For the purposes of Ratfolk "Rodent Empathy", does a dire bat qualify? A standard bat counts.
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Well, rodents are members of the Order Rodentia. (Taxonomy). Bats are of the order Chiroptera. So, in real life biology Bats are not rodents.
I have no idea for the game however.
Edit: Never mind. It's in Ultimate Equipment.
Bat
Price 5 gp; Weight 1 lb.
These Diminutive rodents are nocturnal fliers that eat insects and fruit. They rely primarily on sound to navigate rather than sight. They are absent only in desert and arctic regions. Some cultures keep bat houses near towns and villages to control insect problems. More information on bats can be found in the Bestiary.
Bestiary
"Bats are Diminutive nocturnal rodent fliers that eat insects and fruit. They rely primarily on sound to navigate rather than sight."
Hooray, so my Ratfolk Hunter with a dire bat animal companion gets to apply his +4 handle animal for rodent empathy.
Thanks for the help.
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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Wait what? Ultimate Equipment, no. No, Ultimate Equipment. Not okay. Bats are not rodents--not by a long shot. I would not apply a ratfolk's rodent empathy to bats, just as I would not apply it to whales (and other mammals that are not part of the same taxonomic order).
I'm happy to champion the noble cause of categorizing bats properly as the order chiroptera and not rodentia. This would, of course, make for a very silly FAQ, so I'll speak to the proper authorities directly.
Developer
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Wait what? Ultimate Equipment, no. No, Ultimate Equipment. Not okay. Bats are not rodents--not by a long shot. I would not apply a ratfolk's rodent empathy to bats, just as I would not apply it to whales (and other mammals that are not part of the same taxonomic order).
I'm happy to champion the noble cause of categorizing bats properly as the order chiroptera and not rodentia. This would, of course, make for a very silly FAQ, so I'll speak to the proper authorities directly.
Miscategorizing bats? Nooooooes! This FAQ needs to be a thing. Or at the very least it needs a Campaign Clarification for Pathfinder Society :P
I submit to evidence one of my favorite cute bat videos.| 12 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wait what? Ultimate Equipment, no. No, Ultimate Equipment. Not okay. Bats are not rodents--not by a long shot. I would not apply a ratfolk's rodent empathy to bats, just as I would not apply it to whales (and other mammals that are not part of the same taxonomic order).
I'm happy to champion the noble cause of categorizing bats properly as the order chiroptera and not rodentia. This would, of course, make for a very silly FAQ, so I'll speak to the proper authorities directly.
Thanks!
The frustrated Biologist in me needed to hear that.I can take that dragons exist, but I cannot take that bats could be rodents on Golarion. I am complicated xD
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Well, rodents are members of the Order Rodentia. (Taxonomy). Bats are of the order Chiroptera. So, in real life biology Bats are not rodents.
I have no idea for the game however.
Edit: Never mind. It's in Ultimate Equipment.
Bat
Price 5 gp; Weight 1 lb.
These Diminutive rodents are nocturnal fliers that eat insects and fruit. They rely primarily on sound to navigate rather than sight. They are absent only in desert and arctic regions. Some cultures keep bat houses near towns and villages to control insect problems. More information on bats can be found in the Bestiary.
Someone obviously didn't do his homework.
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*looks at all the fungi categorised in D&D as Plants*
I can see the sense of that as a way of avoiding to create an unnecessary type of creature.
I think in that case is not a mistake but something done delibrately to simplify things.
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*looks at all the fungi categorised in D&D as Plants*I can see the sense of that as a way of avoiding to create an unnecessary type of creature.
I think in that case is not a mistake but something done delibrately to simplify things.
Sure, but it always makes me smile.
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Fungi are an alien creature not native to this planet. They have came from space to take over! Beware the Fungi they are not fun guys!
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In Golarion a petri dish with a culture media for fungi would count as a plant pot xD
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In Golarion a petri dish with a culture media for fungi would count as a plant pot xD
And an evil empire bent on world domination!
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Wait what? Ultimate Equipment, no. No, Ultimate Equipment. Not okay. Bats are not rodents--not by a long shot. I would not apply a ratfolk's rodent empathy to bats, just as I would not apply it to whales (and other mammals that are not part of the same taxonomic order).
I'm happy to champion the noble cause of categorizing bats properly as the order chiroptera and not rodentia. This would, of course, make for a very silly FAQ, so I'll speak to the proper authorities directly.
Thanks!
The frustrated Biologist in me needed to hear that.
I can take that dragons exist, but I cannot take that bats could be rodents on Golarion. I am complicated xD
Suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
Beware the Fungi they are not fun guys!
But they ARE delicious.
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Bats are Chiroptera and Rodents are Rodentia and ne'er the twain shall meet.
In Golarion a petri dish with a culture media for fungi would count as a plant pot xDThere's an archetype for that™.
There's a Paizo One now too.
Speaking of weirdness, IIRC, sponges would technically be a kind of plant.
they would possibly fall under verminNo, vermin are invertebrates. Bats and Dire Bats are mammals and have spines and the like.
Well rats are considered vermin in PF and they are also mammals.
They are R.O.U.S's
(Really, no one?)
They are R.O.U.S's
(Really, no one?)
Sorry I didn't check it till just then but have you seen a man with six fingers?
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Well rats are considered vermin in PF and they are also mammals.Speaking of weirdness, IIRC, sponges would technically be a kind of plant.
they would possibly fall under verminNo, vermin are invertebrates. Bats and Dire Bats are mammals and have spines and the like.
This is news to me, could you point me to a citaion? I'm coming up empty trying to track it down.
This is news to me, could you point me to a citaion? I'm coming up empty trying to track it down.Well rats are considered vermin in PF and they are also mammals.Speaking of weirdness, IIRC, sponges would technically be a kind of plant.
they would possibly fall under verminNo, vermin are invertebrates. Bats and Dire Bats are mammals and have spines and the like.
Huh weird after doing a search on the pfsrd aparenlty its only fiendish and celestial rats (as well as every other celestial and fiendish small animal wtf?) also Sea Anemone and all sorts of crabs.
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Huh weird after doing a search on the pfsrd aparenlty its only fiendish and celestial rats (as well as every other celestial and fiendish small animal wtf?) also Sea Anemone and all sorts of crabs.This is news to me, could you point me to a citaion? I'm coming up empty trying to track it down.Well rats are considered vermin in PF and they are also mammals.Speaking of weirdness, IIRC, sponges would technically be a kind of plant.
they would possibly fall under verminNo, vermin are invertebrates. Bats and Dire Bats are mammals and have spines and the like.
Both the rat swarm and individual rats are animals, not vermin.
Both the rat swarm and individual rats are animals, not vermin.Huh weird after doing a search on the pfsrd aparenlty its only fiendish and celestial rats (as well as every other celestial and fiendish small animal wtf?) also Sea Anemone and all sorts of crabs.This is news to me, could you point me to a citaion? I'm coming up empty trying to track it down.Well rats are considered vermin in PF and they are also mammals.Speaking of weirdness, IIRC, sponges would technically be a kind of plant.
they would possibly fall under verminNo, vermin are invertebrates. Bats and Dire Bats are mammals and have spines and the like.
Right hence me saying Huh turns out its only fiendish and celestial rats.
At this point I would say they just didn't think about it. I mean why else would a cat be an animal but a celestial cat be a vermin.
go to prd and search vermin.
Hold on let me be more specific to avoid more confusion go to the prd global bestiary Indecies and un-check all option in creature type except vermin.
Hmm it may just be a flaw in that search Index. It looks like its just listing all fiendish and celestial familiars as vermin but they direct you to familiar and there is a small line of text that says they keep their creature types.
^ . . . And the Paizo Messageboards/PRD Search function is broken (always puts up the Paizo Golem error page, and was also doing this yesterday). Nothing turns up for this on www.d20pfsrd.com, although I vaguely remember rats and mice being off-handedly called vermin in something that wasn't a monster entry, consistent with (at least formerly) common usage on Earth, but inconsistent with Pathfinder taxonomy.
What I find somewhat irritating is that Pathfinder taxonomy of metazoa is almost sensible, with vertebrates being classified as Animals(*) and other metazoa being classified as Vermin, EXCEPT that cephalopods get classified as Animals after all.
(*)May actually apply to Deuterostomes more generally, but this is currently not testable -- as far as I know, they don't have any non-Vertebrate Deuterostomes in any of the Bestiaries.
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Pathfinder considers Pterosaurs to be Dinosaurs.
Anywhom, I'm actually fine leaving Bats as rodents (in so far as Pathfinder categorizes them). Otherwise Ratfolk lose a key ability to interact with them.
Or, if such an FAQ gets released, hopefully it will clarify something to the effect of "Even though Bats are not actually Rodents, Ratfolk Empathy works on them regardless".
{. . .}
Miscategorizing bats? Nooooooes! This FAQ needs to be a thing. Or at the very least it needs a Campaign Clarification for Pathfinder Society :P
I submit to evidence one of my favorite cute bat videos.
Actually, now that I think back on that video, that bat's teeth are definitely NOT rodent-related -- they look more like the teeth of a dog. And: According to a recent phylogenetic tree of the subset of mammals that includes bats, bats are indeed more closely related to dogs than to rodents (the latter of which are instead more closely related to us).
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Doesn't Catwoman have some line about bats being mice with wings...?more than likely she does, and several langauges have their word for bat including mouse.
Common joke in my HS German class
"Ich bin das Fledermausmensch!"(I never thought to confirm that the comic might be called this in German, though I have vague recollection of Herr Rowley saying the Germans would just say 'I'm Batman'
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They are R.O.U.S's
Rodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
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They are R.O.U.S'sRodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
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Raaarrrgh!They are R.O.U.S'sRodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
But seriously Being attacked by a rat the size of a rottweiler and your just gonna stand there and watch. if you could just kick my sword over to me that be nice. No ok then. I'll just wrestle it with my bare-hands then.
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Not sure what everyone is talking about.
Fact #1: Bats are bugs.
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Not sure what everyone is talking about.
Fact #1: Bats are bugs.
Jokey I'd like to see you a moment.
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Raaarrrgh!They are R.O.U.S'sRodents of Unusual Size? I don't think they exist.
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Capibaras are real and pretty large.