DthKnell's page

When it comes to "Tanking" in PF, I prefer to take an offensive approach: Focus on causing a crapton of damage to the point that you cannot be ignored, while also debuffing enemies to the point that they cannot cause damage. And for this, I recommend a TWF Quick Dirty Tricks Master with either UncRogue4/SlayerX (if you want to use weapons) or SiegebreakerFighter2/BrawlerX (if you want to fight Unarmed, and be pushy-shovy-trippy as well).

If either of these sound interesting to you, I can make some build ideas for you.

I'm not the OP, but these sound really interesting. I'm interested by those character concepts, could you post a rough build?

There's also a 1k magic item that changes the size of an item (Iron Lord's Transforming Slivers) or another to reduce penties (effortless lace or iron grip gauntlets)

This typo is hilarious!

Did not know about that Magic Item, nice find.

I think option 1 is probably best.

I just finished Iron Gods as a player and we had a gnome who used fiearms in our group. Long story shot, there are NO small firearms in the AP. Our DM introduced us to some lovely gnome tinkerers that could resize tech weaponry through some very rare magi-tech device (a.k.a. Deus Ex Machina). That may be another option to explore, though expensive (at least it was in our game)

build-sketch:

Samurai (Ironbound Sword) 2/Varisian Free Style Fighter 3/Samurai 3+. Gets the class flavor in asap (Challenge, Resolve, Order), and then the level-stacking is useless until you have both Fighter.
Martial Flexibility scaling and MoMS style feat stacking.

Weapons: Wakizashi or Katana 18-20/x2. You'll want the option to have a free hand for combat maneuvers.

Feats: Power Attack, Dirty fighting. After that, you're free.

Order: Order of the Hammer: You get a free Grapple or Sunder check on every full attack, Chokehold lets you prevent spellcasters from speaking.

Perhaps there are ideas on the best options for orders for such a samurai? And style feats?

I would try something like Crane for defense (probably just Crane Style though) and Janni Style for a lot of combat maneuver options (with Order of the Hammer, you get the option of Grapple, Sunder as free action against your challenged target, and a +4 bonus on bullrush and trip with Janni Tempest). Janni Rush would also synergize well with the improved unarmed strike dmg from Order the Hammer.

VoodistMonk wrote:

DthKnell, you are correct... Fast Healer probably isn't worth it without some reason to heavily invest in Con. The premise of the build is to pretty much be unkillable, so Con is necessary, but only amounts to a few extra HP per healing.

Waitaminute, how does the Fast Healer Feat interact with say Infernal Healing or the Inquisitor's Judgement of Healing? It just says, "when you regain hit points through magical healing, you gain additional hit points. If you have Fast Healing, does that mean you are regaining hit points every round? It looks that way to me: it looks like you regain additional hp per every instance of healing, and I think each round you have Fast Healing is a separate instance.

Something else I noticed is that the prerequisites for Fast Healer are the same as the Prerequisites for Stalwart, which gives you DR instead of AC when you use Combat Expertise. Endurance lets you sleep in Medium Armor or Slumbering Full Plate. So we have a high AC, DR, and Fast Healing augmented by the Fast Healer Feat?

I think it might be worth it.

This is prestty much how it works yes, though I know there has been some debate regarding the source of Fast Healing, that is Magical or natural/extraordinary. Fast Healing would work with the former only given the wording of the Feat.

I think Fast Healer would be worth it on a PC that can focus on Con and another stat like Strenght or Dex. Spelleater Bloodrager would be a nice way of leveraging it for instance. In fact, I think a single lvl of Bloodrager with a Valet Familiar, another of Unbreakable Fighter for the prereqs then the rest into Skald going for Amplified Rage to boost your Fast Healing through the roof could be a fun build. Now if only we could get claws and scent into that mix, we would get a very interesting take on Golarion's Wolverine!

Half-Orc

Sacred Tattooes and Fate's Favored, or Ferocity, your choice.

Fey Foundling, because reasons.

Warrior Poet (4+ levels) for Resolve/Unconquerable Resolve and Weapon Finesse with fun weapons and some Charisma to AC when we're naked.

Hospitaler Paladin (8+ levels) for Charisma to saves, Mercy/Greater Mercy/Ultimate Mercy, Channel, Aura of Resolve/Ultimate Resolve, blah blah blah.

Unbreakable Fighter (1+ levels) for Endurance and Diehard, pick up Fast Healer.

Take your pick of the order in which you take the levels... maybe something like:
1. Warrior Poet Samurai
2-3. Hospitaler Paladin
4. Unbreakable Fighter
5-7. Warrior Poet Samurai
8-13. Hospitaler Paladin
14+???

1. Fey Foundling
1. Weapon Finesse
3. Combat Reflexes
4. Endurance
4. Diehard
5. Fast Healer
7. Unconquerable Resolve
9. Greater Mercy
11. Ultimate Mercy
13. Ultimate Resolve

BAB +13
Base saves +12/+3/+7

I like original Multiclass build, but I don't get the point of this build? In fact I don't get the point of Fast Healer in the build - unless you have a very high PB, this guy would be MAD as hell. It looks like it would be better to double up on Unconquerable Resolve or maybe even get Chain Challenge to regain more use of Resolve. In comparison, 1-2 more hp per healing does not looks like it's worth it.

I had an Elf Swashbuckler/Ranger/Monk/Magus that used Panther Parry and Crane Riposte to constantly be up in the enemy's grill. He would use movement to draw AoO's from the enemy, symultaneously dealing damage with Panther Parry. Negating hits/symultaneously dealing damage with Crane Riposte and Opportune Parry & Riposte. He had Dex + Wis + Int to AC. Could use Panache with his Rapier, Unarmed Strikes, and Longbow. Could use Ki in place of Panache and Arcane Pool.

That looks like a quite complex if enticing build. Could you elaborate on the build? How did this character fared until all the needed parts fell into place? I like unconventional build too, but that looks very complex to handle.

I think sneak attack does not translate as low blow or dishonorable behavior per se. When sneak attacking, one aims at weak spots on the body, something that samurai integrated into their martial arts and training.

On the other hand, I would find it harder to use Dirty Tricks as a Samurai since, well they're dirty and thus not so honorable to use.

Remember that the character in Ghost of Tsushima had to make compromise on his code of conduct to take on the Mantle of the Ghost - in his case, the end justified the means even at the cost of his honour.

Mechanically speaking, I think you could make use of the Scout Rogue archetype so you can apply sneak attack as part of a Charge. You could even combine it with Sword Saint Samurai to stack the Iaijutsu strike dmg and aim for that One Strike One Kill move samurais are notable for.

If you go the sneak attack build, I would recommend 3 levels of Makeshift Scrapper Rogue.

First focus on what you need to disarm with your first levels of Brawler (Combat Expertise/Dirty Fighting, Improved Disarm) then go for the Rogue levels to take advantage of unarmed opponents and smack them with whatever you deem appropriate. You could even walk around with an empty scabbard in which you sheath your opponent's blade and then proceed to beat the living crap out of him with his iwn sheathed sword!

Since you will be a Rogue and an adventurer, I would try to keep some mundane items made of special materials for when you fight DR protected creatures. My favourite is adamantine crowbar - that thing should almost be considered a weapon in itself! Silver cutlery also comes to mind...

If you go for Feral Hunter, you should definitely consider Planar Focus. The additional options this feat gives are golden - Bury and swim speed, natural armor, untyped bonus on stealth and defensive abilities according to your alignment. Pretty nice when you think about it.

Cool build. I'm always drawn to nimble characters so I like this one. Just foe your interest, if you have 3 or more ranks in Acrobatics (and I guess you should), your bonus to Fight Defensively is +3, +4 with Crane Style. Also, you cannot take Improved Critical at lvl 6 since you don't meet the minimum BAB requirement.

Other than that, pretty cool build!

Edit : Nevermind, I forgot about Swashbuckler's Weapon Training...

You could also go with Brutal Pugilist Barbarian and focus on grapple feats (duh!) and rage powers that support this maneuver. Look for Bruno the Handsome Grappler, he's posted some very nice grappling build over the years that don't rely on weird tentacles or illicit substances ;)

I've played one crazy multiclass character that focused on grappling and debuffing with exotic range weapons. Though you might not like to multiclass that much, I'll just point out one Feat I really like to scale maneuver bonus up : https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/arcane-discoveries/arc ane-discoveries-paizo/knowledge-is-power-ex/
All you need is a level of Wizard and then you can both your Strength and Intelligence bonus to your maneuver checks. As a dip, going wizard will also allow you to use wands and spell trigger items from the wizard spell list. You get a familiar, the aforementioned King Crab is a nice choice in this case, and a school specialty. I would go with Divination (Forsight) to always act in the surprise round and to get some extra d20 rolls when I need them.

I think Spider-Man is more about entangling and disabling opponents than about grappling them, at least not in the usual way we think of grappling. Unless you use Elephant in the Room Feat rules, you won't be able to perform that many maneuvers effectively. I would stick to Dirty Tricks and maybe grapple or trip as a secondary maneuver.

I know a lot of people think that Spidey should never be surprised but when you look at his spider senses, they don't always allow him to avoid ambushes. In fact sometimes the senses tingles just a second befor he gets hit. IMO, the spidey senses can easily be emulated with a very high Perception skill bonus and Uncanny Dodge. The swashbucklers dodging panache could also work to emulate Spidey's senses guiding him out of harm's way. The Okayo Corsair archetype can use panache and is proficient with the monk weapon group, which includes unarmed strike.

Just some ideas to help you brainstorm on how to tackle this elusive character.

Erastil's Blessing lets you use Wisdom instead of Dex modifier for range attacks with a longbow. You need Weapon Focus as a prereq. I'm playing a Hinterlander PRC in Iron Gods right now and it can be really good especially against Favored Ennemies. When not facing those, I tend to step back a bit and use my spells for utility, buff, etc. I'm not too savvy with Cleric spells so I'm still learning what should be on my list and what shouldn't.

Anyway, it can be fun but I strongly suggests either Hinterlander and/or Ranger lvls for quicker access to the archery Feats and to dispense yourself from Point Blank Shot.

Yeah with those stats I think I would focus more on being Tanky than a DPR machine. Go with weapon and shield style and work in tandem with the rogue to enable his sneak attack. I guess you won't be going very far in your lvls so get your Constitution high enough to alliw you to Tank. The rest is up to you and your mates.

Can't take Precise Shot without Point Blank Shot. But it looks like you did not account for the 1st lvl feat so, all good.

Quite frankly, the only reason I would suggest dipping into ranger before getting into Hinterlander is so you can stack the bonus for one Favored Ennemy. If you skip this class feature, don't bother with the dip and stay full warpriest until you're ready to get into the prestige class.

I'm playing a Ranger2/Cleric3/Hinterlander5 at the moment. We play Iron Gods AP and my role is that of spell support/buff/control, unless we face Robots (construct) or Abberations where my Favored Ennemy bonus kicks up my archery to over 9000. For a Warpriest based character like yours, 3 lvls of Hinterlander should be enough to get you the critical feats (Rapid and manyshots). The rest will come from your swift action buffs and sacred weapon feature.
So basically what I'm saying is, if you know the creature types you will encounter most often, ditch Freebooter and keep Favored ennemy to rack up the static bonus. Oh and get your hands on Bracers of Falcon's Aim - they give bonus to everything you're trying to achieve with this character.

You could put spikes on your weapon's pommel or haft. Take some damage while you draw, d3 or d4 probably.

Actually, Weapon Master qualifies as soon as level 4 and can select AWT as a bonus feat without it counting as the maximum allowance fighters usually have for this feat. It's one of the reasons I suggested Weapon Master.

I guess OP could also dip one level of Warrior Poet for Weapon Finesse (Katana) and then continue the rest of his career as a fighter.

You could multiclass samurai and weapon master fighter to get early access to weapon training and advanced weapon training feat (effortless dual wield is what you are aiming for). This will leave you with 8-9 lvls of samurai and 3-4 lvls of fighter.

Note that Warrior Poet only applies his lvl on damage to his challenged target on the first attack, not all od them. This is somewhat balanced by the fact that you can add half your lvl on damage if you apply your Dex bonus to hit and Str bonus to damage. Not as devastating as full lvl but it works all the time. Combined with weapon training, this can lead to significant static bonus.

If you can blind your target reliably, then it could be quite effective. Blind the target on the first round, then Focus fire with all you got the next round. Hide when you're done if it's still alive and strike with another sneak attack on the third round. This could be done on a lvl 7-8 character I guess, with clever multiclassing.

Yeah that prestige class is pretty much Hulk for Pathfinder. That or Venom... if you choose your Discoveries and Extracts carefully it fits quite well actually.

Order of the Penitent also vow nit to kill wrong doers and do all they can to bring them to justice unless there is no other way. That fits Spidey's way of doing things. On top of that, the Constable archetype meshes really well with an unarmed and grapple theme.

Edit : Wildsoul Archetype is not that great. I would stick to normal Vigilante and select the Rooftop Infiltrator Talent a 2nd lvl.

@I am Nemesis : you really should try coming up with something on your own, or at least link to the original article. Neal's build are nice but they are quite old. There are tons of new feats, class abilities and spells that have been published since he posted this article.

Heather 540 wrote:

Spidey's going to be MAD as heck, isn't he? The only stat I can drop is Cha. He's got both super strength and super agility so I really can't drop either Dex or Str. He's also very smart, so that's Int there, and can't really drop Wis because a Monk needs it for AC. Ooh boy.

You do know that Spiderman is better known for his taunts and quips than his strength, right? A proper Spiderman build should have a high charisma.

About the only stat you can dump on Spiderman is wisdom. Peter Parker has done a lot of things he regrets later. Though his perception should be quite high. And he does learn from his mistakes so...maybe not a low wis either.

Most of Spiderman can be explained by giving him Boots of Striding and Leaping, and a set of gloves with Spider Climb. The actual web slinging is tougher. Wind Jump (monk ability) acts like web slinging, but a magic item that lets him do that plus web bolt several times per day would be better.

Using bruised intellect would allow Spiderman to bluff or intimidate using his Int score instead of Cha. With Empiricist levels, this would allow Cha and Wis to be kept low.

When converting superheroes to pathfinder, I always try to find an equivalent ability to the superpowers the character should have since it should not have to rely too much on specific items.

Looking back at it, if I was to make this character here's how I would split his levels: Vigilante 2 (avanger for the BAB)/Flowing Monk 5/ Investigator 5+. Stats array should be Dex>Int>Str=Con,Wis,Cha. With Flowing Monk archetype, a high Wis score is a little less important since you can get several ways to dodge incoming attacks with class abilities and feat choices.

A monk needs Wis to AC. Spidey can manage with a very high Dex and a spidersilk suit or something like that. Enchanted off course.

That being said, Str and Dex will be your top priority indeed. Thing is though, Spidey never punch through anyone even though he technically got the strength to do it. Maybe find a way to get a permanent Ant Haul so you can lift very heavy but keep a reasonnable Str score.

For a spiderman build, you could base around something like this :

2 lvls of Vigilante to get the Roof climber Talent. This takes care of the wall crawler part.

X lvls of Flowing Monk will give you the freakish reflexes of Spidey, unarmed strike, all your jumping needs and a way to reposition/trip your attackers before they get to you.

Web can be replicated using alchemical items like spidersacs and tanglefoot bags.

I guess a case could probably be made for Investigator too - Peter Parker is a reporter/photographer and scientist after all, it would make sense to give him levels in an Intelligence based class. Empiricist woukd be great. Off course, Mutagen, alchemy and studied combat will all be welcome addition to such a character.

I would suggest going for Divine obedience - Falayna instead. Same bonus, no item reliance though you still get constrict from Anaconda's Coils if you buy it. You would need to change the other feats from FE chain but I think there is a lot of options here.

I'm actually contemplating a grapple build too. I'd like to take advantage of the Knowledge is Power Discovery to add to stats to grapple checks. It's a more complicated build but I like multiclassing...

I played a great sword and bow switch hitter in RoftRL and it was a blast! Archery really is the back-up style or a way to draw enemies to you so you can squash them in melee. I would suggest Furious Focus and Vital Strike chain for your feat selection, especially if you ride your AC around the battlefield. Greatsword would be best IMO.

Instant Ennemy and Gravity Bow/Lead Blade are nice buffs when you got time to cast before a fight. I discovered Bloodhound too, combined with pheromone arrows it gives a nice boost to your DPR. Works for the big cat too!

If you go with Vital Strike, some levels of barbarian could be nice along with Furious Finish.

Those are nice builds. I think OP could also check this page for some more cool build ideas : http://taking10.blogspot.com/p/character-conversions.html?m=1

It has not been updated for a while but there are some pretty good ideas there as I am Nemesis found out.

I don't have the full build with me but I've been working on a ratfolk martial build with a white haired witch dip to get intelligence based grapple. I'm not yet set on the full builf yet, but grappling a foe without being grappled yourself is quite fun.

I'm also considering a single lvl dip into wizard to add Intelligence to CMB thanks to the Knowledge is Power Discovery. 1 lvl for a +2 on Will saves, access to wizard spells as wands, a couple of first lvl spells like Enlarge Person or True Strike and a Wizard School Power can all help boost a maneuver focused chracter.

Looks like Meirril is right. I guess you can cast Divine Favor for normal and less challenging encounters and then cast Blood Scent for tougher challenges. The bonus won't be as high as Divine Favor, not in the first round at least unless you use bleeding arrows, but it will affect the whole party.

I'm getting drawn to the caster archer more and more. I'm a bit thorn between Hunter and Inquisitor though. I'd like to use a hornbow and Hunter makes this easier for a Half-Orc character. Inquisitor has some nifty trick up his sleeves though, especially regarding action economy. Both are better than Warpriest IMO for their utility out of combat.

I don't see precise shot in there. Even though the bonuses are very high at the build's end, if you play that character from lvl one, won't he struggles to land his shots when the rest of the party gets stuck in?

I'm playing a Sor/Pal/DD build in Iron Gods and she's quite fun to play. We're evel 4 at the moment so still early to say if it will be good on all tier, but so far I can contribute well in fights with Enlarge Person, Shocking Grasp and my thrusty Spear - that thing must be sharp as hell cause I hit most of the time with it and managed to crit three times already!

I took Magical Knack as one of my two traits yes, this should help with the multiclassing.

@ShroudedInLight - that's a great build. If my party wasn't already well furnished in tanking characters, I would probably go for something like that.

At the moment though, I can see two problems with the build.

- Unchained Monk : we don't use unchained, so if I take levels in monk, it will be chained version.

- Spellcasting : level 2 spells don't come before character level 10 on this build. This is way too far from what I was aiming for.

Oh now that I think of it, I have another issue with the build - claws. I should get around 10-11 rounds per day of claws. It seems quite short (shorter than rage + extra rage aat least) to base a build around don't you think?

Yeah, I'm aware of it and I'm considering it. Still, it is 2+ feats, so it can be taxing if I take more than 4 levels of DD. This is also why I wanted to limit my dips to two lvl, either Paladin 2 or Bloodrager1/Sacred Fist 1.

@Scrapper - Fey foundling is better on a full Paladin build. Even then, my character is already in play and this feat need to be taken at lvl1.

@Mysterious Stranger - Paladin would definitely boost the character's survivability and the Cha bonus to AC and hit one time per day can be quite good too.

Sorry I should have been more specific.

This not for PFS. No 3rd party allowed and we don't use unchained nor VMC.

Hi there! I'm playing a half-orc sorcerer and was planning to get into DD, mainly for the coolness factor of slowly turning into a dragon. I like to build characters that can hold their own in fights as well as contribute outside of them.

Now I'm contemplating adding some other class features to my build but I'm unsure what would be best :

-Paladin for smite and charisma to saves;
-Bloodrager for rage and double draconic bloodline powers from DD lvl;
Scaled Fist Monk for Cha to Access, saves boost and an extra feat.

I don't want to gimp my spellcasting too much either so here I am, seeking your advices.

The Makeshift Scrapper Rogue archetype could help kickstart your build. It trades trapfinding for Catch off guard and Throw anything, then trap sense at third lvl for the ability to enhance an improvised weapon as a +1 weapon or shiel for a number of rounds equal to your Rogue lvl.

Once you get that, you can lvl in other class(es) depending on what you intend to do. I like the disarm build, especially if you are going up against a lot of humanoid opponents. Otherwise, you can fill the skillmonkey role easily and carry an adamantine crowbar to pry doors open and mithral/cold iron shovel to smash face when needed.

I like that one, quite fitting in fact. I can't bring myself to build Deadpool with a wisdom based class like the warpriest. The mutation warrior is a nice fit and gives enough feat to make the character as close to the original as possible I guess.

I tried Alex Agunas build in Mummy's Mask and though it was funny to play a trash talker like Wade, the character was seriously weak. The regeneration stances do not heal you nearly fast enough to compensate for low AC and trying to TWF effectively was too much of a tax on my strength to work.

IMO, a better build would probably look like Bloodrager X with one lvl of Unbreakable Fighter to speed up Fast Healer, 2 lvl of Slayer to get TWF and then forget about ITWF until you can meet the pre-req, if ever. Stats should be :
Con>Str=Dex>Cha>Int>Wis

Raging Vitality and Antagonize are a must, on for practical reasons the other for fluff reasons.

With Con 22 while raging at Bloodrager 4/Unbreakable Fighter 1/Slayer 2, you're looking at Fast Healing 5 while raging. Not bad and this will heal your actual hp instead of temporary ones.

Greater Bull Rush and Sliding Dash seem to be made for each other. Slide through their square, bash them back towards your friends.

Yeah, if only Sliding Dash wasn't so damn hard to succeed. I mean, 10+CMD can get very high, very quickly. I don't think this trick will work very often against BBEG.

I've worked out a Grappling feature that could fit into any of a lot of characters that can be quite devastating.

Colour me interested. I've always like grappling as a way to control the battlefield, even if I used to do it with black tentacles more then with my melee build...

Yes! Welcome back! If memory serves, the next on the list should be Punisher... and this should be awesome!

Cheers!

The Player herself would be an interesting choice. Most of us have a vast knowledge of the world/setting we play in. This includes the cities, people who live in them, magic, monsters but even more - we know their strenghts and weaknesses, their favorite tactics and how to foil them. I think if a player was to be thrown to Golarion and forced to live as an adventurer, I think he'd become a party leader.

Oh and for the record, I think a lot of us are probably Experts more than Commoners, if just because of how RL skill Learning works.

Nice concept Will.Spencer

Could be done with a three-bladed Katar though.

SNIKT! Indeed...

Well, I for one enjoyed reading your builds. Good job! Continue sharing if you're still plagued by sleepless nights.

That's a cool idea for a character, that way you're not trapped in the Ronin Order to justify why you have no master to get back to.

I think the Samurai can be effective if you play the Challenge part right, so definitely pay attention to what you want your samurai to achieve when you choose your order. Sadly, I think Iaijutsu is not that reliable - even less so than sneak attacks! I tend to look at Sword Saint as way to get rid of the Horse deal because I don't like mounts that much...

That being said, I think you have your combat tactic worked backward. I would start the fight with the Nodachi in hand and set it up against a charge, then in the next round drop it as a free action, draw your katana as move (or free when you hit lvl 3) and Iaijutsu strike the bad guy. That's two attacks with a lot of damage potential. You can then focus your feats and ressources on piling on as much dmg as you can into single attacks (PA, Vital Strike feat tree, Wpn specialization, etc.) along with being as tough as you can.

As an aside, it could be interesting to add a couple lvl of barbarian for Rage and Furious Finish. You can do it more than once in a fight considering you can negate the Fatigue effect with Resolve.

If you only need a bonus feat, why not go with Brawler? You get a little bit less skills, but two bonus feats (Improved Unarmed Strike and any other combat feat), Martial Flexbility and Brawler's flurry. Or skip Martial Flexibility and take Snakebite striker to get an extra sneak attack die.

I like this build, it feels different than the usual brawny rogue type. Well thought out, if I was starting a new Pathfinder game soon, I think I'd give it a try (though with a chained version of the rogue, probably bandit so I can move AND take advantage of Cleave in a surprise round).