Probably Bloodrager. Barbarians are cool, but the bloodlines and magic give a Bloodrager so much more flexiblity for builds. Also bloodrage has all sorts of flavor opportunities while most of my group seems dead set against allowing reflavoring Barbarian Rage as, well, anything but Rage.
I like the Barbarian, but outside of the "One-True Barbarian" build, they're not great. It doesn't have a lot of versatility (in terms of build). Bloodragers have a lot more versatility due to bloodlines.
If I had to choose only one, I'd probably go with Bloodrager.
I pretty much exclusively use them for dips.
So probably Bloodrager because I have a lot of Lawful Characters. Although for a nonlawful one I would pick Barbarian for the HD.
Since bloodline familiars are a thing, a level in bloodrager is pretty much strictly better than a level in barbarian, regardless of your alignment. Even a standard verdant bloodline bloodrager, for that matter, will beat a barbarian for level one survivability nine times out of ten.I pretty much exclusively use them for dips.
So probably Bloodrager because I have a lot of Lawful Characters. Although for a nonlawful one I would pick Barbarian for the HD.
Depends on how many levels and if the GM is sane enough to ban the primalist archetype
Bloodrager.
Not for any nuts and bolts reason- they're just more fun for me.
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Depends on how many levels and if the GM is sane enough to ban the primalist archetypeSince bloodline familiars are a thing, a level in bloodrager is pretty much strictly better than a level in barbarian, regardless of your alignment. Even a standard verdant bloodline bloodrager, for that matter, will beat a barbarian for level one survivability nine times out of ten.I pretty much exclusively use them for dips.
So probably Bloodrager because I have a lot of Lawful Characters. Although for a nonlawful one I would pick Barbarian for the HD.
Yeah this is assumed that primalist is banned.
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All things considered? Barbarian.
Why? After all things considered, personal preference sways me. Yes, Bloodrager is objectively better, but sometimes you just want to hit stuff so hard you sunder magic with your weapon, and not have to worry about spellcasting or bloodlines.
I like the Barbarian, but outside of the "One-True Barbarian" build, they're not great. It doesn't have a lot of versatility (in terms of build). Bloodragers have a lot more versatility due to bloodlines.
I have played a wilderness-survival barbarian PC and a gunslinging bloodrager NPC. The barbarian was more fun because she was a PC.
I deliberately build NPCs as background characters. A lot of bloodrager bloodlines are weak, and I picked one of those, Air Elemental. But I also gave her a homebrew archetype for firearm use, a bloodline valet familiar for crafting, and primalist archetype because losing her 1st-level bloodline power made her 12th-level bloodline power useless.
Nevertheless, my barbarian devoted to scouting and hunting was a viable character that had little in common with the standard high-damage barbarian. Barbarians have versatility, and they can cover almost any non-magical role. Yet one role they cannot cover, arcane casting and crafting, is handed to the bloodrager along with the same versatility.
I like the Barbarian, but outside of the "One-True Barbarian" build, they're not great. It doesn't have a lot of versatility (in terms of build). Bloodragers have a lot more versatility due to bloodlines.I have played a wilderness-survival barbarian PC and a gunslinging bloodrager NPC. The barbarian was more fun because she was a PC.
I deliberately build NPCs as background characters. A lot of bloodrager bloodlines are weak, and I picked one of those, Air Elemental. But I also gave her a homebrew archetype for firearm use, a bloodline valet familiar for crafting, and primalist archetype because losing her 1st-level bloodline power made her 12th-level bloodline power useless.
Nevertheless, my barbarian devoted to scouting and hunting was a viable character that had little in common with the standard high-damage barbarian. Barbarians have versatility, and they can cover almost any non-magical role. Yet one role they cannot cover, arcane casting and crafting, is handed to the bloodrager along with the same versatility.
I don't know you're exact build, but I'm guessing that the majority of your barbarian build relied on simply have skill points invested in survival for tracking and such. Such a character can be extremely satisfying from an RP perspective. As well, those sorts of abilities are often overlooked so that you are the only one who can do it and it becomes a huge boon. However, I don't think (I can't recall all barbarian rage powers) that there is a whole lot to support such a character from the barbarian chassis. That doesn't really represent much about the versatility of the class so much as it represents who satisfying it is to play a character that
1) has good RP potential2) doesn't have it's role in the party usurped by someone else
(It's fun for the fighter with the high charisma to be the party face if no one else bothers and the wizard doesn't use charm person, but that fighter will never be a "master", but can be good enough for the adventure.)
I do like the Savage Technologist Archetype for Barbarian.
... Nevertheless, my barbarian devoted to scouting and hunting was a viable character that had little in common with the standard high-damage barbarian. Barbarians have versatility, and they can cover almost any non-magical role.I don't know you're exact build, but I'm guessing that the majority of your barbarian build relied on simply have skill points invested in survival for tracking and such. Such a character can be extremely satisfying from an RP perspective. As well, those sorts of abilities are often overlooked so that you are the only one who can do it and it becomes a huge boon. However, I don't think (I can't recall all barbarian rage powers) that there is a whole lot to support such a character from the barbarian chassis. That doesn't really represent much about the versatility of the class so much as it represents who satisfying it is to play a character that
1) has good RP potential
2) doesn't have it's role in the party usurped by someone else...
The rage powers do support a wilderness survival barbarian with Raging Climber, Raging Leaper, Raging Swimmer, the Bestial versions of them, Scent, and Night Vision. The campaign was the Serpent's Skull adventure path which starts shipwrecked on an isolated island and works its way deep into the Mwangi Expanse jungle. Everyone needed to survive off the land, and the barbarian was best at it despite the party also containing a ranger. We had to learn to craft our own arrows, since we could not purchase them.
The party lacked a cleric or any other healer until hiring one at higher levels, so the barbarian also took the Renewed Vigor rage power. Night Vision paid off because we had recurring enemies with darkvision who loved to attack our camp at night.
Rage powers let the barbarian adapt to long-term unusual situations.
Why not do both? And no, I'm not talking about Primalist (unless you have a Bloodline Power that is so lousy as to be worthless). I'm talking about Metamagic Bloodrager VMC Barbarian(*). Metamagic Rager is odd in replacing Improved Uncanny Dodge, but NOT also replacing Uncanny Dodge, so if you want to go whole hog with this, so if you go Metamagic Rager VMC Barbarian, at 7th level, you get Uncanny Dodge which stacks with Bloodrager Uncanny Dodge to make Improved Uncanny Dodge, while 3rd level gives you what starts out as a weak Extra Rage but levels up into a super Extra Rage(**), and 11th level gives you a genuine Barbarian Rage Power without needing to go Primalist, and 15th level gives you Damage Reduction that stacks on top of Bloodrager Damage Reduction; only 19th level is fully redundant with Bloodrager abilities without a way to stack, and you probably won't get that far anyway (Campaign will end first).
(*)Note: VMC is not PFS-legal.
(**)If the Rage and Bloodrage pools are ruled to be separate, use the Rage pool for actual raging and use the Bloodrage pool for Metamagic, which is going to eat Bloodrage rounds like crazy.
ANSWER AM PRETTY OBVIOUS. DR BLOODRAGER AM BLOODRAGER PHD JUST NOT HAVE SAME RING TO IT.
I like the Bloodrager a lot, either as a dip or straight. That said, the Barbarian does have some advantages including more hit points, needing less attributes, and having many more archetypes.
if primalist is banned then there is no reason to go bloodrager.... if its not then bloodrager all the way unless there a particular build you want to pull off were barbarian would be better
Even with Primalist banned, I think the Bloodrager has several things to offer.
Celestial bloodline can be pretty sweet either as a dip or continuing. The Angelic Attacks at first level allows your weapons to be good aligned any time you blood rage. Your bonus spells are mostly buffs and the bonus feats include Iron Will. Since Bloodragers can be lawful, you can dip for this on a Paladin.
Both Aberrant and Abyssal bloodlines allow you to improve your reach at 4th level when raging -- one by basically getting Longarms spell and the other by basically giving you Enlarge Person.
Arcane bloodline has arguably one of the most powerful bloodline powers at 4th level -- your choice of one of four spells for as long as your bloodrage.
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An abyssal bloodrager butcher axe wielding vital strike build is pretty damned tempting tbqh.
Bloodrager for a list reasons.
There are a advantages to the Barbarian, more if its Unchained version. Danger Sense is pretty useful. Rage Powers give some abilities in particular the Greater Beast Totem gives Pounce.
The weakness being you are limited to having other people cast spells on and for you instead of being self-sufficient.
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Bloodrager has multiple stacking self-improvement abilities. You have 1 Rage, 2 Bloodline powers, and 3 Spells. Combine those things together and you have a Raging Blurred Hasted Enlarged Bloodrager with long reach and half a dozen Attacks of Opportunity.
As a caster the Bloodrager is minor, but as a warrior its quite strong. Its spells are mostly there for buff spells, but even limited to 1-4 tier spells that still gives say Monstrous Physique II, and just being a spellcaster makes it easy to use wands for a lot of uses.
The Primalist is well known by this point but if you do allow it the Barbarian is redundant.
Bloodrager all the way. One of my favorite characters I ever played (for a woefully brief time) was an Abyssal bloodline Bloodrager/Demoniac. Turning into a balor when some guy picked a fight with him in a tavern was priceless.
I pretty much exclusively use them for dips. So probably Bloodrager because I have a lot of Lawful Characters. Although for a nonlawful one I would pick Barbarian for the HD.Since bloodline familiars are a thing, a level in bloodrager is pretty much strictly better than a level in barbarian, regardless of your alignment. Even a standard verdant bloodline bloodrager, for that matter, will beat a barbarian for level one survivability nine times out of ten.
If we're confining ourselves to 1st-level and/or dips, A Savage Technologist barbarian will have a raging AC that is +2 over the Urban archetypes or a fighter or other martial in the same armor, and +4 over any of the other rage-class archetypes.
losing the ability to trade out bad bloodline powers is something that's just not worth itArcane bloodline has arguably one of the most powerful bloodline powers at 4th level -- your choice of one of four spells for as long as your bloodrage.
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Bloodlines vary quite a bit. Arcane Bloodline is probably the best as its mostly a series of instant buff spells every time you rage. Some on your spell list, some not.Other Bloodlines sure, they are very uneven so trading them out would be very nice.
Barbarian's closest equivalent would b the Totem paths. They are uneven as well. 3 Beast Totems give you Pounce at level 10. 5 for Dragon Totem gives you Fly while raging also at level 10.
Barbarian, because the bloodrager just doesn't do it for me and "having spells" does not automatically make it superior. Especially with only 4th level spells.
Barbarian, because the bloodrager just doesn't do it for me and "having spells" does not automatically make it superior. Especially with only 4th level spells.
Sometimes, I feel that my 16th-level bloodrager has spells only up to 3rd level, because the 4th-level spells on the bloodrager spell list don't interest her. Monstrous Physique II is the only 4th-level bloodrager spell that lets her take advantage of her full BAB and weapon proficiencies.
She attacks like a barbarian, charging in raging rather than pausing to buff herself. Therefore, she prefers buff spells that last 10 minutes or 1 hour per level, such as Greater Magic Weapon, so that she can cast them at the beginning of the expedition rather than the beginning of combat. And because she can cast only 11 spells per day. Monstrous Physique II lasts only 1 minute per level.
Strangely, she likes utility spells such as Expeditious Excavation, Mount, and Burrow. Spells are mostly a convenience for her. Bloodline powers are much more important.
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Barbarian, because the bloodrager just doesn't do it for me and "having spells" does not automatically make it superior. Especially with only 4th level spells.Sometimes, I feel that my 16th-level bloodrager has spells only up to 3rd level, because the 4th-level spells on the bloodrager spell list don't interest her. Monstrous Physique II is the only 4th-level bloodrager spell that lets her take advantage of her full BAB and weapon proficiencies.
She attacks like a barbarian, charging in raging rather than pausing to buff herself. Therefore, she prefers buff spells that last 10 minutes or 1 hour per level, such as Greater Magic Weapon, so that she can cast them at the beginning of the expedition rather than the beginning of combat. And because she can cast only 11 spells per day. Monstrous Physique II lasts only 1 minute per level.
Strangely, she likes utility spells such as Expeditious Excavation, Mount, and Burrow. Spells are mostly a convenience for her. Bloodline powers are much more important.
I actually like that mindset, Like yeah spells are nice to have around but i dont need them to bash your face in....that said being able to actually fight a dragon on his level is always nice.(Enlarge person)
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Simplified -
Bloodrager = Self buffing high damage machine
Barbarian = Damage machine or Very High Damage with party buffs.
So the question then becomes: Is it worth having someone spend the rounds to buff the Barbarian vs some of the quick casting buffs the Bloodrager has?
Let me Just put it like this....
By level 11(Assuming arcane Bloodline), the Bloodrager is capable of having the effects of both haste/Displacement and any 1st or 2nd level spell on him all at once in addition to the rage bonus.So lets put it like this.
What happens when you combine Greater Bloodrage+Haste+Enlarge person+a really big sword to someones face? You get ded.
And the Bloodrager can do all this BY HIMSELF. With no need to jump through any loopholes.
So to answer your question, No imo it's not worth expecting someone to spend rounds to buff me, when i can just buff myself.
Guess that answers my OP.
the quote you have me saying is not my quote....losing the ability to trade out bad bloodline powers is something that's just not worth itI like the Bloodrager a lot, either as a dip or straight. That said, the Barbarian does have some advantages including more hit points, needing less attributes, and having many more archetypes.
if primalist is banned then there is no reason to go bloodrager.... if its not then bloodrager all the way unless there a particular build you want to pull off were barbarian would be betterEven with Primalist banned, I think the Bloodrager has several things to offer.
Celestial bloodline can be pretty sweet either as a dip or continuing. The Angelic Attacks at first level allows your weapons to be good aligned any time you blood rage. Your bonus spells are mostly buffs and the bonus feats include Iron Will. Since Bloodragers can be lawful, you can dip for this on a Paladin.
Both Aberrant and Abyssal bloodlines allow you to improve your reach at 4th level when raging -- one by basically getting Longarms spell and the other by basically giving you Enlarge Person.
Arcane bloodline has arguably one of the most powerful bloodline powers at 4th level -- your choice of one of four spells for as long as your bloodrage.
Better?
---------------Best result it really just to get the Bloodrager Pounce in some way.
A Barbarian 10/Sorcerer 10 is an idea. It actually has more spells per day than the Bloodrager but loses out on Caster Level and various other factors.
^A Barbarian 10/Sorcerer 10 also has some problems:
- Armor impairs casting, or eats feats and Swift Actions
- 3/4 BAB
- 1/2 caster level (and with a delay of 10 caster levels, Magical Knack only makes a just noticeable dent in that)
- 1/2 progression of Sorcerer Bloodline Powers
- Effectively d9 hit points except at 1st level
- No action economy savings to self-buff as you enter Rage
- Rage Power and feat tax to be able to cast while in Rage
- 1/2 Rage progression
- Although you (barely) get access to 5th level spells, you don't get any early entry spells like a 4/9 caster gets
Let me Just put it like this....
By level 11(Assuming arcane Bloodline), the Bloodrager is capable of having the effects of both haste/Displacement and any 1st or 2nd level spell on him all at once in addition to the rage bonus.So lets put it like this.
What happens when you combine Greater Bloodrage+Haste+Enlarge person+a really big sword to someones face? You get ded.
And the Bloodrager can do all this BY HIMSELF. With no need to jump through any loopholes.So to answer your question, No imo it's not worth expecting someone to spend rounds to buff me, when i can just buff myself.
Guess that answers my OP.
Haven't looked over Bloodrager much but um;
-You get Haste or Displacement not both according to the Ability.-You're still going need a self action or two for the rest of your spells.
Myself I'd probably go with Barbarian mainly because I see them more often and know what they can do on the tin. Sometimes I just wanna hit things.
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I actually like that mindset, Like yeah spells are nice to have around but i dont need them to bash your face in....that said being able to actually fight a dragon on his level is always nice.(Enlarge person)... my 16th-level bloodrager ... attacks like a barbarian, charging in raging rather than pausing to buff herself. Therefore, she prefers buff spells that last 10 minutes or 1 hour per level, such as Greater Magic Weapon, so that she can cast them at the beginning of the expedition rather than the beginning of combat. And because she can cast only 11 spells per day. Monstrous Physique II lasts only 1 minute per level.
Strangely, she likes utility spells such as Expeditious Excavation, Mount, and Burrow. Spells are mostly a convenience for her. Bloodline powers are much more important.
That mindset leaves me confused about this thread, because I see a lot of people arguing that the best class between barbarian and bloodrager is simply the one that deals the most damage in combat. They would not argue that way if someone asked, "Which is better, wizard or sorcerer?" Well, a bloodrager is part sorcerer.
In my party's third most recent combat encounter, my bloodrager's best contribution to the party was tagging teammates with Protection from Evil. That stopped several weaponless summoned devils from hitting her teammates while they found the BBEG. In the second most recent combat, she started in melee, but soon lost 90% of her hit points. She flew upward (Air Elemental bloodline) for her own protection and cast Scorching Ray for damage. In the most recent combat, she wasn't even there. As a high-Charisma character trained in both Diplomacy and Intimidate (and because she is an NPC), she volunteered to lead the evacuation of the civilians.
The best strenth of my wilderness-survival barbarian was her combination of Con 25 and Extra Rage feat. Our situation did not let the party retreat from the wilderness, nor could we necessarily get a good night's rest. But my barbarian was unstoppable. Only once, during the second battle of the night after a long day, did she run out of rounds of rage, and she still kept fighting while fatigued. Though another character landed the key blow (bleed damage on a DR 10 creature) that won the battle, my barbarian was the one who wore down a fresh enemy and provided a flank to permit that blow.
High damage is not the only way to benefit from a barbarian or bloodrager.
Neither the Barbarian or Bloodrager are really going to compare well to a skill class and/or a dedicated spellcaster. If you do youll find there is a massive gap.
But in terms of alternate combat forms, well a Bloodrager has the advantage because of the spells. Use haste or Fly.