably won't need it...any suggestions for something better?
Sliding Dash let's you move through the target of your charge and you are considered to be flanking. Bashing the target back towards your team exciting all their AoO.
Take shield bash
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Except that there's a STRONG chance that it doesn't work.
Bashing increases the damage of the shield to be 2 sizes larger.
Brawler lets you remove the base damage and replace it with your punch damage.
So it's very likely that bashing increases the damage before looking to replace the shields damage with your punch damage.
Look again at the rule - brawler replaces the BASE damage - this is before all other modifiers. If it doesn't work that way, what is the point of replacing base damage?
Looking back at my example, I do see I made a mistake with it though - Close Weapon Mastery gives you base damage of the Brawler level -4, so at level 8, it actually sets the base damage to 1d8, which then goes to 3d6 for Bashing. The 3d8 for Bashing doesn't kick in until level 12.
Don't forget the "Shield trained" trait that let's your heavy shield count as a light weapon!
You have to worship Gorum, but it's a must for a shield based character!
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Shield Trained is only helpful if you are actually dual wielding. It does nothing for a brawler's flurry, or a character who simply carries a shield and bashes people with it. (unless you want to go for a finesse based shield basher I suppose).
I am skipping the bashing enchantment until Paizo makes some kind of official ruling on how it interacts, just too much variation in how different players and GMs interpret it. I'll still end up doing greatsword level damage with a flurry attack, so only really losing a few damage per hit.
So if someone wanted to twf with shields, is "Shield Master at 6 and suck it up and find the dex for improved two-weapon fighting" a better choice than the two-weapon style and taking shield feats the old fashioned way?
I mean, Shield Master is great, but if I wanted to use Dwarven Warshields that 17 dex for improved twf is kind of out of reach.
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Shield Master is nice and all, but I personally found it wasn't worth it to take that many levels in Slayer or Ranger for what I wanted to do. I can just spend the money to give my shield both weapon and armor enchants, and removing the TWF penalties is not that OP.
If you want to use 2 shields, I would say the most important thing to have would be to worship Gorum so you can take the Shield Trained trait and treat a heavy shield as a light weapon.
I just want to run up and bash people with the shield until they stop moving.
This is my mentality when making a character. "I wanna play a bad Drow Spiderman" was my last concept and I love it. Let no one keep you down Slyme. Always make the fun character your way.
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I always aim for unusual characters, I've been playing RPGs since 1979...all the iconic character types bore me.
My current roster of characters includes a couple really simple concept characters, and a few more unusual builds...even my more traditional characters usually have some sort of quirk to them, whether it is an unusual choice in weapons/armor, or some odd personality traits, unusual race choice, etc.
-1 is a Kitsune Hunter/Rogue who is overly optimized and can perform amazingly both in and out of combat. Loads of skills and Realistic Likeness, then turns into a murder machine in combat with TWF keen kukris and a tiger animal companion optimized for flanking related teamwork.
-2 is a Dwarven vital strike build that uses an over sized Dorn-Dergar
-3 is a Gnomish monk who throws out a lot of hits per turn and stacks debuffs with most of them. (Imagine Master Roshi from DBZ mixed with Pai Mei from Kill Bill)
-4 is a Sylph Warpriest of Calistria/Avenger Vigilante who wields a whip and is a gender fluid man-whore who will sleep with anyone, any time, for any reason.
-5 is a Nagaji Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple who wanted to be a Paladin but didn't have the patience or divine connection. He also swears he is born of Dragons, not those vile snake people.
-6 is a Half-Orc Geokineticist who has attuned to the earth so much that his skin has actually crystallized, he was also abused as a child and has an imaginary friend who is much smarter than he is (Elemental Whispers Sage familiar)
-7 Currently a washed up former actor who was recruited by the Pathfinder Society to live out his character in real life (See Mindhorn on Netflix) Only 1 chronicle sheet, may scrap this guy.
-8 Half-Elf Paladin of Sarenrae, pure healer took the Hospitaler and Warrior of Holy Light archetypes (gave up spellcasting for supercharged Lay on Hands and a dedicated pool for channeling)
-9 Half-Gnome (Human with Racial Heritage:Gnome) Tattooed Sorceress (Undead Bloodline), little goth/emo girl illusionist who is obsessed with death (and slowly turning undead herself). All of her illusions are super creepy, ghouls and ghosts, etc. Does everything she can to make people think she is actually a super powerful nercromancer.
-10 unmade blob character, going to be an alchemist whose experiments keep backfiring and giving him more and more mutations (tentacle, vestigial limb, tumor familiar, etc). No matter how hard he tries to cure himself, he just makes things worse.
-11 The character this thread was made for. Ulfen shield maiden. Imagine "Bodybuilder Barbie"...super tall, blonde hair, blue eyes, beautiful face...with a bodybuilder body (Google Julia Vins for a visual reference). But, she is super girly...hates anything dirty or scary (screams like an 8 year old when fighting scary monsters), likes frilly/girly clothes, etc.
and those are just the ones I've actually registered and/or gotten credit/chronicle sheets for :)