I did a double archetype Inquisitor - Ravener Hunter and Sanctified Slayer. She's a half-orc, which allows her to use an Orc Hornbow as a Martial weapon.So while true that you treat it as a martial weapon that doesn't help you at all. Inquisitors don't get martial weapon proficiency, so you're still just as non-proficient as if it was exotic still. Though being half-orc does help if you grab the Skill at Arms revelation instead since that would let you have proficiency with the bow as a martial weapon.
Alternatively, invest in an Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone.
The one-level package of:
Barbarian [Savage Technologist] + Extra Rage
....as a ground-floor under any other martial build is such a huge accelerant that I am frankly surprised it's never been nerfed.
Ok, so swap War Sight for Skill At Arms and Coordinated Defense for Coordinated Shot. Can't get Improved Precise Shot with my Slayer Talent, so what should I pick instead? And is there any way I can get Improved Precise Shot without needing the 11 BAB? Or do I just have to wait until level 15?
I suppose I could take the Talent Deadly Range. It increases my Sneak Attack range by 10 feet, so I can hit a foe with a Sneak Attack at 40 feet. And Combat Trick is always a good choice, but I would need to pick a decent feat.
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Ok, so swap War Sight for Skill At Arms and Coordinated Defense for Coordinated Shot. Can't get Improved Precise Shot with my Slayer Talent, so what should I pick instead? And is there any way I can get Improved Precise Shot without needing the 11 BAB? Or do I just have to wait until level 15?
I suppose I could take the Talent Deadly Range. It increases my Sneak Attack range by 10 feet, so I can hit a foe with a Sneak Attack at 40 feet. And Combat Trick is always a good choice, but I would need to pick a decent feat.
Friendly Fire Maneuvers IS your Improved Precise Shot. That should be your level 6 teamwork feat, it's way more important than Coordinated Shot.
Ok, I can take Combat Trick for my Talent and use it to take Friendly Fire Maneuvers.
Nothing beats a Sohoi/Weapon Master multiclass. Nothing (...well, OK: maybe certain monsters that can fire more than one bow at a time.)At weapon master 3/sohei 6 you'd be pretty powerful. Still, I'd like to see a dpr breakdown with the same level of depth that the builds on p. 2 of this thread included, along with analysis along the lines of Blind Monkey conducted as proof.There's probably room for six levels of Sohei monk in a "Everybody make a 15th-level character!" scenario, but I doubt I would ever play a multiclass martial archer from 1st-level with it, because the glacial acquisition of feats is just excruciating and you can't Flurry with a bow until you've reached 6th-level in the class and have taken Weapon Training in bows! Inability to coexist (due to alignment reasons) with the best cheese in the game for archers (dipping a level of the barbarian archetype Savage Technologist) during that whole tedious slog makes it even worse.
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The build below is a retweaking of one posted a month ago.
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STR: 14
DEX+ 17
CON: 12
INT: 12
WIS: 12
CHA: 12Half-orc racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
traits: Fate’s Favored, Magical Knack[Warpriest]1 Barbarian [Savage Technologist/Drunken Brute], Extra Rage
2 Warpriest1* [Weapon Focus: Longbow]
3 Warpriest2* [fervor], Deadly Aim
4 Ninja1 [SA+1d6], dex>18
5 Ninja2 [Ki pool][Combat Trick:Combat Reflexes], Quick Draw
6 Samurai1 [Order of the Warrior][Resolve:1/day]
7 Weapon Master1 [feat: Point-Blank Shot], Rapid Shot
8 Weapon Master2 [feat: Manyshot], dex>19
9 Weapon Master3 [Weapon Training longbow], Clustered Shots
10* Weapon Master4 [feat: Advanced Weapon Training: Fighter’s Tactics]
11* Samurai2 Feat (WS:Longbow, Improved Critical, or Improved Precise Shot)
12* Samurai3 [Resolve:2/day][Weapon Expertise: longbow], dex>20* On or around 10th, a Silver Spindle ioun stone will...
First Level is not bad for sohei. You only is not too good(ZAM is better in the first 3 levels).
And, nice build. I'm a bit lazy to read all the text, but challenger is not for meele only attacks?
I have built an Inquisitor (Sanctified Slayer/Ravener Hunter) took Weapon Mastery for free weapon focus. To get around the missing Point Blank Master, I instead went in the Empty Quiver Style feat tree. As a human you can get the first feat as early as level 5. I gave the Ranger in my party a run for their money.
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The problem with the build is that it still need high Dex for feat prerequies so it end up only being able slightly better in terms of point buy but being behind in divine favor/power, the judgements, bane, Heroism etc. Most of the power of the inquisitor archer, much like the warpriest, comes from stacking an insane number of bonuses. The zen archer delays that significantly. It does have the beifit of an insane will save.
First Level is not bad for sohei. You only is not too good(ZAM is better in the first 3 levels).
And, nice build. I'm a bit lazy to read all the text, but challenger is not for meele only attacks?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but some general observations:
* I never liked ZAMs (Zen archer monks) because they're pure one-trick pony. Take their bow away or make ranged combat difficult, and they cry. The bowbarian mutt shrugs, pulls out a bardiche or any other martial clobberer, and swigs a potion of Enlarge Person. Sohei are better archers than ZAMs due to Gloves of Dueling and being able to stack Flurry and Rapid/Manyshot...but as previously noted are excruciating to play IRL from 1st level.
* Challenge bonus damage, delivered by the Diakyu of Commanding Presence, is a hefty amount. (That old build of mine does need re-tweaking, and Samurai can't use Vambraces of the Tactician.)
* The ninja levels were for extra attacks via Ki.
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Let's give that half-orc bowbarian mutt of mine (see previous page) a dust-off and upgrade. Prefatory note: I normally design characters to be versatile at low 1st level (as if they were actually played from 1st), and typically prefer to keep them PFS-legal.
This build (now featuring 34% more average DPR!) represents the final retrained (and tweaked) version of the original posted on the previous page that included Warpriest early and then cashed out it for a Silver Spindle. The Diakyo of Commanding Presence (a weapon in the previous build), as a specific magic item (a longbow), cannot be an orc hornbow. So we get rid of it and switch the Samurai levels to Luring Cavalier (which also means we’re RAW legal to use Vambraces of the Tactician). This frees up a fat chunk of mid-level money for earlier acquisition of the Silver Spindle or other equipment. Downside is the loss of Resolve, which stings (especially defensively).
STR: 14
DEX+ 17 (half-orc: 15,14,14,14,12,7 20pt array)
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 07 (a)
CHA: 14
racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
traits: Adopted (Dwarf:Zest for Battle), Irrepressible(a)
01 Barbarian1 [Savage Technologist/Drunken Brute], Extra Rage
02 Brawler1 [Wild Child][Animal Companion][Martial Flexibility](b)
03 Ninja1 [SA+2d6], Accomplished Sneak Attacker(c)
04 Cavalier1 [Luring][Order of the Land][Teamwork:Amplified Rage]
05 Ninja2 [Ki pool][Combat Trick:Point-Blank Shot], Rapid Shot
06 Weapon Master1 [Deadly Aim]
07 Weapon Master2 [Manyshot], Martial Focus(bows)(d)
08 Weapon Master3 [Weapon Training+1]
09 Cavalier2 [Adaptive Strike], AWT:Fighter’s Tactics(e)
10 Ranger1 [Guide/Lantern Lighter][Ranger’s Focus][Low-light Vision]
11 Ninja3 [SA+3d6], Weapon Specialization(e)
12 Ninja4 [uncanny dodge][Trick/Weapon Training:Weapon Focus(Longbow)](f)
a. substitute Cha for Wis > Charm/Compulsion, so we un-MAD our point-buy
b. the feat “Dedicated Adversary” is chosen with Martial Flexibility
c. or Boon Companion, Weapon Focus, or Precise Shot before retraining
d. Orc Weapon Expertise also works here, but no room for both
e. qualify as Fighter 4th for feats since Brawler stacks
f. taken earlier in another slot, then retrained into Ninja trick slot
Level-by-level analysis (from perspective of character played from 1st):
0: Zest for Battle tempts moving Cavalier up to 2nd.
1: Best martial dip in the game.
2: Martial Flexibility and an ornery sidekick!
3: Rage/flank polearm sneak-attack until 3k for Adaptable bow.
4: Order of the Land morale bonus triggers Zest for Battle.
5: Ki pool + Rapid Shot triples attacks/round.
8: Can’t afford Gloves of Dueling until now anyway.
9: Amplified Rage finally kicks in.
Like most Tinker-Toy multiclass martial builds, you can order the levels as you please depending upon what aspects you want first.
Equipment (pretty much all offense, but then this is a DPR experiment):
- +1/Adaptable/Impervious/Seeking orc hornbow
- Boots of Speed (feet)
- Goz Mask (head)
- Sniper Goggles (eyes)
- Gloves of Dueling (hands)
- Vambraces of the Tactician (wrists)
- Vest of the Vengeful Tracker (chest)
- Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 (waist)
- Headband of Alluring Charisma (headband)
- Champion’s Banner (samurai back-frame)
- Meditation Crystals (a bagful)
- Ioun: Pale green prism ioun stone, cracked
- Ioun: Silver Spindle (normal, Divine Favor)
- Potion: Bull’s Strength
- Oil: Keen Edge
- Familiar Satchel
Animal Companion: badger with Narrow Frame feat; usually curled up safe inside a Familiar Satchel; will count as an adjacent ally for purposes of Amplified Rage
WBL is over-budget average WBL for 12th, but not near 100% theoretical PFS maximum, so we’ll use it for this sandbox DPR contest.
Action economies:
- pre-combat: oils, blanches, and other buffs for ammunition
- Free: rage, put potion in hand (spring-loaded wrist sheaths)
- Automatic: Amplified Rage (Fighter’s Tactics)
- swift: Challenge, Ki, Ranger’s Focus (Guide archetype)
- Move: consume potion (Drunken Brute archetype), Martial Flexibility
- Standard: activate Silver Spindle, UMD wand (Gravity Bow, etc)
Nifty exploits:
* charisma fuels Ki, UMD, and the will saves we need to make most
* Seeking sneak-attacks at any range through fog w/low-light vision
* Guide archetype’s Ranger Focus stacks with Dedicated Adversary
Class ability usage limits:
* Rage: 12 rounds/day
* Dedicated Adversary (Martial Flexibility): 4/day
* Challenge: 2/day
* Ki: 2 + Cha bonus/encounter (replenish w/Meditation Crystals OoC)
* Divine Favor (Silver Spindle): 3/day
* Ranger’s Focus: 1/day (regrettably no way to increase…?)
Tactics: we have a wide variety of ways to step up damage, and it would normally be very unlikely to have them all activated simultaneously. But supposing a fight in which we’re unable to do much in the first few rounds other than buff, before unloading…
Attack bonus at 12th vs flat-footed Challenged opponent within 30’:
11 BAB11
11 dexterity 32
1 Weapon Focus
3 Weapon Training
1 enhancement
1 Haste
1 Point-Blank Shot
1 competence (pale green)
4 luck (Silver Spindle/Divine Favor)
3 morale (Order of the Land/Vambraces/Banner)
2 Ranger’s Focus
2 Dedicated Adversary
-2 Rapid Shot
-3 Deadly Aim
= +36, +40 crit-confirmation (Vest)
-5 2nd full attack iterative
-10 3rd full attack iterative
Damage:
10.5 (3d6 Hornbow w/Gravity Bow)
8 strength (w/Bull’s Strength)
8 challenge
6 Deadly Aim
3 Weapon Training
2 Weapon Specialization
4 luck
2 Ranger’s Focus
2 Dedicated Adversary
1 enhancement
1 Martial Focus
1 Point-Blank Shot
1 Zest for Battle
= 49.5 numerical
+9.405 average crit bonus w/95% confirmation [(.1)(.95)(2x49.5)]
+2d6 miscellaneous (Flame Arrow, etc)
+3d6 sneak-attack versus flat-footed opponent
= 76.405
Many/Rapid/Hasted/Ki/-5/-10: m(+36/+36)/r+36/h+36/k+36/+31/+26
If everything goes off and hits… ~535
I don't see precise shot in there. Even though the bonuses are very high at the build's end, if you play that character from lvl one, won't he struggles to land his shots when the rest of the party gets stuck in?
The problem with the build is that it still need high Dex for feat prerequies so it end up only being able slightly better in terms of point buy but being behind in divine favor/power, the judgements, bane, Heroism etc. Most of the power of the inquisitor archer, much like the warpriest, comes from stacking an insane number of bonuses. The zen archer delays that significantly. It does have the beifit of an insane will save.
Zen archer 4/Inquisitor works very fine. You gain many many feats for these 4 levels, flurry replaces Rapid Shot, Divine Favor (with Magic Knack) scales quickly to its Limit, WIS Mod to initiative, to hit and AC makes Dex very obsolete (if you don't want Snap Shot)... Ki pool extra attack stacks with haste (if there wasn't an errata lately that I missed like so many others).
Weapon Focus at level 2, Point Blank Master for free at level 3, Precise Shot without having to fullfill any prerequisites… which feats do you want with Dex?
Yeah, 4 Levels behind in spellcasting hurts but you still get Level 6 spells. Divine Power is great… getting boots of haste instead helps a lot together with Wrath and Divine Favor (if there is time to buff).
Zen Archer is only good for the opening of the build.
You're better off retraining those levels later on. They're not actually that useful to 12+ level Inquisitor.
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The problem with the build is that it still need high Dex for feat prerequies so it end up only being able slightly better in terms of point buy but being behind in divine favor/power, the judgements, bane, Heroism etc. Most of the power of the inquisitor archer, much like the warpriest, comes from stacking an insane number of bonuses. The zen archer delays that significantly. It does have the beifit of an insane will save.Zen archer 4/Inquisitor works very fine. You gain many many feats for these 4 levels, flurry replaces Rapid Shot, Divine Favor (with Magic Knack) scales quickly to its Limit, WIS Mod to initiative, to hit and AC makes Dex very obsolete (if you don't want Snap Shot)... Ki pool extra attack stacks with haste (if there wasn't an errata lately that I missed like so many others).
Weapon Focus at level 2, Point Blank Master for free at level 3, Precise Shot without having to fullfill any prerequisites… which feats do you want with Dex?
Yeah, 4 Levels behind in spellcasting hurts but you still get Level 6 spells. Divine Power is great… getting boots of haste instead helps a lot together with Wrath and Divine Favor (if there is time to buff).
This build is fine but benchmark it against the build in the thread. the build is using partial flurry from a class that was already in the middle of the pack. Even this build will do better to pick up rapid shot, and manyshot.
Improved Precise Shot (Combat) has dex of 19, you need 13 for deadly aim.
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I don't see precise shot in there. Even though the bonuses are very high at the build's end, if you play that character from lvl one, won't he struggles to land his shots when the rest of the party gets stuck in?
As noted in "c.", you can take it early and then get rid of it by mid-level (by which time attack-bonus is accelerating to the point you're hitting on sub-5s).
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A List of Reasons Why I Hate Precise Shot:
* It's a useless feat unless the opponent is in melee.
* It doesn't negate tacked-on soft-cover penalties (which any ally in melee with your target is granting to them half the time, or most of the time if you're usually in the rear of the party. Better idea: murderhobo everything the other PCs aren't engaged with, then join them in melee with a fresh "sink" of hitpoints at a time when they're hurting. (As a rage class whose AC increases when we're mad, our AC is also pretty decent.)
* If the target is really big, I might not need Precise Shot to avoid a -4 penalty anyway even if it is melee with an ally. ("Yo, Mr. Troll! Did anyone ever tell you that you have a huge ass?" <poink!>)
* Some "friendlies" I couldn't care less about and will cheerfully forgo eating a -4 penalty to avoid hitting. Example: my target is being harassed by a cloud of weak summoned critters.
* It's a wasted feat at low-level before you can afford a nice bow (e.g., Adaptable orc hornbows start at 3430gp, and even a quickly-obsolesced ordinary non-masterwork longbow is an onerous 300gp to 500gp at 2nd, depending on the STR-rating). --In other words, you're mainly eschewing archery at these levels in deference to just clonking things with a bardiche in melee for d10+6, because flying monsters and really dangerous casters you shouldn't be seeing until around 5th or so. (If this were a "real" character instead of a DPR appraisal, I'm more likely to take, say, Quick Draw, than Precise Shot at 5th where the lackluster Martial Focus currently resides.) Dedicated switchhittery also eliminates the eventual necessity for Snap Shot and its feat-gobbling ancillaries.
* The only feat I'm interested in for which Precise Shot is a "tax" prerequisite is Clustered Shots. Given the available power output on-demand, DR really isn't a problem. (And it's not like two more levels of Fighter couldn't have both by 14th. For mental exercise, I usually try to compress builds to 12th or less, figuring that most characters, or campaigns, aren't played that high.)
It seems like you could work extreme mood swings in to that build somewhere. +1 or +2 to all your morale bonuses would be bigger than some of your other feats and you can rely on being drunk with your barbarian archetype anyhow.
It seems like you could work extreme mood swings in to that build somewhere. +1 or +2 to all your morale bonuses would be bigger than some of your other feats and you can rely on being drunk with your barbarian archetype anyhow.
He's getting morale bonuses to attributes by raging, morale bonuses to attack from cavalier, and a morale bonus to damage from Zest for Battle.
Granted, Zest is only +1, but it's only a trait and not fighting for feat-slot room. Given that exactly 100% of the feats in the build (aside from Extra Rage at 1st level) increase damage or number of attacks, whatever is swapped in would have to be at least a +3 morale bonus to damage to result in a +1 increase once removal of a different feat is accounted for, and the non-stacking nature of Zest is accounted for.
Extreme mood swings increases each of your moral bonuses by +1, or +2 if you're drunk. I see a few feats that fall short of a +2 to strength, dex, con, to hit and damage.
Zest for battle is a trait bonus, not a morale bonus, isn't it?
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Oh. I hadn't realized that you were referring to a very new feat. (Nice.) As you observe, Zest is a trait bonus. Hmm....
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OK, just for ridiculous amounts of lulz, let's throw a potion of Good Hope at the build as well (we'll assume it's one of those high-level situations where I have almost unlimited prep time as the wizard is impatiently waiting to trigger his party warp-jump straight into combat).
Deploying the potion for maximum effect (i.e., triggering the +2 condition of Extreme Mood Swings) also requires being sufficiently drunk but not too plowed, which will be rather difficult to "rush" considering the ridiculous fortitude save of the heavily-multiclassed character. Let's assume I have a barrel of ale in a bag of holding with a tube running to my mouth and a dog's inclination to frequently mark territory. "Cool yer wands, Wiz; I'll let you know when I'm buzzed enough. *Hic*! OK; let's go."
Anyway.... To pay for the inclusion of Extreme Mood Swings without lowering existing DPR, I'll toss Extra Rage (which I would never do in a real build with a single-level barbarian dip) instead of the relatively pathetic Martial Focus.
Results:
* Str and Dex were already at a +4 morale bonus due to Amplified Rage, which the "Stage I Inebriation" bonuses will not stack with. (A +4 to Con will be appreciated, however, since SavTech forfeits the ability to rage-pump that stat.) --This would mean that I don't need (provided I have unlimited funds for Good Hope potions and strong dwarven liquor) Amplified Rage in the Cavalier's Tactician slot or the rigamarole with the badger...but I'm not aware of any other Teamwork feat I could put in there that would directly increase damage....so no feat savings.
* Attack bonus rises by one due to the EMS-modified potion's bonus eclipsing the Luring Cavalier morale bonus to ranged attacks.
* Damage increases by 4 from the EMS-modified potion since the build did not previously contain a direct morale bonus to damage.
New stat block:
= 53.5 numerical
+10.165 average crit bonus w/95% confirmation [(.1)(.95)(2x49.5)]
+2d6 miscellaneous (Flame Arrow, etc)
+3d6 sneak-attack versus flat-footed opponent
= 81.165
Many/Rapid/Hasted/Ki/-5/-10: m(+37/+37)/r+37/h+37/k+37/+32/+27
If everything goes off and hits… ~568
(Of course my fear saves will be worse than ever...probably explains why I try to stand really far away and shoot things like a cowardly elf. How will I overcome these feelings of shame? ...Let's have another drink....)
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Let's give that half-orc bowbarian mutt of mine (see previous page) a dust-off and upgrade. Prefatory note: I normally design characters to be versatile at low 1st level (as if they were actually played from 1st), and typically prefer to keep them PFS-legal.
This build (now featuring 34% more average DPR!) represents the final retrained (and tweaked) version of the original posted on the previous page that included Warpriest early and then cashed out it for a Silver Spindle. The Diakyo of Commanding Presence (a weapon in the previous build), as a specific magic item (a longbow), cannot be an orc hornbow. So we get rid of it and switch the Samurai levels to Luring Cavalier (which also means we’re RAW legal to use Vambraces of the Tactician). This frees up a fat chunk of mid-level money for earlier acquisition of the Silver Spindle or other equipment. Downside is the loss of Resolve, which stings (especially defensively).
STR: 14
DEX+ 17 (half-orc: 15,14,14,14,12,7 20pt array)
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 07 (a)
CHA: 14racial trait: Sacred Tattoo
traits: Adopted (Dwarf:Zest for Battle), Irrepressible(a)
01 Barbarian1 [Savage Technologist/Drunken Brute], Extra Rage
02 Brawler1 [Wild Child][Animal Companion][Martial Flexibility](b)
03 Ninja1 [SA+2d6], Accomplished Sneak Attacker(c)
04 Cavalier1 [Luring][Order of the Land][Teamwork:Amplified Rage]
05 Ninja2 [Ki pool][Combat Trick:Point-Blank Shot], Rapid Shot
06 Weapon Master1 [Deadly Aim]
07 Weapon Master2 [Manyshot], Martial Focus(bows)(d)
08 Weapon Master3 [Weapon Training+1]
09 Cavalier2 [Adaptive Strike], AWT:Fighter’s Tactics(e)
10 Ranger1 [Guide/Lantern Lighter][Ranger’s Focus][Low-light Vision]
11 Ninja3 [SA+3d6], Weapon Specialization(e)
12 Ninja4 [uncanny dodge][Trick/Weapon Training:Weapon Focus(Longbow)](f)a. substitute Cha for Wis > Charm/Compulsion, so we un-MAD our point-buy
b. the feat “Dedicated Adversary” is chosen with Martial Flexibility
c. or Boon Companion, Weapon Focus, or Precise Shot before retraining
d. Orc...
What is this Weapon Master class you speak of? Are you going into Fighter at those levels and taking the archetype?
What is this Weapon Master class you speak of? Are you going into Fighter at those levels and taking the archetype?
Yes. As stated at the top of the post, I normally design characters to be versatile at low level (as if they were actually played from 1st). IMO, "dedicated" archery is impractical at 1st and even 2nd level due to the cost of bows. If you're a non-human non-fighter, the earliest you can get Rapid Shot is 3rd-level with 100% feat-commitment...which is arguably suboptimal given that you cannot even afford a "permanent" (i.e., non-obsolescing) bow yet. Target numbers are 3400gp for a +1/Adaptable composite longbow (more if desiring a special material) or 3430gp for an orc hornbow (which I presume cannot be composed of special material that is a type of wood).
So, make a skilled, tough, versatile character at 1st level, then segue into archery at early mid-level (5th in this case) when you can afford appropriate gear, and delay Weapon Training until you can pick up Gloves of Dueling at the same time.
Zen Archer is only good for the opening of the build.
You're better off retraining those levels later on. They're not actually that useful to 12+ level Inquisitor.
Certainly campaign dependant, that WIS to hit is huge. IME high level inquisitors without a lot of buffing time need every constant to hit bonus they can get.
Slim Jim:
Savage Technologist is not core, otherwise it would have been nerfed for sure.
Savage Technologist is not core, otherwise it would have been nerfed for sure.
You sure about that? For archery, Primal Hunter does almost the same thing (a feat released four years later notwithstanding), and for melees, unBarb or Urban Barbarian do practically the same thing ST does.
Certainly campaign dependant, that WIS to hit is huge. IME high level inquisitors without a lot of buffing time need every constant to hit bonus they can get.Zen Archer is only good for the opening of the build.
You're better off retraining those levels later on. They're not actually that useful to 12+ level Inquisitor.
How needed is Zen Archer in light of Erastil's Blessing?
@Slim Jim: There's some things I don't understand about your build:
Where do you get 32 Dex from?
How do you qualify for AWT, I only see four effective fighter levels?
What's that "back-frame" thing you mounted the banner on?
How does the character enforce flat-footed?
A weapon master fighter only needs 4 fighter levels in order to take a feat for AWT.
You sure about that? I read that that you can take AWT with four levels of weapon master.
If you're getting a fighter level from somewhere else I think it's going to stack with your existing fighter levels rather than forming a new pool, yes.
You want high dex for the archery feats anyways.
Getting to use wisdom instead of dex isn't actually that big a deal at higher levels.
The Inquisitor can pretty safely focus on dex and wisdom and have just a little strength. The difference between 12 strength and 16 strength is only 2 damage.The Inquisitor gets so many various damage boosts that it's just not that important.
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How needed is Zen Archer in light of Erastil's Blessing?Well, they'll remain popular in PFS, where Erastil's Blessing hasn't been green-lit
@Slim Jim: There's some things I don't understand about your build: Where do you get 32 Dex from?20 from bumps, 4 from belt, 8 from Amplified Rage doubling SavTech's dex-rage.
How do you qualify for AWT, I only see four effective fighter levels?Fighter[Weapon Master]3 and Brawler1 equate to four fighter levels, which is all that a Weapon Master needs for AWT.
What's that "back-frame" thing you mounted the banner on?The armor frame a samurai uses to attach his sashimono. According to the Champion's Banner text, one of the various ways to display it is from a "frame". ...it doesn't list a slot requirement, but I left the "body" slot unfilled just in case.
How does the character enforce flat-footed?
He doesn't, aside from whatever surprise he might pull off due to ninja acumen and a +7 dex bonus to INIT.
"Yo, Wiz... If I'm standing in this cloud of smoke when you Gate us in, you can make it come with us, right? 'Cuz yer smart?"
The build is simply an exploration of theoretical maximum. E.g., see the follow-up post regarding drunk-fighting to exploit Extreme Mood Swings, which required chucking Extra Rage from the build as the sole remaining feat that didn't directly contribute to damage or number of attacks.
20 from bumps, 4 from belt, 8 from Amplified Rage doubling SavTech's dex-rage.
"your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4" I see no mention of Dexterity.
Fighter[Weapon Master]3 and Brawler1 equate to four fighter levels, which is all that a Weapon Master needs for AWT.
I'm not convinced AWT's special line is about Fighter levels rather than Weapon Master levels. "Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level." 4th what level? Character level? That would result in 3 levels being enough. The last thing mentioned? That would be levels in Weapon Master.
The armor frame a samurai uses to attach his sashimono. According to the Champion's Banner text, one of the various ways to display it is from a "frame". ...it doesn't list a slot requirement, but I left the "body" slot unfilled just in case.
No GM will let this fly. That you need a Wikipedia link rather than a game-related link should tell you everything you need to know.
There is a similar item that says it can be worn on the back, Champion's Banner doesn't.In the very least, it should interact with the character's cloak.
He doesn't, aside from whatever surprise he might pull off due to ninja acumen and a +7 dex bonus to INIT.
You were using a full attack, so it's not a surprise round and you init is irrelevant. What comes next, "my character was smart enough to pick allies that can buff him, so I include those buffs in his damage"?
I have a fun/silly theorycraft archery build to throw into the fray. At level ten, it's an Eldritch Guardian 2/Unsworn Shaman 8 with a goat familiar.
You get a dynamic duo of hornbow archers by transforming the familiar using Alter Self.
It shares your BAB and combat feats (including ewp:hornbow), and now it has hands!
Plus, due to Unsworn, you can try out all the cool shaman familiar powers, some of which will be better at low levels, some at higher levels. Fast healing? A fly speed? DR? STR boost (best for DPR)? All are in play!
Probably not competitive with the very best, but my preliminary DPR calculations seem to say it's viable and competes with the lower end of the builds featured on this thread. I've tried building it with various dips and they can boost raw DPR, but I think plain Unsworn Shaman is probably the all-around most powerful route. Zen Archer 3 is tempting, but even without it you get a lot of arrows in the air.
Of course it gets better if the GM lets a Greater Hat of Disguise work for infinite Alter Self instead of casting once per battle. Your familiar would need to activate the hat once every three minutes. That could look weird. Suggested command phrase: "Remember you are mortal". My DPR sketches (I could post them but I'm not sure they are airtight) assumed that I'd be spending a round to cast Alter with a standard action and the build was still viable, so the hat is truly optional.
A Shaman 8 with Magical Lineage: Alter Self and Quicken Spell might not need the hat for DPR mapping, but feats are tight.
If crafting is in play, the Unsworn+Fetish hex means free Craft Wondrous whenever you have downtime, which means a cheaper hat, and it negates some of the pain of having two sets of equipment to buy.
Mauler? Protector? Sage? I like that Protector works both ways and Life gives the familiar fast healing. Mauler would likely be best for DPR.
20 from bumps, 4 from belt, 8 from Amplified Rage doubling SavTech's dex-rage."your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4" I see no mention of Dexterity.
Savage Technologist (as well as Urban, and possibly other recent archetypes) alters the attributes bolstered by rage. Regards the interaction with Amplified rage, that conversation has occurred in plenty of older threads. (I suspect most players would actually be happy with an interpretation of gaining +8 str, +4 dex, and +4 con. It wouldn't make a different with the DPR output of this build)
I'm not convinced AWT's special line is about Fighter levels rather than Weapon Master levels. "Fighters that have the weapon master archetype can select this feat beginning at 4th level." 4th what level? Character level? That would result in 3 levels being enough.Brawler levels stack with fighter levels for feat access. There's no requirement that an AWT feat be taken in a Weapon Master's bonus feat slot -- only that, if he's straight-classed, there'd be nowhere else for it to go, and if he does put it in a bonus slot, then it doesn't count toward the limit of how many he can have. Using the retraining rules, a WM4 could have four AWT feats (three in bonus slots, one in a general.
The armor frame a samurai uses to attach his sashimono. According to the Champion's Banner text, one of the various ways to display it is from a "frame". ...it doesn't list a slot requirement, but I left the "body" slot unfilled just in case.No GM will let this fly.
Even though it's a REAL thing? (Head-count of PFS GMs: who here has ever prohibited samurai or cavalier PCs from displaying their sashimono or banners in the exact manner they did so in actual history?
You can even buy minis with banners already attached via back-frames, like this one, or this one. Even Nakayama Hayato, Paizo's samurai iconic character, is depicted with a back-frame-mounted banner. He also has a nice mini. (Note that this is even though samurai are screwed by the RAW text of Champion's Banner from enjoying a cavalier's benefits while displaying one; most home-game GMs are happy to waive that.)
That you need a Wikipedia link rather than a game-related link should tell you everything you need to know. There is a similar item that says it can be worn on the back, Champion's Banner doesn't. In the very least, it should interact with the character's cloak.(...)
Sashimono of Comfort
Source Pathfinder #51: The Hungry Storm pg. 62
Aura faint abjuration; CL 1st
Slot none; Price 2,400 gp; Weight 3 lbs.
A sashimono of comfort is a purple Tian silk banner, typically 3 feet tall and 1 foot wide, decorated with three stylized orchid flowers. The banner is attached to a lance, polearm, staff, or frame, which can be worn on the back of a creature, carried by a mounted creature, flown from a wagon, or planted in the ground....
I presume samurai carrying that in a slotless frame aren't prohibited from wearing cloaks. (And it's not like everything considered a "cloak" has to be a knee-length duster.)
(Also, I do agree with Derklord that the wording of Amplified Rage and Savage Technologist make their interaction dubious. Some GMs might let it fly, but I'm not sure it'd fly in, say, PFS.)As alluded in the immediately preceding post, it's a well-flogged horse in other threads, and, unless something has come along recently, it's never been FAQ'd.
(...)If the target is really big, I might not need Precise Shot to avoid a -4 penalty anyway even if it is melee with an ally. ("Yo, Mr. Troll! Did anyone ever tell you that you have a huge ass?" <poink!>)Some GMs may allow that, but RAW a creature locked in melee is a creature locked in melee. The penalty applies no matter the angle of the shot or how large the creature is.
If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)
If your target (or the part of your target you’re aiming at, if it’s a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you’re aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.
Who's "friendly" is up to me to decide. Shooting a summoned creature accidentally in the case of a near-miss isn't even forbidden in PFS (which otherwise has strict no-PVP rules) because they're just a spell manifestation. (I would be prohibited from being so similarly dismissive of a familiar or animal companion.)
In the case of a large creature such as the aforementioned troll, half of it is going to be 10' from an adjacent ally. I can safely shoot it unless surrounded by allies.
Should the PCs come upon a scene of orcs and trolls fighting each other, and a three-way struggle breaks out, I'm also not saddled in the case of any troll or orc opponent whose melee adversary is a troll or orc -- because I'm not taking pains to avoid either.
A cavalier spending 16,000gp on two different items for total gains of +6 to Challenge damage and an extra Challenge per day is hardly unbalancing. --That's 33% pricier than Boots of Speed, which can be used by anyone and potentially grant an extra attack every round, and 1000gp more than Gloves of Dueling, which grant fighters a +2 attack bonus when using their preferred weaponry.
(The European equivalent to a samurai's sashimono would the "wings" of the Polish hussars cavalry. Either were used by battlefield units whose specialized style of fighting precluded the use of shields, which were otherwise ideal for being emblazoned with heraldic symbols.)
You can get about 87.5% of Precise Shot's value via the Deadeye Bowman trait. If I were making a "real" (i.e. to-be-played) character, I'd take Deadeye Bowman + some other nice thing via Additional Traits at 3rd, then retrain them later when I absolutely needed Precise Shot for a tax-feat.
Precise Shot (without Deadeye Bowman): ...you eat the -4 penalty from an ally's soft cover (this happens all the time if you're in the bank rank of the party and you actually *needed* Precise Shot at that exact moment because your ally in front of you was engaging the enemy.) --Just because players ignore it doesn't mean that the penalty doesn't exist.
Deadeye Bowman (without Precise Shot): ...you eat a penalty shooting into melee, while ignoring soft cover penalties so long as only one ally is providing soft cover. *Nice*, because that situation can occur even when targeting opponents who aren't in melee.
IOW, you're usually at -4 either way.
So why not take both and generally speaking have no penalties to your archery at all?
Q. Why not take every nice feat in the book?
A. There's not enough room for them all.(Deadeye Bowman also requires worshiping Erastil, and therefore carries both deity and alignment restrictions. If you're a SavTech "bowbarian", NG is your only alignment option.)
~ ~ ~
Please also observe that my particular build was making up for potential penalties in other ways at low level: Savage Technologist is immediately granting +2/+2 to ranged attack/damage at 1st level with javelins, and the same with a +1/Adaptive bow at 3rd or thereabouts. When Amplified Rage kicks in, it jumps to +4/+4. Meanwhile, a Deadly Aiming fighter-archer is -2/+4 for the same damage, and desperately needs Precise Shot shooting into melee (provided he intends to keep Deadly Aim running) to catch up to still being only slightly worse until he gets his Gloves of Dueling.
As I previously wrote, to include emphasis this time:
Please also observe that my particular build was making up for potential penalties in other ways at low level: Savage Technologist is immediately granting +2/+2 to ranged attack/damage at 1st level with javelins, and the same with a +1/Adaptive bow at 3rd or thereabouts. When Amplified Rage kicks in, it jumps to +4/+4. Meanwhile, a Deadly Aiming fighter-archer is -2/+4 for the same damage, and desperately needs Precise Shot shooting into melee (provided he intends to keep Deadly Aim running) to catch up to still being only slightly worse until he gets his Gloves of Dueling.
If your attack-bonus is +6 over the other "professional" fighter-archer, do you really need Precise Shot for anything aside from prerequisites? --It's a luxury at that point, not a necessity.