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Each volume will be the same size as normal (96 pages), but rather than have three six-page support articles, each installment will only have two support articles. That extra 6 pages will be going to the adventure, which over the course of 6 volumes gets us an additional 36 pages of adventure.
Which, when combined with some other shenanigans in information presentation, SHOULD be enough room for us to do an AP that goes all the way to 20th level.
I was just reading/posting in a thread earlier today asking about how few campaigns people have been in that run to 20th level.
Any chance this new scheme you mentioned above could be used for other, future APs? I ask b/c it's slightly odd to have classes built for 20 levels, complete w/ capstone abilities, and then very little published support to ever reach those upper levels.
What you're planning for this AP at least will be very satisfying in that regard; so thanks in advance.
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After 2 and a half years of not having a subscription, between War for the Crown and this, you've got my sub for a year, at least. YAY!
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Any chance this new scheme you mentioned above could be used for other, future APs? I ask b/c it's slightly odd to have classes built for 20 levels, complete w/ capstone abilities, and then very little published support to ever reach those upper levels.
It's certainly possible, ESPECIALLY if folks react well to it and don't miss having 3 support articles. The longer adventures DO mean that they're more difficult to develop and produce, though, which will mean that the developers of such adventure paths will need to work harder. Hopefully it will be worth it!
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It's certainly possible, ESPECIALLY if folks react well to it and don't miss having 3 support articles. The longer adventures DO mean that they're more difficult to develop and produce, though, which will mean that the developers of such adventure paths will need to work harder. Hopefully it will be worth it!Any chance this new scheme you mentioned above could be used for other, future APs? I ask b/c it's slightly odd to have classes built for 20 levels, complete w/ capstone abilities, and then very little published support to ever reach those upper levels.
Fingers crossed, then. Thanks James.
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ohhhh, geat news, exactly what I hoped for. I'm beyond excited
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Considering comments in other threads, I take it that this one won't have any support for Mythic?
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And another AP that I won't be canceling my subscription over.
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Considering comments in other threads, I take it that this one won't have any support for Mythic?
For players, very unlikely.
For GMs, absolutely. Several of the NPCs in Return of the Runelords will be mythic characters.
Exactly how a group of non-Mythic PCs are expected to deal with Mythic threats is a relatively major part of the Adventure Path overall.
A GM could adapt this AP for mythic PCs, but that's no different than any AP really. If a GM is comfortable with Mythic rules, any AP can handle giving the PCs a mythic tier or two or however many the GM wants to deal with.
But no, Return of the Runelords will NOT assume the PCs ever become mythic themselves.
(At this time. Things can change. I'll let folks know if they do, of course!)
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Peacock Spirit! Woohoo! Finally getting some more info on the mystery of that, I presume.
ETA: I see that there are no Mythic plans for this, but I'd like to at least echo my thoughts in another thread that perhaps this would be a good place to at least showcase some of the flexibility of the Mythic rules in allowing just a few- or even temporary- Mythic levels.
I also hope that this AP features some inter-Runelord rivalry, rather than just have the PCs go up against them individually or have them all teaming up together.
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Peacock Spirit! Woohoo! Finally getting some more info on the mystery of that, I presume.
ETA: I see that there are no Mythic plans for this, but I'd like to at least echo my thoughts in another thread that perhaps this would be a good place to at least showcase some of the flexibility of the Mythic rules in allowing just a few- or even temporary- Mythic levels.
I also hope that this AP features some inter-Runelord rivalry, rather than just have the PCs go up against them individually or have them all teaming up together.
Indeed... pretty much ALL of the hidden secrets about the Peacock Spirit, including some I've kept secret since the start, will be revealed in this Adventure Path.
As for Mythic, sorry. The toxicity revolving around Wrath of the Righteous, another AP I'd been looking forward to doing for years, has pretty much convinced me to avoid using Mythic rules at all for players. It'll be in there for NPCs, as mentioned above, but that's it. Feel free to add Mythic stuff for your players if you want.
I very VERY much want folks to enjoy this as a (hopefully!) very fun and exciting conclusion to the Runelord story arc I've been working on for close to a decade, and I want people to be excited about the plot and the revelations and the encounters and the NPCs and all the rest WITHOUT having to have a huge black pall of downer looming over it all, which is what the negative feedback on Wrath of the Righteous did. No thanks.
The inter-runelord action will be very important to the plot, in any event.
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As for Mythic, sorry. The toxicity revolving around Wrath of the Righteous, another AP I'd been looking forward to doing for years, has pretty much convinced me to avoid using Mythic rules at all for players. It'll be in there for NPCs, as mentioned above, but that's it. Feel free to add Mythic stuff for your players if you want.
Understandable, if disappointing. I was hoping it could be included along the lines of giving the PCs a boost, sort of like how there were a lot of events/items that could be picked up and integrated to help combat the BBEG in Age of Worms, for example. I'm assuming something like that will be included, albeit non-mythic (based on your prior post upthread), so I may just alter that to include Mythic rules.
Good to hear about the Peacock Spirit and the Runelord rivalries, in any event.
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will the Runelord of Sloth Krune be reprinted here or is he assumed to have been slain by the pathfinder's?
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Oh man. I'm currently running Shattered Star after having run Rise of the Runelords, and I was planning on making a homebrew (quite literally titled "Return of the Rise of the Runelords") in about a year's time, but then you guys go and drop this! I can't tell if I'm ecstatic or a little disappointed.
My wonder is which of the Runelords are finally going to find themselves given stats in this adventure. With Mr. Jacobs aboard, I can't help but feel that we'll finally find out how much of a threat Sorshen really is.
Also, any chance that this will be runnable in a world where Karzoug didn't die at the end of Rise?
Return of the Runelords assumes Karzoug is dead at the start. In fact, him being dead is a pretty important plot point.
As for which runelords get stats...
** spoiler omitted **
That's a pretty good way to get us excited! Stats! Stats for all the lords!
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While I was hoping to face the likes of Geb and Nex, I'm completely more interested in this AP than I'm interested in the first AP of the year.
And knowing this is meant to be the final showdown with the runelords makes me wonder how many secrets of the setting are we getting to finally unveil... *-*
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.
Sure can, all it takes a bit of elbow grease.
At the end of RotRL I'm presuming 20th level is attained and the PCs are all fat and happy.
A few years later, they go into Shattered Star. Leave it as-written for the most part. No XP for everything CR 9 and under.
Then you go "E-20" (1 million XP per goodie/feat/whatever you're comfortable with them picking up as extras). If you're comfortable with level advancement past 20th, then charge oh, 2mxp or so per level advanced after 20th or whatever you're comfortable with. The loot is largely scrap for 20th level characters, so encourage them to donate proceeds except as necessary to pay for costly M components for restoration and so on.
Once they reach the end of Shattered Star they have a few more years of relative peace and quiet before Return of the Runelords fires up. Same thing - no XP until they start accomplishing CR 10+ stuff, yadda yadda etc et al.
If you want to incorporate Mythic stuff, I'd not recommend much of it, maybe the finale of Shattered Star doles out Mythic tier 1. Dole it out during Return, if you're of the mind to do so.
Sound good? :)
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Personally, I'm really excited to FINALLY be able to finish up the "Runelords" trilogy. "Return of the Runelords" contains some plot elements that I've been eager to explore pretty much since day one of Pathfinder, back when I was working on Rise of the Runelords. I've been dropping hints and foreshadowing and other things about a lot of the stuff that's gonna take place in this AP for decades. Gonna be really fun to see how it all works out!How much of the AP is spent in Varisia?Most of it.
** spoiler omitted **
Awesome. Varisia is my favourite bit of Golarion.
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.Sure can, all it takes a bit of elbow grease.
At the end of RotRL I'm presuming 20th level is attained and the PCs are all fat and happy.
A few years later, they go into Shattered Star. Leave it as-written for the most part. No XP for everything CR 9 and under.
Then you go "E-20" (1 million XP per goodie/feat/whatever you're comfortable with them picking up as extras). If you're comfortable with level advancement past 20th, then charge oh, 2mxp or so after 20th or whatever you're comfortable with. The loot is largely scrap for 20th level characters, so encourage them to donate proceeds except as necessary to pay for costly M components for restoration and so on.
Once they reach the end of Shattered Star they have a few more years of relative peace and quiet before Return of the Runelords fires up. Same thing - no XP until they start accomplishing CR 10+ stuff, yadda yadda etc et al.
Sound good? :)
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
Rise of the Runelords Book 1
Shattered Star Book 1
Return of the Runelords Book 1
Rise of the Runelords Book 2
Shattered Star Book 2
Return of the Runelords Book 2
Rise of the Runelords Book 3
Shattered Star Book 3
Return of the Runelords Book 3
Rise of the Runelords Book 4
Shattered Star Book 4
Return of the Runelords Book 4
Rise of the Runelords Book 5
Shattered Star Book 5
Return of the Runelords Book 5
Rise of the Runelords Book 6
Shattered Star Book 6
Return of the Runelords Book 6
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.There kind of will be, but you'll need to wait a year to see what exactly we've got planned for Return of the Runelords to know how!
Well, well, well ... *squinty-eyed stare* ... looking forward to seeing that sidebar. :)
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.Sure can, all it takes a bit of elbow grease.
At the end of RotRL I'm presuming 20th level is attained and the PCs are all fat and happy.
A few years later, they go into Shattered Star. Leave it as-written for the most part. No XP for everything CR 9 and under.
Then you go "E-20" (1 million XP per goodie/feat/whatever you're comfortable with them picking up as extras). If you're comfortable with level advancement past 20th, then charge oh, 2mxp or so after 20th or whatever you're comfortable with. The loot is largely scrap for 20th level characters, so encourage them to donate proceeds except as necessary to pay for costly M components for restoration and so on.
Once they reach the end of Shattered Star they have a few more years of relative peace and quiet before Return of the Runelords fires up. Same thing - no XP until they start accomplishing CR 10+ stuff, yadda yadda etc et al.
Sound good? :)
I was thinking something more along the lines of:
Rise of the Runelords Book 1
Shattered Star Book 1
Return of the Runelords Book 1Rise of the Runelords Book 2
Shattered Star Book 2
Return of the Runelords Book 2Rise of the Runelords Book 3
Shattered Star Book 3
Return of the Runelords Book 3Rise of the Runelords Book 4
Shattered Star Book 4
Return of the Runelords Book 4Rise of the Runelords Book 5
Shattered Star Book 5
Return of the Runelords Book 5Rise of the Runelords Book 6
Shattered Star Book 6
Return of the Runelords Book 6
hrmmmm ... thinking that we'll both be awaiting that particular sidebar (above) DM Dudemeister. :)
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Will we get some more insight into developments in how Varisia's cities have developed since RotRL and S* (I assume those are the first two installments of the "Runelords Trilogy")?
Yes.
Return of the Runelords takes place about a decade after Rise of the Runelords and about 5 years after Shattered Star, but before Jade Regent (although if you've run Jade Regent in your game, that won't really impact your Return of the Runelords game much at all).
THIS is canonical information I've wanted for a loooooonnnnnnggggg time!
Hits my "good feels" buttons! XD
That means that we'll be seeing how the events of those two previous APs have impacted Varisia. You will be visiting Magnimar, Riddleport, Korvosa, Sandpoint, and Kaer Maga during the AP in any event.
YUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Oh man. I'm currently running Shattered Star after having run Rise of the Runelords, and I was planning on making a homebrew (quite literally titled "Return of the Rise of the Runelords") in about a year's time, but then you guys go and drop this! I can't tell if I'm ecstatic or a little disappointed.
My wonder is which of the Runelords are finally going to find themselves given stats in this adventure. With Mr. Jacobs aboard, I can't help but feel that we'll finally find out how much of a threat Sorshen really is.
Also, any chance that this will be runnable in a world where Karzoug didn't die at the end of Rise?
Return of the Runelords assumes Karzoug is dead at the start. In fact, him being dead is a pretty important plot point.
As for which runelords get stats...
** spoiler omitted **
(YUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS)*n
for a given value of n = #RL statted!
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The iconics will be the swashbuckler, the witch, the oracle, and the medium. And likely the fighter, the sorcerer, the rogue, and the cleric. And maybe even the ranger, the barbarian, and the alchemist.
And SOME elements from the comics will play into it, yes.
It assumes those two adventure paths have taken place, which is the same assumption we made for Shattered Star. And since Return of the Runelords is a sequel to Shattered Star... well, there ya go.
Yeah, I'm developing this. Along with "Cradle of Night" (which I'm also writing the bulk of) and "Construct Handbook" and another big project that should be announced some time soon during Gen Con.
It does assume Crimson Throne has happened, yes.
There WILL be sidebars here and there that will provide aid and suggestions on how to adjust things like this if things played out differently in your game. I wouldn't be surprised to see this information end up in each volume's Foreword... so make sure not to ignore them!
It's like everything you're posting is everything I've ever wanted to hear!
Considering comments in other threads, I take it that this one won't have any support for Mythic?For players, very unlikely.
... except for this!
But that's entirely understandable, considering the circumstances, and I'm hyped about the myriad of other possibilities to come!
(At this time. Things can change. I'll let folks know if they do, of course!)
Also: totally want you guys to enjoy (and recognizing the already-stupidly-hard-work you put in), I'll keep my finger's crossed!
Holy carp, War of the Crown and now this: daggum you're all on fire!
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Peacock Spirit! Woohoo! Finally getting some more info on the mystery of that, I presume.
ETA: I see that there are no Mythic plans for this, but I'd like to at least echo my thoughts in another thread that perhaps this would be a good place to at least showcase some of the flexibility of the Mythic rules in allowing just a few- or even temporary- Mythic levels.
I also hope that this AP features some inter-Runelord rivalry, rather than just have the PCs go up against them individually or have them all teaming up together.
Indeed... pretty much ALL of the hidden secrets about the Peacock Spirit, including some I've kept secret since the start, will be revealed in this Adventure Path.
D-d-dang it, James. Every time I don't think I can get more hyped.
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Peacock Spirit! Woohoo! Finally getting some more info on the mystery of that, I presume.
ETA: I see that there are no Mythic plans for this, but I'd like to at least echo my thoughts in another thread that perhaps this would be a good place to at least showcase some of the flexibility of the Mythic rules in allowing just a few- or even temporary- Mythic levels.
I also hope that this AP features some inter-Runelord rivalry, rather than just have the PCs go up against them individually or have them all teaming up together.
Indeed... pretty much ALL of the hidden secrets about the Peacock Spirit, including some I've kept secret since the start, will be revealed in this Adventure Path.D-d-dang it, James. Every time I don't think I can get more hyped.
Agreed! I've been aflame with curiosity - as have others - about the Peacock Spirit, the Black Monk's monastery and so many other things since 2009'ish.
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.There kind of will be, but you'll need to wait a year to see what exactly we've got planned for Return of the Runelords to know how!
James Jacobs you clever dinosaur! I'll be very interested to see what that's about.
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.
No no no. You run it like Mass Effect. Your players play through the first one, succeed, and go off to get ready for the rise of the other Rune Lords, but die and then get resurrected 10 years later with the option of changing classes.
When is this one scheduled to come out?
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Ooh, goody! I sure hope my guesses about the Peacock Spirit and other background stuff end up being right (or at least similar to what James Jacobs ended up having in mind)!
Even though I'm finally GMing Rise, I still want to make PCs through all 3 APs - even having new PCs being inspired or mentored by the old ones!
I wonder if the seven swords of sin will have a mention in Return, beyond one or more in the hands of a late-game minion. I just love the idea (and am working it into my home game) of collecting all of them, bringing them to Runeforge to reforge them with virtue, and showing them co-operating against a single runelord; showing them how wrong they were, and what Emperor Xin originally intended.
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I envy the people who have the time and commitment from a group of players to ask about a way of stringing all 3 together !
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Wow oh wow. This might be might faborite adventure path ever. No doubt gonna be worth the wait.
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I wonder if there is a way to combine Rise, Return and Shattered Star as a single Mega AP.There kind of will be, but you'll need to wait a year to see what exactly we've got planned for Return of the Runelords to know how!
The boiler on my hype train can't take much more...
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YES!
So excited for this. Now I just have to get both my Runelords groups to pick up the pace, then agree to play ShSt (and finish it) first. This might take some time ...
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I was thinking something more along the lines of:
Rise of the Runelords Book 1
Shattered Star Book 1
Return of the Runelords Book 1Rise of the Runelords Book 2
Shattered Star Book 2
Return of the Runelords Book 2Rise of the Runelords Book 3
Shattered Star Book 3
Return of the Runelords Book 3Rise of the Runelords Book 4
Shattered Star Book 4
Return of the Runelords Book 4Rise of the Runelords Book 5
Shattered Star Book 5
Return of the Runelords Book 5Rise of the Runelords Book 6
Shattered Star Book 6
Return of the Runelords Book 6
I don't know if you worry about things like spoilers, but running the three APs like that might reveal certain things earlier than originally planned by the authors.
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Okay, so how do we abbreviate this AP title?
RotR2?
RotR3? (Seeing as Shattered Star is part 2.)
RR?
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One other thing: do we finally get a Campaign Setting sourcebook for Riddleport?
One can only get so far with the article in Second Darkness plus the Varisia Player's Companion ... and Korvosa, Kaer Maga, and Magnimar have already been given the CS treatment.
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This should be Epic! Now I just gotta wait a whole year!
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So I'm highly hype confused
I really wanted Dominion of the Black doomsday clock 4718 AP, but I've also really wanted follow up on "The Return of Runelords draws near." line from Rise of the Runelords :'D
So anyway, I guess this has rest five of them minus Krune and Karzoug since latter died in RotR and former died in Pathfinder Society scenarios?
Also, visiting all important Varisians cities but Janderhoff? : D
Surprised it takes before Jade Regent though since "ap canonically starts when released AR" thing means it should have taken place years ago, but since its apparently not important I guess it just means an Ameiko cameo?(how old she is anyway canonically since according to Jade Regent, she should be 18 by RotR aka 4707)
ALSO, wondering if this AP will somehow explain what happened to Ungarato during the Gap in Starfinder :D Because I still find it awesomely hilarious what happened to Ungarato
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Quite honestly that's basically how I run mythic nowadays in my games. It's just for NPC from villains to epic good guys.
Mythic on players is just too much headache.
I've toyed with the idea of having characters acquire just the immortal 9th tier power and the +1d6 surge translating into a daily pool of hero points (3/day +1/day per 2 character levels). Then toss out the return-from-being-dead abilities/spells.
Dragotha can waste you again .. and again ... and again ... but you'll keep on coming! Sanity not guaranteed. ;)
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ALSO, wondering if this AP will somehow explain what happened to Ungarato during the Gap in Starfinder :D Because I still find it awesomely hilarious what happened to Ungarato
Who/what is Ungarato?
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Any idea how to integrate old pc's from previous games?
Yes, lots of ideas. The integration of previous PCs from Rise of the Runelords and/or Shattered Star will be a key part of Return of the Runelords. (If you play Return without one or two of the previous ones, then the Iconics or NPCs of the GM's choice will stand in as the heroes of the previous APs.)
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So I'm highly hype confused
I really wanted Dominion of the Black doomsday clock 4718 AP, but I've also really wanted follow up on "The Return of Runelords draws near." line from Rise of the Runelords :'D
So anyway, I guess this has rest five of them minus Krune and Karzoug since latter died in RotR and former died in Pathfinder Society scenarios?
Also, visiting all important Varisians cities but Janderhoff? : D
Surprised it takes before Jade Regent though since "ap canonically starts when released AR" thing means it should have taken place years ago, but since its apparently not important I guess it just means an Ameiko cameo?(how old she is anyway canonically since according to Jade Regent, she should be 18 by RotR aka 4707)
ALSO, wondering if this AP will somehow explain what happened to Ungarato during the Gap in Starfinder :D Because I still find it awesomely hilarious what happened to Ungarato
The concept of an Adventure Path "canonically starting" the year it was released isn't actual canon. It's a suggestion. The actual order in which the APs occur is up to you, the GM. Or in the case of when we do sequel APs... up to us.
As for Pathfinder/Starfinder crossovers... don't expect them, because that's not the point. Ungarato's fate (if indeed it HAS a fate) in Return of the Runelords doesn't have to sync up with what its role is in Starfinder... or anything else for that matter. They're separate games.
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Will Runelords Other than the final 7 be present? I think Belisarius had their successor trapped in some sort of temporal freeze?
Also, Will this AP assume the Seven Swords of Sin Module happened? and will we see any of the swords?
Yes to most but not to all.
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Aww man :D Would still have been cool to see how Starfinder version ended up like that. Ah well, i guess it'll be cool mystery in that alternate timeline
But yeah, hype is real, I can't wait to hear more about this one. Still hoping the doomsday clock thing happens in module at least, would be sad if it was just pathfinder society scenario thing.
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Surprised it takes before Jade Regent though since "ap canonically starts when released AR" thing means it should have taken place years ago, but since its apparently not important I guess it just means an Ameiko cameo?(how old she is anyway canonically since according to Jade Regent, she should be 18 by RotR aka 4707)The concept of an Adventure Path "canonically starting" the year it was released isn't actual canon. It's a suggestion. The actual order in which the APs occur is up to you, the GM. Or in the case of when we do sequel APs... up to us.
Though having her show up in Return when so many may have played through Jade Regent would be very strange indeed, and quite impossible for some groups that keep their own continuity of Golarion, which was always Paizo's intention, I'd thought. For it to actually happen, considerations as to why she would be there must be made--by the GM if not the adventure itself. Likely, for any game in our Golarion, Ameiko would have to be written out without such an explanation, or it would make sense at all.
However, Paizo does consider these things with handy-dandy sidebars, so I'm not truly worried about this that much. I thought it an interesting conundrum considering these two comments is all!
I cannot tell you how much I'm looking forward to this AP. With Ruins of Azlant coming out as we speak, and now Return of the Runelords in a years time, Paizo has done a phenomenal job with its APs recently. I adore this historical stuff! =D