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Malik Gyan Daumantas's page

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Silver Crusade

avr wrote:

Rogue not rouge. Unless all your talents are pink, or possibly related to makeup.

You may have some difficulty landing your dirty tricks later on, CMD scales faster than AC and you have 3/4 BAB and lack inspire courage or any other accuracy boost.

I'm not sure that underhanded trick gives you the prereqs for quick dirty trick. Weapon trick (one-handed) would have a similar effect though.

I still have access to dirge of doom, so that should help

Silver Crusade

I more or less have the idea down and i just wanted to know if there was something im missing.

Half Elf
Duel Minded:Iron Will
1:Weapon Finesse>Arcane Strike
Rouge Talent:Bonus Combat Feat 1:Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Scorpion Whip)
3:Extra Rouge Talent:Underhanded Trick(Improved Dirty trick and all its prerequisites)
5:Spellsong
Rouge Talent:Dampen Presence
7:Greater Dirty Trick
9:Quick Dirty Trick
Advanced Rouge Talent:Stalker Talent:Lethal Grace
11:Discordant Voice
13:Improved Dirge of Doom

Silver Crusade

So i'm finalizing the build for a bloodrager i have that focuses on vital strike, question is which route would be better?

Assuming the campaign ends at level 13 would it be better to go for cleaving smash, or Dreadful Carnage?

The idea being i can either build this bloodrager to cut a bloody swath through all enemies due to the extra reach and the fact that cleaving smash applies vital strike to cleave

or maximize the sheer one shot potential of vital strike and scare the piss out of everybody.

Both sound fun to play around with, but which one would be the most optimal route to go?

Silver Crusade

PossibleCabbage wrote:
Did you pre-clear "I'm going to blow you up, but you're good at dodging explosions right?" with the rogue?

Yeah.....I just didn't specify how big the blast would likely be.

It was admittedly only a rough guess on my part. How was i suppose to know the blast would literally turn them into ground beef?

Seriously there were body parts flying everywhere.

Silver Crusade

Kayerloth wrote:

Nothing in that description screams any particular alignment to me.

Unless its Clever/Tactical rather than Zerg/In-over-Head.

Thing is i talked to a lot of people about this very scenario, and many of them perceived the idea as almost insane and inconsiderate of my teammates.

Silver Crusade

So here's a senario that happened in a one shot i was in. Me and my group were exploring this dungeon, we come across a room filled with trogs, a head on fight would basically be impossible.

So i devised a plan, gave our party rogue(who has evasion) a bag, and told her to throw the contents of the bag at a concentrated group of trogs,the bag was filled with pellet grenades, I then cast a fireball spell which caused a chain reaction that pretty much cut their numbers in half(And yes the rogue got blasted back by the shockwave but survived),the remaining trogs then focused entirely on the explosion and followed the rogue into a funneled hallway where i then used CC spells like stone call and grasping tentacles to cover her escape, after which everyone else went in and mopped up the rest.

With this description, what alignment would you say such a character is?

Silver Crusade

I like both of these bloodlines and i cant decide which to pick for a build im working on, I like how strong abyssal makes you, but it comes at the cost of making you a walking target. While draconic is more balanced and gives you the ability to fly. Frankly i can't choose.

Silver Crusade

Klorox wrote:

Flurry in interesting in that it offers more attacks, ergo more chances to hit. As @Lelomenia pointed out, at higher levels the flurry penalty to hit disappears.

The real question is why a monk would actually focus on crane style if his goal is to attack accurately (with as high a bonus as possible)

Actually the idea is the opposite, would a monk that focus's on crane style even bother with flurry? That's the question.

Silver Crusade

RedRobe wrote:
Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:
Lelomenia wrote:
Core monk is often as accurate (lvl 5-8) or more so (lvl 9-20) in flurry.
Ok but that's not the question, would a crane style monk even bother using flurry is what i'm asking.
I don't have access to my books at the moment, so could you explain how it would be inaccurate?

Ok so long story short. Flurry of blows functions like two weapon fighting meaning that every attack takes a -2 to hit.

Crane style centers around one fighting defensively which if you have the feats take another -2 to hit meaning that every attack you have with flurry takes a -4,which makes it horrendously unreliable and even more so considering that the monk is a 3/4th bab class.

And no, you can't take combat style master because crane style is one of those styles where you can't swap out on the fly cause then it will be even more inaccurate since fighting defensively lasts until the start of your next turn.

So with this in mind would a crane style user just ignore flurry entirely?

Silver Crusade

Lelomenia wrote:
Core monk is often as accurate (lvl 5-8) or more so (lvl 9-20) in flurry.

Ok but that's not the question, would a crane style monk even bother using flurry is what i'm asking.

Silver Crusade

Would he just not use it or something, due to how inaccurate it would likely be?

Silver Crusade

Personally i rather like the idea of a high ac spell sword dancing around the battlefield like an agility blitzer, but some people I've talked to don't like it due to how it very much limited your use of spell combat.

What do you guys think?

Silver Crusade

Slim Jim wrote:
Malik Gyan Daumantas wrote:

Clever Wordplay

Reactionary
World Traveler(Diplomacy)
and Magical Lineage(Frostbite)

Unless your GM is always bouncing you off the same recalcitrant royalty-level NPCs, you can get most of your Magus Diplo needs off a different class skill:

<after "face" PC blows it> "Eh, excuse me, but let's try it my way. You there. Muggle. Yeah, you. See this hand?" <finger-waggle> I'm going to need you to talk to the hand." <whoosh!> "Right *now*, if you please, and I know you aim to please, because you're my pal...."

-- Take Bruising Intellect, thereby saving two traits, and thus a feat.

That's not a bad idea but....i just find diplomacy more versatile, due to its gather info aspect, it allows me to kinda do my own side investigations during downtime and it keeps me from making too many enemies. Thought it would be a more...direct approach wouldn't it?

Silver Crusade

Clever Wordplay
Reactionary
World Traveler(Diplomacy)
and Magical Lineage(Frostbite)

I'll here you out but you may have already given me my answer.

Silver Crusade

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

It would really depend on the full build and archetypes chosen.

Arcane strike, flamboyant, another spell blending, lingering pain.

Lots of direction to go.

Well i intend to just go bladebound then get spellshield, accurate strike, hasted assault and reflection.

And i always thought arcane strike was terrible for magi, due to how much it would be competing with your other swift actions.

Silver Crusade

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

Buy Gloves of Elvenkind.

+5 bonus to concentration checks.

Take the trait Focused Mind

+2 bonus to concentration checks.

I've found Focused Mind is usually sufficient to make spell combat reliable. The gloves tend to be overkill by the time you can afford them, but still better than burning a feat on Combat Casting.

Problem focused mind is a magic trait and i plan to get magical lineage for frostbite, and you're right it probably is overkill. But i cant figure out what else to replace combat casting with you got any ideas?

Silver Crusade

So a while back i was working on a magus build that i would enjoy playing, and i thought i had it down pact but recent events forced me to look back on it and now i've come down to 2 Feat paths(Both builds are human and both go up to level 13)

1.Caster Path
Iron will
Bonus Human Feat:Additional Traits
Combat casting
Bonus Magus Feat:Rime Spell
Amateur Investigator
Intensified Spell
Studied Combatant
Bonus Magus Feat:Piercing Spell
Extra Arcana(Spell Blending:Emergency Force Sphere)
Improved Studied Combatant

I like this spell over all as it gives both firepower and versatility, You're almost assured to pass upclose concentration checks. But i have 2 very big issues that bug me, First is defenses don't scale as high as i would like since this build is way more reliant in armor for decent ac, but the big issue is, while most may say it isn't an issue. If you get caught in a situation where you can't use magic you're kinda screwed unless you're really good at thinking on your feat since this build path is very reliant on spells to do proper damage(Primary spell being frostbite)

2.Martial Path
Dodge
Bonus Human Feat:Additional Traits
Combat casting
Bonus Magus Feat:Crane Style
Amateur Investigator
Crane Wing
Studied Combatant
Bonus Magus Feat:Crane Riposte
Extra Arcana(Spell Blending:Emergency Force Sphere)
Improved Studied Combatant

This one is much more combat proficient and won't be cause with their pants down in the case of any sort of anti magic shenanigans(You say it won't happen, I've seen dm's pull this if they feel the team is too reliant on magic.) I used a wayfinder embedded with a deep red sphere to get the Improved unarmed strike proficiency needed.

Downside to this path however is, well.....spell combat is basically useless until level 11 as the negatives you take to your attack bonus end up being just too big to use spell combat reliably.

So between these 2 who has the better chance of making it to level 13?

Silver Crusade

A lot of them are good, but i can't decide which one is the best.

Silver Crusade

Cavall wrote:
I like the second one. You'll find archery has a massive investment that requires focus right off the bat.

Really? cause i tend to find that all you really need is pointblank shot and precise shot and you are generally good as a bard.

Silver Crusade

So I came up with 2 more builds per the suggestion of the people above

Duel Minded:Iron Will
1:Point Blank Shot
Bonus Feat:Spellsong
3:Spell Focus(Illusion)
5:Precise Shot
7:Extended Arcana(2 Dance Masterpieces)
9:Improved Dirge of Doom
11:Discordant Voice
13:Greater Spell Focus(Illusion)

This one imo covers all my bases, Combat competency as well as utility

Though I'm sure I'm missing something

Skill Focus(Disguise)
1:Steadfast Personality
Bonus Feat:Spellsong
3:Eldritch Heritage(Rakshasa)
5:Spell Focus(Illusion)
7:Extended Arcana(2 Dance Masterpieces)
9:Improved Dirge of Doom
11:Improved Eldritch Heritage(Rakshasa)
13:Greater Spell Focus(Illusion)

This one sounds really fun as it takes the social aspects and amps it up to 100 while still having good utility.....there is just one problem i have. Until this character hits like level 6 or 7 they are completely useless outside of a pure support role. Which is annoying to me. But if it's better then the first one i can try and live with it.

Silver Crusade

MageHunter wrote:
Between Iron Will and Elven immunities your will save should be fine.

Ok I'll whip up something new hold on

Silver Crusade

deuxhero wrote:
You're making a charismatic half-elf that doesn't take Eldritch Heritage?

It's a good point question is which one? Plus I feel i need the bonus to will saves least at the start.

Silver Crusade

So I've actually had A Brazen Deceiver/Sound Striker Bard on the back burner that is mostly done. Thing is I actually came up with 2 Different Routes She could take and I'm not sure which one is better over all. So which one do you think is better?

Path 1
Duel Minded:Iron Will
1:Point-Blank Shot
Bonus Feat:Spellsong
3:Precise Shot
5:Steadfast Personality
7:Extended Arcana(2 Dance Masterpieces)
9:Improved Dirge of Doom
11:Discordant Voice
13:Extra Performance

or

Duel Minded:Iron Will
1:Point-Blank Shot
Bonus Feat:Spellsong
3:Precise Shot
5:Spell Focus(Illusion)
7:Extended Arcana(2 Dance Masterpieces)
9:Improved Dirge of Doom
11:Spell Specialization(Shadow Conjuration)
13:Spell Specialization(Shadow Evocation)

Silver Crusade

Irontruth wrote:

Quiggong pairs really well with Sensei monk as well.

At 12th level, you can cast Restoration on the entire party for 2 ki points. When I played one I actually served as the primary healer for the party with just advice and ki points. It was expensive to heal one person by a lot of hit points, but it was cheap to heal everyone. Someone with a wand is still very useful to save you some ki points, but with a Sensei build, you typically pump Wisdom pretty hard, and Extra Ki is a feat you might end up with more than once.

My melee was lackluster. Without flurry, you only get a couple relevant attacks, ever. Your damage is pretty meh. I had a very, very good AC though, which meant it was my job to just keep providing flanking for whoever needed it, or provide body blocking for squishy spell casters. If I won initiative, I'd run right up to an enemy to prevent it from charging anyone.

It's still a pretty limited character in a lot of ways, but it breaks a few rules in really cool ways without being overpowered.

Well my idea would fall more along the lines of being a mundane healer who primarily heals outside of battle, with an emphasis in mantis style to kind of signify their knowledge of biology and anatomy.

Silver Crusade

At first i thought this was pretty clear cut, one has magic and the other doesn't case closed right? Well the more i compared the 2 the less it became clear cut, Because it became clear that the sacred fist needs divine favor and divine power just to keep up with the unchained monk in terms of BAB. Not to mention the amount of styles you have access to is limited since sacred fist doesn't have stunning fist naturally. Ad that to the fact that most of the sacred fists best spells are buffs anyway. And suddenly these 2 look rather comparable, in fact i've felt before that sacred fist is a straight downgrade to an unarmed warpriest.

But what do you guys think?

Silver Crusade

Now you would think this would be an open and shut case due to the advantage of having magic and self buffing....but honestly I would argue that it's the sacred fist's only real advantage and since most of it's spells are buffs the gap isn't as wide.

Not to mention that the only styles a sacred fist can get without dipping is like Crane, pummeling, snapping turtle, etc. Point is not that many.

And personally if you can't make a class or archtype work without dipping its not very good. Not to mention Quiggong monks do have spell like options albeit somewhat limited but they are there.

So is sacred fist still better then a quiggong monk or is it more up in the air then a lot of people like to say it is?

Silver Crusade

Pretty much the title.

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:

Why do people think bladebound has less arcane pool points? Sure, some of them are more restricted in use, but the total of the black blade and its magus' arcane pools are about the same as a normal magus.

Though I guess you are restricted to enchant weapon or spell recall, the black blade can cover some of the uses of the former whichever you choose.

Its more you have the same amount of Pool points but how you can use the ones in the black blade are much more limiting.

Silver Crusade

And this is precisely why I advice choosing either enchant weapon or spell recall in the event you have long adventuring days.

I also made this guide under that pretense because shorter days means full casters, can just spam spells with complete abandon

And that causes it's own mess of problems.

Silver Crusade

@Mr Charisma Well this might be just me personally, but i generally found that You either have to focus on spell recall or Enchant weapon to make your character effective.

Regardless of whether or not you go Dex or Int Magus. If you try to use both you will burn through your Arcane pool points so fast you wont have any left. And that's assuming you DON'T get some of the arcana that also use pool points.

Silver Crusade

MrCharisma wrote:

So I just had a read through your "Tactics" page and I have to say I completely disagree with your rundown of the 2 sub-types and their tactics.

You make it seem like the Melee Magus can't use spell-recall and can't
prepare utility spells (and has to go Kensai for some reason).
Conversely you've turned the Caster Magus into a sub-par wizard with some defensive abilities.
I don't quite understand why you're specialising so heavily into one stat and completely ignoring the other stat with both builds. More importantly you seem to be completely ignoring some of the class-features with both builds.

It's mostly because i wanted to focus on the more important ones Bonus feats, and knowledge pool are nice but imo take a back seat. And I seldom see you using any heavier then light armor in 80% of cases so armor upgrades are kind of a moot point. And fighter training in general is just....meh to me

As for Counterstrike, Greater spell access and True magus, come on when was the last time you ever played a campaign where any of these abilities ended up being a large factor?

This is why I never understood why they put greater spell access so high? If you got it at level 13 or something. It would be amazing, but as it stands now it's pretty much pointless in most campaigns since you will likely never go long enough to get it. In fact I think there's like only 1 adventure path that goes up to level 20 and that's the mystic campaign "wrath of the righteous"

As for the sub-par caster thing......no. Just No. That's assuming The magus would do nothing but stay in the backline and cast spells, when in reality he would play more like aqua from kingdom hearts birth by sleep. Very spell heavy to be sure, but plenty capable of getting in your face.

Besides comparing something to a wizard is a fallacy since you could say why should i play "Insert class here" instead of a wizard and it would work.

This might say a lot about my character, but the only time i would ever play a wizard, is if i want to make everyone else at my table feel useless.

Silver Crusade

Zolanoteph wrote:
Dark Midian wrote:

Don't we already have a magus guide that's basically the guideline for magus guides?

Kurald Galain's Magus Guide

I get a little nervous around orthodoxy and faith in established experts. As someone with a somewhat different opinion of all things Magus I'd like to think there's room for a million different opinions.

That said, I had some problems with my brief glance through this guide. For one, the strength based Magus seems to be undervalued, which is a bit unfortunate. True, having lower AC, initiative and reflex saves and needing to survive until level 7 for medium armor on a melee character with 8 sided hit die seems suicidal and reckless but at the same time if you survive that climb the view from the mountaintop is glorious.

The real mechanical advantage of the STR Magus (aside from the aesthetic advantage not being the same dancing scimitar wielding clown as every other Magus) is the fact that you save yourself from taking dervish dance and weapon finesse, affording yourself two extra feats which is critical because you're basically a magical fighter with far fewer feats. This allows you to specialize in things like tripping (the Magus is one of the best classes in the game for this) which already involve feat taxes and ongoing investment.

Not to mention, if you actually care about carrying capacity it's good to have a strength score. It often happens that these clever and "optimized" builds would literally struggle to walk with loot.

This is why i also said no matter which route you go with, never have a strength score lower then 12. You will be able to carry anything you need until you get your hands on a handy havarsack.

Also you might enjoy the staff magus as i find you basically have to play it like a STR/INT hybrid to reach its max potential.

And this is why i generally recommend the cutlass over the scimitar, much more RP friendly.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Alright slight update added a "Tactics" page.

Silver Crusade

Paradozen wrote:

Interesting read here, don't see a lot of magus guides with a caster-focus. I'd be interested to see your opinion on the Armored Battlemage magus.

I'd suggest the addition of alchemical grease to the miscellaneous items, mostly because they are already at a CMD disadvantage v. full BAB classes and have a lot shut down by getting grappled. Spell combat is lost (needs 2 hands), spellcasting in general is really difficult (especially at lower levels), escaping normally means dealing with a likely sub-par CMB, etc. Also, a lot of monsters have grab, which makes grapple a fairly common ability.

I didn't add Alchemical Grease Mostly because 1. You need to know its coming for it to be useful. And B as late as it is, if you really needed a way out of a grapple you could use dimension door to get out easily.

I can see where you're coming from, but you would still need to know that it can grab you, and you just happen to have some on hand. Basically you would need a lot of pre prep for alchemical grease to be useful.

Silver Crusade

Dave Justus wrote:

Interesting. I disagree with almost everything you have in the guide.

I think that is probably because you see the best use of the Magus being caster focused, and I see it as combat focused.

Yes, spell recall is pretty cool, but if I want a focused caster it is still going to be a 9th level caster. Even with your spell recall I'll probably have more spells, and I'll buy a few pearls of power if need be. My best spells will have higher DCs than your will as well.

All that said, I think the caster focused magus is an interesting concept, and I think it worth exploring, and it isn't something I really see. If I was you, I would re-write the guide for trying to be a general magus guide to being a guide for the caster-focused magus, how to build then and what tactics you use and all of that. I think that would be more useful to more people.

Very good, Didn't think anyone would notice that right away. It's as you say, i think the idea of a caster focused magus is highly underestimated. I am content with how it is at the moment, but you're right i should look back and rewrite it to emphasize my avocation for a caster focused magus.

I also tend to make my characters under the assumption that i wont be able to go to ye old magic mart every time i finish a dungeon or a quest i tried that once and i instantly regretted it.

I can make a few additions talking about the tactics such a character would use however.

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:
One thing about the wand wielder arcana. A wand of true strike is possible and cheap. True strike + spell combat = +18 to your first attack each round (which will also ignore concealment). Especially recommended for combat maneuvers which can replace attacks, like trip.

Oh I agree that is useful, i still would only recommend wand wielder for the staff magus. I simply see very little reason any other type of magus would get wand wielder as it would just become very unwieldy imo. Again far from a bad choice and people are more then welcome to do otherwise.

Also changed situational from orange to purple if that's ok.

And the only reason i made 6 categories was for the must picks, there are very few things that i considered absolutely required so you wouldn't see that color often.

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:

The colour choices are a little difficult - blue & royal blue look similar, as do gold & orange. I imagine they're worse for the colour blind.

You talk a bit about dimensional agility, but if that's as far as you plan to go in that feat line - you don't need it. Spell combat has you covered.

You mention celestial healing but not the better, infernal variant?

Due to Aroden's spellsword being something you only have cast when you're expecting trouble, and being a 3rd level spell (magi have free 3rd level spell slots about what, 9th level?), I much prefer actually having metamagic feats. There are a few other things I disagree on but that's the big one.

What color choices would you suggest?

I was under the impression you needed dimensional agility to even use it with spell combat.

Not gonna lie, that one is more i just dont like the evil vibe of infernal.

and i get the feat thing but with some builds like i like to do you generally don't have the room. So its a good idea to get some of them in rod form.

Silver Crusade

MrCharisma wrote:

Seems like a decently written guide. I disagree with some of the ratings you've given (Greensting Slayer is green but you don't even mention Hexcrafter? Crazy man) but it's your guide, so you can rate them how you want. I did like that you're trying to take the class away from the crit-fishing.

One thing, the plural of Magus is Magi.

Archetypes wrote:
Base class is fine enough, But sometimes you just wanna spice things up. Thankfully there are enough archetypes that no 2 magus’s are ever exactly the same.

Oh i knew i was forgetting something. Personally i dont like it cause it gets rid of spell recall, but ill add it in real quick.

Silver Crusade

fearcypher wrote:
(Su) abilities are not subject to dispel magic, so you may want to change the lines in here that suggest otherwise.

Oh where did i miss that?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The Path of Spell and Sword

Ok so after working on this for months I finally finished my magus guide, admittedly this ended up becoming more of a personal reference log then anything else, but even so i hope someone finds some use out of this.

And yes i know its animu as hell....don't judge me.

Silver Crusade

Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Most of the non-mind-affecting Will saves mentioned the last time you asked this are probably still non-mind-affecting Will saves....

No need to get snarky

Silver Crusade

I remember someone telling me that steadfast personality isn't very good because it only works against mind affecting.
But I gotta wonder what will saves aren't mind affecting? I imagine you would be hard pressed to find them.

Silver Crusade

Nomad Sage wrote:
Quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon. How could you work in the wand every round? I'm probably missing some vital detail.

Wand wielder works for wands AND staffs so you would basically be using the staff you already are using one handed.

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:

Power attack only requires you to enhance one end of the quarterstaff for full effect, TWF requires both. Also you could use PA on the same round as spell combat if you have a way to cancel the penalty - furious focus or blade tutor's spirit. OTOH a multitouch spell like frostbite may like the extra opportunities to connect with TWF.

Though why and how are you going for either? Tripping can eat every feat you have and then some, besides the metamagic or other magic feats a magus wants. The damage bonus is relatively low for PA on a 3/4 BAB character and TWF adds attacks slowly for the same reason.

Cause right now my build has Dirty Fighting, Improved and greater trip, Weapon focus and specialization power attack and craft staff and i dont know where to go from here

This is the feat list i have cause i know im missing something.

Bonus class Feat:Quarterstaff Master
1. Dirty Fighting
Bonus Feat: Improved Trip
3.
Bonus Feat: Weapon focus(Quarterstaff)
5. Weapon specialization(Quarterstaff)
7. Power Attack
9.Greater Trip
Bonus Feat:Craft Staff
11.
13.
15

Silver Crusade

A Power Attack Route or a Two weapon Fighting Route? (This is on top of a trip build BTW)

Silver Crusade

avr wrote:
Crane style, obviously.

Ok should have clarified one that works well with combat style master swapping.

Silver Crusade

All i know of are Snake style and Snapping turtle style. Are there anymore?

Silver Crusade

Derklord wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:
I expect most GMs won't allow a style feat to be used if you aren't in the style.

Sure, a GM is able to do that. A GM could also say that Wizards can only cast spells that start with an "e". Both of these would be houserules with absolutely no basis on actual rules.

Dave Justus wrote:
I am fairly confident that if this was every clarified by Piazo they would rule in that direction.

Maybe. Maybe not. The author of the Sohei didn't intend flurry to work while wearing armor, but the PDT ruled that it works as written. The author of the Invulnerable Rager intended that the Improved Damage Reduction works for the archetype, but the PDT ruled that the very literal interpretation of the wording is the correct one.

Meanwhile, the authors of Snake Style et al. put the "while in this style" part in the middle, which, to me, shows that they intended it to only be true for the part that comes after (especially since that parts before it are generally numeric bonuses). And that is more than enough proof for me that those authors presumed that there was no general rule that style feats require the style to function at all.

Seriously, we're talking about one of the weakest fighting styles in the game, on some of the weakest classes in the game. Are those unarmed Brawlers and cMonks so game breaking that you have to make up rules to nerf them? And then people wonder why so many play carbon copy builds of two-handed martials or archers.

Trust me i get how frustrating it is,I'm trying to make a sacred fist warpriest work despite knowing the standard war priest is just so much better combat wise. Problem being I REALLY want that monk vibe for this character or i fear it wont make much sense combat wise.

Silver Crusade

Derklord wrote:

It should be noted that you don't need to be in the stance for Pummeling Style to function, so you could stack it on top of a different style chain. That doesn't work for Pummeling Charge, of course. For the inevitable haters: Yes, it does work that way, there's absolutely nothing in the rules preventing style feats from working just like other feats. It has been discussed often enough, without a single piece of evidence to the contrary.

For Brawler or cMonk, I rate it as 10 (due to Pummeling Charge) - I'd never build an unarmed one without it. Not that I would build one with it, but that's not the topic. If Pummeling Charge isn't needed, I'd say it's a 7 (higher if your campaign contains a lot of damage type based DR, lower if your GM doesn't like DR).

I'm afraid i don't follow. I've always been under the impression that Snake Style, Pummeling style, Crane style all that. You have to be in combat and you have to spend a swift action to get the benefits. Are you saying that's no the case?

Silver Crusade

Sadly I really love spell recall, I'm not giving that up for anything.

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